why are some of the bigger uk labels so poor?

[el salvador]

intec for example release some really cheesy stuff and call it techno, then they have say it is the best of british ep.
other labels like nova mute have remixes of nitzer eb. maybe they do a nirvana remix next.
why dont they make real techno? are they not real techno labels?
maybe they have no idea what is happening on the techno scene.
:rambo:

[Mirsha]

Or maybe you just have too narrow a line of what is and isn't techno?

[el salvador]

maybe it is because it might take them such a long time to release a record, by the time it hits the dancefloor things have just moved on again. intec will probabley release a cave record when all the other labels have already realised his talent and surfed the hype all year.

[The Divide]

I could be wrong but I think they are doing it to sell techno sell in larger units by crossing over to a wider audience. Kind of reminds me of what happened to trance when it went more mainstream

As for the pop remixes, I think its unnecessary and that people at least try focus on building their own riffs instead of ripping various pop records (a lot of the german techno used to have some wickid riffs - Heckman, Schumacher, Johannes Hiel, Kramer, etc).

I don’t mind this kind of thing when its done on bootleg because at least its faceless. Also with something a little obscure it can work really well = like the Ben Sims – Manipulated rmixs and its Spanish Ta' bueno ya vocals. That Nitzer ebb rmx doesn’t seem too bad, I like it as I think it’s the kind of record which get younger people interested as they probably don’t know Nitzer ebb is. I do think theres a line tho, I mean if going to a techno club involved dancing around to pop records with a techno backbone I wouldn’t go. There is much better, more creative and exciting music out there...

[dirty_bass]

Nitzer Eb pop?

[Miromiric]

its not pop, but it is kind of cheesy :S

[mattboyslim]

nitzer ebb is an electronic music legend. whats the problem?

[Miromiric]

no problem mattboy, i just think its cheese, thats all.

[The Divide]

He was a legend, so was Micheal Jackson, Underworld, Salt and Pepper. Gorrilaz are pretty popular, someone should do a pop techno record with them. Hows abotu a Blur one, etc, etc

I feel a school disco coming on :)

[dirty_bass]

I don`t think Nitzer Ebb was ever pop. When they were in their good years I don`t remeber them being in the charts at all.
Nope, didn`t get played in any of the lager boy clubs from what I can remember.
It was on the more commercial end of the EBM scene though.
Hardly pop.

Someone already has done a gorillaz techno tune. It was weak.

[dirty_bass]

There`s nowt wrong wth a cheeky booty or nostalgic remix now and again, as long it is done well, and creatively.
If it`s just cookie cutter techno with "insert old pop sample here" then yeah, that`s shite.

[The Divide]

Yea I agree. I liked the salt and pepper remixes, cant remember what they were called tho. There was another one floating around the same time that had a vocal which sounded like a step aerobics instructor saying 'back 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 and back' :lol:

[The Divide]

I don`t think Nitzer Ebb was ever pop. When they were in their good years I don`t remeber them being in the charts at all.
Nope, didn`t get played in any of the lager boy clubs from what I can remember.
It was on the more commercial end of the EBM scene though.
Hardly pop.

Someone already has done a gorillaz techno tune. It was weak.

I never said it was i was referring to it as it was mentioned at the top of the thread

[Jay Pace]

There was another one floating around the same time that had a vocal which sounded like a step aerobics instructor saying 'back 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 and back' :lol:

Christ I remember that. ****ing awful stuff.

Novamute are a good label.

If they want to put out crossover stuff, fair play to 'em.
They are in the business of being in business after all.

[Patrick]

The Nitzer Ebb remixes on Novamute make perfect sense.
Novamute is a sub-label of Mute, and was set up to release the more electronic beat type stuff in '92(iirc). As Nitzer Ebb already had lots of albums & singles released on Mute, releasing "techno" remixes on their sub-label seems a reasonable and logical step.

