Live PA's methods

[AcidTrash]

I have 2 options. Option 1 allows me to get EXACTLY what I wanty accross but doesn't require me doing that much. Option 2 is much more live but is VERY prone to f*cking up in unpleasant ways. What would you go for?

[alsynthe]

i think aslong as u get the disired effect to show off ur productions u want its doesnt matter

[TechMouse]

Probably start off doing 1, and then slowly introduce elements of 2, as you become more confident?

Any possibility of some specifics, or is it hush hush?

I'd love to do live PAs.

[paulcortex]

when i first started playing live i used to use my pc running sonic foundry vegas to play the full audio file of each track that id wrote in orion...each wav file would then be arranged into a set with all the edits, fades, twiddly bits pre programed...this left me to play my synths or trigger samples over the top...with a little dj style eqing it didnt sound bad...and was pretty fail safe, but now i use a pc with a tascam u122 external usb card and cubase vst midi synced up to my korg esx1 sampler(which i use for drums....with the hi and low parts seperated and eqed through my mackie mixer) then cubase is used to put the set together using vstis (Audiorealism bassline :cool: (top 303's!!!),junox,minimoog,arp,slayer etc) and other plugins...i have an oxy8 midi controller for playing riffs on and i have no problems using this set up...unless the pc decides to be a bugger and crash of course!!!
...touch tonnes of wood that this doesnt happen!!!! :nono:

[massplanck]

option two.

hands down.

[slavestudios]

I have 2 options. Option 1 allows me to get EXACTLY what I wanty accross but doesn't require me doing that much. Option 2 is much more live but is VERY prone to f*cking up in unpleasant ways. What would you go for?




take the chance.. if you dont have any room for error you may as well press play on a cd & have a w**k imo

[TechMouse]

take the chance.. if you dont have any room for error you may as well press play on a cd & have a w**k imo
Not without it's charm...

+ an excellent floor show, some might say...

[professor]

option 2. take a bag of records for if sh-t goes way south.

[Larney]

Definitely option 1. I would be pretty pissed off if I paid money to hear a great set and it ended up a shambles. Always remember people pay their hard earned money and they deserve a good show!

[slavestudios]

take the chance.. if you dont have any room for error you may as well press play on a cd & have a w**k imo
Not without it's charm...

+ an excellent floor show, some might say...


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

excellent retort lol

[slavestudios]

Definitely option 1. I would be pretty pissed off if I paid money to hear a great set and it ended up a shambles. Always remember people pay their hard earned money and they deserve a good show!

they also deserve someone workin & pushing themselves.

i'll happily forgive a few mistakes if someone is workin hard & pushing it to the edge

[FIK]

Option 2 I'd say. Look at a guitar player: he has to study his chords and parts in order to bring it live. If you rehearse it well, it shouldn't be a problem

[RDR]

of course the answer is to do both, as long as they work together.

you can always use ableton to remiz full trax. there is always another way of working.

show satisfaction and stability = 100%
Ad libbing and audience recation capabilty = 100%

those are the figures you want.

total control gives you all of that. work with the knowledge you can do anything with anything and nothing is sacred, but somethings are essentail.

[acidsaturation]

Option 2.

You know my set up pete - MC303 playing the drums on my Akai sampler and 2 synths (hardly use it's own sounds at all) with Korg ES-1 and EA-1 sync'ed to it and 4 or 8 bar patterns on each that I can mix between.

I used to sequence whole tracks on the 303 and the korgs and just twiddle knobs and drop samples and it was a) less fun, and b) I was actually more prone to cockups 'cos I lost concentration from doing less.

The advantage of how I do it now is that If I do cock up and miss something I can just carry on for another 8 or 16 bars and do it again. Before If I missed a cue it could throw the whole track out.

[anode]

assuming...

option 1 = computer software setup - more prone to crashes and boring check ya email styles...

option 2 = well'ardware setup - twiddlin' solid keep ya busy on the fly fun!

;)

[acidchild]

Perhaps a deeper explanation of said methods would help. Here's how i do it:

Everything is pattern based. All my shit has it's own sequencer, and for the rack modules, i use an MMT-8. Here is a list of what i have how it's used...

