Prove My Point

[The Overfiend]

http://mp3.juno.co.uk/MP3/SF27995-01-01-01.mp3
Basoski1997

http://mp3.juno.co.uk/MP3/SF107569-01-04-01.mp3
Beltram2002

That's whassup.

[xfive]

No comment. :shock:

[ds2]

http://www.discogs.com/release/6695

the beginning of the end...


last time beltram played in leeds i walked out in disgust an hour into his set. apparently no one informed the orbit he'd turned into eric morillo either. they weren't best pleased by all accounts and he was never asked back.

[ncw]

STX 1 is OK. I mean, its a bit shit, but its not as bad as the f*cking shapeshifters shite he cacks out now.

WHAT HAPPENED? Places is one of the greatest techno records. Why Joey? Why?

[Internal Error Records]

i dont follow beltram.

did he fall off or something?

[Frank Dogshit]

cant say i follow beltram too much myself but i love some of the tracks on the rising sun ep and that remix he did of the player records is one of my favourite tracks from last year.

that looks pretty sad though what hes up to there!

[fitipaldi]

aye, the stx tunes are shite but the player remix and his new album are pretty good.

[Frank Dogshit]

just give all them crap tunes to Umek.....sure he'll find some use for them! :doh: :lol:

[oldbugger]

love it... love joey beltram...love the tracks :lol:


thats him all over lately too. its nothing new hes been doing that for years now.

arnt people allowed to change or something? :evil:

[ds2]

STX 1 is OK. I mean, its a bit shit,


true but it certainly started a BIG change in direction for him.

places is still one of my all timers.

[slavestudios]

hes been listening to WAY too many Player & Ignition Technician records imo :lol:


to think he gave us Metro & Ballpark & Forklift..

[xfive]

I think you've all missed the point of this post.

[xfive]

:lol: :lol:

[slavestudios]

which is :eh:

[MangaFish]

that joeys new sound is 5 years out of date? :?: :eh:

[Internal Error Records]

I think you've all missed the point of this post.

*raises hand*

yeaha im clueless.

are we saying beltram is awsome or sucks? lol

[gary_human]

. . . all we need is the original disco sample which "they both" sampled ;) - sorry "artistically covered" - brings back my faith which says "I can" be a producer. Reminds me of the game breaks for the beats (or whatever it was called) that Westwood used to play back in the day, only he would play the original sample and you'd have to name the track that sampled the orignal break. Only I wouldn't have a clue of these two - bring on the orignal.

I love sampling me - recycled loops ;)

[slavestudios]

but this beltram-disco is not that new.

i got STX1 over 4 years ago.. maybe even more.

hes been doing this style of house/techno party guff for a good while now.

so what are we missing ?

[ncw]

that joeys new sound is 5 years out of date? :?: :eh:

More like 35 years, as he's sampling records that sampled disco records, innit?
;)

[ncw]

I love sampling me - recycled loops ;)

Me too, and I think I might come across as very "anti sampling" on here.

But sampling tired old disco records? use your imagination for ****s sake.

[gary_human]

that joeys new sound is 5 years out of date? :?: :eh:

More like 35 years, as he's sampling records that sampled disco records, innit?
;)

lol

anyone got the orignal disco tune - Im sure that cause more "dancefloor detonation" than these? bet its harder to mix aswell ;)

[xfive]

heh yeah... we all know's he's gone down the shitter.. all I was sayin was that he had sampled the exact thing that had been done years before.. and its not like Basovski's track was only heard by a couple people... :lol:

He should stick to analog gear :lol:

[gary_human]

But sampling tired old disco records? use your imagination for **** sake.

yeah come on . . . if your gonna sample a disco record ? Make it a GOOD one? ;) something like Leo Sayer or whatever :lol: bring that mo fo back!!!

[dirty_bass]

Blatant rip off alert!!!

Why revive disco? the old corpse has been dug up so many times, even the CSI guys feel sick when they see it, and I heard grisham say.
"Put that one back in the ground, some things are best left in peace"

[ncw]

Blatant rip off alert!!!

Why revive disco? the old corpse has been dug up so many times, even the CSI guys feel sick when they see it, and I heard grisham say.
"Put that one back in the ground, some things are best left in peace"

I disagree. GOOD disco should be revived, rather than ten a penny cackathons.

[dirty_bass]

Techno is about the future.
The whole music industry is obsessed with regurgitation, as it is a less risky way of releasing music.
I prefer look forwards, rather than backwards.

[slavestudios]

sometimes i believe you must look back to go forward, but just recycling the same shit is pointless..

[xfive]

Everything has it's time man.. diggin up disco does not help with progression.

In 5-10 years we will all look back and see that the tunes we put out right now are just as easily dispoable.

At least they (were hopefully) fresh at the time.

;)

[slavestudios]

i think everyone on this thread is agreed..