[dirty_bass]

The Nitzer Ebb remixes on Novamute make perfect sense.
Novamute is a sub-label of Mute, and was set up to release the more electronic beat type stuff in '92(iirc). As Nitzer Ebb already had lots of albums & singles released on Mute, releasing "techno" remixes on their sub-label seems a reasonable and logical step.

Who asked you mr "takes a pointless argument and solves it by telling people the correct hostorical facts"
You`ve got the lurgey you have.

[el salvador]

if depeche mode are mute records then yes there is a connection to nitzer eb, but i would not call it techno personly. for me cheese does not equal techno, and nitzer eb was only an example. they are not the point to my thread here guys.

[Jay Pace]

Nights of the Jaguar was a cheesy record

A sublime record, but cheesy to many.

Doesn't mean that it isn't techno.

[eyeswithoutaface]

yeah bit of an odd one this, and i dont really see the connection. Intec is just Intec, like it or loathe it, and it doesnt really give an honest impression of what others may deem UK techno. In the slightest. It had some quality releases when it first started years back definately, but even they were not all Uk artists, its a british based label sure but it doesnt really represent UK techno. Novamute is just a quality label really, and there's nothing really cheesy about "join in the chant", its a classic record and seriously goes off EVERYTIME someone plays it

[Patrick]

The Nitzer Ebb remixes on Novamute make perfect sense.
Novamute is a sub-label of Mute, and was set up to release the more electronic beat type stuff in '92(iirc). As Nitzer Ebb already had lots of albums & singles released on Mute, releasing "techno" remixes on their sub-label seems a reasonable and logical step.

Who asked you mr "takes a pointless argument and solves it by telling people the correct hostorical facts"
You`ve got the lurgey you have.

:lol:
I know ! What was I thinking ?

[Agent Orange NYC]

intec for example release some really cheesy stuff and call it techno, then they have say it is the best of british ep.
other labels like nova mute have remixes of nitzer eb. maybe they do a nirvana remix next.
why dont they make real techno? are they not real techno labels?
maybe they have no idea what is happening on the techno scene.
:rambo:

It's so amusing/confusing to me when someone says 'real' techno. Intec is not real techno? What do you suppose it is then? Maybe if they over compress all of their tunes, will it become a 'real' techno label then? Or maybe they need to sell less than 700 copies?

If 'too many people like it, it's not real techno! Real Techno is only stuff that's too hard to play in most clubs! haha

[The Divide]

Nights of the Jaguar was a cheesy record
.

Why? Its not as if it was predictable. My idea of cheesy tends to just be something that’s really formulaic, has a really obvious progression. I thought the string section was very clever and the synth was pretty unique. It still had that mechanical feel to it too

btw every heard that acoustic guitar version that’s kicking around? I think its just someone on a guitar, heard it the other day and I was thinking 'this sounds familiar'

[The Divide]

ever*

[Jay Pace]

Pushing an open door with this because I think knights of the jaguar is a cracking track.

However the plinky plonkyness and dramatic strings were too much for some people, and they thought it cheesy.

Some people just find drama in records naff. Especially in dance music.

[tocsin]

The only narrow approach to "techno" is to subdivide into lines that the rest of the world won't understand. Thump - Thump - Thump -Thump pretty much sounds the same to most of those who don't follow scenester crap. And, if we approached it that way, things would likelier be healthier, especially if people dropped stubborn attitudes that clung to inaccessable and outdated technology. It's completely ironic when a "techno" crowd is opposed to advances in technology. Chuck D put it nicely in his last terrordome rant: "if you know a DJ who doesn't know what 'Serato' is ...run from him/her ..."

http://publicenemy.com/index.php?page=page3

[Alan Oldham]

there's nothing really cheesy about "join in the chant", its a classic record and seriously goes off EVERYTIME someone plays it

People going off to a track doesn't make it good, especially if *shudder* GIRLS like it.

