'Attitude'

Right I got the idea for this off a topic in the techno forum that discusses the trade off between rawness and quality.

For the record, I do believe you NEED the quality in your tracks,
but the big point is you need rawness in your music or, 'attitude'. Just as punk rock had that attitude, hard techno needs that attitude.

So how do you guys go about doing this?

For us it's always been controlled distortion. But there's only so far this can keep you interested before you understand it and then you start to look for something else. Recently Ableton has given me a new lease of life as far as banging something in and saying 'ave some of that' goes. In fact saying 'ave some of that' is surely the key to it all. Making the kick clack also makes me think the same thing. Experimenting with the 100-120 region is beginning to excite me.

What are other ppl's ways of keeping that 'attitude' going?

i like to assert attitude via the arrangement more than the sounds themselves, because, as you say, distortion can only take you so far. i like to use relatively clean sounds, but arranged in a creative way that gets your attention and then force feeds you something that might not taste bad, but doesn't taste the way you expected it to.

Not me. :)

I decided years ago to aim my choons squarely at the 3am slot in the main room. For a long time, I couldn't figure out why the energy I was thinking of when I made my tracks just wasn't coming across... the answer was in the sounds. Minimal techno can be totally bangin', but in order to do that, the individual sounds have to be bangin'.

When I am building a sound, say, on the Nord Modular, I know there'll be a mix to contend with to get the sound across, so I make the sound I want, then make it twice as sharp, cutting, and irritating. I like to use many filters, "wavewrapper", parametric EQ, etc, to make the sound be *stupid* on its own, but shine through a busy mix.

I'm just learning the studio side, tho. This works hella for live use. :) BBE Sonic Maximizers and Aphex Aural Exciters help a lot too.

cut up, really effected & distorted loops help too. Stragetically placed sounds go along way as well.

2 me it's all about synthesis (even if it means warping samples), lots of little sequencing details, keeping it crazy without going overboard. Also the atittude is also 2 do with different moods, being able 2 b sarcastic, humourous, funky or downright dirty n distorted... Not doing many things the same way, not doing many formulas or 4 tracks'a' day!

Z

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Originally Posted by DJ Ze MigL

2 me it's all about synthesis (even if it means warping samples), lots of little sequencing details, keeping it crazy without going overboard. Also the atittude is also 2 do with different moods, being able 2 b sarcastic, humourous, funky or downright dirty n distorted... Not doing many things the same way, not doing many formulas or 4 tracks'a' day!

Z

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As far as i am concerned yes you need aggressive sounds but what really
keeps a track flowing and pumping is CREATIVE PROGRAMMING it dont matter how much energy a section has, if i`m hearing it over and over again without much change it just sounds ploddy,ploddy,ploddy, arrangement is paramount also. ;)

to me the attitude comes from dirtying up the whole sound. i dont mean full on distortion all the time, but some positive gain can bring life to even the most boring of sounds! for eg. a 909 closed hat - sounds really poncy in a track, but whack the gain on the mixing desk up and you've already got a little sparkle and thats just to start with. Also, i'm not a huge fan of panning.. mild panning on certain sounds can be nice (and its obviously needed to break up sounds in the stereo field) but hard panning can take away the *oomph* in a track. I find keeping all panning to within 20/25% of centre, gives my tracks a more upfront and in your face feel.

I try my best not to use too much distortion these days. When its turned up its all about the dynamics for me. Distortion does bring out octave related harmonics (I tend to go for virtual guitar amps for this) but I find that its main use is fo maximising a sound. Making it sound loud even when its decaying. Heavy compression combined with subtle distortion works well for me. Pass the line and it it brings out harsh frequencies and can make sounds sound thinner and reduce bass.

Recently I have been experimenting with bit crushing and re-sampling. Digital dirtiness can sound clean when its nice and bright and combined with other fx like Chorus or stereo delays.

Detuning synths too! Pitching down synths woaaaaaaaaaa :D:D:D:D:D

I have found that tracks that dont have loads of distortion do sound raw when its loud. Large rigs do add some distortion to it. Plus it’s much more pleasing on the ears. I try to find new ways of making you think phoarr thats dirty without it been distorted

In a way I think its possible to have a sound that’s dirty but still sounds nice at the same time. Perhaps?!?

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Originally Posted by The Divide

In a way I think its possible to have a sound that’s dirty but still sounds nice at the same time. Perhaps?!?

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i think in drum and bass parlance, such a sound would be called "sick". ;)

had a thermionic labs culture vulture in the studio once, if you can get your hands on one give it a go, it has the most amazling useful subtle distortion (as well as a setting that sound slike the beatles revolution track!)

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Originally Posted by Evil G

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Originally Posted by The Divide

In a way I think its possible to have a sound that’s dirty but still sounds nice at the same time. Perhaps?!?

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i think in drum and bass parlance, such a sound would be called "sick". ;)

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Ohhhh yea man!!! Those ****ing bass lines sound bad ass! :twisted:

I think decent layering and thickness of sound goes a lot further than "lets just distort all this".

add a few swearwords or talk about drugs and hey presto!

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Originally Posted by techno_smack

add a few swearwords or talk about drugs and hey presto!

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well i was actually trying to be a bit more constructive that that with this topic :evil:

:shock: haha! yeah sorry twas meant to be a joke. Its very difficult to say what gives a tune attitude and rawness, its a really tough question. I would love to say a knew some technique other than adding distortion, but its not something you can really describe how to do. I mean even the melody of a bassline or whatever can seem to have attitude sometimes. But why is that?

Its alot easier to say how to create cheese than raw sounding stuff, There is not really any guidelines to say what has it and what doesn't. Its just something that alot of us try and make present in our productions.

bo selecta!

i dunno, im all for quality.. im not sure if my music has much 'attitude' but im cool with that, as i myself dont have much 'attitude' and my only 'rawness' comes a few hours after an evening on the curry..

I know what you are saying though but i am well in favour of quality sound over rawness.. if both can be achived then fantastic (quite rare imo) but more than often producers either have a clean sound or a dirty sound.. and if i have to choose then give me clean anyday.

I do like tracks to have character of course - just not necessarily punky attitude type character as thats not somthing i can relate to.

I think if there was more emphasis on good production (which is what this is really all about) there would be less rubbish music out there clogging up the industry - people would think twice about releasing thier underproduced music as the overall standard would be much higher than it currently is.

Basically i think that 'rawness' you talk about is used by too many people as an excuse for production skills that arent yet up to scratch. It is well possible to have good crisp production and a raw sound - a producer should be able to make somthing sound dirty and clean at the same time..

I think a raw, dirty sound can work well, even if a lttle clarity is lost as a result. It depends on the effect the music is inteded to have.
Sometimes a slightly murky mix gives a sense of darkness or confusion & can bring a bit of ambiguity to a track, which I think can work in its favour, providing this reflects the atmosphere of the musical content...

rawness.. works well when its being played "outloud!" but to have a track that sounds heavily distorted and raw in the first place seems stupid - when most places run the sound system to its death...

but anyway - i'd like to say that..

a chewn that can evolve between the two sounds.. nice and harsh works best for me :eh:

i keep my tunes ruff by soendin as little time as possible.

i used to take 3-4 weeks a track, but i found i was losin the sparkle & that rush that comes from gettin a new loop down...

i try to keep a track within 2 sessions. writin then the next day, mixin.

and i never adhere to 'rules'
i turn my shit on make sumthin rock. if the rest of the world dont like it, fine, i made it for me.