hmmmmmm

[Tony]

i love breakcore, hard electronica, noize etc.
not really into gabba and hardcore though.
as much as i like to chat about some of this stuff, is this perhaps a little too broad a forum? we (some of us) have always chatted about noize and breakcore in the dark experimental section.

no criticism or anything, just wondering :)

[koma]

no, why not talk about breakcore here? ;)

I:gor - Speedcore vs Breakcore

[anode]

i generally dont like breakcore or certainly not what it has become...but i think it does have a place in this forum so go ahead ;)

[FuK-NuT]

i can see this forum being dutch central to be honest...

wak!

[Tony]

see, a lot of my friends live by breakcore and experimental noize. they dont post here, but if they did i could imagine them being a bit scathing towards genres like hardcore and gabba, but they wouldnt have minded the topics and music that was discussed on the dark experimental thread.

so what is left to talk about on there as well? isnt this forum just a nail in the coffin for that particular section?

[detfella]

but breakcore is broken gabba/hardcore/jungle isn't it?? i even heard shitmat sample toytown!!

[Tony]

a few of its influences might be. but i personally am not into gabba or hardcore, and am not particularly into jungle. i like it but cant afford to buy it, and only the really heavy or very delicate stuff stands out to me.

breakcore is what is says, breakbeats taken to the extreme. you could do a breakcore track that could ignore all of those influences.

[JohnnySideways]

well if you dont wanna talk about it here do it in the other forum...but all noizy stuff get chatted about here...i personally dont like a lot of the musuc that gets discussed here...so i just ignore it

[Ben Kidney]

It's all Hardcore based unless you go towards the more 'avant garde/noise' type stuff ie. Merzbow, Navicon Torture Technologies etc...

[tocsin]

i can see this forum being dutch central to be honest...

wak!

I'm not concerned. Most of the DJs or artists that post here neither seem to be dutch or heavilly influenced by what goes on in the Netherlands. Hell, I know I'm not. There's been very little to come out of the Netherlands since 1997 that's moved me at all, with a few exceptions here and there.

[The Teknoist]

i can see this forum being dutch central to be honest...

wak!

i think youve said that before and it blatently hasnt become that. Theres posts on dutch stuff but just as many on more serious kinda music.

[Ben Kidney]

Theres posts on dutch stuff but just as many on more serious kinda music.

Haha...Caught you out there at last man...wink

[tocsin]

i think youve said that before and it blatently hasnt become that. Theres posts on dutch stuff but just as many on more serious kinda music.

I could be wrong. But, with this post here, I think I'm the first person to mention "Bass D and King Matthew." There is not an abundance of discussion surrounding the formulaic dutch cheese at all. This forum has pretty much been dedicated to every other style of cheese. ;)

[Tony]

ha haa, what about gorgonzola, could do with a bit of that.

and the mention of 'its all hardcore', hmmmm.

hardcore as a descriptive term, YES. hardcore as derivative of the music genre, NO.
agree?

[djfurness]

its called the core forum....does it matter what type of core were talkin about?!

[Ben Kidney]

ha haa, what about gorgonzola, could do with a bit of that.

and the mention of 'its all hardcore', hmmmm.

hardcore as a descriptive term, YES. hardcore as derivative of the music genre, NO.
agree?

Yeah, I see what you're saying, it is a generalisation as it is all derived from the same vision, but no, it isn't what I would term as hardcore...Hardcore has changed drastically since the late 90's, I mean, what was Hardcore back then (mainly Dutch oriented gabber/speedcore etc...) is far from the fact these days, in comparison to say, Bombardier and La Peste...But still, loosely termed Hardcore, so it should be kept under the same umbrella...

[DJ Enigma]

i can see this forum being dutch central to be honest...

wak!

i think youve said that before and it blatently hasnt become that. Theres posts on dutch stuff but just as many on more serious kinda music.

And I'm no freaking pizzacore freak either and neither a many other regular posters :evil:

[DJ Enigma]

The thing with hardcore and gabber in recent years is that it's influences have been drawn from many other genres of music including breakcore... Hardcore techno / Speedcore has always had it's extreme and experimental elements ever since the early nineties.. The fact that in recent times it's begun to cross over into other genres could be classed as a natural evolution for the sound... To some people it's all hardcore which is defined by the extremity of the sound rather than whether it's 4/4 kicks or heavy breakbeats...

Many more artists like Doormouse, Rotator, Ely Muff, your man Teknoist, Dolphin and even Snares draw influences from hardcore techno... It's the artists who break down the boundaries between genres, you can't stifle that sort of creativity.. This forum is a part of that natural progression.. I don't see anything wrong with it other than the potential for putting people's noises out of joint, but if people want this sort of forum then there is nothing to stop it happening..... Each to their own and all that.

[dj casualty]

here here,well put my friend :clap:

[Ben Kidney]

The thing with hardcore and gabber in recent years is that it's influences have been drawn from many other genres of music including breakcore... Hardcore techno / Speedcore has always had it's extreme and experimental elements ever since the early nineties.. The fact that in recent times it's begun to cross over into other genres could be classed as a natural evolution for the sound... To some people it's all hardcore which is defined by the extremity of the sound rather than whether it's 4/4 kicks or heavy breakbeats...

Many more artists like Doormouse, Rotator, Ely Muff, your man Teknoist, Dolphin and even Snares draw influences from hardcore techno... It's the artists who break down the boundaries between genres, you can't stifle that sort of creativity.. This forum is a part of that natural progression.. I don't see anything wrong with it other than the potential for putting people's noises out of joint, but if people want this sort of forum then there is nothing to stop it happening..... Each to their own and all that.

But Hardcore Techno and Speedcore simply hasn't progressed, the variations have, which would be classed as Breakcore in my book...

[Ben Kidney]

And even that has stopped to move anywhere from what I'm seeing these days...I mean, shouldn't the days of Amen breaks and distorted kicks make way for other influences??? I hear them here and there, but only occasionally, people seem to opt for the tried and tested too much, even V. Snares has with his Meathole...And he used to push those boundaries like no other...

[The Teknoist]

And even that has stopped to move anywhere from what I'm seeing these days...I mean, shouldn't the days of Amen breaks and distorted kicks make way for other influences??? I hear them here and there, but only occasionally, people seem to opt for the tried and tested too much, even V. Snares has with his Meathole...And he used to push those boundaries like no other...

you cant expect boundaries to be broken constantly though Sid, thats expecting alot from people.. its easier said than done, i mean tbf people make music because they love making it (the majority anyway) and not to constantly please everyone. Pushing boundaries is something youd always like to do but isnt always possible and sticking with one thing for a while isnt necassaraly bad aslong as you dont do that forever.

Every artist is forever learning with every key stroke and pushing boundaries is a pretty special thing to do, something most artists dont do and dont even try to do... most of the time is jst expression or experimentation.

As i said though people make music because they love the process and not with the idea of pushing a scene or a genre as their 1st priority.

where can breakcore/hardcore go from here? Im asking this as a question to everyone.. yeh the amens been hammered and most is pretty samey in a way sort of... still some good music though.

Instead of saying people arent pushing boundaries, why not try and do it yourselves? :)

[DJ Enigma]

Yeh i mean regardless of whether boundaries are still being pushed or not it does not necessarily make it any the less interesting to listen to and enjoy... Pushing boundaries constantly is not a necessity in my opinion anyway....

Mike sums it up best by saying it's the artists expression of doing something love most, i reckon that counts for a lot, where good imaginative music is concerned..

Can the boundaries truly be pushed anymore? It's got to the stage where everything is getting mashed with everything else, so have we reached the logical conclusion where now artists are recycling sounds that were popular 10 years ago? Certainly artists in the same vein as Shitmat have found a niche there.

I think as long as people are being creative in their manipulation of sounds and the exploitation of technology there'll still be interesting and enjoyable music around, that's not necessarily boundry pushing and does not intend to be. Whichever way I look at it, if it's interesting then it's still progression in one form or another...

[Ben Kidney]

where can breakcore/hardcore go from here?

Man, there's influence everywhere, something a little different from what we have now would be nice...I mean check out artists such as Blaerg or, let's see, you and Greg, you've got the right idea IMO, V.Snares with his 'Hungarian Pidgeon E.P.' (as you call it) was the way that I think things should go, an amalgamation of styles, use of maybe, classical/neo classical connotations, I mean, 'Core could be sooo much, the contrast between beautiful and the harsh simply hasn't been explored enough I don't think...


