Is commercialism stoppable?

Ive already posted my thoughts on this Mixmag interview on germantrance.com so I'm not gonna go on about that.

But what has been spinning round my head all night is, if the media do decide they want to make "Hardstyle" the next big thing will Mark & the gang beable to stop it?

lets just say that all of the big guns in the UK hardstyle scene are completely against it which I really do hope they are, will they beable to prevent ministry of sound and the rest from getting their hands on material which they can use to throw together some compilation CDs and turn "hardstyle" into a commercial buzzword.

What I mean is, would a small record label in Italy have any objections with getting a nice big cheque from some company theyve never heard of from the other side of the world to put some of their tracks on a compilation CD that wont effect their scene in italy in any way?

These thoughts on commercialism are cropping up everywhere at the moment. There's always been a worry about people like Judge Jules and things like him playing the odd German trance record but now the debate is really relavant. For the past 6 months (since Fergie started to play techno on Radio 1) there's been huge talk in the techno underground about techno going commercial. Now with the UK's pinnicle of hype, Mixmag, discovering harstyle, it's happening to this too.

The fact is, nothing is sacred anymore. Information is too easily accessed (the internet) and the underground is being discovered too easily. this is the root cause of the problem.

I'm worried about hardstyle becoming commercial, just as I was worried about German trance in the 90's. But if I remember rightly, Judge Jules and the like didn't focus 100% on this sound and UK producers made a watered down version of trance for the commercial market.

The thoughts about 'hard style' becoming the new 'hard house' worry me too. But as with German trance, UK producers simply can't make this sound. And for something to become commercial in this country, you've got to have a UK base of producers making it. That's why German trance never became commercial in this country. And why 'hard house' is massive. You ask ANY german record label about the demo's they get from UK producers and they've laugh saying 'We don't like UK production'. The English simply don't understand hard trance production, and are not even coming close to understanding how to make hardstyle.

As for the Italian labels 'selling' out in this country. I think it could and couldn't happen. Believe me, if the German trance labels had really had the opportunity to make it big in this country, they would have done it. It's why Scot Project saws stars when he got a call from Gatecrasher. And why SHOKK are on the Ministry Of Sound compilations. But the German's have had huge experience of business since 92. The Italians could either 'see stars' and grab at everything (and get it) or try to get all the big UK deals and simply not have the musical business know-how to exploit everything. From speaking to the main distributors over there, I feel it would be the latter. They're sooooooooo not their when it comes to business. So that's a plus!

I'm sure all of us will agree who live for the 'underground', we do so because (a) we wanna be musically a step ahead and (b) we like being 'different'. We love being part of a group of peope that passionately live a sound. Over the last twenty years I've been into so many different strains of dance music, but as soon as something goes commercial - I move off it and look for something as exciting. Or find a slightly different variation of it. I'm sure, IF we hear lish lashes play continuous sets of Titanic Records/Subway etc, we'll find something else. Sure, it's harder than ever to find underground forms of dance music these days, but we WILL do it over time. We did it with Scot Project, just when we thought the sun shone out of his ass, and we'll do it again. That's what keeps up a 'step ahead'.

I think anyone who loves the underground should be very wary. Things are really getting too close to call these days, much more so than it ever has done, but that's what is going to keep us a step ahead. And we should feel safe with the knowledge that that is what we will do.

One thing: The internet can seem so great, but it also has the real power to distroy underground music. You might think it's great downloading the latest mix by DJ Arsey Wipe (the world's most underground hardstyle DJ) - plus complete tracklisting - but so can that hard house money maker DJ Slut Bag from Ilovehoover Records and copy the sound. And whilst we all think we're so underground with our posh computers and access to German trance.com - are we really doing all we can to find/create new music?

There HAS to be another way...

well said Mark :wink:
at the end of the day we are all in this business because we love what we do and we love our music and if Mr Popular wants to try and come along and rape our scene just to make a few pound then he can **** RIGHT OFF as we know better as we will always know the real sound and IMO you (Mark) will still be at the forefront leading the underground

Agreed! there has to be another way.

Maybe a way forward for the underground to evolve away from the media, is to break away from using record labels altogether. With websites like Kazaa we now have the ability to download professional costly music packages for free and burn tracks onto Cd for just the price of the CD.

A system could develop were each DJ/producer has a mailing list who are emailed a sample of his or her latest creation, if they want it then they order a copy which they recieve on CD. This means that the producer wont have to waste money on getting the track onto vinyl and would basically be making profit for their hardwork from the start.

Obviously everyone would have to convert to CD decks, or those MP3 decks would be even better. Nobody could touch the scene then.

i see what your seeing mate but imo theres no beter way to dj than with vinyl,ok i use cdrs now an again but only to road test stuff i have done or demos ive recieved.It just wouldnt feel right to me not using vinyl

One thing that i've been thinking about for the past couple of nights is what I would do if hardstyle became commercial in, say, the next week. The very obvious answer, and the answer which I bet 99% of you will give, is 'I would change my style'.
Now to be a truly excellent dj, you must have an absolute love for the music that you play. I love hardstyle, I love hard trance - I like other forms of dance music, but my heart has always belonged to those two. I suppose that if I were to change style, i'd probably go for techno as a second.
The question that's been bugging me then, is why would I change my style? It'd still be the same music, just more people would know about it. More people would like it, and is that such a bad thing? You guys are suggesting hiding the best stuff away here, and I have to say I really don't agree with that. Imagine if the italian stuff existed, but was hid away from you - yes, there are a lot of idiots out there who will maybe not appreciate our music and use it for their own gain, but there are also a lot of people who would love the music as much as we do now.
I know that there are a lot more factors to it going commercial, but I think that right now, if it happened, i'd probably stick with hardstyle.

commercialisation is a gradual thing. there's absolutely no way on earth that 'hardstyle' can become commercial in the next week. sure, judge jules my by a shit load of italian stuff next week but there's no way he'd leave everything he ever stands for and switch to another style. the same goes for any dj out there who's built up a reputation. you simply wouldn't just 'switch'.

i think when i talk of finding something different, it's a slow process, but you follow your heart and you do it slowly. if more and more dj's started to play hardstyle over the next six months you'd soon get p***ed off with everyone knowing your records and DJ's playing the same as you. so you'd probably find the odd label that no-one knew about - and you'd play the sh*t out of it... and you'd have a slightly different sound in your set... and you'd gradually be changing your style. 1 year down the line and you're a different DJ.

i dont think id change my style id still play the stuff i loved but if it did go commercial there would be tons and tons of shit wannabe hardstyle coming out and i would steer clear of that and stick to what ive always played

I'm starting to loose sight of what commercialism is?

I thought it was basically when something becomes so popular that money making industries latch on to it and promote it and sell it with out regard to the true nature of the music, but to just make money.

I don't mean to sound harsh and this is purely my opinion... there is nothing anyone can do to stop this unless you licence hard style to be only played by certain DJ's... therefore the audience remains underground.

I'm sad about the situation, but we have to remain strong and stick to our guns. Commercialism will pass, that's if it really does take a look at hard style.

One thing that confuses me is why uplifting trance doesn't get a look in now? I've been buying a lot of that recently cause there's some good stuff about which nobody seems to play, and the commercial world has shit on uplifting many times (i.e Castles In The Sky).

We can only be strong I guess.