raw energy vs slick production

i saw that there was already some discussion of this a little while ago, but it struck a chord with me so i wanted to add my 2 cents.

i've been pondering and from time to time ranting about the absurdity we facin the the fac that the underround music scene has started to demand sound quality that exceeds what can be done on an underground budget.

once upon a time, kids with next to nothing got real excited about hearing other kids with next to nothing make some terrible racket on stage. punk rock. it sounded bad, but it meant something.

acid techno, same story, but injected with alien technology from another dimension (hidden inside the tb303). raw energy that really spoke to people who were open to it at an emotional level.

no complicate things with progressive, psytrance, sexy french house, etc. music that has enough in common with the underground that they recognize it as being their music, yet also appeals to a big enough market to actually make some money, and gets produced in big ass, wicked sounding studios. (i love psytrance, btw)

now all of a sudden if the production doesn't sound like it came from a super pro studio, it's no good, even if the composition and arrangement are stellar.

it's like the ravers are spoiled, and have forgotten their roots. alas, not much i can do about it except whine and complain! :)

Damn right some ravers (I hate that title) are spoiled with the real popular, mainstream DJ's sound quality. Then when one of the underground DJ's gets the chance to play to a HUGE mass, the crowds disperse. Which is why I love underground parties, cause no matter what you're playing, it all sounds good in that type of setting.

But what can you do? You can't please everyone :snooty:

but ya know we all do have to keep moving forward huh!
thrs nuffink wrong with top quality production and you cant tell me that it squashes raw energy. if the person writing the record is a musician than the record will just be even better thn before in my opinion.

i think things just get a lil more subtle somtimes, and i personally like it that way. i like jhaving to listen carefully or ask a few questions.
i mean i do not enjoy walking onto a dancefloor and having it all laid out for me ya know? i like fresh ground.

you can put out really good quality output from a £200 sound card and a nicked copy of reason, fruity, cubase - so wish people would cut the excuses for shit production.

that's not really the point i was trying to make. i'm not making excuses for shit production.

i'm asking, what will the next punk rock be? it was us for a while, but it isn't anymore.

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now all of a sudden if the production doesn't sound like it came from a super pro studio, it's no good, even if the composition and arrangement are stellar.

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Comon, its soo easy these days to do a good mixdown and run a few plugins. Why would anyone want to settle for shit production if theres so many people doing it properly?

Even noisey and experimental shit sounds better when produced properly...

obviously, anybody who stops to think about it will conclude that sounding better is better.

but i'm talking about people not stopping to think about it. getting wasted and risking making fools of themselves by getting on stage and covering up the fact that they don't know what they are doing by turning it up louder. lighting instruments on fire. pissing on amplifiers. and the audience liking it.

there have been times in history when the underground music scene was like that. i'm not asking for excuses to sound bad. i'm asking what has changed in society that has resulted in our lack of appreciation for reckless buffoonery.

this has really made me think. basically difference, to me, is very important. i try to be different in most things i do, i make my own rules and i try to do my own thing. f.ck everyone else to a certain extent. but one thing i've always found is you must always keep quality in everything you do. you can't be truly shit without quality in your shit, if you see what i mean. to me techno is still punk rock sometimes - the stuff that sounds so bad but yet soooooo good and you think you're listening to something so revolutionary. but quality is the most important thing it really is. it's about getting the balance and those that do it are surely the true innovators. if music doesn't have the quality, it means anyone can make it and that to me is a bad thing because if you haven't had to struggle in your life then you take things for granted and you have no attitude or purpose in your life. and there's certainly no way you'll make revolutionary music.

my immediate 2 cents...

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Originally Posted by Evil G

but i'm talking about people not stopping to think about it. getting wasted and risking making fools of themselves by getting on stage and covering up the fact that they don't know what they are doing by turning it up louder. lighting instruments on fire. pissing on amplifiers. and the audience liking it.

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i don't agree with this at all. the true pro's DO know what they are doing and do think about it. and the audience wouldn't like it if the undelying quality wasnt there. they'd just think they were a load of ass holes. and if you have worked hard on the quality of your music you're going to make damn sure the music is first and the pissing on the amps is 2nd. balance is surely what it's all about ;)

don't worry man, i'm not advocating anything like that. i take pride in making my tunes sound as good as i can, and i wouldn't trash somebody's equipment... it was more of a sociological pondering about how society has changed in the last 30 years.

yeah totally and i'm just saying my bit. :)

was really interested in hearing a deeper opinion from
you on what i wrote...

this is such a fantastic topic.

np. :)

i think your comment about struggle is important to this topic. i think that during the punk era, people had enough struggle and despair in their lives that when somebody stood up and loudly complained about it, that was good enough. nobody expected punk musicians to try hard, or be professional. people were rebelling because trying hard didn't seem to get them anywhere, and smashing stuff seemed like a lot less trouble with a lot bigger reward.

these days i think people are more optimistic about being able to rise up and succeed if they try hard enough, and also more realistic about what happens when you give up. it's weird that there is so much optimism at a time when so many terrible things are happening in the world. nonetheless, people today seem to have more of a belief that anything is possible if they put their mind to it, and we respect those who succeed in the face of adversity more than those who just rail against it .

i don't know. i think we could be setting ourselves up for a big let down, when we figure out that we can't all be rock stars, but time will tell.

I think the whole punk thing was more about doing it yourself, and really just doing it! Not so much about sounding shit on purpose (they just happened to sound shit LOL)

We still get to use the punk ethos of do it yourself, we're just lucky that now 30 years on, we have the technology not only to do it ourselves, but to make it sound good! That's the beauty is that yes it's required that you sound shit hot, but these days you can do it virtually for free. You don't even really need to think about it too much, you can just put all of your energy into the artistic free expression side of it, and the computer does the tough part (I'm speaking in general here, obviously there are studio geniuses and big $$$ equipment is going to sound a lot better)

Long live the spirit of PUNK (without the earaches :P)