TB-303 (duh)
TR-505 (sequences the Drum Station)
Novation Drum Station (808/909 sounds)
Emu ESI-2000 sampler (various drum/vocal samples, and loops)
Alesis MMT-8 (sequences the sampler and sometimes the D.S.)
Korg ER-1mkII (other drum sounds and various zips zaps and fwips)

I write everything down ahead of time. What patterns on each piece go with each other, what waveform the 303 uses, if the pattern is tuned up or down. What sounds in the sampler are assigned to each track on the MMT-8, etc. This works wonders and there's really no chance of a fuk up cause no computers are involved. Also, when i had a 707, i almost always kept that in write mode to change it up on the fly.

[eyes without a face]

no 2 method for me, i dont dig all these ableton "live" pa's everyones suddenly knocking out

[JohnnySideways]

ableton seems to be the best option for ya pete ;)
playin off tractor etc isnt really any more live than a dj set...if people are payin to see a 'live pa' they deserve to have a live pa...
the other side of it i suppose is most punters dont know the diference so why bother?...but you got your own self respect to consider...
mistakes are what makes it live..(or part of it anyway!)
in my experience ya get maximum respect from people when things go a little bit wrong :oops: ...then ya get it sorted :cool: ...n everyones with ya :clap: coz they can relate..and they KNOW its live then!
one last point..
when doin it live you can actually respond to the crowd better and judge the changes and subtleties of the set according to the vibe and reaction at the time.. :cool:

[Mac the Blade]

I read in an interview with K90 that his live PAs are always prerecorded onto DAT. When he starts playing his live set he'll also start the DAT running. That way, if the live stuff goes pear shaped he can fade in the DAT and let the prerecorded set take over. Sounds like a good failsafe to me.

[TechMouse]

I read in an interview with K90 that his live PAs are always prerecorded onto DAT. When he starts playing his live set he'll also start the DAT running. That way, if the live stuff goes pear shaped he can fade in the DAT and let the prerecorded set take over. Sounds like a good failsafe to me.
Interesting point.

When you go to see an acrobat, do you care if they have a safety net?

[oldbugger]

far too many bullshit supposedly 'live' sets at the moment. its gone stupid.

90% of these should be called 'digital dj sets'

[Komplex]

far too many bullshit supposedly 'live' sets at the moment. its gone stupid.

90% of these should be called 'digital dj sets'

I tend to agree.

Although the massive problem lies with the definition of what is live, what isn't and where you draw the blurry line.

From my own perspective and experience, live is when if you do nothing, nothing happens. When you do something, sound changes. Thats basically the concept of it all, how you work it is up to you.

Anything remotely techno will never be 100% live either...

[Starfuqer]

i find live pa sets less dynamic , improvised and alot more monotone than a dj set. I don't see the point of it all. Anyways continue.

[nova]

I read in an interview with K90 that his live PAs are always prerecorded onto DAT. When he starts playing his live set he'll also start the DAT running. That way, if the live stuff goes pear shaped he can fade in the DAT and let the prerecorded set take over. Sounds like a good failsafe to me.


yeah & that hes never had ta use it tho but is sync'd to hes live

[eyes without a face]

I read in an interview with K90 that his live PAs are always prerecorded onto DAT. When he starts playing his live set he'll also start the DAT running. That way, if the live stuff goes pear shaped he can fade in the DAT and let the prerecorded set take over. Sounds like a good failsafe to me.

yeah right, sounds to me like he's just making excuses for when he just lets the DAT run thru to me

if something goes wrong to the point were u cant carry on then any crowd with their head's screwed on understand that its not ur fault surely? and if they dont then just throw a synth at them and walk off haha

these "live pa's" people are knocking out are not Live sets, they are simply a mixture of their own tracks that they've mixed in Ableton, and half the time with no real flow or dexterity to the sets or music.... there are however some who do it extremely well with alot of interactions, fresh elements dropped in along the way etc etc, but its still not live in the sense of playing the instruments, playing the sampler, playing the keyboard, playing the drum machine

thats live to me and i wont be budged on it, someone mixing their own music in ableton is not live, the only thing live about it is in the software name ffs

[TechMouse]

these "live pa's" people are knocking out are not Live sets, they are simply a mixture of their own tracks that they've mixed in Ableton, and half the time with no real flow or dexterity to the sets or music.... there are however some who do it extremely well with alot of interactions, fresh elements dropped in along the way etc etc, but its still not live in the sense of playing the instruments, playing the sampler, playing the keyboard, playing the drum machine
If they've got Ableton 4 (or later) then you can use a VST drum machine / synth / sampler etc. - and mix in whole tracks of audio too, e.g. acapellas, atmospheres and so on.

How is this different from using an actual drum machine / synth / sampler?

You still program patterns and trigger them in sequence, doing controller stuff over the top. I don't see how you can say one is any less or more live than the other.

[eyes without a face]

yeah i know i have Ableton 4 here, i wasnt saying that u cant do it, i was saying that the sets i hear mainly on here are not doing this, and thats not something that can be argued really as you only have to listen to the sets to figure out whats going on

if someone is actually triggering the VST synth/software from a keyboard i agree this is live, i do this myself, and if someone is doing a whole set where they and maybe someone else are playing a number of triggers/keyboards and recording this, in the actual live manner then i love all that, i actually encourage that

but people letting ableton mix their own tracks into a 50min or so set and calling it a "live PA"... no, i dont encourage that... i could do one of them today and call it a live set but i dont want to, if i go live im waiting to the point were i can actually play and present my music in a live format.. the only person i know who does a proper live set on here is Dirty Bass, feel free to point me in the direction of some more as thats what i love!

[oldbugger]

I read in an interview with K90 that his live PAs are always prerecorded onto DAT. When he starts playing his live set he'll also start the DAT running. That way, if the live stuff goes pear shaped he can fade in the DAT and let the prerecorded set take over. Sounds like a good failsafe to me.

yeah right, sounds to me like he's just making excuses for when he just lets the DAT run thru to me

if something goes wrong to the point were u cant carry on then any crowd with their head's screwed on understand that its not ur fault surely? and if they dont then just throw a synth at them and walk off haha

these "live pa's" people are knocking out are not Live sets, they are simply a mixture of their own tracks that they've mixed in Ableton, and half the time with no real flow or dexterity to the sets or music.... there are however some who do it extremely well with alot of interactions, fresh elements dropped in along the way etc etc, but its still not live in the sense of playing the instruments, playing the sampler, playing the keyboard, playing the drum machine

thats live to me and i wont be budged on it, someone mixing their own music in ableton is not live, the only thing live about it is in the software name ffs

exactly... its just a way of them being able to do a dj set without having their tunes pressed for most of them.. and thats not what i call live.

have heard some amazing ableton sets though and they deserve respect .

most i have heard have been utter shit tho.
and by no stretch of the imagination a live set :dontevengothere:

may as well just load up traktor with your tunes at home, put it on auto mix..rip it to cd then play it in a club and go have a beer and a dance and listen to it yourself from the dancefloor. would be much more fun :lol:

not saying this about everyone b4 you start but it happens...

[TechMouse]

but people letting ableton mix their own tracks into a 50min or so set and calling it a "live PA"... no, i dont encourage that... i could do one of them today and call it a live set but i dont want to, if i go live im waiting to the point were i can actually play and present my music in a live format..
Agreed.

Glorified "Traktor" basically.


the only person i know who does a proper live set on here is Dirty Bass, feel free to point me in the direction of some more as thats what i love!

My mate Gaz does an "Ableton Set", where he mixes up lots of stuff with lots of stuff. It's not totally Techno, but it has a very Techno edge to it most of the time. Anyway, it's worth a listen if you're interested in what people are doing with Ableton...

Caned and Ableton (http://www.ffaction.com/cgi-bin/unicounter/unicounter.pl?name=RawHedroomCanedandAbleton&deliv er=http://www.ffaction.com/music/RawHedroom-Caned-and-Ableton.mp3)

He doesn't call it a Live PA as such, cuz that would be misleading - but he does go through something like 50 tracks in 60 minutes, occasionally throwing his own beats and FX over the top. Goes down a storm in a club.