Instead of saying people arent pushing boundaries, why not try and do it yourselves?

If only I could man, I don't get time to breathe let alone sit in front of a computer making tracks, I'm lucky if I can go on my decks once a week...I try though, I have a set, sat here waiting for me to record it, which IMO pushes the boundaries, in that the style/structure/variation in genres, completely differs to what we normally hear within our scene...

[Mike sums it up best by saying it's the artists expression of doing something love most[/quote]

That's all well and good and I agree that if that was the case, it wouyld be cool, but I feel that most 'Core these days lacks that heart and soul, it doesn't seem to me that they are 'doing it for the love of it'...Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm too pessimistic but thyere's not that much out there that floats your boat , so to speak...I mean, come on, how much stuff have you bought lately, that you've thought, 'yeah, that's ****ing sweet man'???' Most' of the stuff I've heard that makes me feel that way is a few years old now, barring the odd release here and there....

[DJ Enigma]

That's all well and good and I agree that if that was the case, it wouyld be cool, but I feel that most 'Core these days lacks that heart and soul, it doesn't seem to me that they are 'doing it for the love of it'...Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm too pessimistic but thyere's not that much out there that floats your boat , so to speak...I mean, come on, how much stuff have you bought lately, that you've thought, 'yeah, that's **** sweet man'???' Most' of the stuff I've heard that makes me feel that way is a few years old now, barring the odd release here and there....

I'd agree with you that a lot of stuff lacks any kind of creativity but i do still hear enough to keep me more than interested....Stuff that gets my adrenalin going.. Does hardcore need heart and soul to be good? Many tracks i've enjoyed over the years express pure aggression and a mind ****.... It's all down to personal taste, what floats my boat may not necessarily float yours and vice versa.. I don't always look for heart or soul in music.. Particularly in 'core, to me i dig the construction of the patterns at a more mechanical level..

[Ben Kidney]

Does hardcore need heart and soul to be good?

It wouldn't be music if there wasn't...You could even replace that with 'Time and Effort'...Same difference, I absolutely recognise technical ability here as well...You got any recommendations then??? I'd like to hear some goooood sheeeet man...

[DJ Enigma]

Maybe i'm just an emotionless stone then :lol:

Dude, you're the man who listens to something new and totally obscure at least 5 times more often than me!!! How the hell do you get time?!!? There was a time around 6 months ago where i was on top of what was coming out but that was purely down to listening to my iPod for around 6 hours a day at work... That shit simply hasn't been possible since....

Roll on the time when i'll be working from home......

[Ben Kidney]

Haha...You need a soundtrack to everything man...

[DJ Enigma]

My current daily sound track is the office drawl.. Keyboards getting clattered, people talking, sneezing, blowing their noses, gossiping, moaning... Blah, it's soul destroying stuff... Not for much longer.

[Ben Kidney]

Ouch, sounds like it man...I much prefer to drown out the harsh realities with some good music man, college is worst, you've got all the clique'y, angsty teens mithering you with their bullshit man, I cannae stand it, trying to get me involved with their petty bickerings...Bah, give me my MP3 player anyday...

[JohnnySideways]

It's got to the stage where everything is getting mashed with everything else, so have we reached the logical conclusion where now artists are recycling sounds that were popular 10 years ago?

IMO thats how new forms are discovered...**** i mean its all rock n roll or blues if ya dont believe that! things hit peaks and lulls and then styles merge and new sounds come out of that...
i used to make tekno/acid stuff all day n every day...then got bored bored bored with the london sound and mafia style domination...anyone doin anything different from the usual SUF lot jus didnt get a chance...my first record was knocked back by various distributers because it was "too different"...WTF!!! so i got more into the hardkore/spiraltekno scene/sound where your allowed to do what the **** you like (maybe some dont...but ya get my point)..and now just allow myself to write wotever the **** i like...seems to go down better..and i enjoy wot i do again


My current daily sound track is the office drawl.. Keyboards getting clattered, people talking, sneezing, blowing their noses, gossiping, moaning... Blah, it's soul destroying stuff... Not for much longer.

stick some beats behind that fella...could be the new sound innit :lol: