you will shoot me for saying it but....

[davethedrummer]

where's all the GOOD tunes gone?
at the moment i've got a bag full of mediocre stuff , stuff thats good to mix , tracks that have nice grooves etc
but nothing at all close to the music we had 4/5 years ago
and i don't really mean acid at all
i mean techno , all kinds , marco bailey , luke slater , maro picotto , big tracks
anthemic maybe , cheesy yes sure , but they were gems and when you played them the room went off.

i mean some of the techno i hear now is ok maybe for the uk , but elsewhere it just sucks , it's to tribal , too washing machiney with no substantial idea to lift it up and to make people think wow what was that?

to be honest there's way more in the way of real new ideas in the minimal and electro music i'm hearing now than in the kind of techno i have been playing.

and i'm thinking.....this can't be it.....can it!

we need TUNES , real jump up raving out of you head anthems , not more heads down , tribal washing machine grooves or cut up hip hop unintelligable vocal mish mashes.

a spot of melody , an acid line , but a concept , and a strong original one ,
thats what rocks the dancefloor evrywhere!

i reckon it's time to sit down and think , where is this trac going to go???.....before you even switch the studio on.

we ....i ...need it please talented people let's do this thing right !

now load that second barrel and aim at my head


booom!

[Si the Sigh]

Why would anyone shoot you over your comments? It's all true. Will go into more detail with my thoughts another day for I have to dash now...

Antiworld me up!

[Athar]

i realy miss for techno music we had .... 10/12 years ago!
but hell yeah 2002 or 2003 were great years for techno music
now is a lot of shit or sounding still same records around,
question is why ?
lazy producers ?
not too many talented producers ?


no

we all need fresh new blood with new ideas.
come on boys!

[Electrictribe]

bring back the breakbeats, acid and trancier elements.

[nihilist]

it's all very true in my opinion, personally i've taken a break from most things techno over the last few months, got tired of banging my head on the wall, it's a sad fact that in some parts of the uk techno has died. i dont know why maybe it's just a lull but poeple just ain't into anymore. maybe the lack of quality tunes is due to this? maybe computers have made it easyer and cheaper to make music so the user just doesn't understand how to do it.
maybe the web has opened every thing up to much that lots off stuff just gets lost. maybe im talking bollox, but i good point henry... (the new tracks are in the post)

[Aratron]

where's all the GOOD tunes gone?
at the moment i've got a bag full of mediocre stuff , stuff thats good to mix , tracks that have nice grooves etc
but nothing at all close to the music we had 4/5 years ago
and i don't really mean acid at all
i mean techno , all kinds , marco bailey , luke slater , maro picotto , big tracks
anthemic maybe , cheesy yes sure , but they were gems and when you played them the room went off.

i mean some of the techno i hear now is ok maybe for the uk , but elsewhere it just sucks , it's to tribal , too washing machiney with no substantial idea to lift it up and to make people think wow what was that?

to be honest there's way more in the way of real new ideas in the minimal and electro music i'm hearing now than in the kind of techno i have been playing.

and i'm thinking.....this can't be it.....can it!

we need TUNES , real jump up raving out of you head anthems , not more heads down , tribal washing machine grooves or cut up hip hop unintelligable vocal mish mashes.

a spot of melody , an acid line , but a concept , and a strong original one ,
thats what rocks the dancefloor evrywhere!

i reckon it's time to sit down and think , where is this trac going to go???.....before you even switch the studio on.

we ....i ...need it please talented people let's do this thing right !

now load that second barrel and aim at my head


booom!

95% of most of the stuff released is pure drivel. but stuff by fat collective imo is cutting edge. odd gem gets released now and again,(route 60 for example) i'm just more discriminatory about the money i spend.

electro, minimal, break is still complete wank shite as far as i'm concerned , you can shove it up your ass and get the **** out of an acid techno forum for me (this is not aimed directly at you mr dave the drummer.) but i do understand that music scenes move on.
i think the problem is that most of the music today is just drivel designed on pcs programs by mediocre artists.

[theledge]

where's all the GOOD tunes gone?
at the moment i've got a bag full of mediocre stuff , stuff thats good to mix , tracks that have nice grooves etc
but nothing at all close to the music we had 4/5 years ago
and i don't really mean acid at all
i mean techno , all kinds , marco bailey , luke slater , maro picotto , big tracks
anthemic maybe , cheesy yes sure , but they were gems and when you played them the room went off.

i mean some of the techno i hear now is ok maybe for the uk , but elsewhere it just sucks , it's to tribal , too washing machiney with no substantial idea to lift it up and to make people think wow what was that?

to be honest there's way more in the way of real new ideas in the minimal and electro music i'm hearing now than in the kind of techno i have been playing.

and i'm thinking.....this can't be it.....can it!

we need TUNES , real jump up raving out of you head anthems , not more heads down , tribal washing machine grooves or cut up hip hop unintelligable vocal mish mashes.

a spot of melody , an acid line , but a concept , and a strong original one ,
thats what rocks the dancefloor evrywhere!

i reckon it's time to sit down and think , where is this trac going to go???.....before you even switch the studio on.

we ....i ...need it please talented people let's do this thing right !

now load that second barrel and aim at my head


booom!

well ive never been bang into keeping track of every release despite buying techno records for many years now, BUT

19/20 techno tracks have ALWAYS been shit, in my opinion. ive always had to root through tonnes of chaff to get to the wheat

i did however go shopping for an hour or two of new techno the other week

obviously listened to a lot of shit. but i ended up with what i can honestly say is possibly the best hour or two's worth of techno records i've ever owned

i played them out and they worked on the dancefloor too, dramatically

i went to a squat party in london last month and saw a live pa from jason leach aka subhead . ****ing hell it was unbelievably good, driving synth driven techno, powerful uplifting positive and generally all round havin it

so here, you must listen to 800 times more techno records than me literally. but that's my recent experience and it's pretty good

[Aratron]

well ive never been bang into keeping track of every release despite buying techno records for many years now, BUT

19/20 techno tracks have ALWAYS been shit, in my opinion. ive always had to root through tonnes of chaff to get to the wheat

like i say i am even more out of touch with releases than ever these days, but i spent a few evenings online the other week before i played at a free party for the first time in a couple of years

obviously listened to a lot of shit. but i ended up with what i can honestly say is possibly the best hour or two's worth of techno records i've ever owned

i played them out and they worked on the dancefloor too, dramatically

i went to a squat party in london last month and saw a live pa from jason leach aka subhead . ****ing hell it was unbelievably good, driving synth driven techno, powerful uplifting positive and generally all round havin it

so here, you must listen to 800 times more techno records than me literally. but that's my recent experience and it's pretty good

:clap:

[davethedrummer]

well good for you mr ledge i'm glad you found some good stuff
you totally have a point about crap always being there records too , but i still think the ratio of good tracks to crap is way too low these days.
i've been through just about everything on juno for the last few weeks and really nothing to write home about.
and i need some replacments not just a f£cking 6 minute drum a f£ckin finger on the table along to and fall asleep into your beer to.

ok you're going to say , use this shop or that shop its loads better etc etc ....and yeah i would if i had all day to do it ( too busy polishing the bentley and rolls ) , i'd go through every shop in the bloody world , but there just isn't enough time.
specially with internet record shops... it's like asking your mate in leeds to drive down to turn the bloody record over so you can listen to the other side.....

...." hey marky egg i'm all done with that side , could you leg it down here to flip it over for me , and maybe crash my browser while your doing it and possibly mail my credit card details to a load of gangsters in china while you're at it ?"

"f£ck off i'm havin' me tea!"...

..chris lib said a while ago , all this minimal stuff is crap ( just like that ) , why doesn't someone really break the rules and make a minimal track at 150 bpm or something ?
and i agree with that point.
and a while back people were taking a few risks like that , and it was good i thought.

but now its the safety net all the way for everyone
and thats the bit I don't like

yeah maybe it was a crap tune 5 years ago , but at least the guy was trying , not like now when a crap tune is just a waste of vinyl/time.

no , there are people on this forum who are in a position to positively push the music forward , me included and we are not doing it


why?

another rant sorry about that.

[psychochick]

..chris lib said a while ago , all this minimal stuff is crap ( just like that ) , why doesn't someone really break the rules and make a minimal track at 150 bpm or something ?




good idea , sort it out

[lunatrick]

hard techno is on it's way out (for now) - you just got to accept it - mutate and survive right?.....the thing is if you slow your set down to around 125 - 128 bpm the range of records that become available to you opens up massively, and things are just far more groovy, and you have more choice of peak time bangers....it sounds to me like you need those big anthem bangers cos you do big gigs abroad where you need that peak, those 'when I rock' 'born slippy' moments......thats what the kids want - fair enough.

I used to love going to the end to listen layo and bushwacka play all night - they play all sorts of trippy wonky tech glitch minimal whatever......just because the music is slower doesn't mean it's not hard...

At the same time more commercial dj's like sven vath still play to 4000 peeps in ibiza everyyear - he's considered the biggest techno dj in the world and yet I doubt he ever goes above 130bpm...this has been happening for years now.

I know what your saying - listening to the techo section on juno is dispressing these days - I'm starting not to bother....

personally labels like olmeto, traum, cocoon are doing it for me these days. On the washing machine point - no offence (I've defended and played and supported this scene for the last decade) but I've heard no end of clubbers describe london techno as washing machine and been turned off by it.........

[christian wagner]

I think that generally, mist dance music, in all its forms, have gone too trendy for its own good. i mean, how many times have you been to a club / bar type place that plays the latest commercial and chart topping funky house and seen no-one dance all night??

Me? i see it every sodding week, then when they go to the next club they have a few more beers and dance to the same complete bullshite that was played 2 months ago.

I remember a few year back , say, at the turn of the millennuium, you couldgo to a club and hear, OK..proberble really commercial, but tolerable trance music, and it was stuff you could dance to and enjoy, it was a sensible pace and was ok....

Now though, for some reason, the music has to be painfully slow - even for dance music. and its suddenly uncool to dance, this may be cos of the housemates in big brother saying its uncool to dance which makes the masses think they cant....Trends again innit.

OK i know were not on about funky commercial house here, were talkin techno, but issit jist possible that it has a knock on effect down the line? cos all music trypes are linked in someway or another (mainly you copy 1 style thats selling heh)

I played at a bar place in ripley, Derbyshire other day, some lad put a bit of a free skaggy party on, so i asked for a set and he said ok, i took with me a bag full of tracks, that were funky, yet sensibly paced, basically stuff you can dance to which i thought would go own ok..

BOLLOX DID IT!!!! some Dj lad told me to play something SLOWER and FUNKIER with FEMALE VOCALS and that was IN THE CHART. you can imagine what i said in return...

I suppose what im sayin is, all music has gone crap and i reckon it has filterd down a little into other styles, so unfortunatle - its whatever the ****s fashionable!

I agree though Dave, i havnt heard anything really amazing, all too serious in my opinion, i fail to see why peple also cant stand the new SUF stuff either, a few arnt amazing, but t least they stick 2 jacks up and being 'cool' eh?

[christian wagner]

At the same time more commercial dj's like sven vath still play to 4000 peeps in ibiza everyyear - he's considered the biggest techno dj in the world and yet I doubt he ever goes above 130bpm...this has been happening for years now.

I know what you mean about the slower stuff being around for ages, but i think its the elements that are in the track that make it what it is nowadays, funky loops, camp guitar riffs and male love vocals are this summers hot thang...:)

Some of the best techno iv heard was about 130bpm, on an old vibealite tape of somekind but it was damm tough and had so many elements and trippy elements in it.

[nihilist]

keeping to question of why so many crap tunes not what peeps wanna hear when the go out allthough that is a good interesting topic.

i think it comes down to;

1) Location
2) Who you know
3) What you know
4) How much money you have
5) How much money you can afford to loose.

[fatcollective]

Henry I think your totally right. There is too much 'heads down bang bang' techno about these days, and I think we (fat collective) could be guilty of that. There isn’t enough ravey, atmospheric techno about these days. I know what ya mean by the older stuff, well to be honest not that old, for example the Horns track by Luke Slater was awesome and there simply aint enough of this big ravey techno about these days!! I do think a lot of it is down to: -

1. Being lazy in the studio
2. Keeping within your comfort zone

I think its right that everyone should have a good think before going in the studio and try and create something bigger than your usual, work harder on them synths and don’t quit and step back to your usual routine. Its something im definitely going to work on!!

It would be great for Henrys original message to be sent to everyone making techno in the UK especially all the young guns because it does need to be addressed and will make ya think before you get in the studio and of course the result would mean better UK techno, which would be great!!

[theledge]

well good for you mr ledge i'm glad you found some good stuff
you totally have a point about crap always being there records too , but i still think the ratio of good tracks to crap is way too low these days.
i've been through just about everything on juno for the last few weeks and really nothing to write home about.
and i need some replacments not just a f£cking 6 minute drum a f£ckin finger on the table along to and fall asleep into your beer to.

ok you're going to say , use this shop or that shop its loads better etc etc ....and yeah i would if i had all day to do it ( too busy polishing the bentley and rolls ) , i'd go through every shop in the bloody world , but there just isn't enough time.
specially with internet record shops... it's like asking your mate in leeds to drive down to turn the bloody record over so you can listen to the other side.....


fair enough can see you were making a broader point anyway. i agree it's almost too easy to make music now with computers and pirated software, made worse also with internet/mp3 distribution

maybe the standard has been lowered by the sheer volume of tracks and producers out there, and it needs some time to level out

[judas_beast]

Mayber someone should give ''unknown'' producers a chance?!

[christian wagner]

Mayber someone should give ''unknown'' producers a chance?!

Yeah, i also hate the phrase "Up and coming"

I do think that the way which tracks are made now are affecting the quality of the music to a degree, OK, theres a lot of tracks that are really wicked which were made on software set-ups, but i find it so bloody tedious staring at a screen at a flashy graphics software synth or some kind, id sooner stare at an akai screen and try to make something sound good with a small 32 segmant screen thing :) and i also love farting about with my pulse and its bloody awful interface, rather than a flashy nice looking synth.

I admit that my set-up is mainly software, but i do have some hardware kit which i use to break away from the boringness of screen stiring.

[fatcollective]

Yeah, i also hate the phrase "Up and coming"

I do think that the way which tracks are made now are affecting the quality of the music to a degree, OK, theres a lot of tracks that are really wicked which were made on software set-ups, but i find it so bloody tedious staring at a screen at a flashy graphics software synth or some kind, id sooner stare at an akai screen and try to make something sound good with a small 32 segmant screen thing :) and i also love farting about with my pulse and its bloody awful interface, rather than a flashy nice looking synth.

I admit that my set-up is mainly software, but i do have some hardware kit which i use to break away from the boringness of screen stiring.

i dont think software is the issue, i just think a lot more thought needs to go into production these days, because it is easy to get a beat and a perc loop and a bassline rolling together, its the synth arramgements and melodies within the tracks that are missing, so its all about working harder and trying stuff out of the comfort zone.

[christian wagner]

i dont think software is the issue, i just think a lot more thought needs to go into production these days, because it is easy to get a beat and a perc loop and a bassline rolling together, its the synth arramgements and melodies within the tracks that are missing, so its all about working harder and trying stuff out of the comfort zone.

But how easy is it to do that in software and sit back and go "that will do, it sounds ok" ?

If the process was harder and more time consuming, i think that people would put more effort into a track rather than doing one for the sake of it and because they have hundreds of pre-made loops ar their disposal.

