Programming or technical ability ?

Just wondered which skill people rate more highly in a DJ - the ability to program a set well, carefully selecting appropriate tunes and placing them in the set at the right time or a DJ's ability to really mash it up and pull out all the tricks, keeping the beats precise and clinical ?

The reason I ask is I've seen a few (sometimes heated) discussions in various threads along the lines of "DJ insert-name-here is the most technical DJ I've ever witnessed" which somebody else counters with "Yeah, but DJ insert-name-here plays really boring tunes!".

I'll kick it off by saying that for me it's about the programming. The tunes come first every time. I can tolerate a few fluffed mixes or a few lazy beats in a set so long as the tunes are right. I don't care how clinical, technical or highly skilled a DJ is, if the tunes are bland they can be doing handstands on the decks for all I care, it'll still leave me cold.

Obviously it's a given that a good combination of the two is the ideal we'd all work towards, but that's the bitch of this question. No sitting on the fence, choose one or t'other please.

Records, no question. As I mentioned in another thread, the most technically proficient DJ in the world playing pop records would still sound crap, skils or no skills. Music all the way...........

(But if ya got the skills and the beats, then it's all good!!! There are plenty of DJ's that fit into this category.)

the music defo, there are dj`s that aren`t that good technically that i still rate just on what they play.

There are four kinds of dj's:

1. no talent and all hits

2. all talent and no hits

3. some talent and some hits

4. stay at home.... you need practise

(talent = ability to beat-match + effective track selection)

Given the choice, I would give my hard earned money to #2 and #3....

Most dj's who I like have been able to build a set slow and steady dropping the right tracks at the right time effectively buliding the crowd to a frenzy.

my 2 cents

I'll say technique. I've always thought a good dj can make a crap record sound good. Consider the ever so technical hip hop djz. Give em a box of polka b-sides and they'll keep a crowd captivated for hours.

Try saying that to Ryan!!

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Originally Posted by Orange

I'll say technique. I've always thought a good dj can make a crap record sound good. Consider the ever so technical hip hop djz. Give em a box of polka b-sides and they'll keep a crowd captivated for hours.

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A crowd of nerds, maybe. :wink: I don't think Hip-Hop (music) and Techno (music) are really comparable to be honest.

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Originally Posted by Orange

I'll say technique. I've always thought a good dj can make a crap record sound good. Consider the ever so technical hip hop djz. Give em a box of polka b-sides and they'll keep a crowd captivated for hours.

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I agree in principle that great turntablism can be captivating. I love to watch turntablists in action, in fact I've got a few DMC and Scratch Pervert vids that I view with envy repeatedly, and yes they can do great things with any old tunage. But there's a subtle but important difference here in the aims of a turntablist and a tecnho DJ surely ?. Hip hop/turntablists are all about the spectacle. 'Captivating' isn't the same as getting people shaking their asses on the floor.

Let me elaborate on my original question : As well as some of the recent posts I'd read, another event prompted me to ask the question in the first place. At a party a young DJ was mashing up some techno with fantastic technical ability. Now here's the thing, instead of dancing a lot of people were watching him. Some were making comments like "check out that wicked terminating" (which to me was boring after the first 30 seconds), "Great scratching", "wicked beat juggling" etc. You get the picture. But it was bland and boring, despite, or maybe because of, all the trickery.
A bit later, a more experienced DJ who's been around a while got on the decks playing some nice floor killers and really started to get the party moving. He's a bit rusty these days and this was a bit of a rare outing for him so his technique was a bit slack. The same crowd who had been bigging up the earlier DJ for his tricks were very quick to start shouting "Oi, sort it out" etc. at any fluff or lazy beat. But he was still making the party dance, and surely that's the idea isn't it ? Unlike the earlier trickster he was watching the floor and playing tunes that, in his judgement, would do the damage. And they did, but he still got abuse for ropey technique.

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Originally Posted by Ryan Blackman

I don't think Hip-Hop (music) and Techno (music) are really comparable to be honest.

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i completely disagree.

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Originally Posted by deafmosaic

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Originally Posted by Ryan Blackman

I don't think Hip-Hop (music) and Techno (music) are really comparable to be honest.

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i completely disagree.

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What are your reasons??

What I meant by that was you don't layer hip hop records like you do techno records. Can you imagine lining up 3 hip-hop tracks on three decks?? There's no point in doing that, it would sound crap.

So ultimately, being able to mix three techno tunes together (and having the perception to choose which three records) is a harder task than employing basic hip hop skills. IMHO, of course.

i agree with ryan. Techno and hip hop are not comparable. They are like two different art forms. Turntablism is about captovating your audience and putting on a show. Techno is about building the audience to climax's with perfect record selection.

I'd say that Sims, Claude Young & Mills all employ hip-hop skills on the decks. Combining those skills within a techno environment is what I prefer. As long as the dj doesnt fcuk about too much and lose the beat. It's only the trainspotter people that end up watching the dj. I'd prefer to get off on the music. Hip-hop djs get a bit anal about the whole show but someone like Craze can manipulate the decks and keep the beat flowing.

3 hip-hop records on 3 decks would work if the dj can pull it off. Techno is easier to mix becuase its so stripped down.

Listen to early Wizard sets...at that time Mills was mixing hip hop, electro, funk, house whilst he was scratching & beat juggling.

A pionnering DJ has skills in every department.

Foooooooooie, lost my reply.

It's my first post here, so hello all, it looks like an excellent forum you've built here Mr EG, with a great attitude

I just wanted to stick my oar in on this one,

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Originally Posted by Ryan Blackman

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Originally Posted by deafmosaic

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Originally Posted by Ryan Blackman

I don't think Hip-Hop (music) and Techno (music) are really comparable to be honest.

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i completely disagree.

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What are your reasons??

What I meant by that was you don't layer hip hop records like you do techno records. Can you imagine lining up 3 hip-hop tracks on three decks?? There's no point in doing that, it would sound crap.

So ultimately, being able to mix three techno tunes together (and having the perception to choose which three records) is a harder task than employing basic hip hop skills. IMHO, of course.

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I'll have to disagree with you on this one as well Ryan, I think the whole point about techno, and indeed DJ'ing across the board is that there are NO rules, for me a quality DJ, whatever the genre, is forward thinking and creates a fresh, full of attitude atmosphere using a combination of techniques - layering, scratching, cutting and simply inspired track matching. I'd be surprised if a quality hip hop DJ didn't have a very similar approach.

I also think that three hip hop records could well be lined up and played together with great results, honest I really do

In answer to the topic, for me the most important thing is selection by a vast vast margin, I'd much rather hear a 17 year old kid with no experience, and no god-given talent playing a poorly mixed set of fantastic music than hearing a technically superb DJ of whatever genre playing dull tracks.

Yeah, the Wizard did mash it up, indeed.

I think you guys are missing my point slightly. The topic asked skills or beats- which is more important to you.

I said music.

Now, you cannot honestly say the same mood can be created with hip hop that can be with techno. They are completely different, therefore not comparable.

Man, it's like orgasms and sticky sheets - you cant have one without the other.

No one wants to listen to a 2 hour set of Spice Girls seamlessly blended with the Steps posee, and again - the sweetest of tech tunes would be slaughtered if mixed together by your grandad Sammy...

You need a happy medium!! Also someone mentioned 3 deck mixing......again, I'd rather listen to someone pick the needle up and replay a serious slab of techno 20 times ina set than listen to 3 average tunes mixed together for an eternity...

Anyone with me on this?

firstly:

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the most technically proficient DJ in the world playing pop records would still sound crap, skils or no skills. Music all the way...........

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bang on couldn't agree with you more......

As for the hip-hop/techno debate well I have to say i don't think they are comparable in a music sense..... And the reasons why are all well doccumented above.

However I would argue that they are comparable in that they get the most out of their 1210's and mixer.....

What pop dj ever turned the cartridge upside down and then slid the vinyl over the needle?

I'm going to take a shot at comparing hiphop and techno because, well, its something to do.

So, lets say I'm in a night club and the music coming out the speakers is techno, and its bland, boring, whatever, and I don't feel like dancing, and am not generally impressed at all, then it could be said that the music makes me "feel" a certain way.
If the next time I'm going out I decide to go to a hip hop club instead, and while I'm there find the hip hop music to be bland and boring and I don't feel like dancing, an am not generally impressed, blah, blah, then again, it could be said that the music makes me "feel" a certain way.
Following this, I would suggest that you can compare techno and hip hop music, in that, both styles can make you "feel" the same way: like dancing or not dancing, for example.
Now, if the hiphop dj is exceptionally talented, and decides to cut, scratch, mix and juggle beats in order to put some spark into his/her set, then he/she can turn a boring, bland hiphop set into something special. The dj, can then change the way you "feel," based upon technical ability. The techno dj, on the other hand, is probably not going to save a bland and boring set by tightly mixing one track into another, but if the techno dj was exceptionally talented, he/she might also cut, scratch, mix and juggle until also changing the way you are "feeling."
So, in this way both styles can be compared as similar, and the importance of dj technical skill can again be highlighted.
The question again is, would you rather a dj with all the hits, or the all the skills? The truth, I think, is that you want a variation , because, as we all know, too much of any good thing kills that "feeling" on its own. Hear the "hit" tracks again, and again, and you might prey for a backspin. While hearing the same technically skilled dj tear it up night after night is also going to eventually lose its magic. So, enjoy what any night of music provides because bland, boring tracks make the good tracks stand out, and poor skills allows others to shine. If your dj on the night has neither, then go home.
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