Backwards to go forwards

[MARKEG]

I've been speaking to alot of the key techno artists recently and so many of them are going backwards to go forwards. It's like we're having to go back to the original ethos of techno, that original energy, to find something new. What do you guys think?

If ya check the Neil Landstrumm PA in our BOA Radio Show you'll see what I'm saying. This has quite literally blown me away and got that original energy back. Love it.

Whilst everyone is going one way, I think this might actually be the way forward, even though it's backward. Strange I know, but perhaps this is a reaction to the drive of technology.

Let me know your thoughts on this guys, would love to know.

[rhythmtech]

well every other musical "genre" seems to fold back on itslef to re-invent itself.. y shouldn't techno be any differant. we all go on about how its meant to be "new" and "future" but theres only so much we can do. harkin back to the past and putting a new slant on it IS creating something new but just in a differant context than is commonly acceptable within our scene.

i mean look at the reaction the new chris cowie track on intec got. a lot of people dissed it because of its old school flavour, but i've played it out, i've heard henry play it out and i've seen it rock dancefloors... whos right? the producers picking it apart on this board or the dancefloor... i know which one i'd put my money on.

[Col]

i think for techno to seriously move forward, it has to become something else. what i have learnt over the last 1-2 years is that techno doesnt really have much of a leg to stand on musically. that is a just a generalisation of course, i mean im not going to sit here and say all techno is absolute tripe, far from it. i guess the genre serves a purpose, and their are artists within the genre that try not to come up with same old shit, but right now their happen to be a lot of artists within other genre's making large advances musically.

i used to believe innovation was a large part of what techno is about...i couldnt have been more wrong. their are far more genres out there that blow techno away in an artistic sense.

perhaps techno does need to go back to its roots. its obviously not any good at pushing musical boundries. infact your right, techno needs to turn round and run.

[rhythmtech]

it all depends on what way or which "kind" of techno that you're talking about.

i generally stick techno into two camps:

1. "listening techno" - this is techno most people would find interesting to listen to but a few of us still find it great to dance to aswell. this is where a high % of the innovation takes place.

2. "dancefloor techno" - this is self explanatory really. techno aimed squarely at the dance floor. to innovate within this sub-genre is really really hard and needs to be done very carefully as we still need to keep dancefloor sensibilities in mind.

unfortunatly most of the listening public are only ever subjected to the second kind, which means that in our eyes (in light of public perception) we aren't progressing as a scene... but we are. i hear tracks everyday that make me sit up and listen. just today i heard a sample from "museum of skulls" by the divide and nearly cried because it was so good! thats what boundry pushing is all about. makin the nerds and the geeks sit up and listen.
but on the other hand i hear artists, who would be making tracks from the second camp, innovating aswell. for instance: the new hydraulix record is something dark and evil yet it will rock a dancefloor. dark tracks can be very very dodgy on a dancefloor and we've all seen them kill a mood BUT to make a dark track that kicks of is truely genius.. and genius innovates...

[mattboyslim]

the best ideas are slight twists on what has already been done. the majority of humans cannot handle something too far out and different. thats why those in the know, and those with a sense of experimentation and forward thinking (most techno geeks i guess) look at other genres/scenes and laugh as they seem to be so far behind, but its simply good business ethics. feeding new ideas in slowly and allowing the punters to get used to it

we all harp on about techno being an attitude and all that, but if we want it to survive we should start shaping it in a business sense. is anyone really gona sit there saying ''oh well at least i didn't sell my soul'' when techno is dead and buried?

[dirty_bass]

I dunno.
Looking backwards is what old people do when they run out of ideas.
All cosying up to the tea time of the past.

There are plenty of new peeps around doing new things.
Maybe the "key" techno artists aren`t the key anymore, and thats the problem, hype over musicality.

Ignor the names and listen to the music.
Who cares who made it, who cares what sub genre it is.

[eyeswithoutaface]

totally different thing to look back to the past for inspiration and doing a track like that awful Cowie nonsense on Intec. That's just ripping off old Dave Clarke "Archive 1" era, and also restraining the producer to fit into the label, because Cowie does some brilliant tracks that are nothing like that drivel on Intec

interesting idea overall, but i think a healthy balance of pushing forward and looking back to the past is still needed

[Stodgy]

Have to agree with Scott but I also really go with what Mark says, that old dancefloor energy is pure magic and (for me) the whole point in partying. But I think it's important to at least try and bring something new and unique to any music. So yeah, always respect your elders but leave your own mark on things to come!

[Jay Pace]

I have no problem going backwards for inspiration or style.
Happens in every other form of music - jazz, funk, rock, dub, reggae etc. Why the hell not techno? If I go see a ska band, should I lambast them for not pushing things forward into neo-ska?

If its good music its good music. If its tired and old and dull it will sound exactly that. I still find tracks that are ten years old that I've missed completely, and they still sound fresh as a daisy to my ears.

If you are always looking forward and trying to innovate you limit yourself. Looking back gives you more to draw upon. No-one's said you can't look forward and back, leftward and rightwards and always twirling.. twirling...

[FuK-NuT]

I dunno.
Looking backwards is what old people do when they run out of ideas.
All cosying up to the tea time of the past.

There are plenty of new peeps around doing new things.
Maybe the "key" techno artists aren`t the key anymore, and thats the problem, hype over musicality.

Ignor the names and listen to the music.
Who cares who made it, who cares what sub genre it is.

word....

[dirty_bass]

Well, most other types of electronic music (that I listen too) have really developed and gone into fresh areas.
Not by looking backwards, but by looking elsewhere.
Some hip hop, for example, has looked to techno for inspiration.
Some IDM has gone into jazz areas.
To develop techno, why look at the past of techno?
To me that`s just incest, and doesn`t contribute to evolution, it just recycles the genes and leads to defective children.
I think people should open their eyes and get out of the techno box, have a look around and see what else is out there, grab something inspiring and rewire it into techno.

[Mika]

Well, most other types of electronic music (that I listen too) have really developed and gone into fresh areas.
Not by looking backwards, but by looking elsewhere.
Some hip hop, for example, has looked to techno for inspiration.
Some IDM has gone into jazz areas.
To develop techno, why look at the past of techno?
To me that`s just incest, and doesn`t contribute to evolution, it just recycles the genes and leads to defective children.
I think people should open their eyes and get out of the techno box, have a look around and see what else is out there, grab something inspiring and rewire it into techno.

This is so ****ing true

[gunjack]

like i just said in another thread the whole "retro/90's" vibe that's going round is just dissapointing at best. a guy like ruskin for example makes boom hiss 909 stuff that smaks of effort to sound like 90's tresor releases when he probably has tons of unreleased, conceptual and deep stuff lying round...

the thing ppl fail to grasp is that timeless tracks go beyond that entire question, i have carl craig/BFC trax that are from 89/90 that sound as conceptual and amazing today as they did then. there are 90's tracks such as "the wipe" by teste that sound fresh still today because they did not rely on the typical 909's and pattern structures....


what i think mark is really talking bout is a recent trend toward the classic drum machine sounds and a 90's vibe. this CAN and sometimes DOES work well, but i am afraid folks take things too far (as is our nature as ppl) and get carried away.

[SlavikSvensk]

making retro techno is one thing. i'm fine with it, but don't see it as anything more than a niche. but i think mark is talking more about people going back to and trying to capture the energy and, well, naive innocence, you find in a lot of old records. that's how i read it at least. i'm all for it. i think techno is often too self-conscious nowadays.

[SlavikSvensk]

like i just said in another thread the whole "retro/90's" vibe that's going round is just dissapointing at best. a guy like ruskin for example makes boom hiss 909 stuff that smaks of effort to sound like 90's tresor releases when he probably has tons of unreleased, conceptual and deep stuff lying round...

the thing ppl fail to grasp is that timeless tracks go beyond that entire question, i have carl craig/BFC trax that are from 89/90 that sound as conceptual and amazing today as they did then. there are 90's tracks such as "the wipe" by teste that sound fresh still today because they did not rely on the typical 909's and pattern structures....


what i think mark is really talking bout is a recent trend toward the classic drum machine sounds and a 90's vibe. this CAN and sometimes DOES work well, but i am afraid folks take things too far (as is our nature as ppl) and get carried away.

yeah that sums it up nicely

[dirty_bass]

How can you capture innocense?
I think that`s nonsense. You are never innocent once you have exposed yourself to something.
It`s all just psychobabble for regurgitation.

[rhythmtech]

each to their own steve...

[SlavikSvensk]

How can you capture innocense?
I think that`s nonsense. You are never innocent once you have exposed yourself to something.
It`s all just psychobabble for regurgitation.

god db, don't be so literalist. aren't you supposed to be BOA's resident philosopher? ;)

let me spell out what i was saying more clearly: if people make "classic" sounding tracks that adhere to a formula, i.e. retro techno, then that doesn't really get why those old tracks were so good. it's still based on the idea that something needs a certain way for it to be "legitimate." like just using 909s and 808s because the old guys did. however, it's not just using a 909, but the way they were manipulated in the context of what was going on at the time, and that producers back then weren't asking themselves "is this detroit techno or is this belgian techno? are my kicks right?" so..."retro techno" might sound good at times, but to me it's of small interest.

my POINT was not "psychobabble for regurgitation," but to POINT OUT that techno has lost a certain amount of freedom, which IN THE CASE OF MANY CLASSICS, came in some part from naive innocence on the part of producers, who didn't quite understand the idea that there are or should be rules. my POINT was that i'm all for producers who want to free themselves from our neat, tidy subgenre fixation and reconnect with the freedom a lot of those classic tracks--and the best new tracks--exhibit. to me that's both going forwards AND going backwards.

[jon connor]

yes sir mark i agree dude its mental , i see everyone is going minimal abroad especially , i was in italy last week and the guys were telling me that minimal techno is massive there now its difficult to play hard techno there wots going on ? i see this is happening in other places aswell wow :roll: but its not so bad in sum ways hahahahah at least you can go back to ya trusty old collection and play sum stuff you couldent get away with many moons ago hahahahahahahaha but hey i think the world has done a complete u turn and re generating especially with electronik dance music phew! mad i no but we cant stop it just get on the train and enjoy the ride hehehehehe at the end of the day its all good all good ;)

[holotropik]

My collection of thoughts.....

To me this topic is currently relevent. I recently went back through all my old archive tracks from 1999-2002, sort of by accident and got a refreshed view on where I am now and what I was trying to do (I blame it on the last full-moon cycle). It was a real benefit to listen to what I was trying to achieve back then (ok, not all that long ago I guess) but what I noticed most was the energy of the music then when compared to now. It had much more and was much more abrasive and bold.

Since then I have continued to follow the vibe that seemed appropriate to the dance floor and the music is somewhat more sedate and demure. BPM has slowed and sounds a more rounded rather than slamming. But the vibe of society was like this too....more complacent and uninterested vibe, hence why we have techno that is more housey now.

There is now a vibe of anxiety creeping back into society as we become aware of issues that are pissing people off and making them frustrated. So wouldnt it be correct to say that the music they accept would be more in line with this vibe?? Something more angst ridden and a little more aggressive....

If you look at what rock music is going through now it seems to be doing the 'look backward in order to go forward' thing too.

I reckon that those who went from Techno into the more housey minimal side of things have simply crossed into another genre. Its not Techno that they are playing, its totally different music for totally different people and purpose. More and more each day it moves further into mainstream electronic based music and therefore becomes safer and more palatable to the masses. There is more vocal content and sounds borrowed from rock music. It become good business for this reason, for now, but it will paint itself into a corner as all styles do and morph into something else - but will always remain in the current mood and culture it has spawned.

Techno as we know it did go through a quiet patch, but, only because most people didnt want/need that sort of music during the fallout period post 1999/2000. This fallout period is where many Techno players/producers spent their time investigating other genres and forms and will now bring these ideas back into techno that is coming next. Part of this process may be to look back or revisit what was in order to help spark what is next. Some dont require looking in the rear-view mirror as they are speeding off into the road ahead of them and dont want to take their eyes of the road they have found.....its new....there could be a turn ahead or a pothole so it pays to keep the right foot mashed to the floor and take on whatever unknown twists and turns lay ahead....

