View Full Version : i'm about half way thought a ritchie hawtin set
MangaFish
22-04-2004, 12:43 AM
and i have to say, its got to be one of the most baoringest sets i've heard in my life
it just goes no where. the mixing is baoring. the tunes are ok but sound really bland they way how his played them
not impressed by it at all
did really want to see the guy live but if this is his typical set, then i'm not sure i would enjoy it
MangaFish
22-04-2004, 12:50 AM
the 2nd half is somewhat better. theres actually some kinda of groove going on now :lol:
but with only 17mins left in the mix :doh:
surely he cant play THIS down tempo in clubs?
dan the acid man
22-04-2004, 02:34 AM
i like listening to his mixes but im not sure i would be wanting to hear it in a club though.
The man has done a huge ammount for techno though, i got into it by listening to plastikman tracks and f.u.s.e : substance abuse of course, artefakts b.c is still one of my all time favourite albums
Is that closer to the redit mix your on about?? I actually really like it, it's not too hard, very minimal but excellent imo. As mentioned, plastikman fuse etc the man's a top producer/dj. Each to their own though.
Is that closer to the redit mix your on about
thats one of my fav techno mix cds ever! dont no if i would want to listen 2 it in a clubs its really minamal and slow but its an absoulty beautfull mix
gumpy green
22-04-2004, 12:46 PM
and i have to say, its got to be one of the most baoringest sets i've heard in my life
it just goes no where. the mixing is baoring. the tunes are ok but sound really bland they way how his played them
not impressed by it at all
did really want to see the guy live but if this is his typical set, then i'm not sure i would enjoy it
every mix ive heard by hawtin is sloppy as fuk mixing...defo cant undertsand why hes rated so highly as a dj......even i can do alot better.
heard a few that have good decent techno but the lack of djind skills puts me off.
if the mix you listened to is boring you try - hawtin live in barcelona...bit better....thers also a not bad 2hr long mix Richie Hawtin & John Acquiviva ...think its barcelona aswell.....live mix.
Production wise i like some of his stuff but others bore me.....well made tho but dont do nuthing for me....each to ther own tho.
Is that closer to the redit mix your on about
thats one of my fav techno mix cds ever! dont no if i would want to listen 2 it in a clubs its really minamal and slow but its an absoulty beautfull mix
tis quality indeed. Subtle techno. Also i have not heard Richie mix badly as some folk seem to have on this thread. Boring? that's a matter of opinion but all mixes I have heard by him are faultless eg Mixmag, Dex efx 909 etc. And hearing him play out and live on radio he was tight as.
Perhaps I have just missed some of his bad moments??? but i feel he's getting a raw deal here by saying he can't mix. Not having a dig at anyone just seems strange to me that he is seen as a technically bad dj.
maily
22-04-2004, 01:31 PM
tis quality indeed. Subtle techno. Also i have not heard Richie mix badly as some folk seem to have on this thread. Boring? that's a matter of opinion but all mixes I have heard by him are faultless eg Mixmag, Dex efx 909 etc. And hearing him play out and live on radio he was tight as.
Perhaps I have just missed some of his bad moments??? but i feel he's getting a raw deal here by saying he can't mix. Not having a dig at anyone just seems strange to me that he is seen as a technically bad dj.
i agree DE9 & Dex efx 909 are both wicked mix cd's, DE9 sounds like dub to me,
and when i saw him on the de9 tour at the orbit he absolutely rocked!
it was tight, hard, well off the wall, but danceable, if it had been boring the crowd at orbit would have let him know about it!
gumpy green
22-04-2004, 01:55 PM
tis quality indeed. Subtle techno. Also i have not heard Richie mix badly as some folk seem to have on this thread. Boring? that's a matter of opinion but all mixes I have heard by him are faultless eg Mixmag, Dex efx 909 etc. And hearing him play out and live on radio he was tight as.
Perhaps I have just missed some of his bad moments??? but i feel he's getting a raw deal here by saying he can't mix. Not having a dig at anyone just seems strange to me that he is seen as a technically bad dj.
i agree DE9 & Dex efx 909 are both wicked mix cd's, DE9 sounds like dub to me,
and when i saw him on the de9 tour at the orbit he absolutely rocked!
it was tight, hard, well off the wall, but danceable, if it had been boring the crowd at orbit would have let him know about it!
deks fx and 909 ----do you think that was was done live(and i dont mean live in a club)....i think not...studio mix using shit like 4 tracks etc..
Its pretty good for what it is but its not a good show of djing skills.
All the hawtin live mixes i've heard and when i've seen him his mixing has always been silky smooth, never heard one record go out of time. Not saying that neccessarily makes him a fantastic dj but i don't think you can call his mixing sloppy.
I think what type of set he plays depends on what type of night he's booked at eg. he is more likely to play a more up-tempo set at something like I Love Techno etc.
stefano1981
22-04-2004, 02:41 PM
Just because it's not 145bpm over-compressed banging techno does not mean it's boring. ;)
gumpy green
22-04-2004, 03:12 PM
All the hawtin live mixes i've heard and when i've seen him his mixing has always been silky smooth, never heard one record go out of time. Not saying that neccessarily makes him a fantastic dj but i don't think you can call his mixing sloppy.
I think what type of set he plays depends on what type of night he's booked at eg. he is more likely to play a more up-tempo set at something like I Love Techno etc.
which ones....ive got some that are shocking......one or two alright ones aswell tho.
Patrick DSP
22-04-2004, 03:42 PM
Just because it's not 145bpm over-compressed banging techno does not mean it's boring. ;)
Because it's a flat line with no sense of programming or intent to do anything interesting. ;) My how the once powerful have fallen so hard, yet everyone says the emperor is still wearing clothes. I'll hand Ritchie, the tosser, a bathrobe in the meantime.
stefano1981
22-04-2004, 03:43 PM
He's no Magda. Lol.
jonnyspeed
22-04-2004, 03:59 PM
and i have to say, its got to be one of the most baoringest sets i've heard in my life
it just goes no where. the mixing is baoring. the tunes are ok but sound really bland they way how his played them
not impressed by it at all
did really want to see the guy live but if this is his typical set, then i'm not sure i would enjoy it
Yer either like minimal techno or you divn't. He's alot more concept than he used to be in the days of Fuse and Sheet One. The best mix I have is MixMag's release from mid-1990s.
If you ever have the chance to see him - go! he is one of the most talented and original producers in the world - you've just got to be open to what he's doing.
jonnyspeed
22-04-2004, 04:00 PM
Just because it's not 145bpm over-compressed banging techno does not mean it's boring. ;)
Because it's a flat line with no sense of programming or intent to do anything interesting. ;) My how the once powerful have fallen so hard, yet everyone says the emperor is still wearing clothes. I'll hand Ritchie, the tosser, a bathrobe in the meantime.
Shame on you. You obviously don't know very much about music - that's all I can say to you Mr DSP
Francisco Scaramanga
22-04-2004, 04:10 PM
I also find it hard to beleive that people could say he's a sloppy DJ. Fair enough if you don't like his style, but I have seen him loads of times, and heard him the radio loads more, and I have never heard a dodgy mix, never heard even one record go out of time. I will say that not every set I have heard from him has been exciting, but if nothing else, he's always been a smooth operator.
As for the business about Dex Efx 909 not being live, well, I reckon it was. I would take ritchies word for it as I have a lot of respect for him, but on top of that, I heard him on the tour he did for it, and while the tracks may have been different, the obscenely fast and smooth way in which he ripped them and the dancefloor to shreds was exactly the same.
The Overfiend
22-04-2004, 04:48 PM
hawtin has paid nuff dues.
period, I dont have an opinion at all because
I have not achieved what he has in his time.
When I have done decks efx and 909 I'll talk shit.
Now I respect what the man has done. Does'nt mean I like it.
maily
22-04-2004, 05:10 PM
As for the business about Dex Efx 909 not being live, well, I reckon it was.
yeah i'm pretty f**in certain that it was a live mix too :eh:
Decks, Efx & 909 was recorded in a one live pass and then edited. The original mix was about twice as long as what you hear on the cd. it obviously contains things that are humanly impossible -- and that's the point. he's never put out a 'standard' mix cd and he never will. Sound Of The Third Season comes close, but it's clear the intent of that cd was to capture the mood, the moment in time.. which i think it did very well. And actually all the djing on Third Season is Sven; rich did all the editing afterward, insertion of the real-life recordings, etc.
DE9:Closer To The Edit was obviously all done in a computer (after recording the loops from vinyl).
The Mixmag cd ('95) was also a custom edit deal... back when no one ever did that for mix cds. he was even experimenting with a series of mixers linked together to dj with back then cuz dj mixers were so lo-fi in terms of effects sends, options, etc..
The sloppy comment is hilarious. Rich is one of the world's best djs, regardless of whether you like what he's playing or not. if the original post in this thread was in reference to his March '04 Maida Vale Peel set, yeah, that, like other Radio 1 things he has done, was much more minimal. it's a damn radio show afterall. but after seeing him dozens of times i'm quite certain he can play mega-banging, minimal bleep bloop, house, and everything in between like very few people can. he is responsible for most of the hardest music nights of my life and also for making my jaw drop at how he can make minimal music really work in a club full of nutters... and then sneak in a vocal house track just to take the piss. and don't get me started on the live pa's.
funny thing about the amount of minimal perlon-y stuff he's playing now: 3 years ago or so when he doing so much DE9 touring you'd hear a lot of people complain about how he was playing too hard.
i grew up seeing the guy, going to all the plus 8 parties. it's cool if you don't like him, taste is taste. but sloppy? um, no.
Frank Dogshit
22-04-2004, 06:14 PM
richie hawtin is a superb dj.
seen him quite a few times and on every occasion its been different. sometimes minimal but on other occasions knocks the arse out of it and gives the crowd what they want,which is the most important thing to me in a dj.
anyone whos seen him at the cocoon partys will know exactly what hes about.
a good set of his to download of his from last year is from albufera,portugal.
Esox Lucius
22-04-2004, 06:17 PM
awesome producer, sets bore me to death though...he has that dex fx & 909 tag but he wasn't the first to do it.
he certainly has skills when it comes to dj'ing, but his sets are so bland & boring.
drift9
22-04-2004, 06:26 PM
been seeing the guy play out for a long long time now. he can play anything from storming, aggressive techno all the way down to stripped, barebones minimal--you never know what you're going to get with the guy and that's what i like about him. i think he's also one of the more creative djs around as well.
and no, i've never really heard him play sloppy. but even so, anyone can have a bad night.
i grew up seeing the guy, going to all the plus 8 parties. it's cool if you don't like him, taste is taste. but sloppy? um, no.
and, G, man, gotta say, you really brought back some fond memories by bringing up those Plus 8 parties.
and, G, man, gotta say, you really brought back some fond memories by bringing up those Plus 8 parties.
yeah tell me about it... i could wax poetic for hours. :)
MangaFish
22-04-2004, 06:52 PM
Just because it's not 145bpm over-compressed banging techno does not mean it's boring. ;)
i prefer my techno slower and more subtile. but this particular mix sounded soo sparse of any activity, i dont think subtile is a sutible word.
the tracks were never out of time. in that respect his mixing was spot on. but the why how he braught the tracks in seemed a little dull. his use of fx was very dull as well.
to me it sounded like the techno equivalent of deep house. (which i dont mind in small quanities but it needs to be beefed up a little to make it danceable)
MangaFish
22-04-2004, 06:57 PM
if the original post in this thread was in reference to his March '04 Maida Vale Peel set, yeah, that, like other Radio 1 things he has done, was much more minimal.
it was the radio 1 set so that might explain it.
basslinejunkie
22-04-2004, 08:07 PM
Just because it's not 145bpm over-compressed banging techno does not mean it's boring. ;)
spot on.
John Vella
23-04-2004, 05:59 AM
Just because it's not 145bpm over-compressed banging techno does not mean it's boring. ;)
Because it's a flat line with no sense of programming or intent to do anything interesting. ;) My how the once powerful have fallen so hard, yet everyone says the emperor is still wearing clothes. I'll hand Ritchie, the tosser, a bathrobe in the meantime.
Shame on you. You obviously don't know very much about music - that's all I can say to you Mr DSP
Why?? Because his opinion differs from yours? :dontevengothere:
Well hey DSP look on the bright side!!! At least you have someone to turn to when you want validation for your thoughts!!! :roll:
:lol:
-j
teknorich
23-04-2004, 10:03 AM
I think Hawtin's superb. Never seen him live, but I've got lots of his mixes, and I've never heard any bad mixing from the man, unlike certain other top jocks (Mills?). I only go for his minimal sets, but in hunting these down I've found sets from him that were funky, bouncy techno, then others that are much harder - the guy can play all styles.
DE9 is my favourite mix of all time. Obviously I wouldn't want to hear that in a club, but for after hours chill out with friends it is perfect. Relaxed and gentle, but without losing the beat. Sweet.
Of course some people find him boring, because he plays slow, dubby stuff, and some people refuse to listen to anything that isn't mind-bendingly tough. For me, when I go out I like it hard and nasty, and I want to stomp at high speeds, but when I'm at home, chilling out, I want something a bit slower, and better produced. Everything in it's place!
gumpy green
23-04-2004, 11:52 AM
Well either youz have been lucky to only find good mixes from him but ive heard TOO MANY sloppy live dj sets from him to rate him highly..
Even when tight its not the greatest example of djing.
The boys a very gifted producer but djing....na, educate yourselve in djing...not just techno djing...but the art djing
The sloppy comment is hilarious. Rich is one of the world's best djs
no offence but he is no where near the level of the worlds best djs, dont even try and put him anywher near craze, qbert, MMM, atrack....hed look weak as fuk playing next to them....
To- All you saying hes one of the best dj-----give me a REALLY good example of a live dj set....as in live in a club and ill check it .......oh and eat my words if prooved wrong...
I could dig out a set or two from him and post examples of the slop but i aint that sad...just like to moan sumtimes... ;)
stefano1981
23-04-2004, 11:58 AM
His essential mix from Sankey's Soap in April 2001 was very good, as far as I can remember. Been a while since I listened to it though.
jonnyspeed
23-04-2004, 12:38 PM
Just because it's not 145bpm over-compressed banging techno does not mean it's boring. ;)
Because it's a flat line with no sense of programming or intent to do anything interesting. ;) My how the once powerful have fallen so hard, yet everyone says the emperor is still wearing clothes. I'll hand Ritchie, the tosser, a bathrobe in the meantime.
Shame on you. You obviously don't know very much about music - that's all I can say to you Mr DSP
No because Richie Hawtin is technically amazing in his composition and execution. What he's doing may not be 4 to the floor and to say that he's got no sence of programming is so laughable that it just makes Patrick look silly - esepcially to somebody like me who understands what he is doing in the context of Dada, Stockhausen, Can etc. and can see why his work streaches people in ways that disposable loop based hard tech will never.
Why?? Because his opinion differs from yours? :dontevengothere:
Well hey DSP look on the bright side!!! At least you have someone to turn to when you want validation for your thoughts!!! :roll:
:lol:
-j
jonnyspeed
23-04-2004, 12:40 PM
ooops... got my comment in the wrong place of the quote then. But my answer is still no ;)
teknorich
23-04-2004, 02:00 PM
On the Decks EFX and 909 CD, the booklet has a graph inside showing which tunes are playing at which point in the mix (bit geeky perhaps, but hey!) On the graph there are very often two, or even three tunes playing simultaneously. This was publicised as a live mix. If Hawtin can play three tracks at the same time, whilst using the FX machine and the 909, then I don't really see how you can claim he can't mix. For me, his mixing ability is much more obvious in his minimal/dubby sets, so maybe you should listen to one of those?? The bouncier, clubbier sets are still good, but not as skilled in my opinion, so don't reflect him as a DJ. You might think he is too linear and straightforward in his mixing, but he is undeniably skilled and capable, perhaps just that his mixing style doesn't suit you?
teknorich
23-04-2004, 02:05 PM
I definitely think that some of the big name DJs just live on their reputation, but I don't think Hawtin is one of them. At risk of upsetting people, I'm quite disappointed with Jeff Mills recently. I have the Liquid Room disc and I love it. It's a live set, so there are a few problems, but the vibe is there and it's great. However, I was thoroughly disappointed with Exhibitionist, and the sloppy, rubbish mixing there, and in fact I've only listened to the mix maybe three times since buying it. Seems Mills is indeed living off his reputation. Hawtin has a long reputation, going back almost as far as people like Mills, but I think he is technically far superior, as well as having developed and changed his style over the years, whereas Mills still plays the same records as he did ten years ago!
gumpy green
23-04-2004, 02:40 PM
On the Decks EFX and 909 CD, the booklet has a graph inside showing which tunes are playing at which point in the mix (bit geeky perhaps, but hey!) On the graph there are very often two, or even three tunes playing simultaneously. This was publicised as a live mix. If Hawtin can play three tracks at the same time, whilst using the FX machine and the 909, then I don't really see how you can claim he can't mix. For me, his mixing ability is much more obvious in his minimal/dubby sets, so maybe you should listen to one of those?? The bouncier, clubbier sets are still good, but not as skilled in my opinion, so don't reflect him as a DJ. You might think he is too linear and straightforward in his mixing, but he is undeniably skilled and capable, perhaps just that his mixing style doesn't suit you?
well the only way you will prove it to me is linking me or giving me the name of a LIVE club set where he does it.....
cmon if hes soo good and plays out everywher ther must be at least one mix you lot know off...otherwise why the fuk are you going on about him if you cant even name one "off the wall mixing set"......big name perhaps.
and i agree bout mills too.......no way id pay to see the slop he dishes out....never mind big him up.
production wise hes good aswell...this seems to be the case wi techno....produce some good tunes and get hailed as a superstar dj.....shows you how much uneducated fukwits are in techno nowadays....its about time somebody schooled the lot of them....im sick hearing bad djs living of of name/hype...so sad.
stefano1981
23-04-2004, 02:44 PM
*Ahem*
His essential mix from Sankey's Soap in April 2001 was very good, as far as I can remember. Been a while since I listened to it though.
gumpy green
23-04-2004, 02:45 PM
On the Decks EFX and 909 CD, the booklet has a graph inside showing which tunes are playing at which point in the mix (bit geeky perhaps, but hey!) On the graph there are very often two, or even three tunes playing simultaneously. This was publicised as a live mix. If Hawtin can play three tracks at the same time, whilst using the FX machine and the 909, then I don't really see how you can claim he can't mix. For me, his mixing ability is much more obvious in his minimal/dubby sets, so maybe you should listen to one of those?? The bouncier, clubbier sets are still good, but not as skilled in my opinion, so don't reflect him as a DJ. You might think he is too linear and straightforward in his mixing, but he is undeniably skilled and capable, perhaps just that his mixing style doesn't suit you?
i dont believ he did it live and if so then he must do it in a club aswell so theyll be plenty of mixes you can link me to....
minimal/dubby sets will do if it reflects his good djing.....
teknorich
23-04-2004, 03:00 PM
I'm not supposed to be using the net in work mate, so I'm just grabbing a quick 5 minutes when I can... I'll see if I can hook something up before I go though, cos I don't have internet access at home right now.
teknorich
23-04-2004, 03:03 PM
One thing I will (quickly) say though is that it often works the other way around as well. There are a few Djs who I respect for their mixing, but I'm not keen on their productions. Personally I like Dave Clarke's sets, but I'd never buy his album. Same goes for dave Tarrida. Who do the Hardsignal people rate both for Dj sets and track production??
well the only way you will prove it to me is linking me or giving me the name of a LIVE club set where he does it.....
cmon if hes soo good and plays out everywher ther must be at least one mix you lot know off...otherwise why the fuk are you going on about him if you cant even name one "off the wall mixing set"......big name perhaps.
and i agree bout mills too.......no way id pay to see the slop he dishes out....never mind big him up.
production wise hes good aswell...this seems to be the case wi techno....produce some good tunes and get hailed as a superstar dj.....shows you how much uneducated fukwits are in techno nowadays....its about time somebody schooled the lot of them....im sick hearing bad djs living of of name/hype...so sad.
sorry got to wholeheartedly disagree. You're are right some people live off a big name and are gash dj's but I think to dispute Hawtin's technical ability on decks or prodcuing is not fair or accurate?? Maybe try radio 1 archive Hawtin at Medicine bar or something, that's a good live mix??
I agree that many bedroom dj's and unkowns I've heard can put together as good a mix as the 'pros'.....but I think it's harsh to dismiss Hawtin as living off name with all the qaulity he's produced over the years...and I've personally witnessed him live as Plastikman and as a dj real quality both times imo, plus his cds etc.... l as mentioned before liking it is nother issue but to dismiss him as shit and a blagger just aint right :nono:
no disrespect mate, entiltled to your view but I gotta disagree ;)
http://www.m-nus.com/
If you go into the downloads section there is a mix called BBC radio 1 mix which is one of his minimal sets from 2002.
teknorich
23-04-2004, 03:13 PM
Yup, good set. Or try his mix with Magda from PS1. Hard to tell who is playing at any given point maybe, but a very good set overall.
gumpy green
23-04-2004, 03:15 PM
well the only way you will prove it to me is linking me or giving me the name of a LIVE club set where he does it.....
cmon if hes soo good and plays out everywher ther must be at least one mix you lot know off...otherwise why the fuk are you going on about him if you cant even name one "off the wall mixing set"......big name perhaps.
and i agree bout mills too.......no way id pay to see the slop he dishes out....never mind big him up.
production wise hes good aswell...this seems to be the case wi techno....produce some good tunes and get hailed as a superstar dj.....shows you how much uneducated fukwits are in techno nowadays....its about time somebody schooled the lot of them....im sick hearing bad djs living of of name/hype...so sad.
sorry got to wholeheartedly disagree. You're are right some people live off a big name and are gash dj's but I think to dispute Hawtin's technical ability on decks or prodcuing is not fair or accurate?? Maybe try radio 1 archive Hawtin at Medicine bar or something, that's a good live mix??
I agree that many bedroom dj's and unkowns I've heard can put together as good a mix as the 'pros'.....but I think it's harsh to dismiss Hawtin as living off name with all the qaulity he's produced over the years...and I've personally witnessed him live as Plastikman and as a dj real quality both times imo, plus his cds etc.... l as mentioned before liking it is nother issue but to dismiss him as shit and a blagger just aint right :nono:
no disrespect mate, entiltled to your view but I gotta disagree ;)
cheers mate i will check that mix out, if its good ill say so but if its slop then i will also say so.......
ive saw hawtin live aswell and he didnt live up to the hype.....
and im not disliking it it cos of the style of music-alot was really good techno to my taste, im on about sloppy beats getting pushed and pulled too much.....and boring mixes with little inovation/tricks.
i can tell the differnce between a good dj and a bad dj no matter what stlye they play......same wi live pa's.
like for exapmle ----i dont like what the youngsters do, saw them do it live etc....most of it was not to my taste but would never call them sloppy/crap etc.....THEY ARE REALLY REALLY GOOD. In fact brillient.
I never once said hawtin plays crap tunes......i said every live mix ive heard from him was gash with loads of mistakes.......
teknorich
23-04-2004, 03:21 PM
I also liked his set from 10 days off if you can find it anywhere. Sorry I'm not giving you links, but I don't want to get collared for internet use in work...
http://www.m-nus.com/
If you go into the downloads section there is a mix called BBC radio 1 mix which is one of his minimal sets from 2002.
MangaFish
23-04-2004, 07:05 PM
http://www.m-nus.com/
If you go into the downloads section there is a mix called BBC radio 1 mix which is one of his minimal sets from 2002.
thats the one i listened to.
it just felt like it didnt progress at all
The sloppy comment is hilarious. Rich is one of the world's best djs
no offence but he is no where near the level of the worlds best djs, dont even try and put him anywher near craze, qbert, MMM, atrack....hed look weak as fuk playing next to them....
ok, we are talking about VERY different things.
jonnyspeed
23-04-2004, 08:02 PM
No I don't agree you can put scratch DJ against the likes of Richie Hawtin. His ability to piece of music when he mixes is easily comparable to the likes of Q-Bert, DJ Shadow etc. I think we just need say they all rank in the top 10 - and then leave it to personal taste to pick a winner.
in terms of technical ability scratching is in a different league to techno - but its function is different as alot of the thought is put in in the studio not the turntables.
But Richie writes and produces as vast amount of what he plays - which is truely contempory-classical in its roots and quality. Added to this is the fact that he is a cornerstone influence in acid techno.
Top Trumps anyone?
http://www.m-nus.com/
If you go into the downloads section there is a mix called BBC radio 1 mix which is one of his minimal sets from 2002.
thats the one i listened to.
it just felt like it didnt progress at all
ah ok, then that's even a different one than what i referred to earlier in this. there's a peel/radio1 set from 10 March 2004 out there that you should check out.
MangaFish
24-04-2004, 12:10 AM
i was hoping to find something a bit more typical of his club sets. (if thats possible?)
gumpy green
25-04-2004, 05:19 PM
No I don't agree you can put scratch DJ against the likes of Richie Hawtin. His ability to piece of music when he mixes is easily comparable to the likes of Q-Bert, DJ Shadow etc. I think we just need say they all rank in the top 10 - and then leave it to personal taste to pick a winner.
in terms of technical ability scratching is in a different league to techno - but its function is different as alot of the thought is put in in the studio not the turntables.
But Richie writes and produces as vast amount of what he plays - which is truely contempory-classical in its roots and quality. Added to this is the fact that he is a cornerstone influence in acid techno.
Top Trumps anyone?
Djing is djing --no matter what style you play.... it is possible to play techno with the turntablist stlye...skratching and shit..even if i saw a guy playing cheesy trance fused with scooter but was totally amazing at the way he done it hed get my respect for his djing skill even tho hes playing total piss music that i wouldnt listen to.
thats what the art of djing is about(to me). not just playing records but fukin about with them......you can still build a techno set but add your own dj style over it...like using crazy juggles to break it down b4 droppin in a blinder that just blows the roof off....or playing your own basslines using tones over a techno beat...
Im not tring to take anything away from hawtin - he is very very talented and get loads of respect from ME for what hes done... hes just not one of the best djs in the world. and ive heard many a sloppy mix from him..
anyway ive said my piece- you can go back and believe hes great, your choice, ill listen to the finer dj's in this world....and thers more than 10, i only used qbet as an example cos its prob the only one youd know off, thers plenty underground headz that are up ther too.
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