[eyeswithoutaface]

of course it makes it good, certainly to an extent. If it was crap its likely it wouldnt get played, never mind get a good reaction, certainly in the club's i prefer to frequent, and certainly at any clubs i play at.

and surely you'd want more girls dancing? the club's up here tend to resemble a sausage fest at the best of times so any girls dancing is fine by me

[massplanck]

Chuck D put it nicely in his last terrordome rant: "if you know a DJ who doesn't know what 'Serato' is ...run from him/her ..."



what is serato?

[mihica]

yeah, what is it?

[Jay Pace]

Its another final scatch thang. Made by Rane, popular stateside with turntablists such as Jazzy Jeff.

[conflict]

intec for example release some really cheesy stuff and call it techno, then they have say it is the best of british ep.
other labels like nova mute have remixes of nitzer eb. maybe they do a nirvana remix next.
why dont they make real techno? are they not real techno labels?
maybe they have no idea what is happening on the techno scene.
:rambo:

hahaha good call man

[Patrick]

Chuck D put it nicely in his last terrordome rant: "if you know a DJ who doesn't know what 'Serato' is ...run from him/her ..."



what is serato?

It's a type pf spanish ham that poncey chefs on the telly use.
I'mr unning away from you now.

[detfella]

And, if we approached it that way, things would likelier be healthier, especially if people dropped stubborn attitudes that clung to inaccessable and outdated technology. It's completely ironic when a "techno" crowd is opposed to advances in technology.

yeah strange of all the music genres techno is in a small group that aspire to using new/future technology and its ideology of space and futurism. unfortunatley only a few techno artists aim towards this objective, the rest seem to focus more on other factors. i'd say the early electronic pioneers from the 50s still sound more futuristic than much of the techno fodder that is released today. there have been a lot of advances in technology in the past decade but i don't see techno being the genre that explores the possibilties..i mean people are still getting excited over a software 303 clone! even disreagarding technology, techno tends to stick to similar structures and production values, i can count on 1 hand the number of tracks released that don't confrom to 4/4. i don't think the crowd is anti-change, the rise in popularity of electronica shows how much people are wanting it. all credit to dirty bass because he sticks his neck on the line and challenges techno's form and there are many other notable artists out there.

i love all forms of techno but for me and like juan atkins once said "techno is just dance music" and its produced to work on the dancefloor. if i want to hear something take me to the otherside of the universe and back, its not very often i'll be listening to techno*

*but there are always exceptions ;)

[danielmarshall]

Since Carl Cox pretty well dictates the direction Intec takes I'm not surprised it's not just a techno label. Although they're admittedly fickle the've certainly released allot of brilliant records. Take Deetron - Alien Entertainment EP for an example.

[davethedrummer]

it just depend what you like innit?
personally i find intec are not too bad , sometimes a bit too melodic
but generally you couldn't really class their output as anything other than techno.

i mean it isn't house , it's not breaks , d+b , trance , hard house etc ...
i reckon it falls squarely into the techno category

it's just that techno is a pretty broad style of music these days
and there's nothing wrong with that.

using the term " real techno " is a bit narrow minded
actually , a LOT , narrow minded

sort it out geezer....maybe go listen to chas and dave for a week
and then put on the latest intec record

THEN you will appreciate it.

[dan the acid man]

dont go dissing chas and dave..............rabbit! rabbit! rabbit! rabbit! rabbit!

[machina]

I really do think think that too many people have a much to narrow idea of what techno is. All the old stuff i.e. the old detroit stuff from the old days is nearly unrecognisable from the hard 'glenn willson' techno, but it IS the definition of techno from a purist point of view. Although if someone made it today the techno kiddies who have no friggin idea who slag it off and say it's cheesy house or something because they are uneducated idiots.

To me, the beauty of techno has always been that is has limitless possibilities - as far as i'm concerned it can encompass all types of music, it's the sum of the parts that makes it techno...

machina

[massplanck]

To me, the beauty of techno has always been that is has limitless possibilities -

Thats cock.


Its very limited.

[massplanck]

electronic music however. ISNT.

