View Full Version : EBAY: People selling DJ's mixes...Right or wrong?
Si the Sigh
23-09-2005, 08:19 AM
Some geezer is selling DAVE the Drummer mixes on eBay. Both sets were available off of this site, one from Poland & one from Scotland. Seeing as these mixes were put up for free, don't you think it's a tad cuntish that someones trying to make money from them?
The Overfiend
23-09-2005, 08:26 AM
Where!???!!!!!
Si the Sigh
23-09-2005, 08:53 AM
www.ebay.co.uk and search for "acid techno" and theres 2 mixes on page 2 or 3.
This has been going on for ages now. I've seen loads of DJ's sets being sold on there that have been available online.
I just think its taking the piss a bit...well, lots!
Si the Sigh
23-09-2005, 08:58 AM
Here you go, links...
Poland set - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DAVE-THE-DRUMMER-LIVE-POLAND-ACID-TECHNO_W0QQitemZ4771953709QQcategoryZ1577QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem
Scotland set - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DAVE-THE-DRUMMER-LIVE-SCOTLAND-ACID-TECHNO_W0QQitemZ4771953731QQcategoryZ1577QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem
Isn't that one in Scotland someone off this boards night? :?:
The Overfiend
23-09-2005, 09:05 AM
bollocks, what a jip
Jay Pace
23-09-2005, 09:57 AM
So long as they're not selling it for much, I suppose it just comes down to the cost of someone else downloading it, burning it on to a CD and posting it out.
There are probably thousands of Dave the Drummer fans out there without computers, broadband and CD burners.
Si the Sigh
23-09-2005, 10:16 AM
True, but they must have the net to get onto the 'bay! :lol:
analog tactic
23-09-2005, 10:29 AM
i think its wrong! majorly wrong!
its almost, like pressing one of his tunes onto a vinyl and selling it yourself. big big :nono:
dan the acid man
23-09-2005, 11:53 AM
yeah, its highly illegal, and yes im sure some of the people involved in refresh are members on this board.
last time i saw a set like this for sale, it didnt sell, so serves them right if it doesnt again
DJ Asylum
23-09-2005, 11:54 AM
Its illegal.
Well there's a conversation stopper! :lol:
No, it aint right. I know i've probably breached a lot of copyrights in the past, but i wouldn't dream of charging for it.....i'm just spreading the love :love: :cool: i do it for free bady, Yeah!
DJ Asylum
23-09-2005, 12:44 PM
*baby
:doh:
doc12inch
23-09-2005, 01:59 PM
ive seen this too - its completely wrong - if a club were doing it at one of there nights - thats ok.
but ebay - jesus there profiting of sum1elses hard work.
what does it take to download and burn and mix - bout 35 mins, and your selling it on - SLACK!!!!
Internal Error Records
23-09-2005, 02:13 PM
its wrong.
and selfish.
and rude.
and short sighted.
gumpy green
23-09-2005, 02:53 PM
http://search.ebay.co.uk/_W0QQsassZbushyQ5fuk
no bid u fuker
acidsaturation
23-09-2005, 03:09 PM
Some one who's got an e-bay account shop him.
stjohn
23-09-2005, 06:03 PM
i can look at his paypal account and mess it up :twisted:
wittyname
23-09-2005, 06:54 PM
wrong :protest:
reminds me of a site we've seen come and go several times now..
Mirsha
23-09-2005, 07:56 PM
Get Dave to speak to ebay about it, they have to take him a bit seriously if he's claiming copyright infringement which he can easily do by adding a "not for profit" blurb to his site.
Aratron
23-09-2005, 08:45 PM
yeah but its still free publicity for dave the drummer right?
someone could listen to the mix, and think , i need to buy those records, i want to get into this scene.
Aratron
23-09-2005, 08:47 PM
i'll put my hand up i bought a cd off ebay abbout two years ago , it had a wicked dave the drummer mix on it.
and several very forgettable chris liberator mixes on it.
does that make me a bad man?
no, just a fool.
now if you were selling them, you would be a bad man.
;)
Aratron
23-09-2005, 09:08 PM
no, just a fool.
;)
can't agree with that.
if i saw a lot more mixes on ebay for sale i would consider buying them again. i have seen dave the drummer live lotsa times and i've spent gosh knows maybe £300 on his records probably a lot more.
were not living in a nanny state. this happens and will continue to do so.
The Divide
23-09-2005, 09:48 PM
I cant believe people can sell pirated software on there
Surely thats illegal?
The Divide
23-09-2005, 09:54 PM
Forget that, they dont seem to have any on now :lol: Seen it in the past tho
The Divide
23-09-2005, 09:56 PM
Oh yes they do..
http://cgi.ebay.com/GREAT-CUBASE-SX-3-0_W0QQitemZ7352897337QQcategoryZ23785QQrdZ1QQcmdZV iewItem
:doh:
lunatrick
24-09-2005, 12:09 PM
the thing is lots of places used to sell mix tapes by dj 'whoever', but pretty sure the producers didn't get any cash...not sure if that still goes on. If you buy stuff like this from ebay then you must be a muppet - why not just get it off soulseek or download it from various club nights websites? :roll:
Some geezer is selling DAVE the Drummer mixes on eBay. Both sets were available off of this site, one from Poland & one from Scotland. Seeing as these mixes were put up for free, don't you think it's a tad cuntish that someones trying to make money from them?
WRONG!!!!! someone ripped all the hindsight sets off the cd pack and sold them individually on Ebay for #4 per cd.
How dodgy is that man
he's going to hell though so all good.
Louk
conflict
24-09-2005, 12:26 PM
i was gonna make a post about this aswell
its wrong but you've got to be a ****ing dumbass to buy them
morons!!
You can buy mixes on Ebay?? Cool!!! Thanx for the tip guys!!! :clap: :clap:
:crackup:
Selling mixes like that is not cool. Especially since they were released for free to begin with. It feels exploitative to me.
lunatrick
24-09-2005, 05:06 PM
I think it's fair enough if a club records a set and maybe puts up on their site or copies a few cd's to give to mates.....but selling on ebay? morally wrong and most probably illegal....and well a bit sad really......
I messaged him saying if he doesnt take em down ill be reporting him.
Cunt.
The Divide
24-09-2005, 05:20 PM
Heres a thought...
Isn't there a way of massaging them where it appears on the bottom of the item page. Why not we all go on there and bombard it with some messages and try boycott it
dan the acid man
24-09-2005, 05:21 PM
im not massaging a man :lol: :lol: :shock:
The Divide
24-09-2005, 05:22 PM
bauahahahahah :lol: :doh:
Stella Boy
24-09-2005, 05:29 PM
im not massaging a man again :lol: :lol: :shock:
Stella Boy
24-09-2005, 05:30 PM
just sent a message to the seller asking why he was selling one of my mixes on ebay :lol:
dan the acid man
24-09-2005, 05:53 PM
im not massaging a man again :lol: :lol: :shock:
yeah, but you pay well :oops: :lol:
The Divide
24-09-2005, 06:04 PM
just sent a message to the seller asking why he was selling one of my mixes on ebay :lol:
it wont sell ;) :lol:
Stella Boy
24-09-2005, 06:39 PM
just sent a message to the seller asking why he was selling one of my mixes on ebay :lol:
it wont sell ;) :lol:
twatbags, not again :doh: :lol:
FUSION
24-09-2005, 08:49 PM
this is well wrong as henrys not an overpriced corporate idiot. stealing off the underground is shit :protest:
I messaged him saying if he doesnt take em down ill be reporting him.
Cunt.
Thats why i did that...
massplanck
25-09-2005, 02:51 AM
whats the difference between people selling mixes on ebay and people downloading peoples tracks without paying for them through soulseek et al?
massplanck
25-09-2005, 02:52 AM
Sorry... i dont want a slap but i bet half the people who are getting their knickers in a twist about this have no problems d/l dave the drummer tunes for nothing thru soulseek.
Not taking sides or anything but i find it ****ing funny.
Stella Boy
25-09-2005, 03:52 AM
it's probably the fact someone is making money from it which sticks in peoples throats :neutral:
massplanck
25-09-2005, 04:01 AM
it's probably the fact someone is making money from it which sticks in peoples throats :neutral:
Whats worse people making some money from free stuff or people get stuff for free which they should b paying for.
So what ome dude get 20 euros for a mix. Doesnt matter that 20,000 people have ripped DTD tracks on their machines. :neutral:
massplanck
25-09-2005, 04:05 AM
sorry.. how come a thread where a producers isnt getting ripped of sparks so many 'OMG!!! and i cant believe it! replys when a MP3 debate usually ends up in deadlock or stoney silence from lots of people?
:doh: :doh: :doh:
dan the acid man
25-09-2005, 01:53 PM
i can sleep soundly knowing ive never downloaded illegally
whats the difference between people selling mixes on ebay and people downloading peoples tracks without paying for them through soulseek et al?
nothing - except i dont do that.
And whilst we are on the subject, whats the difference between that and posting mixes from DJs on the techno filez section of this forum..
Again
No difference.
Tiddlypeep
25-09-2005, 09:30 PM
Just seen this post guys and I would just like to clarify that nobody from Refresh knew about this or are invovled in this in anyway!.
It makes me a bit angry that someone would use a mix we put up on BA for FREE to make profit out of it. Seems a bit said really.
Some people are twats really.
Will :)
davethedrummer
25-09-2005, 09:43 PM
actually to my mind these days its all wrong......
mixes on websites too ( sorry guys but there it is)
it just encourages poeple to be armchair listeners
and what we need right now is positive action to keep the music alive.
this means BUYING the music you listen to
yes the buck DOES stop with you , not your mate or some twat on an internet forum you just heard about but YOU. ( all of us right?)
meaning .....if you like it and you want it then BUY IT.
any other way of obtaining underground music right now is undermining the whole scene for everybody.
right now everything is changing , the formats are changing, people are confused , etc etc .
so the way to act positively is to put your cash into the industry , and there's only one way to do that.
so anyway rant over.
i'm really fuming about this , firstly because those mixes were free and never intended for sale , also because they undermine anything i might have planned for release ( which i do in jan )
and mainly because the guy must be a really dozy c.u.n.t to even think about doping it in the first place.
i will check it out and make a formal complaint to e-bay through my management
:evil:
Martin Dust
25-09-2005, 09:55 PM
I disagree with Henry here, I download mixes and spend a lot more money because of it, there are also white papers that back up the theory/prove that people who download buy more music.
Of course you are going to get people who never buy anything but at least they are still listening and are probably more likely to go to a club than someone who doesn't download.
See you on Friday Henry....
conflict
25-09-2005, 10:40 PM
i can kind of see where dave is coming from
i've really got into downloading dj sets recently
and i havent bought any rcords this year
i'll hold my hands up
i get my techno fix from listening to the top boys mixing it up, its become a 2nd hobby to me- if you know what i mean
but saying that my personal/finacial priorities have also changed this year
i do feel guilty for not putting some money back into the scene, and i bet there are plenty of people like me
davethedrummer
25-09-2005, 10:40 PM
I disagree with Henry here, I download mixes and spend a lot more money because of it, there are also white papers that back up the theory/prove that people who download buy more music.
Of course you are going to get people who never buy anything but at least they are still listening and are probably more likely to go to a club than someone who doesn't download.
See you on Friday Henry....
yeah you have a point
but my real point was ,that if i was to release a dj mix , which amazingly enough is about to happen ,
(in fact we are planning to do a series of dj mixes from the collective artists)
would downloads of my set on the net for free affect sales of my specially mixed cd release?
i would take a bet and say yes they would
and that's why i'm getting heated about it.
to be honest loads of people have recorded me over the years and i never make a fuss about it , it does serve as good promotion for me of course and i have even downloaded some of my own sets to listen back to.
but there's a lot of dishonest people out there and it's really making me question the whole idea of free sets on the internet.
there's no way to stop it ( or regulate it ) i know , and that's a wind up too
i don't know what more to say about it really , other than this is my job , i need the money for my family to eat and that's a really big deal in my life as i'm sure you can imagine.
i'm not trying to pull heart strings here , there are many other musicians in the same boat , and protecting our music ( and our rights) has become a regular hassle with all the new technology.
sure, promotion is always good , but only for gigging these days really
and i would rather make music in the studio and earn from that than endlessly tour around the worlds airports and cheap restaurants and hotels
, screw up my ears , drink too much , and talk to my growing son on the telephone every weekend.
sure it's fun when you start , and don't get me wrong i do enjoy the playing records bit , but the travelling to be honest ,it sucks a lot these days.
and this is what is happenning. people still want to go out and party and dj's are still very much in demand , but producing the music is much less taxing on the body and the mind and i miss being able to do that and feel justified spending the time in the studio doing it.
these days i write tracks knowing that i'm not going to see any money from them , and that means time and effort in the studio that's almost going to waste. ( almost )
so you see the position here.
as much as i like to give things for free in a kind of karmic gesture
( believing in a rather naive way that it' a "good" thing to do ) , i'm beginning to come round to the idea that by doing that i'm really undermining my own income. and that's pretty stupid really.
my ten cents
Barely Human
25-09-2005, 11:03 PM
these days i write tracks knowing that i'm not going to see any money from them , and that means time and effort in the studio that's almost going to waste.