Beltrams gone wank & samplin the same ol' same ol' is bad for the music


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Komplex]

Hahah. I just listened to them both.

How amateur can one get. My 8 year old cousin could have dumped that same disco loop in "acid" and done the same thing 10 times better. Why are people so stupid?

What is Beltram thinking.

[Joseph Isaac]

Metro, Forklift, Ballpark...Then Joey needed money.

[oldbugger]

Techno is about the future.
The whole music industry is obsessed with regurgitation, as it is a less risky way of releasing music.


why is it? surely techno is about whatever we want it to be and whatever the producer wants too. and not about following the sheep.

that comment in itself goes against what techno is about IMO

[dirty_bass]

well in that case how about some 20`s cha cha techno.
or the twist by chubby checker and joey beltram.
Or how about some elizabethan harpsichord techno. "Shall we dine at the summer palace tonight darling albert?"

Wev`e had the 60`s revival, the 70`s revival, the 80`s revival, and the feckin 90`s revival. Then it went 70`s again.
Jeeeeez, are people affraid of the future or what? or have they just run out of ideas?

Learn from the past
Don`t repeat it.

[oldbugger]

i'm not saying i dissagree, I'm saying that to say a comment like "techno is about this" or techno is about that" goes against everything it should be. surely its about whatever we want.

if joey likes to mess with old disco tunes thats fine, he obviously likes it, along with thousands of other people, no harm done.

the word 'elitist' springs to mins :dontevengothere:

[oldbugger]

mind* :doh:

[dirty_bass]

not elitist, just fed up with regurgitation culture in the media as a whole.
the italian job in LA?
a remake of get carter with silvester stallone.

Leave it be.

Too may people making excuses for people past their prime as well.
Joey isn`t on the edge any more.

I mean, Carl Lewis isn`t still trying to run in the olympics right?
And we all know the rolling stones aren`t what they were. A bunch of animated corpses playing songs they`ve played so many times, they can do it whilst having a triple bi-pass. Oh the excitement.

Is techno any different? Just cos beltram was a founder, doesn`t mean he can`t be crap now.

thousands of people go to see britney spears..............

[anx]

hey joey isnt complete crap right now tho, he's still making some wicked shit

sure that tune is crap, but i wouldnt go so far as to say he's sold out completly or anything...

[anx]

Wev`e had the 60`s revival, the 70`s revival, the 80`s revival, and the feckin 90`s revival. Then it went 70`s again.
Jeeeeez, are people affraid of the future or what?

well, how exactly are you supposed to sample from the future?

sorry im drunk and being an arse hehe

[koma]

I dont see techno as a futuristic music, I mean, I live now, not in the future.. as in any other genre, real producers express their emotions through it.. love, hate, depression.. or need for money :lol:

yes, maybe disco is dead, but I know people who will say electro & acid are dead in a way, cause most of that sound is already heard, so why is still heavy milking of that sound going on?

I can compare this stuff thats Joey's doing with Marc Acardipane.. the guy put out We have arrived, which is like first real Hardcore record..he's known for his PCP and many other projects (lots of monikers used, more than 30 I think :doh: ), but maybe 20-30% of hardcore fans knew for him.. then, few years back Marc decided enough is enough, he needed money and wanted respect that others took for him, so he's doing poor hardstyle now.. and colaborating with Scooter (!)..

[xfive]

well in that case how about some 20`s cha cha techno.
or the twist by chubby checker and joey beltram.


bahahahahahaha
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[professor]

haven't we been over this issue? seems to me this is the same tired conversation that's been had many times already.

I thought the thread was about how easy it is to generate generic beats and make money...so long as you already have a name...and distribution.

[dirty_bass]

It`s all part of the point though.

[professor]

best thing to do is make the music you like, and that you feel at the moment. AND at the same time push yourself to break whatever mold you create for yourself (seems like this can be a simple as limiting or changing production methods from track to track...write the melody first...only use one synth for the whole shibang). If you keep coming up with tires ass disco loops and only changing the off beat sample...then I got noth'n for ya...

[professor]

"tired ass"

[oldbugger]

you say "its all about the future" etc

how the **** can that happen? surely if your making techno its a style that has been tried and tested..ok you can have new sounds and stuff but jeesus theres nothing new about techno anymore.

if you really believe in the future go invent some new style if it pisses you off so much.

joey still makes quality records but wouldnt it be better to just say its not you thing. he's a legend and still knows what makes me feel good after all this time.

respect to Mr Beltram is well and truely deserved.

[Evil G]

i don't know man. i'm not usually one to judge others, but i downloaded a mix of beltram's recently and the mixing was absolutely terrible. decent tracks, but trainwreck after trainwreck. i don't know if it was maybe some wanker passing himself off as beltram, or he was drunk, or what. how to you forget how to mix after doing it for so many years?

listening to this cheezy disco loop makes me think he's given up the spirit and is resting on his laurels. :nono:

[oldbugger]

yeah i have heard some awful dj sets from him too.
but i wasnt talking about that. purely his music

[primevil]

cant say i'm a fan of much of his new stuff, coz it is kinda samey. but hands down, a tune is a tune, the his remix of player 8 was and still is amazing! pure energy and rocks it everytime!

[romelpotter]

yeah i have heard some awful dj sets from him too.
but i wasnt talking about that. purely his music

yea but i have herd some amazing sets from him. 1997.. vodoo @ clear..****in blew me away..not litrally though :dontevengothere: :lol: :lol:

Yea his new sound has prob been done to death but there are some great tracks on the rising sun, and there is no getting over what he has done in the past. people foget Joe t vannelli play with the voice in the usa remix. if you listen to the orig, what he did to that is amazing. what about a bit of dominator anyone !!!

Mills, beltram, to a point cox.. all the pioneers of techno/old hardcore have change styles, moved on in some way. Could you pump out the same stuff for 15 years and not feel slightly rutted.

music is about freedom, freedom to do what you want. if you don't like it, dont buy it. if you do..then do buy it. crack open the 19 inch bells..don the largest medallion you can find and its night fevour all the way home :lol: :lol:

[neko]

music is about freedom, freedom to do what you want. if you don't like it, dont buy it. if you do..then do buy it.

spot on that romelpotter :clap:

way too many chinstrokers sat moaning about music they don't like these days :roll:

[Joseph Isaac]

I mean, Carl Lewis isn`t still trying to run in the olympics right?
And we all know the rolling stones aren`t what they were. A bunch of animated corpses playing songs they`ve played so many times, they can do it whilst having a triple bi-pass. Oh the excitement.

Is techno any different? Just cos beltram was a founder, doesn`t mean he can`t be crap now.




Excellent point, DB.

[oldbugger]

not at all....

carl lewis is not competitive enough to still compete with athletes his own age.

joey beltram still pisses all over many younger competitors. theres a world of difference.

age is not really an issue when it comes to producing or dj'ing at all. infact its probarbly an advantage IMO

where as carl lewis is ****ed in his profession.. simple

[dirty_bass]

An old dog with no new tricks?
Shouldn`t he have moved on by now?
Something a bit more complex, I dunno, just a progression of some kind?
Doing basically the same thing for his whole musical career, you might as well be a company man, pen, corner office, pension and
All these old tools in the tool shed are seeming alittle blunt to me.
I mean, no wonder the kids aren`t getting into dance music any more. It`s still full of oldies banging on about the early warehouse days and playing old "classics" that were out before they were born. How can they relate to that?
Beltram to, me, is the oakenfold of techno.
Had enough now thanks. Get that man a tie for christmas.

[The Divide]

Ballpark and Forklift had a huge influence on me in my younger days

On the subject of change – for me I wish there were more people writing techno like those tracks now (forklift, Bpark). Sound design using synths always sound futuristic whilst un-manipulated drums samples and loops sound outdated.

Im happy to see a revival of anything providing its done right and has its own personality. That’s something I don’t hear in these two tracks however.

But then I am not a huge fan of the funky sound so I am a bit biased.

[The Overfiend]

Forklift is one of the illest tracks out there period!
Hence the disappointment.....

[The Divide]

It`s still full of oldies banging on about the early warehouse days and playing old "classics" that were out before they were born. How can they relate to that?
Beltram to, me, is the oakenfold of techno.

Oldies banging on about this and that not been good enough, that sound is crap. This is the death of techno, thats bringing techno down isnt exactly doing any good tho is it? You old victor meldrew :lol:

What ever happened to live and let live, its not as if Beltrams new sound is flooding us out.

Old classics get cained and caned again in the commercial market, look at the beatles, elvis and the likes all the rest of the crap thats polluting the airwaves. Kids seem to think they can relate that that shit

One of the things I loved about the underground was how it raised its middle finger to all things commercial. That united on that front with or without drugs. Yet all we seem to do these days is look for excuses to hunt each other down instead of doing the things we believe to be the way forward.

Not aimed at you as such just adding my thoughts on this me old victor

:lol:

[Mindful]

Waffle coming up

Not sure about this topic JB is a class producer done loads of great stuff on Tresor and I like the disco sound hes been doing...Its my guess that he likes doing this sort of stuff and its down to him as an artist to freely make whatever he wants surley....If you dont like it dont buy it and dont let it affect you.
BUT........
My preference tends to be the more future thinking Techno..Thats what I look for when making and buying music And to me Its a shame that JB has decided to stick with this sound for so long cause to be honest he does just keep redoing the same thing.
As I say Its a shame because I would like to see him aplying himself to something fresh as he is a class Techno producer.

P.S.I have not heard the clips yet as Im watcing E.T. :eh:

[dirty_bass]

I DON`T BELIEEEEEEEEEVE IT!!!!!!!!

[The Divide]

:lol: