Traktor Scratch, Sorento and DJ stuff...

OK guys, I need someone's help on this who knows what they're talking about.

Yeah, I've been through it, the vinyl to CD change. Sure it's alot easier than vinyl to play, the sound quality is far more superior (imo because of the fluff and skip issue with vinyl, but i'm sure some ppl would beg to differ). But it's got to the stage where I've realised that it's not all about the quality. It's also the performance. And that's where I really badly need to be playing vinyl.

OK so I've heard about Final Scratch over the years and now I need to look at these technologies. Traktor Scratch is just out and it looks wicked. It also has midi out so hopefully I can sync to Ableton. But I remember alot of moaning about Final Sctratch over the years.. Is TS any better?

I heard about this sorento thing but has this got midi out? I think the syncing to Ableton will be invaluable for me and take my DJing to a whole new level.

Also I will have to buy a new laptop I think (I'm not taking mine on the road).. What would you guys recommend as a unit to be taking out runnung this shit (pc or mac)?

Phew so many q's. Any answers much appreciated :)

go for ms. pinky or sereto

traktor no longer supports final scratch so thats out the window.

ms pinky can be re-wired to ableton which is awesome.

as far as laptop is concerned.. ive been using a dell inspiron 9300 for 2 years with no issues.. running ableton live with a ton of fx. go for 2.8ghz or higher with at least a gig of ram.. also a widescreen(17") can make life easier in ableton.

Do you mean serato? I have READ several reviews stating serato scratch live is better than FS, FS2. I have not tested either. I know that Richie Hawtin has gone from FS to rane. Chris Liebing did use FS but now uses a Traktor and Ableton combo... There also is a new contender, called torq by m-audio afaik. SSL seems to be generally valued highly. The only system i have used myself and not in a club-context is djdecks. Which costs almost nothing and in combination with good preamps and just about any timecoded vinyl enables you to at least (if not more) find out if the entire style of mixing is something you like. That's all i can add. djdecks is by far the cheapest afaik and really made my jaw drop so i can imagine the more expensive solutions would be even better. This torq thing enables you to use vst-plugins and u can use vst-plugins in djdecks as well.

Mark, you should PM Jay Pace... he uses (I think) Final Scratch almost exclusively, so he should be able to give you some anecdotal feedback on how good it is.

From what I understand there's not much to choose between FS and Serato, though lots of breaks heads seem to plump for Serato. I think it tracks better if you're scratching or something.

ok this is madness. there are loads of systems out there i see but surely the only way to know if it's right for yourself is to try it out. do turnkey demo these systems? does anyone know of a shop where i can do this???

My 2p

Final Scratch is a very unpleasant thing to use IMHO, we used it at work for along time and the hardware eventually died good n proper. and with hardly any use as well.

FS2 - no comment havnt used it

Traktor - great program, but fidlly to use and expensive

Rane - used this, great for scratching but thats all i can say cos i didnt use it for mixing.

soundcontrol should let you demo some kit

yeah i already asked sound control in leeds and they have just scalled their dj setup down, so no demo.

this is what i seem to have learnt so far.

tracktor scratch has replaced final scratch and final scratch 2. so ok, fs is out of the question, i want the newest shit here. basically it's two timecoded vinyls running tracktor 3. i can sync this up via midi clock to ableton on the same computer and i should be rockin. apparently there's a g4 powerbook issue but most ppl seem to report it's the shit.

ok so then there's rane sereto. similar thing and can rewire to ableton too. lovely.

but what are the REAL differences between these two here? is it just software? or are there usability issues too?

also learnt that torq can be rewired. BUt when you rewire with ableton, it disables your timecoded vinyl! now, i dunno is this is true but if so, that's out the question.

as for ms pinky, the software looks a bit shit imho. and of course, if the whole reason i'm doing this is to enhance performance, then whatever is on the screen does have to look good! heh plus i'd have to buy an external sound card, there's no breakout type box to plug in the dj mixer???????? and i'm definitely not taking my motu on the road!

also found out about this: http://www.flstudio.com/documents/deckadance.html
but from what i can gather it's a vsti and i don't see how you can use this to control the master tempo of ableton using timecoded vinyl.

phew. am i on the right track here do you think guys??

deckadance: ''Works as standalone or VSTi plugin inside hosts like FL Studio, Ableton Live, ...''