It features scratching from Max Cooper.

I like it anyway...

Tracklist:

Various audio loops and samples found bumbling around my studio
6 am – Alex Smoke (Soma)
Freak - LFO (Warp)
Brian’s Lung – Alex Smoke (Soma)
Happy Violentine (LFO mix) – Miss Kittin (Novamute)
Body Dub (Tiefschwarz remix) – Unit 4 (Clone)
All That Matters – Funk D’Void (Soma)
Fructalbreak – Cursor Miner (Seed)
Technology – Si Begg (Novamute)
Bashment Track – Baobinga (Cyberfunk)
Geek – Phantom Beats (Plastic Raygun)
Smooth Criminal - Michael Jackson (Epic)
Salty (Deep Groove’s Dirty House Dub) – Dylan Rhymes (Kingsize)
Shot Dub – The Funk - o – Bots (White)
Virtual Breakdown (Laboratoire Mix) – Laurent Garnier (Sony)
Flashback – Laurent Garnier (F-Comm)
Brain Machine- Hexadecimal (Heavy Disco)
Technology – Ed Rush/Nico (No U-Turn)
Acid Wave – Rob Acid (Molecular Funk Guerilla)
Otomatic - Cosmic Force (Clone)
The Arrival – H-Fusion (Transmat)
Flash – Green Velvet (News)
Billy Hologram – Milanese (Warp)
Be Young, Be Foolish, Be Happy – The Tams (ABC)
Jack Me Off – Funk D’Void (Soma)
Spastik – Plastikman (Novamute)
The Pong – Audion (Ghostly International)
Oh Yeah – Yello (Smash)
Tilt – Partisan Midi (Clone)
Hip Hop – Dead Prez (Relativity)
The Many and The Few – The Matthew Herbert Big Band (Accidental)
Jittery Heritage (Domink Eulberg Remix) – Einmusik (Italic)
Jittery Heritage (Egoexpress Remix) – Einmusik (Italic)
Prepgwarlek36 – Aphex Twin (Warp)
Make Up – The Soft Pink Truth (Soundslike)
Nag Nag Nag (Akufen’s Kareoke Slam Mix) – Cabaret Voltaire (Novamute)
Revolution – Max Hedroom (cdr)
From Reggae to Hell – DJ Flush (Shitkatapult)
Paranoid Dancer – Johannes Heil (Kanzleramt)
Flat Beat – Mr Oizo (F-Comm)
Decompression – Mathew Jonson (Minus)
I.I.E – Gus Gus (Underwater)
Flatline – Tim Wright (Novamute)
Kittens – Underworld (V2/BMG)
I’ll House You – Jungle Brothers (Simply Vinyl)
Gunman – Vex’d (Rephlex)
I Love KNY Track 2 – Ub Dub feat. Ub Dub Brothers (KNY)
Matter of Illusion – Chris Kalera (C-Kal)
Dark Disco – Kenny Larkin (Transmat)
So Malleable – Milanese (Warp)

[eyes without a face]

sweetness il check that out when i get on the audio pc later nice one, i quite like sets like this because its not claiming to be a live pa when its not, its a guy having fun throwing some tracks together, right on!

il let u know what i think ;)

[oldbugger]

but people letting ableton mix their own tracks into a 50min or so set and calling it a "live PA"... no, i dont encourage that... i could do one of them today and call it a live set but i dont want to, if i go live im waiting to the point were i can actually play and present my music in a live format..
Agreed.

Glorified "Traktor" basically.


the only person i know who does a proper live set on here is Dirty Bass, feel free to point me in the direction of some more as thats what i love!

My mate Gaz does an "Ableton Set", where he mixes up lots of stuff with lots of stuff. It's not totally Techno, but it has a very Techno edge to it most of the time. Anyway, it's worth a listen if you're interested in what people are doing with Ableton...

Caned and Ableton (http://www.ffaction.com/cgi-bin/unicounter/unicounter.pl?name=RawHedroomCanedandAbleton&deliv er=http://www.ffaction.com/music/RawHedroom-Caned-and-Ableton.mp3)

He doesn't call it a Live PA as such, cuz that would be misleading - but he does go through something like 50 tracks in 60 minutes, occasionally throwing his own beats and FX over the top. Goes down a storm in a club.

It features scratching from Max Cooper.

I like it anyway...

Tracklist:

Various audio loops and samples found bumbling around my studio
6 am – Alex Smoke (Soma)
Freak - LFO (Warp)
Brian’s Lung – Alex Smoke (Soma)
Happy Violentine (LFO mix) – Miss Kittin (Novamute)
Body Dub (Tiefschwarz remix) – Unit 4 (Clone)
All That Matters – Funk D’Void (Soma)
Fructalbreak – Cursor Miner (Seed)
Technology – Si Begg (Novamute)
Bashment Track – Baobinga (Cyberfunk)
Geek – Phantom Beats (Plastic Raygun)
Smooth Criminal - Michael Jackson (Epic)
Salty (Deep Groove’s Dirty House Dub) – Dylan Rhymes (Kingsize)
Shot Dub – The Funk - o – Bots (White)
Virtual Breakdown (Laboratoire Mix) – Laurent Garnier (Sony)
Flashback – Laurent Garnier (F-Comm)
Brain Machine- Hexadecimal (Heavy Disco)
Technology – Ed Rush/Nico (No U-Turn)
Acid Wave – Rob Acid (Molecular Funk Guerilla)
Otomatic - Cosmic Force (Clone)
The Arrival – H-Fusion (Transmat)
Flash – Green Velvet (News)
Billy Hologram – Milanese (Warp)
Be Young, Be Foolish, Be Happy – The Tams (ABC)
Jack Me Off – Funk D’Void (Soma)
Spastik – Plastikman (Novamute)
The Pong – Audion (Ghostly International)
Oh Yeah – Yello (Smash)
Tilt – Partisan Midi (Clone)
Hip Hop – Dead Prez (Relativity)
The Many and The Few – The Matthew Herbert Big Band (Accidental)
Jittery Heritage (Domink Eulberg Remix) – Einmusik (Italic)
Jittery Heritage (Egoexpress Remix) – Einmusik (Italic)
Prepgwarlek36 – Aphex Twin (Warp)
Make Up – The Soft Pink Truth (Soundslike)
Nag Nag Nag (Akufen’s Kareoke Slam Mix) – Cabaret Voltaire (Novamute)
Revolution – Max Hedroom (cdr)
From Reggae to Hell – DJ Flush (Shitkatapult)
Paranoid Dancer – Johannes Heil (Kanzleramt)
Flat Beat – Mr Oizo (F-Comm)
Decompression – Mathew Jonson (Minus)
I.I.E – Gus Gus (Underwater)
Flatline – Tim Wright (Novamute)
Kittens – Underworld (V2/BMG)
I’ll House You – Jungle Brothers (Simply Vinyl)
Gunman – Vex’d (Rephlex)
I Love KNY Track 2 – Ub Dub feat. Ub Dub Brothers (KNY)
Matter of Illusion – Chris Kalera (C-Kal)
Dark Disco – Kenny Larkin (Transmat)
So Malleable – Milanese (Warp)


thats what i mean...stuff like this is cool.
its just the ones doing this supposedly live set malarky.

downloading that now..looks interesting :cool:

[TechMouse]

its not claiming to be a live pa when its not
Yeah, he's very careful with how it gets advertised - if only in recognition of the very cool stuff being done by people which truly deserves the "live PA" moniker.

