calling all producers-hardware vs software

[el salvador]

hardware vs software.
which way you guys think is right way to start the studio. of course i must have the computer, but which work best to make the correct sounding music :?:

[rhythmtech]

whatever suits your wallet and working space... this is an arguement that'll go on forever but the most common answer is pick the best of both worlds.

[eyeswithoutaface]

Seriously someone please lock this before i go mentally off the scale, not the hardware vs software thing AGAIN!!!!!!!!

:shock: :headache: :bash: :bash: :bash: :protest: :stop: :help: :help: :evil: :mashed: :wtf: :bash:

[rhythmtech]

but that doesn't answer his question.. lets get into the WHOLE thing again! :twisted:

[eyeswithoutaface]

he should do a search, in 3 years on this board this topic has come up an unbelievable amount of times

[el salvador]

Seriously someone please lock this before i go mentally off the scale, not the hardware vs software thing AGAIN!!!!!!!!

:shock: :headache: :bash: :bash: :bash: :protest: :stop: :help: :help: :evil: :mashed: :wtf: :bash:

not very constructive comment to help somebody who has not the experience, and who dare ask the people for guidance. can we be positive please.
i am a student from overseas who like to dj and am classically trained in guitar.

[rhythmtech]

try the production forum.. you'll get a much better response in there. but like eyeswithoutaface said, use the search option because the hardware/software thing has been done to death.

[audioinjection]

this should be in the techno production forums

[el salvador]

hey maybe i buy a book if people are hostile. things are very different here

[el salvador]

where is the passion?

[g]

software is the (relatively) easier and (certainly) more cost effective route. try reason or something obvious and see if the shoe fits in general. later you can make a call re. hardware if you personally decide it's something you want to move into.

[rhythmtech]

where is the passion?

its been beaten out of us by years of 909 abuse :cry:

[audioinjection]

hey maybe i buy a book if people are hostile. things are very different here

its not that people are hostile, its just that this topic has been discussed and argued many times.....its more of a preference between the two, you'll basically have to try both worlds in order to find out which you like best ;)

[eyeswithoutaface]

where is the passion? what? it's got nothing to do with passion, the fact that pretty much all the core users on here are actively making and putting their music out is passion enough.

It basically boils down to research. We've all had to do it so will you. There's none of this "not had the experience and dare ask for guidance" rubbish, we've all been at the stage of starting out, but you were'nt asking for guidance. You were instigating the age old hardware/software debate. Which has been done on here hundreds of times. Quite literaly aswell.

If your new then surely its good for yourself to take a minute and check what forums are for what, i know its certainly what i do whenever i join a new board

[The Overfiend]

No need to knock the new guy Scott.
We were all at his point at one time or the other, and since he has been here he has sparked many an intelligent response.
More so than many of us, I say we nuture his curiosity with intelligible conversation and keep a new enthusiastic member aboard,
Welcome to the board primo. I choose software because it is easier manipulated. But there is something about hardwares analog sounds that is visceral and obvious in certain good techno. Play around with both find your niche. No one starts off Speedy J. Great Enthusiasm man!

[el salvador]

i wanted to come study here more than other places becuse i am so excited by the uk techno. i thought the atmosphere would be so absorbing with a passion for the music, and i also was thinking that your scene would be much bigger, even i know it is underground
i have been amember of this forum for some time now,and have read your words since the summer, but now my english is getting better, i really wanted to talk with the peoples on the forum to find out more. maybe i should join a new board, and wish those who really deserve it the best wishes for your music. adios

[rhythmtech]

ouch.

[rhythmtech]

wasn't me!

[stjohn]

come study here in Ireland, we love the hardware software debate!!!!!!!!!!!

[rhythmtech]

stjohn. you wanna get together and do a track?

[eyeswithoutaface]

no one bashed him get over it people ****in hell you girls ;)

everyones sitting there thinking "oh **** not the hardware vs software thing again" its just im the only one who doesnt give a toss enough to say "hey, have a little dig around too new guy" because that will help him ultimately ALOT more than this singular thread is going to! the guy wants knowledge, he's sitting ontop of a massive, untapped (for him) wealth about hardware and software, i was just bluntly telling him how to go about it. Think about it guys.

its not about what "level" anyones at. It's about just doing a bit of digging around too as well as the questions

[rhythmtech]

no one bashed him get over it people **** hell you girls ;)

everyones sitting there thinking "oh **** not the hardware vs software thing again" its just im the only one who doesnt give a toss enough to say "hey, have a little dig around too new guy" because that will help him ultimately ALOT more than this singular thread is going to! the guy wants knowledge, he's sitting ontop of a massive, untapped (for him) wealth about hardware and software, i was just bluntly telling him how to go about it. Think about it guys.

its not about what "level" anyones at. It's about just doing a bit of digging around too as well as the questions

you smell

[SlavikSvensk]

why all the fuss here? if you don't like the topic, don't reply.

to answer the question...i think both are limiting, but both have particualr advantages. i use software now because of space issues.

[stjohn]

stjohn. you wanna get together and do a track?

defo yea... some time over the Xmas maybe?
hardware or software tho thats the big qs!!! i just ordered a korg electribe SX. but i canl bring Microsoft Paint too!

[rhythmtech]

kool. i've got a crack copy of winzip and a black&decker powersaw... we're sorted!

[eyeswithoutaface]

there's no fuss Slavik, god if you people think that's fuss then how do you manage in real life? ;)

ok ok ok, babies put your dummies back, here goes.... i have no preference, i like using software and i like using hardware, the only constraint for me is financially i cant afford hardware like i wish i could, so software it is. That's not to say i dont pay for my software, if im using something that's going into a record then its paid for these days

[rhythmtech]

there's no fuss Slavik, god if you people think that's fuss then how do you manage in real life? ;)

ok ok ok, babies put your dummies back, here goes.... i have no preference, i like using software and i like using hardware, the only constraint for me is financially i cant afford hardware like i wish i could, so software it is. That's not to say i dont pay for my software, if im using something that's going into a record then its paid for these days

you still smell

[eyeswithoutaface]

i've never once said on here that i dont smell mate, id be ever slightly worried if i didnt smell of something, regardless of what that something is or isnt

[dirty_bass]

you all have cooties

[The Overfiend]

i wanted to come study here more than other places becuse i am so excited by the uk techno. i thought the atmosphere would be so absorbing with a passion for the music, and i also was thinking that your scene would be much bigger, even i know it is underground
i have been amember of this forum for some time now,and have read your words since the summer, but now my english is getting better, i really wanted to talk with the peoples on the forum to find out more. maybe i should join a new board, and wish those who really deserve it the best wishes for your music. adios

Please stick around.

[rhythmtech]

you all have cooties

steve just bought that live album you released.. farkin great, only cost me 2 euros and a biscuit on ebay!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[stjohn]

yea man... the Techno Production Forum has been a life saver to me over the last year!!! hang around

[g]

i wanted to come study here more than other places becuse i am so excited by the uk techno. i thought the atmosphere would be so absorbing with a passion for the music, and i also was thinking that your scene would be much bigger, even i know it is underground
i have been amember of this forum for some time now,and have read your words since the summer, but now my english is getting better, i really wanted to talk with the peoples on the forum to find out more. maybe i should join a new board, and wish those who really deserve it the best wishes for your music. adios

Please stick around.
seconded. however, please understand that in the Techno Production Forum you are much more likely to get a cohesive response.

and you all smell.

[rhythmtech]

i wanted to come study here more than other places becuse i am so excited by the uk techno. i thought the atmosphere would be so absorbing with a passion for the music, and i also was thinking that your scene would be much bigger, even i know it is underground
i have been amember of this forum for some time now,and have read your words since the summer, but now my english is getting better, i really wanted to talk with the peoples on the forum to find out more. maybe i should join a new board, and wish those who really deserve it the best wishes for your music. adios

Please stick around.
seconded. however, please understand that in the Techno Production Forum you are much more likely to get a cohesive response.

and you all smell.

except for me... well except for the smell of lovliness!

[dirty_bass]

Lets all get together and have a big fight.

[rhythmtech]

Lets all get together and have a big fight.

yeah we should.. kick the **** outta each other for the laugh... in custard!

[stjohn]

you are all approaching the festive threshold of pink and smirnoff ice sharpish

[dan the acid man]

Lets all get together and have a big fight.

hang on, wait until somebody has bought me a slab of toffee for christmas with a hammer




anyway, hello el salvador, im sure you can understand some peoples frustrations at seeing the same topics come up for discussion over and over and over again, i know i for one gave out a sigh of...........oh nooooooo, not the hardware v software debate again.

but to answer your question, use what you feel is best for you, experiment, try things out, and what ever you enjoy the most, or feel most comfortable wth, use it.


now who's gonna buy me some toffee ?

[rhythmtech]

consider it done batfink!

[el salvador]

we just have come back from the pub with my girlfriends to show them how it is here.
dont make war, make music! and i have thought to use hardware and software just to try and stop you guys from the argue. in my home town by now you would hear sounds from automatic weapons, but now we are going to the bed to make love :love:

[dan the acid man]

consider it done batfink!

thanks :cool: :lol:

[rhythmtech]

we just have come back from the pub with my girlfriends to show them how it is here.
dont make war, make music! and i have thought to use hardware and software just to try and stop you guys from the argue. in my home town by now you would hear sounds from automatic weapons, but now we are going to the bed to make love :love:

that kinda sums it up... WE'RE ALL A BUNCH OF FCUKING LOSERS THAT SHOULD BE MAKING LOVE TO OUR SIGNIFICANT OTHERS.

el salvador.. you are the man!

[dan the acid man]

we just have come back from the pub with my girlfriends to show them how it is here.
dont make war, make music! and i have thought to use hardware and software just to try and stop you guys from the argue. in my home town by now you would hear sounds from automatic weapons, but now we are going to the bed to make love :love:

haha, too much info though :lol:

[stjohn]

columbian birds..............nuff said

[rhythmtech]

safe.

[stjohn]

gravy

[rhythmtech]

chicken?

[dan the acid man]

rice and peas

[audioinjection]

arroz con pollo

[stjohn]

bit o Irish stew for **** sake!

[SlavikSvensk]

there's no fuss Slavik, god if you people think that's fuss then how do you manage in real life? ;)


quite well, my sometimes-ornery friend ;)

but fuss, well, i think it's a fairly accurate way to describe 4 pages of comments not on the topic but on whether the topic should be a topic... :)

[g]

holy shit. this thread is 4 pages long.

[SlavikSvensk]

in my home town by now you would hear sounds from automatic weapons

ah, detroit...beautiful town... ;)

[stjohn]

holy shit. this thread is 4 pages long.

there should be nonsense warnings for people who will read this boring tripe in the morining, as i have done countless times, especting something interesting.

but if they were especting anything worthwhile in the ol' H vs S debate they deserve it i spose

[dirty_bass]

Enough of the tree hugging, let`s get ginned up and brawl.
http://members.shaw.ca/Bruiser_Brody/colon2.jpg

[audioinjection]

lol

[The Overfiend]

Dude if I was in Columbia
I'd be Hopped up on the obvious
Looking for some loving my damn self.
On la playa no en el monte

[Jay Pace]

In the spirit of solidarity with our Colombian friend I'm going to have a wank.

With you all the way, brother

[dan the acid man]

In the spirit of solidarity with our Colombian friend I'm going to have a wank.

With you all the way, brother

hahaha :clap:

[The Divide]

I love this debate, stick it up in the production forum!


Seriously someone please lock this before i go mentally off the scale, not the hardware vs software thing AGAIN!!!!!!!

http://www.funkist.ca/images/products/purses/daisy%20handbag.jpg

http://www.thedivide.co.uk/images/SCOTT%20GRAVE1.jpg

[dirty_bass]

I love this debate, stick it up in the production forum!


Seriously someone please lock this before i go mentally off the scale, not the hardware vs software thing AGAIN!!!!!!!

http://www.funkist.ca/images/products/purses/daisy%20handbag.jpg

http://www.thedivide.co.uk/images/SCOTT%20GRAVE1.jpg

Oh shit, haha, I laughed out loud for that one.

[eyeswithoutaface]

the funniest thing is ive known you guys about 4 years and you dont even know how to spell my name

[dan the acid man]

its gray with an a

[davethedrummer]

ok you have a sheet of 18mm plywood

and you want to cut it perfectly in half

do you use a circular saw?

or a rusty old handsaw?

easy really isnt it?

[dirty_bass]

ok you have a sheet of 18mm plywood

and you want to cut it perfectly in half

do you use a circular saw?

or a rusty old handsaw?

easy really isnt it?

I`d use a ****ing axe.

[SlavikSvensk]

i'd use a spoon. or a spork!

[davethedrummer]

ok you have a sheet of 18mm plywood

and you want to cut it perfectly in half

do you use a circular saw?

or a rusty old handsaw?

easy really isnt it?

I`d use a **** axe.

i see
playing devils avocado again are we?

[dirty_bass]

ok you have a sheet of 18mm plywood

and you want to cut it perfectly in half

do you use a circular saw?

or a rusty old handsaw?

easy really isnt it?

I`d use a **** axe.

i see
playing devils avocado again are we?

Nope, I just enjoy the swing of a good axe.
Or a sledgehammer.
Ah the good old days.
No door too strong no lock too tough.

[The Divide]

You would make a good axe salesman

[el salvador]

hey i have got a virus today, (and is nothing to do with the girls last night bfore you ask).
hardware 1 software 0
but it is still early in the game

[MARKEG]

hardware all the way (but thank god for software)

it's like anything really. if you wannna be different, you don't use the same tools as the next man.

it's why i'm now excited about playing pure sets of vinyl and it's also why although i love software to DEATH. i get 20 times more excited when i buy a new piece of hardware than when i download a new plugin torrent. and you know what? certain hardware DOES sound better than any plugin out there. you must know the right manufacturer, just like you know that waves comp is better than mda comp.

software has revolutionised music but if you're serious about production and making it sound good, to me there is no issue. hardware is better.

[MARKEG]

and i also want to say a massive hi to el salvador.

eyes, imo, we're not hear to run one of those computer geek forums where everyone tells ppl 'do a search you twat'. i'm a member of alot of these type of places and it creates this elitist attitude within the long term members and admin. oh come on, we don't want that here do we? what's great about this place is we all help each other out. eyes i see your point totally but we're hear to help each other.. perhaps you could have worded your reply a little nicer?

but el, you reallly seem like you're totally on our level. we need more ppl like you around. your enthusiasm is just brilliant.

welcome to the forums mate.

[MARKEG]

and eyes, you're brillant too ;) xxxx hehehe

[rhythmtech]

its like a big f**kin love in round here... farkin hippies!

[eyeswithoutaface]

i actually did stepback on my comments and i never called him a twat Mark

[The Divide]

and i also want to say a massive hi to el salvador.

eyes, imo, we're not hear to run one of those computer geek forums where everyone tells ppl 'do a search you twat'. i'm a member of alot of these type of places and it creates this elitist attitude within the long term members and admin. oh come on,.

Well said :clap:

[eyeswithoutaface]

yeah sorry i was wrong in my opinion, better make sure i never express it again!

me bad

[lunatrick]

it's easy to get jaded..imagine how the seasoned user felt when you first asked ' how it does it work?' to keep on topic i don't think it matters as long as it sounds good. period. if you put afx or liam howlett in front of reason compared to average joe, it would sound miles better. why is that? talent...pure and simple. hawtin - pioneer - has just released a 5.1 surround sound mix - did he make that using an atari, 909 and a mackie desk..did he f*k. embrace the future....you may as well - it's happening anyway. I'd like a 909 or a juno 106, but in reality that gear hasn't been manufactured for over a decade......I used to have an akai sampler, but soundforge came along, and it pissed me off that some hookie software could do something better than something I'd paid a thousand quid for...but hey thats life..........

[dirty_bass]

ok, well to answer the question in the briefest way possible.
Look at 2 factors.
time
and money
If you have a lot of money to throw around, and a lot of time to invest in learning all the equipment as well as production technique, then get hardware and software. But a decent mixing desk and a reasonable plethora of keyboards and samplers, means a lot of money and a lot of learning time, but good end product.

Software is cheaper, comparatively, although a high power pc, good nearfields, and soundcard are always necessary first. Due to the system being all kinda together, it`s probably got a quicker learning curve too. But you don`t get as much cool stuff to look at, and you need midi controllers to get nobs to tweek.
Results wise, if you know what you are doing, both are good.

These days, I wouold say go software. As I suspect you want quicker results.

[el salvador]

i am learning a lot here. thank you guys

[TechMouse]

Go software. You'll be able to get up & running quickish, and you can always add in hardware later on.

[Jay Pace]

Get a copy of Reason.

Then maybe think about buying the virtual machines that you use the most.

[el salvador]

Get a copy of Reason.

Then maybe think about buying the virtual machines that you use the most.

hey thanks jay. today i have buy this. i have reason 2. i like how it all looks like hardware and you plug it in with the cables. i love the rex player and the drum machine :love: the score now for me is................. hardware 1 software 1....and the game is on guys :lol:

[massplanck]

buy hardware. using software is old fashoined these days.

[el salvador]

buy hardware. using software is old fashoined these days.

i have just buy a virus too :wicked:

[g]

Get a copy of Reason.

Then maybe think about buying the virtual machines that you use the most.

hey thanks jay. today i have buy this. i have reason 2. i like how it all looks like hardware and you plug it in with the cables. i love the rex player and the drum machine :love: the score now for me is................. hardware 1 software 1....and the game is on guys :lol:
oh sure, thank him. that's what i said on page 1 of this thread. =]

[el salvador]

you are all worthy of much thanks here guys now. :love:

[SlavikSvensk]

well for me it's still hardware 7-software-4, but i don't use any of the hardware anymore as i'm married and live in a 1bdr apartment, so space is an issue...

[TechMouse]

and live in a 1bdr apartment, so space is an issue...
One of the main reasons I've moved! I sympathise dude...

Plus my girlfriend is an art student, and requires MASSIVE amounts of space to do work.

[grain]

El Salvador - WELCOME TO BLACKOUT AUDIO !!!

You have a computer and you have Reason.. Thats a great start anyway.

As far as needing anything else, I would recommend a piece of hardware. A drum machine would be a great investment if you can afford it. If it can sample, all the better... Forget about the old drum-machines you hear about like Rolands' 808 and 909- these machines were ground-breaking in thier day but the design has been improved immensely since then. You should be able to buy a modern machine (often called a 'groove box') that will have hundreds of drum sounds and synth sounds and even sampling capability for as little as 220 euro for korg's ER-1 MK II (no sampling though) and in fact you could find Yamaha's RM1x on ebay for about the same money (I have one of these and I couldn't recommend it enough)
If you had a bit more money than that, Korg's Electribe SX for 640 euro would be a sound choice, giving you sampling as well as drums and synth, and up the market again, for 830 euros, AKAI's MPC1000 would be an excellent investment.

All of these machines will link into your software set-up, for example you can synchronise Reason to any of those drum-machines mentioned... but the beauty of a piece of self-sufficient drum sequencer is:

You really get to KNOW and become familiar with the DEDICATED controls
You will be able to PLAY your beats and patterns in an EXPRESSIVE way
You can sit it on your lap with a set of headphones
Hardware automatically SOUNDS better than sofware... with software it takes alot of WORK with eq and processing to get as good as sound
You may find that you LISTEN more attentively to your beats , as you aren't looking at a screen all the time
You will eventually become ONE with your machine, and take over the world!!!!

[stjohn]

and take over the world!!!!

so what are we doing tonight????

same thing we do everynight!



......

[stjohn]

and take over the world!!!!

so what are we doing tonight Grain????

same thing we do everynight!



......

[g]

El Salvador - WELCOME TO BLACKOUT AUDIO !!!

You have a computer and you have Reason.. Thats a great start anyway.

As far as needing anything else, I would recommend a piece of hardware. A drum machine would be a great investment if you can afford it. If it can sample, all the better... Forget about the old drum-machines you hear about like Rolands' 808 and 909- these machines were ground-breaking in thier day but the design has been improved immensely since then. You should be able to buy a modern machine (often called a 'groove box') that will have hundreds of drum sounds and synth sounds and even sampling capability for as little as 220 euro for korg's ER-1 MK II (no sampling though) and in fact you could find Yamaha's RM1x on ebay for about the same money (I have one of these and I couldn't recommend it enough)
If you had a bit more money than that, Korg's Electribe SX for 640 euro would be a sound choice, giving you sampling as well as drums and synth, and up the market again, for 830 euros, AKAI's MPC1000 would be an excellent investment.

All of these machines will link into your software set-up, for example you can synchronise Reason to any of those drum-machines mentioned... but the beauty of a piece of self-sufficient drum sequencer is:

You really get to KNOW and become familiar with the DEDICATED controls
You will be able to PLAY your beats and patterns in an EXPRESSIVE way
You can sit it on your lap with a set of headphones
Hardware automatically SOUNDS better than sofware... with software it takes alot of WORK with eq and processing to get as good as sound
You may find that you LISTEN more attentively to your beats , as you aren't looking at a screen all the time
You will eventually become ONE with your machine, and take over the world!!!!
- the RM1x recommendation is solid if you're looking for a sequencer only. the onboard sounds on that thing are terrible. as a dedicated seq, it's great.

- design has been improved immensely since the 808/909? most of what you are recommending to him directly mimics the x0x interface. and while the x0x sequencer is still one of the most intuitive ways to work ever created, people don't buy those machines now for the design -- they buy them for the sound.

You really get to KNOW and become familiar with the DEDICATED controls -- the same can be achieved with a midi controller and consistent mappings.

You will be able to PLAY your beats and patterns in an EXPRESSIVE way -- ditto. there are plenty of x0x or pad-based controllers or sequencers that allow you to Play a piece of software.

Hardware automatically SOUNDS better than sofware... with software it takes alot of WORK with eq and processing to get as good as sound -- that may have been true a few years ago but now that is complete nonsense. don't forget that, save the 808/909, the things are you recommending are nothing but music computers with dedicated interfaces. the computing power of PCs and the code quality of virtual instruments has gotten to the point where music software is no longer a second class citizen when it comes to sound.

You may find that you LISTEN more attentively to your beats , as you aren't looking at a screen all the time -- that can certainly be true, however an excellent piece of advice when you get comfortable with software is TURN OFF THE MONITOR.

i'm not arguing categorically against hardware. a lot of the things that have been said in this thread are spot on. and even as music software continues to get better and better in some respects there will never be a replacement for a buggy, quirky, unpredictable analogue synth -- unless they start coding apps to do random things and shock you every once in a while. but for someone starting out, he should get a realistic idea of what's out there. then he can move into hardware simply because he decides he wants to.

[el salvador]

El Salvador - WELCOME TO BLACKOUT AUDIO !!!

You have a computer and you have Reason.. Thats a great start anyway.

As far as needing anything else, I would recommend a piece of hardware. A drum machine would be a great investment if you can afford it. If it can sample, all the better... Forget about the old drum-machines you hear about like Rolands' 808 and 909- these machines were ground-breaking in thier day but the design has been improved immensely since then. You should be able to buy a modern machine (often called a 'groove box') that will have hundreds of drum sounds and synth sounds and even sampling capability for as little as 220 euro for korg's ER-1 MK II (no sampling though) and in fact you could find Yamaha's RM1x on ebay for about the same money (I have one of these and I couldn't recommend it enough)
If you had a bit more money than that, Korg's Electribe SX for 640 euro would be a sound choice, giving you sampling as well as drums and synth, and up the market again, for 830 euros, AKAI's MPC1000 would be an excellent investment.

All of these machines will link into your software set-up, for example you can synchronise Reason to any of those drum-machines mentioned... but the beauty of a piece of self-sufficient drum sequencer is:

You really get to KNOW and become familiar with the DEDICATED controls
You will be able to PLAY your beats and patterns in an EXPRESSIVE way
You can sit it on your lap with a set of headphones
Hardware automatically SOUNDS better than sofware... with software it takes alot of WORK with eq and processing to get as good as sound
You may find that you LISTEN more attentively to your beats , as you aren't looking at a screen all the time
You will eventually become ONE with your machine, and take over the world!!!!
- the RM1x recommendation is solid if you're looking for a sequencer only. the onboard sounds on that thing are terrible. as a dedicated seq, it's great.

- design has been improved immensely since the 808/909? most of what you are recommending to him directly mimics the x0x interface. and while the x0x sequencer is still one of the most intuitive ways to work ever created, people don't buy those machines now for the design -- they buy them for the sound.

You really get to KNOW and become familiar with the DEDICATED controls -- the same can be achieved with a midi controller and consistent mappings.

You will be able to PLAY your beats and patterns in an EXPRESSIVE way -- ditto. there are plenty of x0x or pad-based controllers or sequencers that allow you to Play a piece of software.

Hardware automatically SOUNDS better than sofware... with software it takes alot of WORK with eq and processing to get as good as sound -- that may have been true a few years ago but now that is complete nonsense. don't forget that, save the 808/909, the things are you recommending are nothing but music computers with dedicated interfaces. the computing power of PCs and the code quality of virtual instruments has gotten to the point where music software is no longer a second class citizen when it comes to sound.

You may find that you LISTEN more attentively to your beats , as you aren't looking at a screen all the time -- that can certainly be true, however an excellent piece of advice when you get comfortable with software is TURN OFF THE MONITOR.

i'm not arguing categorically against hardware. a lot of the things that have been said in this thread are spot on. and even as music software continues to get better and better in some respects there will never be a replacement for a buggy, quirky, unpredictable analogue synth -- unless they start coding apps to do random things and shock you every once in a while. but for someone starting out, he should get a realistic idea of what's out there. then he can move into hardware simply because he decides he wants to.

cool g, i'm feeling that. thanks again

[grain]

- the RM1x recommendation is solid if you're looking for a sequencer only. the onboard sounds on that thing are terrible. as a dedicated seq, it's great.



I have to dissagree with you there G, the onboard sounds are top notch. And theres enough modelling capabilities to turn any of the run of the mill sounds into something special :tongue:


no, don't get me wrong... theres software there that can do everything, and sound amazing at the same time... ableton Live, NI Reaktor (all Native Intstuments software), Reason.. between those programs alone, or any of them on thier own even, no doubt you could make quality tracks... But the man has a computer and a copy of reason already... no doubt he'll work away with that, but if he's asking for recommendations, I'm just recommending a hardware alternative, that will enrich his already powerful solution (the PC and software)..

In fact what the thread was - 'hardware vs software'...
I'd have to say - BOTH... not one or the other - theres no need for them to be exclusive to each other... They should be integrated and abused... together.

as I say, el salvador already has the software.... I just think he'd enjoy a go of some hardware... A nice hardware sequencer is a sound investment .

[g]

ok... I think the sounds on it are terrible.

[grain]

ok... I think the sounds on it are terrible.

:tongue:

Ok, I have to admit, I had to get a compressor to beef the drums up, but if you can't make some quality techno out of 46 drum kits and 654 synth/instrument voices .... well I think thats enough sounds for a lifetime of use and abuse (an TR909 has ONE drumkit, and look at the tracks that were made with that!). Anyway, as you know, you can sequence any synth or sampler with the RM1x on top of using the internal sounds, and there lies the beauty in it...

Maybe you were just playing with the preset patterns g :lol: , you know you have to make your own patterns to really see how good a piece of hardware is!

Plus it can be used as an exellent midi controller...
:shock:

[massplanck]

El Salvador - WELCOME TO BLACKOUT AUDIO !!!

You have a computer and you have Reason.. Thats a great start anyway.

As far as needing anything else, I would recommend a piece of hardware. A drum machine would be a great investment if you can afford it. If it can sample, all the better... Forget about the old drum-machines you hear about like Rolands' 808 and 909- these machines were ground-breaking in thier day but the design has been improved immensely since then. You should be able to buy a modern machine (often called a 'groove box') that will have hundreds of drum sounds and synth sounds and even sampling capability for as little as 220 euro for korg's ER-1 MK II (no sampling though) and in fact you could find Yamaha's RM1x on ebay for about the same money (I have one of these and I couldn't recommend it enough)
If you had a bit more money than that, Korg's Electribe SX for 640 euro would be a sound choice, giving you sampling as well as drums and synth, and up the market again, for 830 euros, AKAI's MPC1000 would be an excellent investment.

All of these machines will link into your software set-up, for example you can synchronise Reason to any of those drum-machines mentioned... but the beauty of a piece of self-sufficient drum sequencer is:

You really get to KNOW and become familiar with the DEDICATED controls
You will be able to PLAY your beats and patterns in an EXPRESSIVE way
You can sit it on your lap with a set of headphones
Hardware automatically SOUNDS better than sofware... with software it takes alot of WORK with eq and processing to get as good as sound
You may find that you LISTEN more attentively to your beats , as you aren't looking at a screen all the time
You will eventually become ONE with your machine, and take over the world!!!!


:clap:

[Jay Pace]

Actually, I have to say that post makes me want to get to know my little 309 better. Its been gathering dust whilst I've been playing with Reaktor...

[g]

ok... I think the sounds on it are terrible.

:tongue:

Ok, I have to admit, I had to get a compressor to beef the drums up, but if you can't make some quality techno out of 46 drum kits and 654 synth/instrument voices .... well I think thats enough sounds for a lifetime of use and abuse (an TR909 has ONE drumkit, and look at the tracks that were made with that!). Anyway, as you know, you can sequence any synth or sampler with the RM1x on top of using the internal sounds, and there lies the beauty in it...

Maybe you were just playing with the preset patterns g :lol: , you know you have to make your own patterns to really see how good a piece of hardware is!

Plus it can be used as an exellent midi controller...
:shock:
fuking hell man, the whole reason i brought it up was because i was saying it is an excellent dedicated sequencer. so no, i wasn't only using presets, and yes, i know what a great piece of midi equipment it is. i said so when this all started. i just think the onboard sounds are garbage.

[dirty_bass]

Me to, as a rule yamaha sounds are really thin and GM sounding, unless it`s on some of their more "analog" sysnthesising stuff.
Of course if you do a lot to it with processing then it can be good.
But then it`s not sounding good, straight out of the hardware, as was the whole argument in the first place.

[holotropik]

For me...
I have never been able to grasp working with sound on a PC. When ReBirth first came out I was given a copy, I loved it. I sat there day and night climbing all over it, going WOW!!
BUT...
The whole time I wished that I could have all the machines in front of me so I could touch them and adjust things two at a time, more quickly and instinctively. So I went out and got me some hardware and have used harware only ever since.....coz I just cant get into using a PC for anything other than recording and mastering Live Jams off the machines.

It is important to not look at the sound on the screen while creating or mastering.....only listen.

I am not against the use of the PC for creativity.....it just doesnt work for me.

[dirty_bass]

I think people use the screen thing as an excuse.
The PC is more acccessable, so it`s easy just to set things up when uninspired.
Hardware is no more intuitive than pc, especially if you have good controllers and such, but when you use hardware there`s more commitment to what you are doing at the time, because it`s such an efort to set everything up.

The point is, neither is better.

Do your thing in whatever way suits you and recognise that the best method for you, is the best method for you, and that`s about it..

[Stella Boy]

and take over the world!!!!

so what are we doing tonight????

same thing we do everynight!



......

:) :clap:

[Jay Pace]

For me...
I have never been able to grasp working with sound on a PC. When ReBirth first came out I was given a copy, I loved it. I sat there day and night climbing all over it, going WOW!!
BUT...
The whole time I wished that I could have all the machines in front of me so I could touch them and adjust things two at a time, more quickly and instinctively. So I went out and got me some hardware and have used harware only ever since.....coz I just cant get into using a PC for anything other than recording and mastering Live Jams off the machines.

It is important to not look at the sound on the screen while creating or mastering.....only listen.

I am not against the use of the PC for creativity.....it just doesnt work for me.

With you there.

But then I bought a midi controller, and that changed everything.

[el salvador]

i am loving all the info here guys. thanks a lot to you all ;)

[imported_admin]

yeah totally not feeling this new guy 'use the search option' thing. come on, i'm sure we've all been newbies before.

we're not a geeky tech site with an exclusive 'club' at the end of the day ;)

let's help each other!

[el salvador]

i think there has been a lot of interesting sayings made here. lots of people have said cool things on a thread that i had started. it may be boring to some, but everyone does not have to be reading this, but i think the reactions here speak for themselves

[Centurian]

Haven't read the thread, but best thing to do to start off (assuming you have a sequncer on your PC) is get a small MIDI port and a MIDI keyboard and download some software as well. THe MIDI port will leave room for expansion if you want to get more hardware, another keyboard, reverb or something.
The keyboard will make producing much quicker and easier, then you can start building up your software and hardware on top of an already operational studio.

Eventually i'd have a PC with Cubase SX & Reason for the sequencing & soundbanks, along with various plug-ins, a Mac with Logic for the compression, bus routing, live recording etc and have it all linked up to a Mackie mixing desk. Well, that's how i was taught anyway, i'm still a bit of a n00b really.

[eyeswithoutaface]

yeah totally not feeling this new guy 'use the search option' thing. come on, i'm sure we've all been newbies before.

we're not a geeky tech site with an exclusive 'club' at the end of the day ;)

let's help each other!

yeah let it lie then man, i apologised and offered my opinion, so lets stay on topic hey?

[eyeswithoutaface]

good point by the way whoever said about the almost underlying feeling that you have to use one or the other exclusively

[Centurian]

Personally, i think some of the hardware just rules, anyone heard of Moog?
Some of the warmest bass lines i've ever heard.

As a producer i'd certainly be looking at using both, the more variation you have in software and hardware the more inventive and creative you can be right?
Each have their own attributes and having the choice of both leaves your creative ability much more open.

Bottom line is you need a decent PC, plug-ins & Keyboard to start imo, then start building your rack mount, get your drum machine, 303 etc etc. For me, that would be my natural progression for building my studio.

[mrbishi]

hey maybe i buy a book if people are hostile. things are very different here

its not that people are hostile, its just that this topic has been discussed and argued many times.....its more of a preference between the two, you'll basically have to try both worlds in order to find out which you like best ;)

Just to play this to death a while longer lmao I must agree with this comment try both its a producers own preference has to what is best to use, personally I think the best of both worlds is the best option a nice midi connection into software. I mean with Reason which looks like hardware anyway you can always rewire it into cubase so with the combination of VSTs and such its limitless to what you can do by what you get your hands on. << Theres a tounge twister and a half

[tocsin]

whatever suits your wallet and working space... this is an arguement that'll go on forever but the most common answer is pick the best of both worlds.

What he said.

[massplanck]

software users smell of poo.

[dirty_bass]

Anyone who uses anything other than a hollow log, a skull, and a thigh bone, doesn`t know the true meaning of music.

[massplanck]

if software is so ****ing great then how come i have yet to see a guitarist up on onstage with a laptop and a copy of virtual guitarist 2.0?

[massplanck]

no offence.

but playing with reason.... wheres the orionality in that. its like 1,000,000 producers having EXACTLY the same figgin studio setup. Baffles me.

Make your own drumkit. Buy some shitty mikes. Record you and your mates beating each other and sucking dogs off througha boss distortion pedal. get em all to buy a drum machine each - create some ckerazy Bidule/Reaktor setup for your inputs - JAM. Modulate off each other.. like, whatever.

Pre packagded off the shelf shit can suck my cock. If you want your music to be inventive your ways and means had better be too.

[massplanck]

CANT WE GET A FRIGGING EDIT BUTTON ALREADY IN HERE MANG?

[Centurian]

lol

[audioinjection]

we're still on this topic? haha

[massplanck]

Also. There is nothing more depressing than someone making music all by themselves in a little room having their little head fried by a cathode ray tube. What a ****ing techno cliche.

Techno was around before pc's & computers & software became the norm and it will still be around when they run their course (WHAT!)

Anyone ever listen to Konono no.1?

[dirty_bass]

cathode ray tube? people still use them?

[dirty_bass]

no offence.

but playing with reason.... wheres the orionality in that. its like 1,000,000 producers having EXACTLY the same figgin studio setup. Baffles me.

Make your own drumkit. Buy some shitty mikes. Record you and your mates beating each other and sucking dogs off througha boss distortion pedal. get em all to buy a drum machine each - create some ckerazy Bidule/Reaktor setup for your inputs - JAM. Modulate off each other.. like, whatever.

Pre packagded off the shelf shit can suck my cock. If you want your music to be inventive your ways and means had better be too.

Inventiveness comes from the mind. Whatever tool you use to get the job done is almost irelevant.

I`ve heard mindless uncreative shit made in the best analog studios available.
I`ve also heard amazing original creative stuff done with really cheesy bog standard software.
Who cares, it`s the mind that is interesting.

[el salvador]

no offence.

but playing with reason.... wheres the orionality in that. its like 1,000,000 producers having EXACTLY the same figgin studio setup. Baffles me.

Make your own drumkit. Buy some shitty mikes. Record you and your mates beating each other and sucking dogs off througha boss distortion pedal. get em all to buy a drum machine each - create some ckerazy Bidule/Reaktor setup for your inputs - JAM. Modulate off each other.. like, whatever.

Pre packagded off the shelf shit can suck my cock. If you want your music to be inventive your ways and means had better be too.

Inventiveness comes from the mind. Whatever tool you use to get the job done is almost irelevant.

I`ve heard mindless uncreative shit made in the best analog studios available.
I`ve also heard amazing original creative stuff done with really cheesy bog standard software.
Who cares, it`s the mind that is interesting.

this must be true. anyone can buy the paint, but only the artist can truly paint the picture. the medium is the tool, but it must first come through the mind

[Centurian]

this must be true. anyone can buy the paint, but only the artist can truly paint the picture. the medium is the tool, but it must first come through the mind

Nice analogy.

[The Divide]

no offence.

but playing with reason.... wheres the orionality in that. its like 1,000,000 producers having EXACTLY the same figgin studio setup. Baffles me.

Make your own drumkit. Buy some shitty mikes. Record you and your mates beating each other and sucking dogs off througha boss distortion pedal. get em all to buy a drum machine each - create some ckerazy Bidule/Reaktor setup for your inputs - JAM. Modulate off each other.. like, whatever.

Pre packagded off the shelf shit can suck my cock. If you want your music to be inventive your ways and means had better be too.

Inventiveness comes from the mind. Whatever tool you use to get the job done is almost irelevant.

I`ve heard mindless uncreative shit made in the best analog studios available.
I`ve also heard amazing original creative stuff done with really cheesy bog standard software.
Who cares, it`s the mind that is interesting.

Is this the same dirty bass who just posted that cubase was a stale, and boring and an uncreative environment to work in.

[dirty_bass]

Yes, but then if you use the same pallette of paints again and again, you will get bored and need a change to refresh you.
You world is not black and white.
It`s shades of grey.

[dirty_bass]

stale for me, I`m sure plenty of people get pleasure out of it still. I never said it was stale and uncreative for everyone.

[Jay Pace]

this must be true. anyone can buy the paint, but only the artist can truly paint the picture. the medium is the tool, but it must first come through the mind

Beautifully put. Always envied the latin ability to say things like that and not make it sound like I copied it out of a hallmark greeting card.

Personally, I play the spoons.

Dig my cutlery funk, you sassy ass bitches...

[dan the acid man]

sooooooo last year, im on three sets of forks these days :eyes: :cheer: <<<<hahahaha, wtf is that :lol:

[dirty_bass]

A cheerleader?

[The Divide]

no offence.

but playing with reason.... wheres the orionality in that. its like 1,000,000 producers having EXACTLY the same figgin studio setup. Baffles me.

Make your own drumkit. Buy some shitty mikes. Record you and your mates beating each other and sucking dogs off througha boss distortion pedal. get em all to buy a drum machine each - create some ckerazy Bidule/Reaktor setup for your inputs - JAM. Modulate off each other.. like, whatever.

Pre packagded off the shelf shit can suck my cock. If you want your music to be inventive your ways and means had better be too.

Inventiveness comes from the mind. Whatever tool you use to get the job done is almost irelevant.

I`ve heard mindless uncreative shit made in the best analog studios available.
I`ve also heard amazing original creative stuff done with really cheesy bog standard software.
Who cares, it`s the mind that is interesting.

Is this the same dirty bass who just posted that cubase was a stale, and boring and an uncreative environment to work in.

Okies well what I was trying to say I don’t really agree with what you put there about how the tool used is irrelevant.

Massplanks talking about building your own setup, were it be MAX, Reaktor or whatever. That is inventiveness/creativeness and comes from the mind in itself. That’s going to add/subtract/compliment/ruin the whole creative process and add to whatever it that your making. I fyou master that you could end up building something customized to work in a way which suits you and probably does things you cant do in the conventional sequencer. Thus making the tool relevant imo

Same goes for studios, hardware, etc. I am certain that if I approached a track using purely hardware my overall outcome would be different. Im still going to have the same creative drive, same ideas underneath but the process will be altered. I may be more or less likely to have happy accidents, or do something I havnt dont before. Now that may or may not be positive but it will affect what im doing. That’s why I think its important to have a mixture of everything, hardware software, etc. Then theres the technological aspects on how sounds changed depending on the tool...



taken from the electronic music 411 forum....

the sound of analogue equpiment including EQ, changes very noticably over even a few hours due to temperature changes within a circuit.
Anyone who has tried to make tracs on a few analogue synths and make them stay in tune can tell you this,you leave a trac running for a few hours come back and think Im sure I didnt **** write that,I must be going mental!

this affects all the components in a synth/EQ in an almost infinte amount of tiny ways.
and the amount differs from circuit to circuit depending on the design.

the interaction of different channels and their respective signals with an analogue mixer are very complex,EQ,dynamics....
any fx, analogue or digital that are plugged into it all have their own special complex characteristics and all interact with each other differently and change depending on their routing.
Nobody that ive heard of has even begun to start emulating analogue mixer circuitry in software,just the aesthetics,it will come but im sure it will be a crap half hearted effort like most pretend synth plugins are.
they should be called PST synths, P for pretend not virtual.

analogue EQ is currently impossible in theory to be emulated digitally,quite intense maths shit involed in this if youre really that interested,you could look it up...good luck.

your soundcard will always make things sound like its come from THAT soundcard..they ALL impose their different sound characteristics onto whatever comes out of them they are far from being totally neutral devices.

all the components of a circuit like resistors and capacitors subtley differ from each other depending on their quality but even the most high quality milatary spec ones are never EXACTLY the same.

no two analogue synths can ever be built exactly the same,there are tiny human/automated errors in building the circuits,tweaking the trimpots for example which is usually done manually in a lot of analogue shit.
just compare the sound of 2 808 drum machines next to each other and you will see what I mean,you always thought an 808 was an 808 right?
same goes for 303`s they all sound subltey different,different voltage scaling of the oscillator is usually quite noticable.


Then there is the question of the physicallity of the instrument this affects the way a human will emotionally interact with it and therfore affect what they will actually do with it! often overlooked from the maths heads,this is probably the biggest factor I think.
for example the smell of analogue stuff as well as the look of it puts you in a certain mental state which is very different from looking at a computer screen.

then there is analogue tape...ah this really could go on forever....

im quite drunk cant be bothered to type anymore...
so yeah,whatever, you obviously dont have to have analogue equipment to make `good` music in case thats the impression im giving,EVERYTHING has its uses .And not all anlaogue equipment is expensive you can still get bargains like old high end military audio devices,tape machines fx etc just go for the unfashionable stuff.

[dirty_bass]

I suppose it all depends how you work.
I already have everything clear in my head, so I just need the quickest method of translation from thought to sound.

However if your production is more a product of serendiptiy then you may need to have more things in front of you to bash and twirl.

Horses for courses, find or make what is comfortable for you, and then use it. There is NO best method.

[dan the acid man]

A cheerleader?

i asked for that didn't i :oops:

[dirty_bass]

I`m not sure you asked for it.
But it`s what you got.




Is that what you want?


Cos that`s what`ll appen.

[dan the acid man]

im not sure now, can i phone a friend

[audioinjection]

this must be true. anyone can buy the paint, but only the artist can truly paint the picture. the medium is the tool, but it must first come through the mind

Nice analogy.

very true

so whats better oil based or water based paint :P

[xfive]

this must be true. anyone can buy the paint, but only the artist can truly paint the picture. the medium is the tool, but it must first come through the mind

Nice analogy.

very true

so whats better oil based or water based paint :P

Blood

[Ritzi Lee]

If it is the suit that makes the man,
then it's the techno making the artist.....



pffff!!

[djshiva]

no one bashed him get over it people **** hell you girls ;)

a bit off topic perhaps, but can we refrain from using "girls" as an insult around here? some of us ARE women and i, for one, am not fond of my gender being used as an insult...

now back to your regularly scheduled programming...

boom tss boom tss boom tss boom tss

[Komplex]

get back in the kitchen Shiva and cook me some dinner ;)

[dirty_bass]

Yep, barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, chained to the cooker, seen but not heard.

[eyeswithoutaface]

yeah, and ive got a big pile of ironing needs doing here so hurry up with the dinner


:roll: ;)

[audioinjection]

oh dear

[Ritzi Lee]

chicken please!

[dirty_bass]

Make sure my beer is open and on the table for when I come home.
And make sure it`s cold, dammit!
You don`t wanna be locked in the coal cellar again do you?

[massplanck]

I like to be dominated by women.

[el salvador]

hey come on guys, the ladies are needing a break, and i think we should all give them one

[el salvador]

oh yeah, i thought magda sounded cool when i have heard her play

[eyeswithoutaface]

chill out its all in jest, you have to understand British humour

[The Divide]

I didnt find it funny when you stole that template record of me!

[eyeswithoutaface]

hahahaha