:nono:
dan the acid man
25-09-2005, 11:10 PM
regarding free donwloadable sets, its a bit of a mixed one really, for me personally, i still buy loads of vinyl, even though i dont really dj much.
And theres loads of records iv'e heard people play in the sets ive downloaded, that iv'e gone out and bought after hunting them down for months, if not years.
But im dead against people selling these sets on for their own gain
conflict
25-09-2005, 11:12 PM
actually fuk it
i've pretty much got every dj set going
ebay here we come
:lol:
Si the Sigh
26-09-2005, 07:57 AM
:lol:
i emailled the cnut and got this back
well its time to be very very ****ing suprised! I dont understand why you would ask such a stupid ****ing question. Its hurting me to let these packs go, as they hold amazing memories of some of the nights i went to kinetic!
I was a weekly attendee of the best club of its time, Kinetic was what i lived for.
Now either put a bid on this ORIGINAL tape pack or stop wasting my time with petty comments!"
I sent this back...
My apologies.
Posted a question to the wrong person, clearly.
Hang on, ill just check..
Hmmm, dont think so MATE what about those DAve the Drummer Mixes etc etc etc
Dont play innocent mate, im part of the music industry and its ****ers like you who are taking bread from my mouth and the mouths of my friends industry wide.
dont give a shit about your original mix tapes. but the recorded sets???? Get them gone. NOW otherwise i WILL inform ebay, this is your last warning.
Do you think i made a friend?
Si the Sigh
26-09-2005, 10:57 AM
Yea man, friends fo' life! :cool: :lol:
TechMouse
26-09-2005, 11:09 AM
i've really got into downloading dj sets recently
No.... really?
Si the Sigh
26-09-2005, 11:35 AM
:lol:
dan the acid man
26-09-2005, 01:49 PM
nice comeback dodgy
The Divide
26-09-2005, 03:38 PM
:clap:
Nice one guys
dan the acid man
26-09-2005, 03:51 PM
i asked him a question the other day, i asked, does he know what hes doing is illegal
his reply today is.....................
I sell them on the understanding that they are back ups for original copies.
I beleive it is a legal loophole.
If i'm wrong then please let me know.
Regards
Bushy
Jay Pace
26-09-2005, 03:58 PM
i asked him a question the other day, i asked, does he know what hes doing is illegal
his reply today is.....................
I sell them on the understanding that they are back ups for original copies.
I beleive it is a legal loophole.
If i'm wrong then please let me know.
Regards
Bushy
To be fair, I think he's got us there.
I exploit the same loophole to sell crack, guns and east african children.
TechMouse
26-09-2005, 04:04 PM
The fact that anyone might use the word "loophole" implies that they know they're doing wrong, they just don't care...
schlongfingers
26-09-2005, 04:41 PM
Thats flawed as **** because these aren't legal releases are they, they aren't sold as original copies.
He's at risk of prosecution from all the owners of copyright to the tracks featured on the mixes - someone should get a tracklisting and contact the labels if they really want to screw him over.
conflict
26-09-2005, 05:02 PM
http://www.dj-sets.co.uk/pages/ordering.htm
oldbugger
26-09-2005, 05:07 PM
http://www.dj-sets.co.uk/pages/legal.htm
:eh:
oldbugger
26-09-2005, 05:08 PM
right.. thats it. gonna start a website and sell all mine.
£4 a mix..i'll be loaded :lol:
wrong
26-09-2005, 10:23 PM
i think its wrong!
OY leave me out of this, wasn't me
DJAmok
26-09-2005, 10:35 PM
In Germany it's 5 years of prison for doin that
MARKEG
27-09-2005, 12:33 AM
my immediate response is to say 'totally wrong'.
and i really felt what dave the d was saying.
but the real response should be HOW DO WE COMBAT THIS??
we can all moan it's the wrong thing to do but, it's happening, and it will keep happening and there's NOTHING we can do.
so rethink the goal posts. henry, if some guy is selling you mixes on ebay pirated well if you can't beat him join him. you have to set up an account, mix the mix yourself, print some nice sleeves and sell it as an original from you personally for twice the price.
we need to sort this and stop moaning (sorry to use this expression)....
you're all probably gonna have a go at me here.. but we all gotta get real ;)
so rethink the goal posts. henry, if some guy is selling you mixes on ebay pirated well if you can't beat him join him. you have to set up an account, mix the mix yourself, print some nice sleeves and sell it as an original from you personally for twice the price.
Yeah, you could still sell those mixes for less than a commcercial CD store would sell any CD. The other benefit is that you earn the revenue instead of having a pile of middlemen between you and the store taking your cash away from you.
Komplex
27-09-2005, 03:23 AM
If he's signed up with ebay, he'll have his details on there somewhere (even if it means you have to bid on the item and win it)
Get the contact info and send some legal documents to him.
This is straight up piracy... Only thing I'm worried about is him saying that he didn't make the recording(s) and that he is only selling a cd which he aquired from elsewhere... and many people sell second hand cd's on ebay.
All you lawyers on here, would he get away with it?
my immediate response is to say 'totally wrong'.
and i really felt what dave the d was saying.
but the real response should be HOW DO WE COMBAT THIS??
we can all moan it's the wrong thing to do but, it's happening, and it will keep happening and there's NOTHING we can do.
so rethink the goal posts. henry, if some guy is selling you mixes on ebay pirated well if you can't beat him join him. you have to set up an account, mix the mix yourself, print some nice sleeves and sell it as an original from you personally for twice the price.
we need to sort this and stop moaning (sorry to use this expression)....
you're all probably gonna have a go at me here.. but we all gotta get real ;)
The licensing would be fun....
daviec
27-09-2005, 07:34 AM
I don't know what mix this bloke had for sale, but if it is one from ReFresh (there have been two), then it was available on my site for a limited time. I always ask the dj's for permission to have the mixes available for download, and mostly they are OK with it, and if not then it doesn't go up. I only have them available for a limited time, then the next one goes up. The first of Henry's sets was actually only available for a very short time, as it was so popular (mainly in south america) that my ISP took my site down as I was abusing my bandwidth priviledges :lol:. I had offsite hosting for mixes after that and the second one was hosted there, again only for a limited time.
Just to clarify, I know Henry's said, in this thread, that he doesn't agree with mixes on sites, but he defo OK'd them at the time :)
oldbugger
27-09-2005, 06:38 PM
anyone want to buy the ebay accounts i have for sale under the user names 'mark eg' , D.A.V.E the drummer and numerous other big names?
:lol:
dan the acid man
27-09-2005, 07:12 PM
i'll have your, big wonger willy account cheers.
need to get rid of some vids quickly :lol:
schlongfingers
27-09-2005, 08:48 PM
my immediate response is to say 'totally wrong'.
and i really felt what dave the d was saying.
but the real response should be HOW DO WE COMBAT THIS??
we can all moan it's the wrong thing to do but, it's happening, and it will keep happening and there's NOTHING we can do.
so rethink the goal posts. henry, if some guy is selling you mixes on ebay pirated well if you can't beat him join him. you have to set up an account, mix the mix yourself, print some nice sleeves and sell it as an original from you personally for twice the price.
we need to sort this and stop moaning (sorry to use this expression)....
you're all probably gonna have a go at me here.. but we all gotta get real ;)
The licensing would be fun....
Innit!
You can't just put a mix together put your picture on it and sell it, it's ILLEGAL, you'll end up in a shit load of bother. Can't believe you even suggested this as a sensible thing to try.
TBH i wasnt making as harsh a point as that, although you do have a good one...
I meant that licensing a track legally requires a lot of running about having to go to a lot of people and say
"Im using a track of ours on a mix and need your permission"
It brings up an interesting point, with the PPL attempting to change the game with licensing of digital DJ stuff, doesnt it seem to you good folks on here that the licensing structure in the UK with all that it entails needs a bloody good shake up.
They expect us to work aorund them, yet they refuse to change around us -by us i mean all modern musicians from whatever genre... why? WE are the ones paying their wages, isnt it about time we started becoming pro-active in changing the system.
MY thinking on this is that the PRs, the MCPS and the PPL were created by musicians in the beginning to help us all, yet they have not changed rapidly enough to cope with the modern impracticalities of the industry as it stands today. again WHY?
Isnt it about time we started taling matters into our own hands. I dont know if im suggesting our own organisation to force change.. or just a protest on mass.
After all, we cant let these people have their way without have OUR say.
"You all with me brothers? SAY HELL YEH!"
only buzzin' But seriously this has gone beyond a ****ing joke. its time we DID something instead of biting each other on the ass and using everyone else as an excuse.
I dont for one minute think it would be easy. And im TOTALLY open to suggestions.
TechMouse
28-09-2005, 09:52 AM
I think perhaps a well written letter and collection of signatures?
Try and get as many serious producers and DJs, label owners etc., in on it.
Just an explanation of why the current system is flawed, and some ideas on how a system could be set up to benefit clubs, DJs, labels and producers alike.
Mind you - I bet nearly none of you write down all the tracks you play when you DJ and then send it off, do you? You should... as it's the only way of any performance royalties getting back to the producer.
I think perhaps a well written letter and collection of signatures?
Try and get as many serious producers and DJs, label owners etc., in on it.
Just an explanation of why the current system is flawed, and some ideas on how a system could be set up to benefit clubs, DJs, labels and producers alike.
Mind you - I bet nearly none of you write down all the tracks you play when you DJ and then send it off, do you? You should... as it's the only way of any performance royalties getting back to the producer.
An excellent point.
If we are going to try to change how the system works for OUR benefit we need to engage in the system, and this clearly we are not doing.
Has anyone got ANY ideas about this, im afraid im no expert on it and would really appreciate some suggestions.
and before anyone say "If you try to change the system, the system changes you" You are right. But it would be foolish to try not to.
There are some questions we all need to ask ourselves.
1. What is wrong with the current system of royalties and performance, in your opinion?
2. What is right with the system as it stands - i.e what needs to be kept
3. How do you feel you as a producer or DJ fits into this system of payments?
Thanks.
TechMouse
28-09-2005, 01:13 PM
1. What is wrong with the current system of royalties and performance, in your opinion?
Briefly, it just doesn't work for underground dance music.
Fundamentally, the problem is that the vast majority of people are ignorant of the system. This is not to say that they are at fault... more that the powers that be are not doing a good job when it comes to information dissemination.
As far as I can see:
Whenever you buy a piece of music - whatever medium it comes on - you are only licensed to listen to it at home for your own pleasure. The little writing on records and CDs that you buy (normally alluding to "public perfromance of this material prohibited") means that you do not have the right to play it in public. This means anywhere from a wedding, to a school fair, to a shop, to a club, to on the radio.
Any venue (shop, pub, club, bar etc.) which wishes to play music, pays for a licence. This gives them the freedom to play whatever they want. This is why it's ok to DJ in licenced venues - as they have paid for the privilege.
The idea is that the money collected is distributed out to the people who make the music. (i.e. the producers and artists). In order for this to happen in a fair manner, radio stations are required to compile playlists of what goes out on the air. Likewise, DJs who play in clubs etc. are (supposedly) required to make a list of every track they play. If the producer and label are registered with PRS then they will get a bit of money in line with how many plays they get week in week out.
Where this breaks down, is that many producers just aren't registered with PRS. Furthermore, most DJs don't submit lists. The end result being that the money gets divided in bigger chunks throughout those who are registered, in line with the recorded plays - in the main, from mainstream radio and shitty cheese clubs.
So, bottom line - because most underground producers don't register with PRS, and most underground DJs don't submit playlists... the money paid by underground music venues for their licence largely gets distributed amonst the likes of Britney Spears, McFly, U2 etc. etc. Which, obviously, is grossly unfair.
2. What is right with the system as it stands - i.e what needs to be kept
What's right is the desire to reward producers and artists for their work. It is right that people making records that get lots of plays should be rewarded for what they do.
What's wrong is the system was put in place a long time ago, and the powers that be don't have a clue about the underground music industry - which has evolved a hell of a lot in a short space of time.
Moreover, the big record labels couldn't give a flying f*ck, because they get this royalty money anyway, because they put out the tunes getting played on TV, on the radio, and in the big shitty cheese clubs. If they weren't getting their fair share you could bet your ass they'd be kicking up a hell of a stink.
However, the real losers here are the small labels and producers who just aren't getting the piece of the pie that they so badly deserve. Unfortunetly, they are often in no position to do anything about it. They don't have the legal resources, or (even worse) are ignorant to the situation.