[eyes without a face]

its not claiming to be a live pa when its not
Yeah, he's very careful with how it gets advertised - if only in recognition of the very cool stuff being done by people which truly deserves the "live PA" moniker.

exactly

im glad someone else understands this haha ;)

[nova]

I read in an interview with K90 that his live PAs are always prerecorded onto DAT. When he starts playing his live set he'll also start the DAT running. That way, if the live stuff goes pear shaped he can fade in the DAT and let the prerecorded set take over. Sounds like a good failsafe to me.

yeah right, sounds to me like he's just making excuses for when he just lets the DAT run thru to me

if something goes wrong to the point were u cant carry on then any crowd with their head's screwed on understand that its not ur fault surely? and if they dont then just throw a synth at them and walk off haha

these "live pa's" people are knocking out are not Live sets, they are simply a mixture of their own tracks that they've mixed in Ableton, and half the time with no real flow or dexterity to the sets or music.... there are however some who do it extremely well with alot of interactions, fresh elements dropped in along the way etc etc, but its still not live in the sense of playing the instruments, playing the sampler, playing the keyboard, playing the drum machine

thats live to me and i wont be budged on it, someone mixing their own music in ableton is not live, the only thing live about it is in the software name ffs


he plays global. a dat can be expected. he's getting payed big money to play an hour he's not just gonna get off & say dont worrie about it.

[eyes without a face]

exactly, he's getting paid big money so he should have his proper live set on the ball, and its very rare that a live set goes so bad that they do have to cancel a few tracks into it....

id rather the artist held their hands up if it went proper pear shaped then hear a recording of their set whilst they stand there and take the glory, no thanks!

[nova]

exactly, he's getting paid big money so he should have his proper live set on the ball, and its very rare that a live set goes so bad that they do have to cancel a few tracks into it....

id rather the artist held their hands up if it went proper pear shaped then hear a recording of their set whilst they stand there and take the glory, no thanks!


yeah but if its a totaly like comp frying or somthing he can switch quik to the dat & if he's in another country & traveled along way and a waiting a fat check i dout he's gonna want ta hold hes hands in the air. yeah if its some slipped beats that hes gotta quikly hit mod stick ta chuck back in time. then yeah get them hands in the air.

can see the point of hes dat. he's a big show & its he's living. least he went & spent the money on a dat. & i dout very much he whould injoy playing the set from a dat i mean come on man. i bet i fecking luvs playing he's live set

[nova]

i heard adout this dude that came over from another country to play at i m8s night 666. & hes computer died when he was over a when the night had started & he had ta borrow cds. & was gutted coz he realy wanted to play hes stuff. fecking dat machine whould of made hes day

[slavestudios]

i used to do live pa's.

total hardware with patterns in each machine. but I had to change & make the patterns do something or it wouldve sat on one loop for 75 minutes..

no dat in the back ground.. and quite frankly, F**K ANYONE WHO USES THIS.

you may as well go on TOTP & mime to a Minogue track you f**king fake



as for this 'ableton isnt live' i think that is also balls.
if you jus play sequences, then it is balling. but if u jam your loops & parts live with margin for error, then it is live..

go look at a Pink Floyd dvd... say.. live at pompei


THATS your answer... i never seen Hendrix with a f**kin dat behind his Marshall stack... & he set his kit of fire :rambo:

[acidsaturation]

I read in an interview with K90 that his live PAs are always prerecorded onto DAT. When he starts playing his live set he'll also start the DAT running. That way, if the live stuff goes pear shaped he can fade in the DAT and let the prerecorded set take over. Sounds like a good failsafe to me.

The live set must be pretty regimented and planned if he can ensure it's gonna be the same as a prerecorded one.

Can see the point though and have taken an emergency minidisk with tunes on, but not a set. I enjoy pissing about too much to have too much planned, eventhough it may sound better form a laptop. And I love my hardware too much.

[nova]

i used to do live pa's.

total hardware with patterns in each machine. but I had to change & make the patterns do something or it wouldve sat on one loop for 75 minutes..

no dat in the back ground.. and quite frankly, F**K ANYONE WHO USES THIS.

you may as well go on TOTP & mime to a Minogue track you f**king fake



as for this 'ableton isnt live' i think that is also balls.
if you jus play sequences, then it is balling. but if u jam your loops & parts live with margin for error, then it is live..

go look at a Pink Floyd dvd... say.. live at pompei


THATS your answer... i never seen Hendrix with a f**kin dat behind his Marshall stack... & he set his kit of fire :rambo:


hahahah. ok i will never mention a dat again. thats got me abit coz sounding very harsh!, & also its just a safe gaurd. having a dat running in back ground. he's taken a extra percausion so he doesnt **** up for us.

and when i mentioned about m8'e. i said coz he was gutted. coz he had from abroad. yeah i wouldnt like ta pay to see somone live & them doit on a dat but i doudt they like doing on a dat either. i just thout it sounded good as a back up man. dont take me to serously man. im a novice :rambo:

[nova]

anyways. thats harsh calling i a ****ing fake. i nerver said anyone had played from a dat. read back. i think youve got on your high horse there sorry

[holotropik]

Playing Live is definately subject to much controversy of late.