Some people dont even get a pre-made loop and chop it up and mess with it, even thats a damm sight better then using plain loops!

I agree with you about melodies and synth arrangements, im not the best person at writing melodies but i do try haha..... (then fail!) :D

[nihilist]

do people really just put aload of standard loops together and call it a track?

[fatcollective]

do people really just put aload of standard loops together and call it a track?

i think some people do this but i dont think much of it gets released to be honest. i know loops get hammered these days though, thats why there is so much 'tribal' techno about or percussive style techno. i like some of it, but most is rather boring and goes on and on...

[nihilist]

using loops is just cheating yourself where's the chalange?

[fatcollective]

schranz is very loop based with a fvck load of distortion on top, it can sound good if ya get it right!! :ruevil:

[davethedrummer]

hard techno is on it's way out (for now) - you just got to accept it - mutate and survive right?.....the thing is if you slow your set down to around 125 - 128 bpm the range of records that become available to you opens up massively, and things are just far more groovy, and you have more choice of peak time bangers....it sounds to me like you need those big anthem bangers cos you do big gigs abroad where you need that peak, those 'when I rock' 'born slippy' moments......thats what the kids want - fair enough.

I used to love going to the end to listen layo and bushwacka play all night - they play all sorts of trippy wonky tech glitch minimal whatever......just because the music is slower doesn't mean it's not hard...

At the same time more commercial dj's like sven vath still play to 4000 peeps in ibiza everyyear - he's considered the biggest techno dj in the world and yet I doubt he ever goes above 130bpm...this has been happening for years now.

I know what your saying - listening to the techo section on juno is dispressing these days - I'm starting not to bother....

personally labels like olmeto, traum, cocoon are doing it for me these days. On the washing machine point - no offence (I've defended and played and supported this scene for the last decade) but I've heard no end of clubbers describe london techno as washing machine and been turned off by it.........


i totally agree
it's a shame , but there it is.

[davethedrummer]

the thing is chaps
production itself is not the issue here
it's WRITING thats the issue

i mean production , thats just about making things sound good right?
it doesn't really matter how you do it
as long as it works

and production has always been improved upon over the years
because we humans are just totally anal about what we listen too.

but writing , now thats different..

thats where you make descisions about key , pitch , rhythm , melody and most importantly concept

and thats the bit that is going astray
its the concept ( or lack of ) thats needed
we do need to hear some experimenting , and pretty damn soon.
cos the music is too safe
and i for one am getting close to giving up point now
cos there just isn't enought about to keep my set up to date with

all those key producers

bailey , sneo , beyer , henrik b , leibing , advent , krome , skoog and many more

all those guys would fill up my bag , and then i'd play a bit of london stuff to go with it
and it would work
but now it's just london , cos there just isn't anything else , and well thats just too london
even for me

i'm just still resisting , because i like the tempo of that music
and the groove

minimal is just too slow for me ( for a whole night anyway )
and schranz too fast ( for a whoile night)

we need mid paced techno

well i do anyway


more ideas

[Aratron]

how about more bland shite written on ableton?

[Si the Sigh]

bring back the breakbeats, acid and trancier elements.

Nail. Head.

[Si the Sigh]

Back to the roots, just like mnml.

[ds2]

..chris lib said a while ago , all this minimal stuff is crap ( just like that ) , why doesn't someone really break the rules and make a minimal track at 150 bpm or something ?
and i agree with that point.




:whoops: i can't believe i just read that.
it's been done already - where do you think the mnml thing came from?
download some rob hood or steve rachmad sets for inspiration.

as for there being no good techno around any more, there's certainly less quality hard stuff but the gems are there and i can't believe a big name dj (for want of a better phrase) is complaining he can't fjnd decent records while in the same sentence admits to only using juno. juno are one of the reasons there's so much shite around - they stock everything and anything with the sole purpose of blowing every other shop away - the good stuff sells out quickly so your left with pages and pages and pages of complete and utter drivel.

try some smaller shops before they all go bankrupt because of lazy juno shoppers, there's 6 shops i know of already that have closed this year and i'm sure there's a lot more up and down the country. the ones i know of all cite juno as the reason.

you produce records don't you? i dare say you're an inspiration to a lot of producers on this board and in the london / hard scene? stop moaning then and do something about it. :; :laughing:

[Si the Sigh]

Part of the problem IMHO is we are getting too many DAVE the Drummer clones banging out tracks at the moment. All high quality fillers, but no killers...

[davethedrummer]

:whoops: i can't believe i just read that.
it's been done already - where do you think the mnml thing came from?
download some rob hood or steve rachmad sets for inspiration.

as for there being no good techno around any more, there's certainly less quality hard stuff but the gems are there and i can't believe a big name dj (for want of a better phrase) is complaining he can't fjnd decent records while in the same sentence admits to only using juno. juno are one of the reasons there's so much shite around - they stock everything and anything with the sole purpose of blowing every other shop away - the good stuff sells out quickly so your left with pages and pages and pages of complete and utter drivel.

try some smaller shops before they all go bankrupt because of lazy juno shoppers, there's 6 shops i know of already that have closed this year and i'm sure there's a lot more up and down the country. the ones i know of all cite juno as the reason.

you produce records don't you? i dare say you're an inspiration to a lot of producers on this board and in the london / hard scene? stop moaning then and do something about it. :; :laughing:

ahh the juno reply
i knew that was coming
ok mate keep your hair on

[ds2]

ahh the juno reply
i knew that was coming
ok mate keep your hair on

i've got no hair left unfortunately :ohdear:

yes the juno reply - you're the one complaining you've got a bag full of mediocre records - and i dare say the ones you didn't pick up from tesco are probably promos from circuit producers who should've packed it in 5 years ago.

and they say techno's become stale, i wonder why? :;

[rhythmtech]

Part of the problem IMHO is we are getting too many DAVE the Drummer clones banging out tracks at the moment. All high quality fillers, but no killers...

i dont think this is the case at all.. i think a lot of producers may have started out trying to "copy" a certain style but this is just a learning period really.

off the top of my head i cant think of 1 producer who sounds like henry or lawrie.. i think possibly people are writing similiar styles but this is the same in every "scene".. how many indie bands are there doing the indie thing?

[Aratron]

ahh the juno reply
i knew that was coming
ok mate keep your hair on

:laughing:
even the God of Acid Techno makes mistakes

[RDR]

fair enough can see you were making a broader point anyway. i agree it's almost too easy to make music now with computers and pirated software, made worse also with internet/mp3 distribution

maybe the standard has been lowered by the sheer volume of tracks and producers out there, and it needs some time to level out

You are completely missing the point.

At NO stage does having accessible technology make the quality of the music go down. Where does it say that people enjoy making crap quality music, and what on earth makes people think that everything will get WORSE?

Its too easy to make music? No it isnt, the fundamentals of music didnt change overnight you know.

And how on earth is it made worse with internet distribution? What worse than the owners of a well known defunct distro piping up the crack and gambling 10k a week? worse than small minded distro owners raping the jesus out of artists who did nothing wrong other than be forced into a ropey P+D deal because there was **** all else for them to do?

Nowt personal but i get REALLY sick of people slagging this off (and yes i do have a vested interest, however im hardly likely to sell much through BOA so this is IMO fo course)

The MP3 and digital revoution is just that, move with the times or get swamped, the music industry changes.

In one respect there are many many many SHITE music writers out there, but the digital revolution gives people HOPE, it opens doors that were closed. And its ALWAYS the young who create and shape trends, rather than the OG's attempting to hang onto markets they created that no longer work.

I am a lover of techno, a fan of henry's stuff and and old orbit head, if techno is to survive and remain fresh it has to change and we have to undertsand that we might not like where its going. I for one dont care, i want to hear new - fresh - well produced and unusual music.

FFS - techno is about all those sounds you never heard before, so why do people moan when it changes?

[dubs]

I think there is still loads of great stuff coming out. One issue maybe that a lot of people writing don't come from a musical background so there may be less inclination to write tracks that move beyond a cartain style.

[RDR]

the thing is chaps
production itself is not the issue here
it's WRITING thats the issue

Thats true... but then there have always been producers who ignored this and did perfectly well.



bailey , sneo , beyer , henrik b , leibing , advent , krome , skoog and many more


ALL of them used loops too in one way or another. And all of them produced a million bollox pieces of music that never saw the light of day. the loops argument (scuse me if you did raise if mate) is dragged out YET again. Loops have their place. and if used within context can sound great.

[davethedrummer]

i've got no hair left unfortunately :ohdear:

yes the juno reply - you're the one complaining you've got a bag full of mediocre records - and i dare say the ones you didn't pick up from tesco are probably promos from circuit producers who should've packed it in 5 years ago.

and they say techno's become stale, i wonder why? :;

what are you talking about
tesco is a fantastic record shop !
much better than sainburys and cheaper too
and you buy a new pair of trousers and some salad at the same time.

[davethedrummer]

Thats true... but then there have always been producers who ignored this and did perfectly well.




ALL of them used loops too in one way or another. And all of them produced a million bollox pieces of music that never saw the light of day. the loops argument (scuse me if you did raise if mate) is dragged out YET again. Loops have their place. and if used within context can sound great.


no i didn't actually say anything about loops
at least i don't think i did
no it's nothing to do with that loops is loops i got nothing for or against them
anyway in hindsight i think this is all going a bit too negative
so i'm off down the shops to find some great new trax and i'll get back here when i've found something you can listen to and tell me if i'm just getting old and my taste in music is shit

not yet si...i said when i get back...it may not be until next year but.....

[RDR]

no i didn't actually say anything about loops
at least i don't think i did
no it's nothing to do with that loops is loops i got nothing for or against them
anyway in hindsight i think this is all going a bit too negative
so i'm off down the shops to find some great new trax and i'll get back here when i've found something you can listen to and tell me if i'm just getting old and my taste in music is shit

not yet si...i said when i get back...it may not be until next year but.....

Ooops, my bad... i'd started ranting there.

[nihilist]

it is getting very negative but then again i've noticed over the last few years to much of it, techno seems to have been split into so many subdivisions that its all or nothing for most poeple, it's either to fast to slow to hard etc. etc. what ever happened to just going to club to enjoy whatever dj's want to play?

forget tesco's get down to kwiksave they have loads of bankrupt stock going.

[RDR]

it is getting very negative but then again i've noticed over the last few years to much of it, techno seems to have been split into so many subdivisions that its all or nothing for most poeple, it's either to fast to slow to hard etc. etc. what ever happened to just going to club to enjoy whatever dj's want to play?

forget tesco's get down to kwiksave they have loads of bankrupt stock going.

Actually i wasnt being negative. cant speak for anyone else.

my stand point is: what the hell is techno anyway?

[ds2]

what are you talking about
tesco is a fantastic record shop !
much better than sainburys and cheaper too
and you buy a new pair of trousers and some salad at the same time.


you're right of course, i'm glad there's a tesco on every corner now... and they deliver!
i used to hate having to go in 3 or 4 different grocers to get my weekly shop,
fortunately i'll never have to do that again since all my local grocers are now closed
and boarded up.

[dirty_bass]

i dont think software is the issue, i just think a lot more thought needs to go into production these days, because it is easy to get a beat and a perc loop and a bassline rolling together, its the synth arramgements and melodies within the tracks that are missing, so its all about working harder and trying stuff out of the comfort zone.

Wow.
I was saying that about 2 years ago in this place, and got shot down for it.
Funny how times change.

Part of the problem to me is patience.
No one has any, any more.
People get a release, think they`ve made it, and then jam out the tracks, like a machine gun. And distributers will jump on any name they think is vaguely hot, as they are desperate for sales. so you see people appear, ram out loads of similar shit, then dissapear only for someone just the same to do the same.
There`s little personality going into it.
No thought going into it, just anything will do as long as you can mix with it.
If it`s a lazy production that does sod all, who cares, just mix another two tracks over it when you are on the decks.

What happened to those tunes that are still in your head when you get home?
those "what the **** was that??" moments, that make you duck for cover, or jump like a loon.

The way techno has gone, pretty much made me decide to stop releasing and producing for anything but live pa, until recently when I got a new wind.
the market was just full of nothing tracks for DJ`s, and I simply didn`t think I could contribute anything to that, not anything that I could genuinly feel good about producing myself.

I`ve finally got myself to a financially comfortable point, where I can continue to do just what the **** I want now, and experiment like crazy, without worrying about sales, and so I will be.

and I`m finding other people who are on the same tip now, hopefully I`ll be releasing their stuff, as no one else seems to want to risk it, more`s the pity.

More musicians, and less DJ`s is what we need.

[dirty_bass]

i dont think this is the case at all.. i think a lot of producers may have started out trying to "copy" a certain style but this is just a learning period really.

off the top of my head i cant think of 1 producer who sounds like henry or lawrie.. i think possibly people are writing similiar styles but this is the same in every "scene".. how many indie bands are there doing the indie thing?

There`s loads of producers who sound like Henry.
Similar basslines, even similar EQ distribution. riffs.
that`s a good compliment to Henry.

Lawrie I see less copied. (pounding grooves), but then it`s a slightly harder sound to achieve anyway (although it`s again, had henry`s hand in it anyway)

god bless ya henry
I just realised

You da man!!

[dirty_bass]

You are completely missing the point.

At NO stage does having accessible technology make the quality of the music go down. Where does it say that people enjoy making crap quality music, and what on earth makes people think that everything will get WORSE?

Its too easy to make music? No it isnt, the fundamentals of music didnt change overnight you know.

And how on earth is it made worse with internet distribution? What worse than the owners of a well known defunct distro piping up the crack and gambling 10k a week? worse than small minded distro owners raping the jesus out of artists who did nothing wrong other than be forced into a ropey P+D deal because there was **** all else for them to do?

Nowt personal but i get REALLY sick of people slagging this off (and yes i do have a vested interest, however im hardly likely to sell much through BOA so this is IMO fo course)

The MP3 and digital revoution is just that, move with the times or get swamped, the music industry changes.

In one respect there are many many many SHITE music writers out there, but the digital revolution gives people HOPE, it opens doors that were closed. And its ALWAYS the young who create and shape trends, rather than the OG's attempting to hang onto markets they created that no longer work.

I am a lover of techno, a fan of henry's stuff and and old orbit head, if techno is to survive and remain fresh it has to change and we have to undertsand that we might not like where its going. I for one dont care, i want to hear new - fresh - well produced and unusual music.

FFS - techno is about all those sounds you never heard before, so why do people moan when it changes?

Great post.
the mp3 revolution finally tips the balance back in the favour of the artists.
No longer held to ransom buy the ditribution machine, it frees the artist from trends, and sales fear, and the tastes of distributers.
It`s very empowering.

[davethedrummer]

you're right of course, i'm glad there's a tesco on every corner now... and they deliver!
i used to hate having to go in 3 or 4 different grocers to get my weekly shop,
fortunately i'll never have to do that again since all my local grocers are now closed
and boarded up.


well you could always get out in the garden and grown your own you lazy sod!
or have you forgotten where food comes from?

[rhythmtech]

There`s loads of producers who sound like Henry.
Similar basslines, even similar EQ distribution. riffs.


cant think of one to be honest :whoops:

care to name any names?

[dirty_bass]

cant think of one to be honest :whoops:

care to name any names?

I don`t wanna get into mud slinging.
Virtually all london techno not made by the original london techno heads bears a heavy streak of henry in it.
some more than others

[rhythmtech]

i dunno.. i think when you're talking within such specific genres its a little hard to liken artists to one another as the similarities are more within the sound than anything else.

[fatcollective]

a lot of techno does sound the same, most people have the same influences and this sprials into your tracks, i dont think anyone intends to copy anyone, i think its just a case of being into the same kinda sound.

[dan the acid man]

how about more bland shite written on ableton?

eh? how do you know which tracks have been written on ableton then? The answer is you can't, it doesn't matter what the music is written on, a badly written tune is a badly written tune, no matter if it was written on cubase, ableton, logic or pro tools.

Seems these days because alot of sales are down, even more people are jumping on the latest bandwagons to make ends meat.

I just wish every artist out there would write what comes out of their heart, that's whats lacking these days

[rhythmtech]

eh? how do you know which tracks have been written on ableton then? The answer is you can't, it doesn't matter what the music is written on, a badly written tune is a badly written tune, no matter if it was written on cubase, ableton, logic or pro tools.

Seems these days because alot of sales are down, even more people are jumping on the latest bandwagons to make ends meat.

I just wish every artist out there would write what comes out of their heart, that's whats lacking these days

exactly.. nothing to do with software.

sure werent some recent hydrualix done on ableton?

[Aratron]

eh? how do you know which tracks have been written on ableton then? The answer is you can't, it doesn't matter what the music is written on, a badly written tune is a badly written tune, no matter if it was written on cubase, ableton, logic or pro tools.

Seems these days because alot of sales are down, even more people are jumping on the latest bandwagons to make ends meat.

I just wish every artist out there would write what comes out of their heart, that's whats lacking these days

well i obviously made a crassly narrow-minded statement there based on 0% insight into music production, i have heard stuff from Force written on Ableton and it has sounded amazing and i know the divide writes stuff on cubase and that is shit hot aswell

however you look on todays techno on Juno, each track sounds the same or imo is boring as hell, thats why i love acidt echno at its best, its creative, funny, dark , emotional or at least it was.

[Little_Fella!]

Creativity, in my mind, is all about energy, drive, motivation and excitement about what you are creating...

When this has waned then it shows in finished product... tunes can be lacklustre with no sense of direction or purpose...

Developing purpose is the most important elixir for creativity...:)

[paulcortex]

its all in the trip...i love making trippy and spaced out sounds...and for me the tb303 fits the gap nicely...its not all about acid though...most tracks these days have lost the trippy edge....not hypnotic in the musical sense...they tend to rely on drum loops to do this...monotonous 909 drum loops with a smidge of compression and no real direction...i guess the change in the drugs scene hasnt helped...acid techno was born from the free party scene where people were mashed on pills and acid and craved the trippier sounds that Henry...Guy...Lawrie et all produced...then along came ketamine...great for sofa surfing at home...but on the dance floor it turned everone into techno mongs...and the music reflected this...i guess it will be hard to get it back to how it was....if thats whats required, personally i love the more old skool sound, with the real analogue sounds and more of a live feel, unfortunately the way technology is going its all to easy to knock a track up with no real thought and unfortunatley these tracks seem to be getting released.
Its mainly the labels faults for signing this crap. i guess techno (especially acid techno)has painted itself into a corner...and unless some serious rethinking is done then our favourite genre may just have its days numbered.

[AcidTrash]

Techno went up its own arse a while ago. The moment people started stigmatising tunes with a sense of humour as being hard dance or cheese.

This is why I dont bother coming out anymore. Who the hell wants to listen to 8 hours of glitched loops?

It was the drive for "intelligent techno" that screwed it all up. Feck that shoyte. I spend my weekdays chasing mice round my brain and getting wrinkles working about stuff. If I'm going out for a boogiie I want vacuous stupid predictable silliness I can bounce around to until I think my hearts going to explode.

The last tune I heard that fitted the description was Hotwire by 'is lordship. The first cheerful tune in ages.

[AcidTrash]

keeping to question of why so many crap tunes not what peeps wanna hear when the go out allthough that is a good interesting topic.

i think it comes down to;

1) Location
2) Who you know
3) What you know
4) How much money you have
5) How much money you can afford to loose.

EXACTLY.

[fatcollective]

Techno went up its own arse a while ago. The moment people started stigmatising tunes with a sense of humour as being hard dance or cheese.

This is why I dont bother coming out anymore. Who the hell wants to listen to 8 hours of glitched loops?

It was the drive for "intelligent techno" that screwed it all up. Feck that shoyte. I spend my weekdays chasing mice round my brain and getting wrinkles working about stuff. If I'm going out for a boogiie I want vacuous stupid predictable silliness I can bounce around to until I think my hearts going to explode.

The last tune I heard that fitted the description was Hotwire by 'is lordship. The first cheerful tune in ages.



u dont go to techno nights because your into scouse house ya nerd!! :rockin:

[Little_Fella!]

Techno went up its own arse a while ago. The moment people started stigmatising tunes with a sense of humour as being hard dance or cheese.

I would say 5 years ago at least this is what was going on... Not with everyone but elements of snootiness were around, which was in relation to Paul Cortex' comments there...

We didn't care tho and played all the Acid we had...

What about these babies that came from yourself Henry:

The Pusher, The Pimp & The Panther :rockin:
http://www.discogs.com/release/74820

Viagra Falls :fro:
http://www.discogs.com/release/31661

This Old World is in a Helluva Fix :psy:
http://www.discogs.com/release/56162

Hells bells, moments in time that I will never forget came from these tunes - what was going on in the studio that created these little beauties...?

Can the energy that went in to creating these tracks be harnessed again?

[phantomdj]

What are you after? techno that pushes the boundaries? Not scared to be the pioneer and actually experiment with soundscapes and the frequencies to which we are accustomed? You are right about modern techno all sounding the same. Stupid genre names like tech-house which really means (I make commercial music, but like to pretend I'm techno - the original concept))

I have a few acid techno sets from 1996 - 1998. All have crazy sounds and are experimental. hard tuneage that makes you want to stomp while your body is desperate to move in sync with each new wierd and wonderful sound. True organised chaos.

What happened to those experimental days? All the producers wanted more money and then watered down techno until it was received by a larger audience, thus rendering more income for the producers. The same thing happened in hard trance where they started producing watered down crap just to tap into the commercial market where massive income is to be earned. It does not take a brain surgeon to figure out that modern trance and techno has turned into a pathetic example of its original heritage.

It's the producers' fault and the listeners. You say things sound the same, yet you go and buy them. You know what I did when Hardcore (industrial) went all frenchcore (cheese), I stopped buying the vinyl. I made a statement with what can hurt an industry. Sure, I am only one person, but if you all made a statement, then things would change.

You produce records that won't offend people. You are scared of making a track that sounds too 'hardcore' for your commercial market, so you produce the same crap that has little invention. It's an embarrassment to the word 'Techno'.

La Peste goes to factories and records the industrial sounds he hears and also records sounds from railway lines and many other strange and diverse practices, he then goes home and manipulates the sounds and is always experimenting. How many techno producers actually get off their arse and do likewise?

I'm sick of listening to people in the street who tell me they like techno and then when I enquire further, I find out they mean some stale music at 125-140bpm with a carbon copy beat and the odd inoffensive loop every now and then.

If you want to try something that is still developing and will blow your mind, then have a click on the links below... The experimental peak of 'techno' and still pushing the boundaries

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MMMhoMFs7I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAjZhI9Iow0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4GFkpKbvZU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LJZdjUDd8g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKOGnXf1A6Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyNQiuBKBYQ

[paulcortex]

WTF is all that about???

this stuff is not my cup of tea and would empty most dancefloors i play to,
its just not dancefloor/party/punter friendly,
we are talking about re including the punters not frightening them

to quote henry-

"we need TUNES , real jump up raving out of you head anthems , not more heads down , tribal washing machine grooves or cut up hip hop unintelligable vocal mish mashes.

a spot of melody , an acid line , but a concept , and a strong original one ,
thats what rocks the dancefloor evrywhere!
booom!"

littlefella is right....we want the energy back! long live acid techno!

[phantomdj]

Frightening them? What I am then? oblivious to this sound? Or am I open-minded enough to hear the beauty in this particular invention? Dance floor friendly? That sounds like some gatecrasher comment. What the hell is that anyway? If you are in an 80s bar then blondie is dance floor friendly. If you are at vibealite, then scott brown is dancefloor friendly. If you are at a dNb night then Hype is dance floor friendly. If you are at some crap bar in town, then commercial clubland music is dance floor friendly.

The term itself is nonsensical. I can quite easily dance to 'flashcore' or any form of hardcore above 160bpm.... but give me something slower and i can't move to it. it's too slow. You have to dance like a bird with all your effeminate moves and you look like a tit. How can anyone move their body so slowly and feel comfortable? You just end up looking like a lady boy such as Justin timberlake.

What are you trying to achieve? more listeners? If that's what you want then start playing gatecrasher.

If it's the music you wish to advance rather than the number of participants then it's going to take something radical.

Those who push the boundaries and carry on inventing new sounds always leave genres and produce something on their own...then the previous genre becomes stale, just like your staple 'techno' scene now.

venetian snares
la peste
ed flis

All moving in their own direction producing something you don't affiliate with many others...

Or you can go the other way and producers start to produce music for the masses and the genre they were once pioneers in, also falls apart...

eg sell outs ... then all the wannabes who are part of the 'hero-worship' of these former pioneers remain and copy this music - thus, the previous genre (in all its glory) has taken on a ghost image of dilute techno with added sweeteners.

Shout going out to the aspartame crew.. haha

[paulcortex]

This music is more like painting with sounds....pictures with sounds...this thread was started by Henry with the aim of discussing how we can restore techno (and acid techno) to the credible entity that it should be, im not saying that this music does not have its place, just not on the dance floors we are refering to...THIS IS THE ACID TECHNO SECTION!

[APC]

Frightening them? What I am then? oblivious to this sound? Or am I open-minded enough to hear the beauty in this particular invention? Dance floor friendly? That sounds like some gatecrasher comment. What the hell is that anyway? If you are in an 80s bar then blondie is dance floor friendly. If you are at vibealite, then scott brown is dancefloor friendly. If you are at a dNb night then Hype is dance floor friendly. If you are at some crap bar in town, then commercial clubland music is dance floor friendly.

The term itself is nonsensical. I can quite easily dance to 'flashcore' or any form of hardcore above 160bpm.... but give me something slower and i can't move to it. it's too slow. You have to dance like a bird with all your effeminate moves and you look like a tit. How can anyone move their body so slowly and feel comfortable? You just end up looking like a lady boy such as Justin timberlake.

What are you trying to achieve? more listeners? If that's what you want then start playing gatecrasher.

If it's the music you wish to advance rather than the number of participants then it's going to take something radical.

Those who push the boundaries and carry on inventing new sounds always leave genres and produce something on their own...then the previous genre becomes stale, just like your staple 'techno' scene now.

venetian snares
la peste
ed flis

All moving in their own direction producing something you don't affiliate with many others...

Or you can go the other way and producers start to produce music for the masses and the genre they were once pioneers in, also falls apart...

eg sell outs ... then all the wannabes who are part of the 'hero-worship' of these former pioneers remain and copy this music - thus, the previous genre (in all its glory) has taken on a ghost image of dilute techno with added sweeteners.

Shout going out to the aspartame crew.. haha

If I want to hear a bag of spanners falling into a spinning propellor, I'll do a wingwalk on the Crunchie bi-plane and lob a toolkit and listen REALLY hard to the next 2 minutes as the engine disintergrates around me sending metallic thrashing sounds crossed with the wind, a grating of metal and ultimately a crash as the plane impacts into the ground.

I don't want to hear that though. It's just not my cup of tea.

My cup of tea is made of throbbing basslines, screeching 303's and a vocal telling me that "it's the plumber".

Horses for courses though innit.

[phantomdj]

''My cup of tea is made of throbbing basslines, screeching 303's and a vocal telling me that "it's the plumber".''

Then start listening to the DJ Producer or Promo. :-)

[lunatrick]

will the plumber please put the wheels back on the washing machine so it can spin it's way out of the musical ghetto wherein it finds itself!!

[Si the Sigh]

i guess techno (especially acid techno)has painted itself into a corner...and unless some serious rethinking is done then our favourite genre may just have its days numbered.

Thats what I've been saying for ages man.

Take the sound back to its roots before it's too late.

[113]

In my opinion (and some of my friends), many DJs in the electronic scene are a bit too much in love with the form and are forgetting about the content, THE SUBSTANCE, the vibe, the spirit, the passion. We should use music to transport emotions. A good party night can be a cathartic journey through all emotional states and should be a healing experience. Thats what we working for.
Its all about expressing and evoking personal freedom, CELEBRATING LIFE!

[Si the Sigh]

It's all "wow! check out the production" and not enough good track ideas...

[nihilist]

here what your saying si, but for every person that wants old style acid there are more saying that sounds old style we want new sounds!

[the_psychologist]

I think that music needs to be seen as "cool" to attract more people to the fray, both listeners and producers. How many times do you hear ANY acid classics played out? I mean anything from the early/mid 90s American, German, UK scenes? I have gone back to being in love with this music, but I also have the luxury of owning a huge amount of it. Most people just don't know what they missed, and they have no way of hearing it. If no one is playing it, few people know about it. The classic sound needs to be hammered back into the collective consciousness to hopefully sow the seeds again for more music that draws on it for inspiration.

Personally, I have never seen Techno as having the same lifespan as music with a Trance structure. In all my years of loving dance music, I have never just whacked an 8 minute loopy Techno track on as listening music. That sort of music is about being in the mix, which will always limit it. We needs tracks that have a story and all that cliched bullshit.

I'll probably get slagged for this, but the only new music I find exciting is the stuff on labels like Cocoon, Border Community, Traum, etc.. BC especially has blown me away with many tracks from young producers who seem to have decided to ignore genre traps and just mash all influences together in a very intelligent way. Check out James Holden, Minilogue, Petter, Extrawelt, etc.. Maybe not music to gurn to, but it at least shows that it's still quite possible to be original and meaningful. And funny how recognition just followed for them as a result of doing music with integrity.

Rambleramble

[the_psychologist]

Oh, and the apathy thing is real across ALL areas of life right now. Here in the USA, people have apparently decided that their TVs are large enough that they don't need to pay attention to our horribly corrupt government. We're just happy to see the latest Let's Make Some Twat A Celebrity - SEE? It Could Happen To You!! drivel. If there's no rebellious spirit left, then art suffers as a result. People are docile cows now, so their modes of expression have no real passion and creativity. Their output is the equivalent of a cow's moo.

[the_psychologist]

**** me, just lost a long post

Basically, modern people = docile = weak art

Our TVs have become distracting ennough that we have no passion for rebellion and the art that it creates.

[Athar]

Most people just don't know what they missed, and they have no way of hearing it. If no one is playing it, few people know about it. The classic sound needs to be hammered back into the collective consciousness to hopefully sow the seeds again for more music that draws on it for inspiration.

Exacly, every year we have less and less people who remember old school records. They just leave from music indriusty or they stop producing music.
I not mean only they can get us for new inspiration or make techno music better now, but i think they can make a track by tools with cant used 15 years ago because this tools didnt exist yet.
Why just not use the simple old idea and make a tune by using modern tools for making the music ?
How many of us remember old acid records from 1990 to 1994 ?
I quess not too many but i believe here on boa its the bigest collective producers who still remember this great golden era.
My suggest could be > go back to harthouse label and listen all this old records again, they have everything what we need to get new, great acid tune.

[Si the Sigh]

here what your saying si, but for every person that wants old style acid there are more saying that sounds old style we want new sounds!

So do I mate, but with some old skool love and thought.

Look at the tripe that's coming out on SUF soon, that new one by Chris & Guy.

Now look back deep within your record collection and pull out tracks by these two.

How the fu*k did they go from absolute monster track to this trash?

Fair play, the productions great, but the track sucks.

[the_psychologist]

And as retro as I might sound, I'm not calling people to just remake classic tracks. I just think there was an energy and attention to detail in those old Acid Techno/Trance tunes that is often missing these days, and people who are never exposed to them cannot draw on them for inspiration.

There's a reason i can still whack them on 10 to 15 years later and just listen, you know?

Maybe producers think they will win the battle by putting out more tracks, faster, but it just dilutes everything that makes underground dance music good.

Sorry for flogging this old horse again...

[Si the Sigh]

And as retro as I might sound, I'm not calling people to just remake classic tracks. I just think there was an energy and attention to detail in those old Acid Techno/Trance tunes that is often missing these days, and people who are never exposed to them cannot draw on them for inspiration.

There's a reason i can still whack them on 10 to 15 years later and just listen, you know?

Maybe producers think they will win the battle by putting out more tracks, faster, but it just dilutes everything that makes underground dance music good.

Sorry for flogging this old horse again...

My thoughts exactly.

Too many "throw away tracks" are being hammered out. Where's the quality control gone?

[paulcortex]

well its up to the punters and djs to stop buying this shite and then perhaps the labels might take notice...just because its stay up forever does not mean its going to be a quality release...
Dont get me wrong in the "good ol'days" i would have just seen the stay up forever label and bought it just on that alone, you could be sure it would be a barn storming acid monster, but since the "change" the label seems to have started lowering its sights and releasing anything that guy,chris et all can produce...wheres the rip roaring 303 riffs and the trancy/trippy elements???
if they do indeed want to "stay up forever" they should start broadening the artists they use (like us for instance!! lol) or perhaps they might just become stay at the dole office forever...and we dont want that!!!!

[dirty_bass]

The music should be full of emotion, whatever emotion that may be, it should be something more than the producers need to make a tune and get a release out.
If there is feeling in the music, then people will respond to it.
Endless cold loops made for DJ`s that say nothing to nobody except the man in the booth do nothing to evoke a sense of wonder/exitement/or euphoria in the listener.

[paulcortex]

Endless cold loops made for DJ`s that say nothing to nobody except the man in the booth do nothing to evoke a sense of wonder/exitement/or euphoria in the listener.


... i guess technology has made it all too easy to allow anyone produce loops.

...thats why the old analogue kit was so good...you had to work like **** to get a good sound and you needed a degree in advanced mathematics to get the old sequencers to work.(especially the tb 303 sequencer!!!)...also the cost of synths and computers was incredible then...so most people couldnt afford to make music and those that did...did it with passion....thats where todays cheap laptops and software packages have stepped in...and the result...anyone can make loops and anyone seems to be releasing this crap...technology is killing techno i guess!

im so glad i kept my hardware kit...even though i do love a bit of audiorealism bassline here and there ;)

[the_psychologist]

Hehe... ABL2 really wails when you set it up right.

And yeah, maybe the emotion is what's missing. I really love that cerebral, sometimes angry, sometimes melancholic music that we used to get so much in older Acid. I'm not really into pisstakes in most cases. I think all artists should try to elevate standards wherever possible.

So I think I'm going to stat slapping together some classic label mixes. I just did one of Acid Phase stuff on Radar. Will post it up soon.

[theledge]

erm not sure what brought all this on, i was only throwing a couple of ideas around.


You are completely missing the point.

At NO stage does having accessible technology make the quality of the music go down. Where does it say that people enjoy making crap quality music, and what on earth makes people think that everything will get WORSE?


Well, it's reasonable to suggest it's going to have an effect, isn't it? As it happens you've got the wrong end of the stick here - I'm a firm believer in internet distribution and computer based production - and I think it is the future of techno not to mention music in general. I think in time it will make it BETTER, not worse - it might just take a bit of a transitional phase which is what I think we are starting to go through now. Surely talking about this and understanding it will help us all, yourself included, to make the most of it quickly

Perhaps I could have made that a bit clearer mind. ;)



Where does it say that people enjoy making crap quality music,


Well people don't enjoy making crap music but since when did an artist's judgement about his own work have anything to do with how good it really is? At least with the distributor/label model, for all it's faults, there was an element of outside quality control




Its too easy to make music? No it isnt, the fundamentals of music didnt change overnight you know.


Clearly not, I didn't suggest otherwise



In one respect there are many many many SHITE music writers out there, but the digital revolution gives people HOPE, it opens doors that were closed. And its ALWAYS the young who create and shape trends, rather than the OG's attempting to hang onto markets they created that no longer work.


now you're talking. the music industry, of which techno is sadly a part, is a corrupt, outdated schema which has no place in today's society let alone that of the future.

i'm well up for anything which shakes up the comfortable status quo. as ive already tried to suggest in this thread i'm pretty positive about the future of techno and digital distribution and production is one of the reasons why

[dirty_bass]

... i guess technology has made it all too easy to allow anyone produce loops.

...thats why the old analogue kit was so good...you had to work like **** to get a good sound and you needed a degree in advanced mathematics to get the old sequencers to work.(especially the tb 303 sequencer!!!)...also the cost of synths and computers was incredible then...so most people couldnt afford to make music and those that did...did it with passion....thats where todays cheap laptops and software packages have stepped in...and the result...anyone can make loops and anyone seems to be releasing this crap...technology is killing techno i guess!

im so glad i kept my hardware kit...even though i do love a bit of audiorealism bassline here and there ;)

You can`t blame bad music on the tools.
That`s almost as bad as the fans who abandoned bob dillon because he went electric.
It`s the bad musicians who are to blame, and they would be making crap wether it was an akai, a 909, 2 juno`s and a 101, or a laptop.
There has always been bad music.
The problem is bigger than something that simple.

During the analog days there was plenty of terrible music made by rich kids with all the kit.
The only problem is the buyers lack of standards, in allowing bad music to perpetuate.

[Little_Fella!]

Oh, and the apathy thing is real across ALL areas of life right now. Here in the USA, people have apparently decided that their TVs are large enough that they don't need to pay attention to our horribly corrupt government. We're just happy to see the latest Let's Make Some Twat A Celebrity - SEE? It Could Happen To You!! drivel. If there's no rebellious spirit left, then art suffers as a result. People are docile cows now, so their modes of expression have no real passion and creativity. Their output is the equivalent of a cow's moo.


I've booted my Idiot Lantern out of my room... shitey thing :censored:

I pop next door to Davidoff's to watch 'Never Mind the Buzzcocks' mind... :briggin:

[Little_Fella!]

Too many "throw away tracks" are being hammered out. Where's the quality control gone?

Quality control is all down to who's in charge of the Quality Control...

So... Who is in charge of the Quality Control :ruquestion: :ruquestion:

[Adey]

where's all the GOOD tunes gone?
at the moment i've got a bag full of mediocre stuff , stuff thats good to mix , tracks that have nice grooves etc
but nothing at all close to the music we had 4/5 years ago
and i don't really mean acid at all
i mean techno , all kinds , marco bailey , luke slater , maro picotto , big tracks
anthemic maybe , cheesy yes sure , but they were gems and when you played them the room went off.

i mean some of the techno i hear now is ok maybe for the uk , but elsewhere it just sucks , it's to tribal , too washing machiney with no substantial idea to lift it up and to make people think wow what was that?

to be honest there's way more in the way of real new ideas in the minimal and electro music i'm hearing now than in the kind of techno i have been playing.

and i'm thinking.....this can't be it.....can it!

we need TUNES , real jump up raving out of you head anthems , not more heads down , tribal washing machine grooves or cut up hip hop unintelligable vocal mish mashes.

a spot of melody , an acid line , but a concept , and a strong original one ,
thats what rocks the dancefloor evrywhere!

i reckon it's time to sit down and think , where is this trac going to go???.....before you even switch the studio on.

we ....i ...need it please talented people let's do this thing right !

now load that second barrel and aim at my head


booom!

FINALLY! I think I'll save this post.

Welcome to the future Henry...

[DannyBlack]

im actually nervous about releasing stuff, because there are so many bloody critics out there.... no, critic isnt the right word.. techno snobs. so in a sense Mr. Drummer has a point, techno at the moment is throwing out some right turds, because people (not everyone, cos there are some real gems) are playing it really safe.

[dirrrti]

Hi

It's the first time I write here, excuse me if my english is not very well, I'm from Barcelona and I didn't learn very much about this language at any school.

Mr. Cullen:

I like to see you opening that kind of thread, but at the same time I think you are a little bit involved too in this techno decadence. I tell it to you cause I admire your work, for me you' re THE TECHNO PRODUCER, as it sounds, and I think you still doing great tracks but I also think that in general there are not so good as it was some years ago....

In fact, I never was specially interested in techno music until I started to listen, about 3 years ago, the music that you and your pals do (specially from late 90's to nowadays), to the point that some months ago I' ll started to buy acidous and not so acidous but hard and crazy techno vinyls for mixing.

For example, I think the "atomicalienwhathe****itsays" track in Hydro 36 is great but, for me, is the only one really intersting track that you' ve realesed in this label since number 28, whose both sides are amazing. From your recent tunes I think Arpeggiator, Jack Me and the 4th Dimension remix are good so, and, overall, Hotwire (masterpiece)..... The question is what happened with the rage and energy that was in tunes from the last 90's / first 00's like Hydraulix 9 b side (the guilty of my addiction), SUF 41, 51 & 69 (both sides of them), COSHH 3 (both sides too), Mosquito' s Tweeter, Stretford Wives, BOA 10, the Acid Disco and Break The System remixes or Cradle Cap???? All of them different, all of them incredible and unique music pieces....I' ve said you still doing good tunes but they aren't so original, audacious and variated as before... Why??

[xes]

He there dirrrti,welcome to blackout :) Don't worry about your english not being perfect,it's probably better than some of the English born and bread posters :laughing:

[pat_mcgerkin]

He there dirrrti,welcome to blackout :) Don't worry about your english not being perfect,it's probably better than some of the English born and BREAD posters :laughing:

Case in point :P

Or is that why refer to it as having a bun in the oven?

Oh, and welcome dirrrti.

[djfilthmonger]

I agree with the fact there was great choons around the time of 2001,2002,2003... listen to adam beyer sets and umek live @i love techno, great songs in these mixs,
but i still think there lots of good choons coming out maybe not the same as they were, but greatly produced, maybe not as catchy but come on,
i have listened to loves of gems comin out recently all across the board , im very picky when buying records, ill only get and play what i really like, and my record collection has grow with favs over the last 2 years, im more intreasted in the new stuff than tryin to build a collection of classics,

[squidfanny]

fair play for saying it, I couldn't agree more. The simple fact is that there is NO LSD in the music. . I guess all the producers are doing coke and ket and making soulless and crap sounding techno and earbleeding shranzz. GOOD LSD = GOOD ACID TECHNO, and it's as simple as that. I remember a few years ago when all my buddies started hitting ket, "this is death to the scene" I thought, and it looks like I was right.. There's no love at the free parties any more, and all the people are well sketchey, with big ego's and bad attitudes. I know that's a big generalisation, but it's true.. Looks like ketamine (or powdered death as I call it) has served it's purpus and killed the party scene. Bring back good LSD and the good music will come back.

[squidfanny]

also, apex records is THE best label at the mo.. keeping it alive man

good show there.......

[dirrrti]

I' m agree with you in almost of what you say, squidfanny. But for me, paradoxically, the best label right now is Getafix, whose vinyls always have references to K, a drug that I hate but seems to inspire great sounds to the people behind this label.

[113]

it's sad what you said squidfanny ... but unfortunatelly true

[fatcollective]

get ya facts straight .....LSD music is psy trance!!!

[dirrrti]

If LSD music is psy trance, why ACID techno is called like this???

I have to say also that there's been a lot of people in LSD and MUSIC many time before the invention of psy trance. Have you ever listened about Jimi Hendrix, The Beatles, The Doors, Pink Floyd and so many other people??

LSD it' s a so crazy and complex thing that it's impossible to limitate it to one style of music or anything else.

[ollie303]

get ya facts straight .....LSD music is psy trance!!!

cant handle acid spins me the **** out...
mayb we could all seek inspiration by wearing odd fluorescent clothing in the studio!


:D

[xes]

get ya facts straight .....LSD music is psy trance!!!

no way dude!!

Acid techno is called acid techno for a reason. I once gave a mate his first trip,he asked why acid techno was called acid techno. So I put some on. He didn't need to ask again. :cool:

[tOM B]

cant handle acid spins me the **** out...
mayb we could all seek inspiration by wearing odd fluorescent clothing in the studio!


:D

as long as fluro wigs are involved

[TechnoWhore]

I think sadly, there is a tendency to move where the bright light is (moths to lights, pigs to shit, moneymakers to money etc).

right now there is just no demand for acid - as with everything else that is going on, there is a tendency to cut up some well known vocal from a pop record or nick a piano riff outta prodigy and clamp it on to some tired schranz loop!!!

I have heard some really nice reworks of old tunes / samples...but sadly UK distribution will never get teh handle on Europe that Europe has on the UK well enough to release prolifically in Europe for UK artists to gain attention...

right now we are suffering in the UK!!! Friends of mine who own techno lables lament and weep when they get told by their distributors to consider releasing vocal house reworks on the flip side...

One problem is the lack of decent squat/benefit/pay parties supporting home grown talent in our scene. I suppose this bears some relevance to some other posters here re the use of drugs - right now, coke is the main currency...and yes, some wannabe posers prefer to get "Changed up" and get dressed and scope each other in "secret parties in a warehouse in Hoxton" (hmmm) ...but how then do you explain the fact that places like Poland ahe having it and it is proper industrial billy all round there?

It's all about our collective tired and defeatist attitude! We need to support each other and perhaps label owners should make more of an effort to invite other artists to remix / contribute etc till we create another critical Mass!!!

[acidchild]

I agree with the posts about there being an energy in the early 90s Acid that is totally lost in the productions of today. Why? I think it's because of the fact that back then, everything was new. The sky was the limit with what people could come up with, because it was all so new. So people would just do whatever they felt like, and we would buy it because there was nothing like it at the time. Now, 15+ years on, i think we've hit on everything we possibly can. It's all been done. So now we find that people find their little niche of styles they like, and go with that. There's nothing wrong with that, but at some point, it starts to get boring. It's like everyone works off the same template, and they just switch it up a little bit from person to person. And this is why i rarely buy new records. I find myself searching out the old classics. Woody's Aciiieeed label was a good idea. Binary Bassline is a killer label, Acid Revolt Unit is a good one. Also, i'm not a fan of digital DJing. And with less and less labels pressing up actual vinyl, and everyone jumping on digital download bandwagon, i'm finding less and less records worth buying. As far as MY OWN productions go, Henry was talking about coming up with a concept prior to even turning your gear on. I actually do the opposite. I just switch it all on, and start jamming. Eventually i come up with something i like, work from there. I'm not a classically trained musician. I don't know shit all about keys, or any of that. I do it all by ear. I'm quite simply about rocking out. Plain and simple. I can't read a lick of music. And i don't care. I'm not writing classical music here, it's electronic. I'll leave the proper writing to those who know how to do it. Me, i'll stick to spur of the moment sequencing =o]

[Si the Sigh]

In my opinion, quite simply, the music isn't as good as it used to be.

[acidchild]

In my opinion, quite simply, the music isn't as good as it used to be.


That's the short of it =o]