[Sunil]

using the term " real techno " is a bit narrow minded
actually , a LOT , narrow minded



Kind of. Sure, there was always cheesy techno that was on the edge of passable/not 'real' techno, but that isn't the shit that gets remembered in techno history, just like much of the Intec stuff for instance. I mean the last good Intec 12" was probably the re-release of that old track by Smith & Selway.

Personally I don't know why we're wasting time even acknowledging or talking about Intec in the techno forum. They're pretty much A Grade shite; take Coxy out of the equation and they'd have little standing. Rumour has it they pay their artists peanuts as well.

[massplanck]

werd.

[machina]

so do you guys consider 'strings of life' to be techno?

machina

[machina]

take the early detroit stuff - say 'strings of life' or some of the model 500 stuff, and then take a glenn wilson track, a early mills track, a sven wittekind track, a carl craig track, a dave angel funky track - they're all techno in my book, but they are pretty ****en different... throw in the surgeon/bmb/grovskopa/luka b industrial take on it - and it's a pretty wide genre on music... compared to dnb or hard trance or NRG or whatever...

machina

[Ritzi Lee]

take the early detroit stuff - say 'strings of life' or some of the model 500 stuff, and then take a glenn wilson track, a early mills track, a sven wittekind track, a carl craig track, a dave angel funky track - they're all techno in my book, but they are pretty **** different... throw in the surgeon/bmb/grovskopa/luka b industrial take on it - and it's a pretty wide genre on music... compared to dnb or hard trance or NRG or whatever...

machina

Maybe different in sounds, but very much common in concept.
The concept of when a track sound techno or not.

[danielmarshall]

To me, the beauty of techno has always been that is has limitless possibilities -

Thats cock.


Its very limited.

I don't agree with either of you actually.

[massplanck]

i dont agree with you either.

[The Divide]

Club/hard techno is very limited as it has to be built in a way so it works for the DJ. Well that’s if you want it to be played by anyone but yourself :lol:

[The Divide]

Well saying that, thats not sometrhing I personally agree with I can see way people this however think its more important to write for yourself and not for the cj. Its why I want to see ableton/ digital mixing take off as in theory people wont have play stuff thats regimented into a fprmat thats easy to mix

Right best go wrap me prezies!

[danielmarshall]

i dont agree with you either.

You can't mean me. Do you? Otherwise you're saying techno is very limited and boundless at the same time, which makes me very confused :P

[Mindful]

So whats your take on it DanielM?
You dont aggree that its limited and you dont agree that its limitless.
So whats the grey area that your speaking of?

Not trying to be argumentitive just wondering.

[massplanck]

i dont agree with you either.

You can't mean me. Do you? Otherwise you're saying techno is very limited and boundless at the same time, which makes me very confused :P

I agree with that too.

[massplanck]

Its why I want to see ableton/ digital mixing take off as in theory people wont have play stuff thats regimented into a fprmat thats easy to mix

!

Well I cant speak for anyone else but i have never had a problem mixing death metal + techno + illbient + ambient sounscapes & d'n'b together in my sets just using my vinyls. I just didnt keep buying the same type of music every week & saw beatmatching as just another tool as opposed to a rule set in stone. I'd find it harder to mix that stuff in abelton but it would prob be just easier for people now to 'aquire' a diverse range on music.. and **** it all togther using abeleton.

[The Divide]

Its why I want to see ableton/ digital mixing take off as in theory people wont have play stuff thats regimented into a fprmat thats easy to mix

!

Well I cant speak for anyone else but i have never had a problem mixing death metal + techno + illbient + ambient sounscapes & d'n'b together in my sets just using my vinyls.

Show off :lol:

[Miromiric]

is it time for new "you just got served" contest, like one between frankie bones and pacou?