[dirty_bass]

I don`t think you need to look at older more "free" tracks to gain inspiration.
If you are that bothered by there being restraints, then simply break those restraints.
The main point was that "key" players are doing this.
Well that`s cos they have been doing techno for ages, and maybe are burnt out.
Sure there are some lessons to be learned from old productions.
To see what has been before etc
But this, returning to old skool vibes, which essentially is a way of twisting what is actually happening, which is remaking what has been before.
Lets not pretend it is anything else.

[SlavikSvensk]

mate, all i'm saying is:

1) "old school" or "retro" as a predetermined set of sounds=fine, but not innovative
2) "old school" as a state of mind, in light of the overly segmented, overly self-conscious state of MOST techno today, is a way forward. it's both the past and the potential future. i don't ever want to make a track that sounds like a 2nd-rate e-dancer, but i'd sure as hell like to make tracks that achieve what heavenly or pump the move did. tracks that are emotive and free like those are.

[dirty_bass]

mate, all i'm saying is:

1) "old school" or "retro" as a predetermined set of sounds=fine, but not innovative
2) "old school" as a state of mind, in light of the overly segmented, overly self-conscious state of MOST techno today, is a way forward. it's both the past and the potential future. i don't ever want to make a track that sounds like a 2nd-rate e-dancer, but i'd sure as hell like to make tracks that achieve what heavenly or pump the move did. tracks that are emotive and free like those are.

That`s not an old school state of mind, that`s a creative frame of mind.
Making music for the sake of it, rather than so it`s easy for a DJ to mix, and doesn`t sound tto different from your sub genre.

[SlavikSvensk]

mate, all i'm saying is:

1) "old school" or "retro" as a predetermined set of sounds=fine, but not innovative
2) "old school" as a state of mind, in light of the overly segmented, overly self-conscious state of MOST techno today, is a way forward. it's both the past and the potential future. i don't ever want to make a track that sounds like a 2nd-rate e-dancer, but i'd sure as hell like to make tracks that achieve what heavenly or pump the move did. tracks that are emotive and free like those are.

That`s not an old school state of mind, that`s a creative frame of mind.
Making music for the sake of it, rather than so it`s easy for a DJ to mix, and doesn`t sound tto different from your sub genre.

AND, my point is that much older techno was, to me, a lot more f***ing creative than all the cookie cutter sh*t you hear now. i've said this like a hundred times on here, in a number of contexts: free yourself of context and your music will cease to be endlessly self-referential, which is NOTABLY the principle characteristic i admire in old techno.

[JamieBall]

because it was so good! thats what boundry pushing is all about. makin the nerds and the geeks sit up and listen.

Dude, nerds RUIN techno !

Personally, I'm still sticking with my 'music that rocks' ethos. Some music does, and some really DOES NOT :-)

I wouldn't say it's neccesary to go 'backwards', just keep on keepin' on and if you rock then there's no problem.

Also, I'd say techno is more a state of mind and an attitude towards production as opposed to being an actual definable style of 'music', much like hip-hop.

I don't really listen to techno. I've got Chuck Berry and Little Richard on a lot of the time, to be perfectly honest.

The thing that rules about this music is that they're not scared to just rock the **** out of one riff for a whole track, cause they know that it's good enough.

The main thing you notice when looking at 'songs' is that there's usually a part that most people look forward to, a favourite riff or modulation or something. Many bands dress these bits up and only let you have snippets in amongst more average stuff, but these high points often keep the track afloat - the lows working almost paradoxically to make the highs even MORE ROCKING.

I think a lot of hip-hop and techno is all about trying to create 'the perfect beat' which is just totally awesome and will make ninjas appear and pop, like, 10,000,000 boners all at once and wail hard on guitars while beheading pirates and exploding.

