A small theorem

[Ritzi Lee]

Techno records sell BIG,
if and only if there's a BIG name on it!!

True or false?

[Jimfish]

It certainly helps, but i wouldnt say all of the time.
If a track gets picked up by everyone it can blow right up.
Or if the label has a big profile it can sell big with lesser known artists.

Most of the time though i'd be inclined to agree.. sad but true

[Esox Lucius]

yeah i would agree.

[herman]

virtually no techno sells "big" anymore . sad but true

[MARKEG]

yeah.. but i'll looking at this question in the context of 'does putting a big name on a techno record help it sell'.

the answer is of course yes.

[DJ Corbzy]

yes it does, if i was to start a label i would get a big name like henry or c lib to remix it...then it will sell

[tioneb]

if the music is good it can help the sales more than the artist on the record... emergence is a big example imo =)))) they didnt wait to get issue the remixes to be sold out after first week.

[tioneb]

if the music is good it can help the sales more than the artist on the record... emergence is a big example imo =)))) they didnt wait to get issue the remixes to be sold out after first week.

[wenna]

......quality sells imo. how do 'big names' get big???

[Jimfish]

corbz: what herman means is that the sales arent what they used to be, and he is right. When we refer to a 'big' seller we can only speak relativly to sales at this point in time. Which are not what they used to be. I cant see a record selling 'big' in current terms just because it has chris lib/dave on it. I think if you anylise sales you will find Hermans school of techno outsells london stuff on an average release. Nothing against the music, Its just a broader sound than london techno.
I know a fair few artists people would consider 'big' who are pretty damn skint at the mo. :( :cry:

[Col]

Techno records sell BIG,
if and only if there's a BIG name on it!!

True or false?

its more likley, but not entirley true.

[Ritzi Lee]

I realised how ****ed up the market for techno is. As a label it's logical to make such radical steps. When doing some releases with Chris L or Umek or Rush or whatever, you can sell like 5000 copies avarage...

If you have a great record that all the DJ's play. And your tracks are screaming constantle through all the major parties, it really doesn't matter. It won't sell that much if your name is unknown. Mostly 600 / 700 copies will do.

[Ritzi Lee]

Techno records sell BIG,
if and only if there's a BIG name on it!!

True or false?

its more likley, but not entirley true.

myself i really don't care who made the tracks.
If it rocks i will have them!!
But unfortunately not all people are like that.

[tioneb]

I realised how **** up the market for techno is. As a label it's logical to make such radical steps. When doing some releases with Chris L or Umek or Rush or whatever, you can sell like 5000 copies avarage...

If you have a great record that all the DJ's play. And your tracks are screaming constantle through all the major parties, it really doesn't matter. It won't sell that much if your name is unknown. Mostly 600 / 700 copies will do.

that used to be true but it isnt nowadays ... as hernan said all techno market has gone down.... just as an example, a promoter told me sls used to sell around 5000 each release and it came down to 3000 though the quality has increased so much. 3000 still remains big but im sure you wouldnt feel happy to earn almost half fewer than what you used to earn

[FORCE 5]

[/quote]
myself i really don't care who made the tracks.
If it rocks i will have them!!
But unfortunately not all people are like that.[/quote]

Id totally agree with ya there Matey..when i go shopping i like to pick up stuff thats unusual to me and give it a listen..

As for having a big name on a record helping it sell,Well id say sure if i see a tune thats got a big name on it that i like,for example Chris lib,henry cullen,sure id grab it straight away and have a listen..But if the track is shite there is no way ill buy it just because of the name..

we could go on to ask the same qeustions about labels...

If i got my tune on a bigtime label will it sell faster or more?
I could strike it lucky and get SUF to release one of my tunes,but its always gonna come down to qaulity..just cause its on SUF doesnt mean its the bisinuss...although if you were an unknown tryin to make a break,getting your tune on a well known label is just as gooda start as having a big name on it or remixing it..

god knows,im an unkown trying to get a bit of breakfast...and probablly dont know enough to be voiceing my full opinion on this...But there it is 8)

[DJ Corbzy]

corbz: what herman means is that the sales arent what they used to be, and he is right. When we refer to a 'big' seller we can only speak relativly to sales at this point in time. Which are not what they used to be. I cant see a record selling 'big' in current terms just because it has chris lib/dave on it. I think if you anylise sales you will find Hermans school of techno outsells london stuff on an average release. Nothing against the music, Its just a broader sound than london techno.
I know a fair few artists people would consider 'big' who are pretty damn skint at the mo. :( :cry:

oh right i get what you mean, i dont really have that big of a knowledge outside london techno...if im following any techno style it would be the english boys and a bit of hard german techno like kramer and drizzly techno sub labels... :)

[MARKEG]

i produce on both style of labels (london and techno) so i know that a big techno release can way outsell a big london acid techno release.

anyway...

the thing is this isn't the rosey industry alot of ppl think it is. it's sad to say but most ppl in techno really struggle. so many time i hear ppl telling me a certain techno artist must be minted and it's such a disillusion.

the fact is some of the biggest techno names out there are having real problems surviving. they alway have and they always will. they move too quick to make money. it's their own downfall! but it's what keep the techno movement so exciting!!!!! and ultimately why they do it!!!

[Dustin Zahn]

Yeah, you'd be surprised. Sometimes a "big name" producer will sell records just for the name, but often feel the label name is even more responsible than the artist sometimes.

The fact is, we all know techno sales are in the shitter, and many big name techno DJs pockets' are wearing thin.

At the end of the day if some popular techno artist puts out a shitty record it will still sell, but not as good as one of their "hits."
Instead of selling maybe 6,000 of their hit, this shitty record with their name will sell say...2 or 3,000.

I can think of a few swedish guys who gave some tracks to American labels. These swedish guys usually push about 4,000 records, I am not even sure if their u.s. releases pushed 1,500+ records...and its because the tracks sucked. (And no, I'm not thinking about Headroom)

[crime]

I'm skint..
I don't let it bother me though.. Once money becomes a priority everything gets messed up....The best music comes from struggle...

[Dustin Zahn]

The best music comes from struggle...


Nice quote!

[miasma man]

I agree, you have to be in it for the right reasons hopefully cos you love music more than money - what makes you happy? A good topic.

[BritishMurderBoy]

ampassasinbirmingham: well if your starting a label u nearly always get somebody fairly well known to do a remix. I think mr eg did it and many others too. it is sometimes a case of people selling out, but in other cases like Blackout audio it was just a way of stamping your feet in the scene, letting people know what BA is all about, so when ure next release comes out people pay attention.

its not always the case of a big name appearing on the record for sales. if your record is an abselute belter and the distributers dont get it about enough, then it might not catch on. if you include somebody well known on a record it almost brings familiarity to the record.

[BritishMurderBoy]

......quality sells imo. how do 'big names' get big???

thats an interesting point... due to the nature of techno it is not affected at all by outside influences such as the media... i cant turn on ITV1 and watch "techno academy" or see an advert for the next release on downwards so i would agree that a producer in the techno world who sells lots of recods is going to have had a lot of respect at some point during his/her career..

conversley a pop artist can become famous over night due to the advances of mass media and global capitalism....

[DJZeMig_L]

seems I lots the train a bit here...

so quickly.. 4 a fact only good music doesn't sell, luck and A VERY GOOD DISTRIBUTION/ HYPE will do it 4 sure...

I've had some stuff on a few resonably big labels still ain't doing more than 2000-3000... so only being on a big label doesn't cut it...
2nd evidence - I know some very big names how released some really nice trackz (imho) under an unknow guise.. they did fuc*in 600 copies!?!? and the trackz really ripped it up nicely!!

Why does a big name sell lots more even if tracks ain't that special??
Well most rec. shops buy what they'll think will sell, 2 much stuff is coming out each day so they can't b bothered 2 listen 2 everything.. so let's take the easy wait out!! THE SHOPS R PLAYING A BIG ROLE IN THIS...

E-Shops .. should make the difference, and they do BUT most people ain't as pationate as we r so they won't listen 2 absolutly everything looking 4 those especial records... Fuc* labels, Fuc* distrib., Fuc* Names.. we want good music :!: SIMPLE AS THAT!