[danielmarshall]

LOL sorry about the confusion. Well I suppose what I meant was that techno is not the panacea of artistic expression like some people make out, but it's also by no means (in my book anyway) "very limited" as put elsewhere. Techno like any form of music has areas where it strikes a particularly poinient note. Concepts regarding the future for example e.g. Jeff Mills work exceedingly well. But try discribing something like politics with techno and you'll find it's pretty limited. Not saying that music can't have a political slant, just that it's not the most effective medium. Other art forms like theatre, spoken word or film would probably better suite this category.

[Adey]

Si Begg's on Novamute. Nuff said.

[massplanck]

Show off :lol:

yeah danny i'm a big show off. **** u.

[The Overfiend]

fine line is different strokes for different folks
I don't think too many people can define keeping it real or what is real techno
despite what every one says there are some damn good producers out there right now
being forced by the general consumer to make bullshit
when you have someone who made a plethora of good releases and then makes minimal ask yourself
maybe this cat made a living off music and probably had no backup plan and has to adjust to the wave
as far as intec and all those other what would be considered commercial or cheese labels what most have to accept is that
there is an audience for that
the people who dont know any better of genuinely like that sound are going to go and buy that
and so are the dj's who play for the masses and say "hey a girl would really like this synth track over the average no kicks loop"
we as part of the machine need to push what we feel is real deal as hard as we can to at least be heard
if it works kudos to you if not you became part of the bigger schematics of things which integrally is education

[The Overfiend]

figures i say something that makes total sense and no one wants to take action just bitch and moan

[dirty_bass]

Somehwere along the way, I lost my hat.
I`m just gonna run back and see if I can find where I dropped it.
You guys go on ahead, I`ll catch you up.

[danielmarshall]

figures i say something that makes total sense and no one wants to take action just bitch and moan

Easy... I agree with ya matey :) Underground techno doesn't appeal to everybody, and just because it doesn't it doesn't mean that those people don't have a good taste in music. It just means that they probably think allong the same lines as we do, but it in no way is an excuse for us to be snobbish and arrogant towards them. Techno elitism is something that has corrupted what techno stood for in the beginning. It follows the same mindset as racism and religious fanatism... The idea that because of a small difference one group of people are somehow elevated in thier existance than another. It's ugly and has no place in this community.

PLUR!!!!!! :lol:

[dirty_bass]

Ahh yes, but without ugliness, beauty would mean nothing.

[danielmarshall]

No. There's enough ugliness in the world... Dance music gives me an escape from that and I see no need to spoil it.

[el salvador]

well actually i think you could find that the reason behind intec being a bit on the cheesy side is because their label manager (jon rundell) is in fact a happy hardhouse/dance/style/nrg (or whatever it have being called this week), who even plays at tidy trax weekender events. those guys seem have to like their techno lately on this forum too. not to mention any names, but i think you know who you all are ;)
and here is the proof too for you guys

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/showthread/t-316019.html

if you like that kind of sound it is up to you, but please dont hijack our sound to try and make yourself seem like you are a :terminator: when yo are really a :cheer:

everyone who is really into music has a snobbishly and arrogant attitude to what it is that they like. that is creating our passion to the scene. that is why we are here on these forums. our music is the best and fu cking rules
:lol:

[mikehumphries]

if you like that kind of sound it is up to you, but please dont hijack our sound to try and make yourself seem like you are a :terminator: when yo are really a :cheer:

everyone who is really into music has a snobbishly and arrogant attitude to what it is that they like. that is creating our passion to the scene. that is why we are here on these forums. our music is the best and fu cking rules
:lol:

hahahaha. lock and load bro :rambo:

[danielmarshall]

...everyone who is really into music has a snobbishly and arrogant attitude to what it is that they like. that is creating our passion to the scene...

Speak for yourself mate.

Techno is fantastic, and I'll defend it against anybody that says otherwise, but I'm not going to fling sh!t at music I don't understand or enjoy. Passionate yes, snobbish no.

By rideculing people who into other forms of music you just reduce the likelyhood of them giving your music a go. If you were really passionate about getting techno out there and recognised for what it is and not so concerned with keeping the old boys club under lock and key you'd probably enjoy it allot more too.