A basic rule of thumb is that the music must be produced by the person(s) playing it, it must be from hardware of some description and it must be predominantly improvised from sound sources produced by said artist(s).

the last point is the most difficult part to define. The ideal that if the performer does nothing then the music goes nowhere is the important point.

Ableton has also stirred much debate as (1) - it uses a laptop PC which can be rather boring visually (2) - subject to debate on level of improvisation as tracks can be pre-sequenced at whatever length leaving either heaps of improvisation or not much which you dont know unless you are standing behind the performer(s).

Probably the most notable thing to comment with regards to Live music is the element of the performer and the "magic" that occurs from an artist blending with an instrument "to become one" so that there is the communication from artist through instrument to audience.

In the past a guitarist made the obvious connection (as someone mentioned Jimmy Hendrix) to the audience. You could stand there and plainly see that this guy was playing an instrument and through that sight/hearing combination you were able to get immersed in the artists headspace somehow and feel part of it all. Thats the key to playing Live and reaching out to the audience and giving them part of you.

In order to do that it takes a certain level of commitment from the artist to "jump off the cliff" and play the instrument so that it is like part of yourself. Thats why the good guitarists have reached that level after playing till their fingers bleed and they can do it in their sleep. (also why the Samurai were one with the sword).....hehehe.

So if what you do to play live puts you into that frame of mind that makes you commit to the process with everything you have then it can be said to be Live. No matter what you use in order to do that. Its about the commitment in terms of focus and intent. (Like in an extreme sport when, say, you want to base-jump of a cliff into a valley - you must commit 100% to the act or you will come unstuck and crash).

[holotropik]

Having said all that and had some time to think....

The whole Ableton thing presents another realm where a producer of music can now present a piece of work to an audience in a way that is much the same as a DJ does (a recent example for me is "The Divide - My Twisted Emotions" Ableton mix). A seamless string of music that can motivate a dance-floor, albeit, music that is personally produced and programmed by that said producer.

this is different than "Live" as considered by most before the advent of Ableton etc.

therefore it is equally valid yet different and should be differentiated and promoted in an artistic way as such. It is still difficult to do and is creatively valid and takes advantage of technology. (ie: "artist name" - Live Production Set) - or something to that effect) ??? I dont know ???

its a tricky one that shall have its place....any thoughts?

[Tyrisia]

I'm not goin to have an Ableton discussion, i'm just gonna learn how to use it to best potential, play it like an instrument, get the best out of it, and rape my bare loops for all they're worth.

[Tyrisia]

And if i can give somethin different to every crowd i play to, and people wanna call it a PA, then good for them!

[JohnnySideways]

that K90 thing is a ****in joke...he doesnt even plug his keyboard in..theyre there for show.. :nono:

[EmotionComplex]

that K90 thing is a **** joke...he doesnt even plug his keyboard in..theyre there for show.. :nono:

i had the opportunity to get a good lookat what he was upto last year as i was playing after him, he might aswell just of been playing a mix cd and dancing to it!

a midi keyboard was set up for no apparant reason and every now and then hes tap some keys and dance about,a laptop that was just playing his tracks as audio tracks in logic, i could see them all in order and he must of exported them all at the same tempo so it was just a matter of arrangeing them in order before he left the house.

and a big mixer which wasnt needed either as he was plugged into the dj mixer from it, he could of just taken a direct output from his laptop into it.

i mean to most people there it must of looked pretty good as they wouldnt of know but when you realise what hes upto its just embaracing to watch really, he should of just did a dj set and playedhis stuff on vinyl
:roll:

[dirty_bass]

The problem I see is that Live PA`s are getting more popular, as people are getting a little tired of people playing records, there`s a really good article about this, in digital DJ Mag, with a surprisingly down to earth and on point interview with Sasha.
Anyway, lots of DJ`s are suddenly doing "live" PA`s, so they still get booked, when all they are doing is mixing their tunes on Ableton, it kinda makes a mockery of people who spend a lot of time on their PA`s.
For me, a live PA for a 1 hour gig, is a weeks work.
And I`m just starting to work on a 2 man, battle PA, with one of the collective, which is gonna be even more work.