So who do U sell get a big label (if u start one invest in a few big name remixes), make tracks that sound like some1 famous, find a good distribuitor, master at Nielz 8form the Exchange)... lol...

Or keep your soul do what u like ... CRIME is keeping it legal! ;)

my 2 cents,

Z

[Ritzi Lee]

ampassasinbirmingham: well if your starting a label u nearly always get somebody fairly well known to do a remix. I think mr eg did it and many others too. it is sometimes a case of people selling out, but in other cases like Blackout audio it was just a way of stamping your feet in the scene, letting people know what BA is all about, so when ure next release comes out people pay attention.


Well i'll tell you something funny. I allready had everything to do a label for like 2 years now. But i really started my label this year because of a very surprised offer from a distribution who accidently spotted my tracks. That was 4 months ago. In these 4 months we only did some PR / promotion that a first release is comming up. Now everyone in the Benelux is waiting... and it won't matter how long it takes. I have 3 tracks of my own. The master sounds really great!! And now i'm waiting for a remix for one of my tracks. (the producer behind this is still a secret. sorry!!)




its not always the case of a big name appearing on the record for sales. if your record is an abselute belter and the distributers dont get it about enough, then it might not catch on. if you include somebody well known on a record it almost brings familiarity to the record.

Yes indeed. And it will help to get your records faster through the big distributions. Especially the ones in Germany. The biggest offers are over there. Half of the work is done for me, cause i have a good distribution behind me who works for the full 100% to promote my record all over.

[Ritzi Lee]

......quality sells imo. how do 'big names' get big???

thats an interesting point... due to the nature of techno it is not affected at all by outside influences such as the media... i cant turn on ITV1 and watch "techno academy" or see an advert for the next release on downwards so i would agree that a producer in the techno world who sells lots of recods is going to have had a lot of respect at some point during his/her career..

conversley a pop artist can become famous over night due to the advances of mass media and global capitalism....

In Holland we have ID%T radio and also some fancy magazines. All good instruments to promote your label. In Germany there are even more of these kinds like Kiss FM and Groove magazine and so on... So there is enough possibility to create some attention.

[Kangxi]

good discussion.

just out of curiosity can anyone mention how much a producer gets for say, a two track relaese on one of the bigger labels? would they be paid a flat fee and a royalty for each copy sold?

[DJAmok]

I´d say distribution is everything. I´m experiencing it myself, my Record on Highball with Discomania Distribution has sold over 2000 copies in a manth, whereas my Artillery releases, although better, haven´t even sold 1000 yet :cry:

[The Overfiend]

Yeah, you'd be surprised. Sometimes a "big name" producer will sell records just for the name, but often feel the label name is even more responsible than the artist sometimes.

The fact is, we all know techno sales are in the shitter, and many big name techno DJs pockets' are wearing thin.

At the end of the day if some popular techno artist puts out a shitty record it will still sell, but not as good as one of their "hits."
Instead of selling maybe 6,000 of their hit, this shitty record with their name will sell say...2 or 3,000.

I can think of a few swedish guys who gave some tracks to American labels. These swedish guys usually push about 4,000 records, I am not even sure if their u.s. releases pushed 1,500+ records...and its because the tracks sucked. (And no, I'm not thinking about Headroom)

I know exactly what producer and what label you're talking about, ain't it the truth.

[davethedrummer]

renato cohen pontape
like it or hate it it was not only massive but it refloated renatos almost finished djing career overnight, sold thousands , got renato all over the world, gave him tons more wok on other very respected labels.

what did it?

money.

more money makes money.
if you are clever you know your industry your target audience and your territorys.
you have deals in place with all major distributors, media/advertising , and shops
and you have the worlds most famous dj spearheading your label
playing the track to death all over the world.

and like mit or hate it it is good for what it is
it is well produced , sounds the same everywhere you play it , and works on the dancefloor (why i don't know but it does)

so there you go having a BIG name on you record doesn't mater a toss.
having a lot of money and a rigorous sense of good business will sell records galore

i reckon anyway