I think i'd go for ssl, been mentioned several times in this thread. Read a detailed test comparing it to FS 2. The author got himself SSL. Only thing that he noticed he din't like to much was the noise the timcode vinyl produced? I would probably test this one first, there must be some place where you can? It's tried and tested i reckon whereas deckadance is quite new..... Good luck! PS: Whilst googling i found raving reviews of torq.. here's a video, Mark:

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=...4eb8c623da5b64

And here's the other videos from the m-audio homepage explaining every aspect:

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=...4eb8c623da5b64

any idea where that review is loopy? plus i'm interested whether traktor scratch is any better than fs2....

and yeah just checked those demos out of torq. holy **** it auto syncs the music for you in a certain mode - ie no need to learn beat matching. jesus h christ, if only that would have been around 15 years ago hahahahaah :cheese:

well, the review was by Irwin Leschet in the german magazine raveline. In german. I will try and find the mag, must be somewhere in the flat...

I will dig up some misc links:

general comparison

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=...4eb8c623da5b64

Traktor scratch videos:

http://www.native-instruments.com/in...cratchrehab_us

http://www.native-instruments.com/in...ratchdenkym_us

And a nice comparison of 3 systems:

http://www.skratchworx.com/reviews/digitalshowdown.php

goes over several pages, with videos:

http://homepage.mac.com/marksettle/....s2_cdx/FS2.mov

http://homepage.mac.com/marksettle/....cdx/Serato.mov

http://homepage.mac.com/marksettle/....s2_cdx/CDX.mov

All this is probably more confusing than helpful; best thing must be to test stuff out as you said.

For everybody else who wants a cheap version to play with at home etc. should head over to

http://djdecks.be/

http://djdecks.be/vinylcontrol/

Can be skinned to look like Serato etc. etc.

ok, i need a place where i can test this shit out - anywhere in the uk preferably or otherwise i will travel to anywhere in europe.

also what are the big shows coming up in this field? anywhere in europe would be gr8... i need to get ahead on this.

This new Traktor Scratch thingy has multicore cables the idea being that it becomes the industry standard, clubs plug a pair of these cables permanently into their mixers, you can rock up and just attach your bit of the multicore to their bit and bobs your uncle.

I've been using FS2 for a while now and take it fom me, setting up is a massive pain in the ass. If the whole pre wired club scenario came about it would be a revolution and you'd want to have Traktor Scratch, of course there's every chanc that it won't.

And NI are doing a sort of update deal at the moment where any registered users of Traktor, FS or Rane can get TS for 399 Euros, about 271 quid. Tempting.

I use FS2 and Traktor 3

Traktor 3 is excellent, and the main reason I went with FS2. I don't scratch so wasn't that bothered about lightning response times, and I can't notice the difference when mixing.

FS2 is stable, hard wearing and pretty solid.

But - its one more thing to go wrong, and you need a bit of time and space to setup. Its not difficult, but I challenge you not to crap yourself a little bit when you have to unplug the decks from the dj before you, plug them into FS, boot up traktor and pray that the timecode locks on for you.

9 out of 10 times its fine - but there's always a worry - maybe the needles are rubbish, or the tone arm has been wired in wrong (happens) or a cable has been L/R inverted or similar.

And no matter what the dj system - all of them require that you plug the deck directly into the unit to read the timecode directly, then back out into the mixer. A lot can go wrong in between, and troubleshooting before you play is a nightmare.

The older contendors (rane and FS2) are well road tested, upgraded and well used. I'd be more inclined to go with the established players than the challengers, who are yet to prove their mettle and more importantly their stability.

another option is ms pinky
http://www.mspinky.com/

it can be used as a VST also, plus you can adapt it loads with max msp

I bought FS 2 years ago....worked ok...I was just sick of setting the shit up everywhere I played....


I too am tired of shitty presses ****ing up good tracks, and not to mention, I'm sick of ****ed up equipment at parties out here in Arizona so now I am 100% digital using Traktor 3 and a controller...soon to get the new vestax vci 100....

I'll take that over decks and a crappy mixer any night of the week....


But back to your question....go with Traktor Scratch or if you just arent comfortable...go with Serato...its seems to be ultra reliable...although those spinning labels on the interface are useless and make shit more confusing than they need to be....