I'm not saying I'm right, but I don't think too many people look at it this way. Many people are trying to make what they think is 'techno' cause that's what they've heard described as 'techno' and they're missing the point. I love techno as a musical form as you can basically throw whatever the **** you want into the mix. However, presuming (and KNOWING) that this is the case, doesn't anyone find it puzzling how much of this stuff ALL SOUNDS THE SAME ?

I think one of the main problems in techno is the very fact that there is no real money in it. If we had some seriously arsey A&R folks jetting about the country signing up techno artists I'd lay money on it that a lot of the rubbish stuff would just disappear and people would simply have to up their game. Silly scenario, I know, but I think the lack of any sort of quality control in the chain does basically hurt the scene, ya know.

I'm sure I've said it before on here but it's like anyone with a laptop can do an ableton set of their own stuff from day 1 - no problem. Would you step up onstage with a guitar having no prior knowledge of how to play it and expect to be able to rock like Jimmy Page ? No, you would not... (are you feeling the analogy, mmmmm, sweet)

Surely people must notice how much more musical (on the whole) techno was in hardware days when you had to work to buy equipment and actually LEARN IT FOR MONTHS once you'd got it home ? This was an unfortunate neccesity in those days, but a valuable learning curve that I feel is essentially missing from the 'techno' making process nowadays.

Techno seems to have almost become the music that's made by people who can't make anything else*. That's LAME.

Jeez, what a ****ing diatribe. Honestly, if you don't know me you'd be forgiven for thinking I was a total cunt ;-)

*No offence to people making the super-grind, you know I love you all.

[JamieBall]

Honestly, if you don't know me you'd be forgiven for thinking I was a total cunt ;-)


I'm not, by the way. I'm disarmingly charming.

:lol:

[rhythmtech]

because it was so good! thats what boundry pushing is all about. makin the nerds and the geeks sit up and listen.

Dude, nerds RUIN techno !



i think you misread me jamie. i didnt mean the point was to make them listen i just meant that you know you've done something totally out there when the "nerds" notice...

*rhythm technologies in no way condones the use of nerds for medicinal or musical experimentation*

[JamieBall]

because it was so good! thats what boundry pushing is all about. makin the nerds and the geeks sit up and listen.

Dude, nerds RUIN techno !



i think you misread me jamie. i didnt mean the point was to make them listen i just meant that you know you've done something totally out there when the "nerds" notice...

*rhythm technologies in no way condones the use of nerds for medicinal or musical experimentation*

Nah, all's good my man. It wasn't really directed at what you'd said anyways. I just like any excuse to rag on nerds. ;)

Mind you, best to bear in mind that when nerds notice your stuff you might just have done something... well... nerdy :)

[dirty_bass]

Techno seems to have almost become the music that's made by people who can't make anything else*. That's LAME.



I have to agree with pretty much everything you said.
There aren`t enough musicains making techno.
Too many DJ`s with a copy of reason.

[xfive]

Techno seems to have almost become the music that's made by people who can't make anything else*. That's LAME.

hahah so true.
People need to branch out creatively more.

I honestly raaaaarely if ever, listen to techno if I'm at work or at home.
I have more jazz, and hip hop in my collection of cds and music than I do anything else. It's important for me to be able to find little things in all of that, that can be applied when making techno, in subtle ways.

I'm sure many other people are like that as well.

But if all you listen to all day is techno and then you go to try and make techno.. you will inevitably, unnoticingly, mimic something you have heard.. even if you don't mean to.
Thus the whole incestuous, samey shit we are hearing a lot of.

Booooo

Go listen to something else people

[Col]

Techno seems to have almost become the music that's made by people who can't make anything else*. That's LAME.



I have to agree with pretty much everything you said.
There aren`t enough musicains making techno.
Too many DJ`s with a copy of reason.

exactly.

problem is, most people with a reasonable amount of musical ability dont want to be connected to this genre. its almost got to a point where its become embarassing to be connected to it.

like i said earlier> my guess is that even if you try and break the techno formula then it becomes something else. (due to the way other genres have made ground musically) which brings me to the conclusion that techno is doomed. for me anyway. there are very few artists in this genre that i respect anymore. (probably less than 10) i really cant see that list expanding short-term nor long-term.

i think their are lots of people on this forum who think maximum media exposure is good for genre. maybe the people who tried to take techno to the masses should be held partly responsible. i think some people seem to forget why they got into techno in the first place. when you take something that has cult status to the media playground then things just dont seem fun anymore.

[Sunil]

But if all you listen to all day is techno and then you go to try and make techno.. you will inevitably, unnoticingly, mimic something you have heard.. even if you don't mean to.
Thus the whole incestuous, samey shit we are hearing a lot of.

Booooo

Go listen to something else people

Yeah, for sure.
In general though, **** techno. The reason the likes of Landstrumm or whoever make techno with an edge is because they're no slaves to techno. They have a passion for more music outside of techno, and realise it's not the be all and end all. I mean, Scandanavia for instance is not a strictly techno label, yet it still serves up some of the best techno going when it feels like it. I like their style :cool:

[RDR]

100% agree with jamie.

Nerds ruin any music. a good example, i have a friend who spent three years at university.. loves his techno, loves his house and drum n bass. he knows a shit load about phase shaping, wave structure, he's written his own programs on his graphing calculator to deal with some complex shit...

he has yet to finish a piece of music that doesnt sound like it was painted by numbers.

As for listening to other music... you damn right, thats the KEY MOFO'ing word. MUSIC its like reading onlly mills and boon, you'll get a wet pussy for a guy in a suit, but not for good looking guys in generaL.

read all the books and you can get a slippy lips for any kind of fella.

listen to all the music, man thats why i love techno, it doesnt **** about when it comes to taking influences, there isnt a big broo ha ha about it like the sort of bollox sting comes out with 'yeah man i went to the jungle and found a guy with a flute' sod off you turd. techno artists do that anyway, except we use pots and ****ing pans and junkyards and sample CDS and ripped dialogue off the radio and the tv and films and we synthesize it and sample it.

Techno has a massively broad pallete of musical influences, and those that dont use them are infants.

[RDR]

just as an aside, i never really liked using the phrase techno producer with people who dont know what im talking about... i always though electronic music producer was a bit more accurate even though it sounds vaguer. And i dont mean it in a poncy way neither.. :lol:

[holotropik]

just as an aside, i never really liked using the phrase techno producer with people who dont know what im talking about... i always though electronic music producer was a bit more accurate even though it sounds vaguer. And i dont mean it in a poncy way neither.. :lol:

Yep.. I find I do the same thing although I say "Dance music" and then when asked further "Nasty farkin jackin machinemusic"....

usually they then ask me something else....hehehe.

[Col]

Techno has a massively broad pallete of musical influences, and those that dont use them are infants.

yeah, your right. sometimes techno sounds like house.

[The Divide]

I’m not particularly interested in a 'retro' revival, but I would love to see people writing music the old way. The way I see it is the secret ingredient is both midi and single hits. That’s just technique, something which can be reapplied to all music over and over. This is noticeable in older techno music. This is why, for me older techno is a bigger influence than the newer techno. Not really the main influence tho, I find myself listening to pretty much everything these days. It boils back down to whats already been said, the lack of musical ability. This isnt just techno thats facing this problem tho, its happening in many genre's right now and is a product of software been more advanced and widley available

I think the scenes missing new blood, go out these days and the dance floor is like a geriatric ward. Also these who act like their the next ‘avant-garde‘ innovator of techno don’t really seem to be doing anything really new for me anyways. They mean nothing to me when compared to people who really screw around with gear and software, do circuit bending or obscure multimedia audio visual type shows. Those are the unsung heroes of techno who with odd exception, are distanced from ‘techno music’ or stuff in the clubs anyways. So its not really just down to musical ability I think, its also technical ability. Look at how easy it is to use Ableton to mash up loops. Could be part of the problem on why there is a lot of plap around perhaps

I think younger people are more interested in attitude and edginess anyways. As been said previously “how much it rocks!” I would like to see more artists with musical ability, technical ability and attitude or aggression. There are some but there needs to be more. I don’t think the minimal thing will last that long as there’s no attitude in it. Nor do I care really. I would like to see more hard techno tho, not so much the scranze but the stuff in the middle. The stuff we all love

[The Divide]

Jamie, your obsession with the ninja’s disturbs me :lol: :clap:

[The Divide]

I know where your coming from tho

http://www.tdk.co.jp/techmag/ninja/daa00381.gif

[The Divide]

Wouldn’t it be funny if all this philosophical talk about past, present & future lead us to the possibility that has nothing to do with time and everything to do with the amount of ketamin in E. That this was slowing down electronic music, ****ing checkout the dubstep floating around, some would say thats slowed down minimal drum and bass

Oooo errrr

Could techno really be drug music?

Someone should invent some new drugs in the amphetamine family which we can push on school kids and bring back the rave scene. That way when they mature and move on we got a load of potential customers to sell record to!

Then again all that could be total bollocks!

[rhythmtech]

quick question for you divide.

whats your opinion on "dancefloor" techno... do you think theres anyway for it to move forward and if so, which way? as i said earlier "listening" techno (which is what i would consider your stuff ie: not 100% dancefloor) is a lot more open for progression because it doesnt have the strict rules that dancefloor stuff sometimes needs...

just wondering on your thoughts...

also. where the bloody hell cann i get museum of skulls in digital format cause i'd love to play it out!!!

[xfive]

I think the scenes missing new blood, go out these days and the dance floor is like a geriatric ward. Also these who act like their the next ‘avant-garde‘ innovator of techno don’t really seem to be doing anything really new for me anyways. They mean nothing to me when compared to people who really screw around with gear and software, do circuit bending or obscure multimedia audio visual type shows. Those are the unsung heroes of techno who with odd exception, are distanced from ‘techno music’ or stuff in the clubs anyways. So its not really just down to musical ability I think, its also technical ability. Look at how easy it is to use Ableton to mash up loops. Could be part of the problem on why there is a lot of plap around perhaps

Yes but you gotta watch out because a lot of times those guys turn out to make music that is creative... but has no real soul.
Its just a smoke screen of tricks.
Music for poncy chinstrokers, that no one else will dig.

[The Divide]

Like who?

Riche Hawtin?

[xfive]

hahaha

[The Divide]

I guess you mean like 'shitmat'. Went to see that guy live out of interest, was crazy but had no soul. All tricks and no soul like you say. But that’s not really what I was getting at. Take this as an example…

You know Luke Slater’s rmx of Joey Beltrams record 'forklift'?

When Beltram made the original he made a sound which sounded kind of unique at the time by shaping a synth patch into a certain new sound.

Right then Luke Slater came along and did the rmx but with he wasnt screwing around with the synth, he was screwing around with that crazy filter gating and alll kinds of headwreakering mangling going off.

Ok fast forwards to now, both records are quality but sound outdated. Both at the time featured somekinda trick, technique which was unique at the time. This was combined with the expression of the artist, ie they made it rock. It was a merger of man and machine. So my point?

Were already seeing a wide range of amazing things appearing in the reaktor series, synths which play themselves. I think the next direction in techno won’t be people using machines to manipulate sound but creating and changing their own machines. Rewiring these machines, implementing them into their sound.

Think like AI nightmare technology thats programmed to be evil and sounds like a demented robot ninja on a crack cocaine snuggling pirate ship but killing off the pirates one by one with its pulse weapon of doom. Capturing that machine and working with it, as a partnership, sampling it and arranging into a tune

Even take the machine out and play it live!

But anyways my point is, as long as there’s new technology afloat there’s always going to be new ways of making crazy noises.

Infact Im VERY excited about something at the mo. Checkout the seventh generation of consoles, the developers have spent millions into building the graphics and modeling environment but are now faced by a huge and new challenge. How the **** do you put sound to something that’s physically modeled eg water for example.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3140617

Note there is no sound

This is why the budget for people doing the sounds has been increased from 2% to 5%. So what’s the relevance of this?? Well let me say this, I dont care about consoles and gaming because it’s too big a distraction anyways. But what we are going to see some pretty amazing things new new toys in the coming years. New ways of screwing with things. Techno mite even become interactive and become visual experience too.

[xfive]

Oh no I completely agree with you. The technology is the way forward for sure, and it's getting more and more exciting each week.

I just think that sometimes some people blow the "smoke screen" guys way out of proportion.. which boggles my mind, as the music is just wank.

[The Divide]

Im not sure I follow, any examples of smoke screen guys who get hyped?

I was thinking down the lines of Inigo Kennedy, Monolake, really liking Si Begg's audio video mashup thing, I hear Luka likes his machines too. The people who get blown out of proportion for me are the likes of Hawtin, dont get me wrong I like Hawtin and respect what he does but I tend to see a lot of hype and not much substance surrounding a lot of the new stuff he does.

Also there are hundreds of thousands of people screwing things with things and never getting anywhere, but im sure that are not what a lot of these people are trying to do (circuit benders especially). Sometimes it’s about doing something for yourself and nobody else. Someone I also know spends a lot of time making weird pieces of music, its propper random. Hes got no intentions on signing it to anyone tho. Just sticks them out on the web. Now musically I mite not 'get it' but I sure can appreciate it and find inspirational in it as its a great deal more creative than some of the lazy shit that gets put out (incliding, dare I say, my own releases). If anything it teaches you something, right or wrong its better than music thats a total rehash and does nothing

Not arguing or anything, I think I have a diff angle on how I look at things or something

[dirty_bass]

As much as I adore avante garde electronica.
We must also remember that dance music is a predominently tribal thing.
The trancelike state that gives you the high from music does require SOME repetition.
And we are talking about dance music.
So experimentalism is fantastic, but it can go too far, and just become noodle crap that no one will dance too.
Lets not forget, standing in front of a stupidly large stack of speakers, and going spastic.

[The Divide]

Of course

[SlavikSvensk]

there;s an obvious diff between using repetition and being repetitive ;)

[Col]

I think the scenes missing new blood, go out these days and the dance floor is like a geriatric ward. Also these who act like their the next ‘avant-garde‘ innovator of techno don’t really seem to be doing anything really new for me anyways. They mean nothing to me when compared to people who really screw around with gear and software, do circuit bending or obscure multimedia audio visual type shows. Those are the unsung heroes of techno who with odd exception, are distanced from ‘techno music’ or stuff in the clubs anyways. So its not really just down to musical ability I think, its also technical ability. Look at how easy it is to use Ableton to mash up loops. Could be part of the problem on why there is a lot of plap around perhaps

Yes but you gotta watch out because a lot of times those guys turn out to make music that is creative... but has no real soul.
Its just a smoke screen of tricks.
Music for poncy chinstrokers, that no one else will dig.

if i want soul i'll listen to otis redding.

some people like to be stimulated.

[Analog.1]

I think 'proper' technos closest relation is ancient tribal rhythms. 'Proper' techno has recreated this magic with modern technology what has opened up new possibilities. Re-examing ancient tribal rhythms in the purest form may uncover some new openings.

[holotropik]

To take full advantage of the essence of the tribal rhythm the artist must be in a certain state of mind and have the intent and knowledge to pull this off in a soulful/spiritual way. A state of mind if you will. Its a bit mind over matter and seeing the music in your head and incorporate the feelings you wish to convey. You must be able to project your feelings into the machine/instrument and bend it to your will....ask any accomplished musician and he/she will say the same thing.

Some artists/DJs I know do this or have this ability. Most are more concerned with formula and trends in order to write/play music that will sell to the punters now in a more jukebox type of style....more like pop music rather than something more soulful.

But, hey, thats what the masses want - easy to swallow trendy music that doesnt ask too much of them. So thats what is driving the music scene rather than peopple who want something that takes them completely and asks them to participate in it rather than be bystanders watching it pass by like a sportscar.

[The Divide]

just wondering on your thoughts...

also. where the bloody hell cann i get museum of skulls in digital format cause i'd love to play it out!!!

Its a good question, I was told there would be a digital release and by the looks of it there never was. Send me a pm with your email addy and I will sort something