[Tyrisia]

diss the lazy f***ers that ain't usin it properly.

but to diss Ableton itself as a program, that can be used to produce just as malleable, versatile, and dare i say it, more advanced a set as any hardware, which can be performed as opposed to played, just like hardware, seems to me to be a little bit off.

coz that's takin away the credit from those who are usin it like hardware to perform great PA's, which is very insulting and unfair, they have probably put alot of time and effort into practising and perfecting, and that shouldn't be taken away from them by ignorance.

[dirty_bass]

diss the lazy f***ers that ain't usin it properly.

but to diss Ableton itself as a program, that can be used to produce just as malleable, versatile, and dare i say it, more advanced a set as any hardware, which can be performed as opposed to played, just like hardware, seems to me to be a little bit off.

coz that's takin away the credit from those who are usin it like hardware to perform great PA's, which is very insulting and unfair, they have probably put alot of time and effort into practising and perfecting, and that shouldn't be taken away from them by ignorance.

Oh for sure, ableton is amazing, but unfortunately users of it will get a little lumped into those that use it as little more than a DJ tool.
But as a piece of kit for creative Live PA performance, it is fantasitc.
Although I still like to see more than a guy with a laptop and a mouse, it looks so lame.
Controllers and toys are needed.

[Tyrisia]

Although I still like to see more than a guy with a laptop and a mouse, it looks so lame.
Controllers and toys are needed.

Loadsa controllers, indeed, there aint no way i'd even want to go near a mouse onstage, too much time wasted and the possibility for f**kin it up in a moment of excitement is immense.

But as we all know, Ableton can be used as an mpc with a big screen, and with all the right buttons to push and knobs to tweek, would probably not look an awful lot different to a hardware performance.

And it'd still be a hell of a lot less to get on n off the plane :lol:

[Komplex]

Did you call him out on it? I hope you didn't just keep your mouth shut and look the other way...



that K90 thing is a **** joke...he doesnt even plug his keyboard in..theyre there for show.. :nono:

i had the opportunity to get a good lookat what he was upto last year as i was playing after him, he might aswell just of been playing a mix cd and dancing to it!

a midi keyboard was set up for no apparant reason and every now and then hes tap some keys and dance about,a laptop that was just playing his tracks as audio tracks in logic, i could see them all in order and he must of exported them all at the same tempo so it was just a matter of arrangeing them in order before he left the house.

and a big mixer which wasnt needed either as he was plugged into the dj mixer from it, he could of just taken a direct output from his laptop into it.

i mean to most people there it must of looked pretty good as they wouldnt of know but when you realise what hes upto its just embaracing to watch really, he should of just did a dj set and playedhis stuff on vinyl
:roll:

[RDR]

There's nothing inherently wrong in playing a full track in a live set. Its there are plenty of reasons to do it. Going to the loo is a major, major one.. hahahahaha!

But seriously, if im going to do it i usually chop the track up so i can edit and extend on the fly, there are some tracks that i know work a dancefloor. The tracks are my productions and no-one else's.

Which brings me to the other point, I dont like P.A.'s that use other peoples music, or loops from already released tracks that arent theirs. In my book it's dishonest to do this and call yourself a live PA.

Just MO.

[holotropik]

I couldnt imagine producing this music without having the desire to play it live.....straight from the source.

[holotropik]

Present the sounds for what they are in a Live way.

You dont have the liberty of pre-sequencing the setup of the sounds. Rather you can personally deliver them in a way that presents them for what they are in a more pure and naive sense.


....sorry bout that :? thats all I can think of for now.

sound for the sake of sound.