You get the odd exception to the rule. For example: Andy C, I believe, is very dilligent about compiling lists of what he plays every time he plays - in order to make sure that at least some of the royalty money gets into the hands of the people making the tunes.
I for one, however, wouldn't have the first clue who to go submitting playlists to. It's certainly nothing I've ever been told about by any venue I've ever played at.
On the flipside, I haven't ever felt compelled to register with PRS, despite having a couple of tunes out on vinyl. I seem to remember someone (Glenn Wilson maybe?) on here saying he was told there was no point registering with PRS unless you've had a top 40 hit.
Whether this is true or merely an example of the poor quality information that gets passed out on the subject is debateable - but the point is that no-one seems very clear on how this is all actually supposed to work.
3. How do you feel you as a producer or DJ fits into this system of payments?
I would gladly write down a list of each of the records I play at the club each month, if I knew for a fact that it meant that the producers and labels involved would get a small cut of the license fees collected by PRS, because god knows they deserve it more than Britney f*cking does.
Likewise, I'd happily join PRS if I had more records being put out.
Unfortunately, at the moment, the system just isn't transparent enough - and to be honest I think it could do with a total overhaul in the light of the way that the music industry has developed.
...
This of course, all before you start getting on to the kind of bollocks they're trying to put in place to retroactively legislate for digital DJs, as I've posted about previously. Yet another example of music and arts ignorant pen pushers trying to legislate for something they don't understand.
...
Anyway, rant over.
More excellent points from Techmouse, he has pretty much covered what my problems are with the system of payments.
The next logical step is for more people to add their two penneth worth to the discussion. Im talking about all those who DJ or have had releases here. PLEASE contribute - your opinion matters!
I would also like to be able to talk with someone from the PRS, the PPL or the MCPS to see what they think about the current problem.
And Mark is right - the information available to people regarding the PRS , although transparent feels and sounds for from cohesive, it just doesnt speak to me as a producer or a DJ in the underground scene.
I dont know where this will lead, possibly no-where but im willing to give it a go. I wont pretend to speak for everyone, just myself.
TechMouse
28-09-2005, 01:35 PM
P.S. I may not be 100% right, but this is the information I've absorbed from various conversations, and a fairly thorough perusal of the PRS website a while back. Please, anyone, correct me if I'm wrong.
Well, I’m from Canada, so I’m not quite sure if the situation is the same for you guys but...
I do a radio show here on a FM station - 97.5 FM CKDU. The show is called Electric Atlantic. I break the one and a half hour show into three segments - first I play local unsigned electronic music of whatever genre, then my partner Greg plays an electro/electroclash/tech house set then I play a techno set. Here's the kicker - we fill out log sheets specifying exactly what song, who produced it, the label name, if it's a new release or not, etc etc. every day for the show. These log sheets are collected by our radio station, compiled, then the information is sent to the CRTC (Canadian Radio, Television and Telecommunications Commission) who then pay the artists who are registered with them a specific amount per song played. I think its $0.05 or so but it's something at least. There's also a day, CRTC day, where each Canadian song counts for more.
I’m not 100% certain this is how it works, but I'm pretty sure. And if so, I then imagine that pretty much all countries would have their equivalent to the CRTC in Canada and the PRS where you are. Thus the intelligent thing would be for producers who know that their stuff is getting played out - register! I mean, the real strength of underground music is pretty spread out (I wish there was one country where everyone was into good underground music!) so there should be no reason for artists not to tap into all avenues available.
The website for the CRTC is http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/welcome.htm
I personally wouldn't buy mix's off eBay. Surely eBay have some sort of policy against piracy...
I personally wouldn't buy mix's off eBay. Surely eBay have some sort of policy against piracy...
The Divide
01-10-2005, 06:01 PM
Could post about it on this forum too
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/forum.jspa?forumID=107
tocsin
03-10-2005, 04:26 PM
Simple solution guys. If this bothers you so much and you don't think any real action is going to be taken, set up a fake e-bay account and place a $500 bid on the thing. Get a few friends to do different bids and then just don't pay. What's he gonna do? Report you to the authorities for not buying a mix that is not authorized to be sold? If he does, explanation is simple enough. You found out that he was selling something against the artist's wishes.
mindbender
03-10-2005, 11:21 PM
flat out wrong.
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