Grrrr ear training and pain in the arse referencing....

Getting a bit frustrated.

Most of my mixes translate as overly warm - too much weighting towards the bottom end of things, and whilst I really like how they sound on their own they can sound a bit lightweight when played next to other tracks. Partly thats how I like mixes to sound, party I have hyperacusis and high frequency sounds hurt my ears, so I tend to keep them down a bit.

This pisses me off a bit, because essentially to make a commercial dj release you seem have to follow the same loud as hell impossibly maximised thrash the arse of everything approach to balancing your mix, otherwise when your track is mixed alongside another one it will seem lightweight. So whilst I'll be really happy with how tracks sound on their own, they start sounding a bit light compared to other tracks.

Any tips for getting round this? Particularly I don't know how the **** I am supposed to reference properly when even well mixed well mastered reference tracks will hurt my ears around certain mid to high range frequencies. Snares and claps particularly on records I know sound kick ass on a rig can sound too loud when I am running them through studio monitors. Argh.

Could be a slightly stupid answer....But maybe visually look at a track you know has the "commercial weight" you speak off using a spectrum analyser and then compare it to your own productions? Maybe try some different monitors as well if you can?

Although if you really want to get into the science of creating a good mix then I can reccomend "Understanding and Crafting the Mix: The Art of Recording" by William Moylan. It's good but I should warn you, it's very heavy on the theory side but it does cover everything (including ear training).

yeah spectrum analysers are ok to make sure you don't have any weird spikes etc, but mixes need to be about balance more than flat frequency response. If you put early minus or plastikman stuff through a specturm analyser you get a weird looking freq response, but they are killer tracks with incredible production and mastering.

Have tried plenty of monitors, recently had to trade in my mackies for KRKs but to be honest any decent studio monitor will replicate the audio signal with flat response accuracy - I just have a personal problem with a certain high frequency range that sounds overly nasty.

Been thinking about putting a compensating EQ curve over my master out to correct for my ears/painful taste - take well mastered tracks and put an EQ setting over them to get them to sound "how I like"... the theory being that I I then make things "how I like" once the compensating EQ is taken off it should be "how things need to be".

Cheers for the book tip mate, will have a dig about for it.

hmm, hard to say, i would try to increase RMS on separate sounds,. when not overdoing it, iit can help the track to sound heavier once all the sounds are mixed together. i also hate too much of limiting as it take out the naturality and dynamcis of the sounds, but it could help a bit when you need morenergy in the sounds.

maybe you need some accoustic treatments in your studio as you can have inbalance low to hi frequencies...

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Originally Posted by Jay Pace

Getting a bit frustrated.

Most of my mixes translate as overly warm - too much weighting towards the bottom end of things, and whilst I really like how they sound on their own they can sound a bit lightweight when played next to other tracks. Partly thats how I like mixes to sound, party I have hyperacusis and high frequency sounds hurt my ears, so I tend to keep them down a bit.

This pisses me off a bit, because essentially to make a commercial dj release you seem have to follow the same loud as hell impossibly maximised thrash the arse of everything approach to balancing your mix, otherwise when your track is mixed alongside another one it will seem lightweight. So whilst I'll be really happy with how tracks sound on their own, they start sounding a bit light compared to other tracks.

Any tips for getting round this? Particularly I don't know how the **** I am supposed to reference properly when even well mixed well mastered reference tracks will hurt my ears around certain mid to high range frequencies. Snares and claps particularly on records I know sound kick ass on a rig can sound too loud when I am running them through studio monitors. Argh.

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Get somebody else to master them for you. Somebody you know and trust and that knows your style and exactly what you are aiming for.

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Originally Posted by DannyBlack

Get somebody else to master them for you. Somebody you know and trust and that knows your style and exactly what you are aiming for.

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yep. Read this also...

http://www.blacklistedmastering.co.uk/article01.htm

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Originally Posted by mattboyslim

yep. Read this also...

http://www.blacklistedmastering.co.uk/article01.htm

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Good article Matt, cheers!

Chris already does all my mastering (top fella), and does a great job with it.

Thats what I'm doing at the moment really. Getting as far as I can then just giving up on it and letting someone else work out what needs to be done to fix the mix.
But the better mixdown you provide, the better your master will sound.

Grrr. Probably just being anal and perfectionist, but its really pissing me off at the mo...

all i can help with is what i've learnt over the years but i'm faaaar from perfect in my mastering....

the single biggest factor that helped me get my mastering better (without having to guess and fanny around all the time) was the acoustics of the studio space. i made a huge bass box for the back of the room out of lead sheeting, bass traps, everything. besides we made the rooom ourselves, so we made it like a room within a room. my decisions are now really ****in accurate...

the second i would say is to stop experimenting all the time and start to think long and hard about the chain. use tried and tested theories.. first eq ya shit using a spectrum analyzer. sure, trust your ears in certain bit but get the hell rid of those lows that will drive the other things in the chain that dont need to be driven (BTW one thing that might be contributing to ya boomy mixes might be the fact you're not rolling off @ 38Hz). bring those highs down that are obviously too hi... then it's pretty standard - get the level up to zero, then compress, then limit - both multiband (dont forget to use filter's to understand what each band is doing!!!!) get those attack/releases right too for each band for your music.. one thing that helped me NO END when realizing this was when i spent a whole day out of the studio with a pen, paper and the internet and constructed my chain. if you do this, you're not in the studio getting distracted and you can really understand what needs to be done...

it's really funny actuallly but i go back through my unmastered stuff these days and i'm like - how the HELL did i get that so wrong in the mixdown stage!?!?!!! but it's human nature - of course your ears are gonna get shot, you're gonna put in that hi hat that's just that little bit too hi and then before you know it, 10 minutes later you've eq'ed everything else to fit with it and messed up the sound. the key i feel is to leave your studio session thinking - it's a track!!!!! then go back to it and with the correct mastering you really can make ANYTHING sound good - as long as you left that studio session 100% sure it was a track...

you see that's the thing about techno.. there's no rules because you don't have to have set 'clean' sounds in certain places in the mix... whereas if you were making pop track i really would expect it to be pretty much 100% before mastering, just a few cleanups, techno is very different.. the very fact it's a weird eq before mastering can actually make it sound very innovative and different after mastering..

hope this helps and you see what i'm saying mate :)

Great topic! I've been fighting this same battle with levels, EQ, and mastering as well. I tend to be off in the other direction though- all highs and little bottom end.

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Originally Posted by MARK EG

the second i would say is to stop experimenting all the time and start to think long and hard about the chain. use tried and tested theories.. first eq ya shit using a spectrum analyzer. sure, trust your ears in certain bit but get the hell rid of those lows that will drive the other things in the chain that dont need to be driven (BTW one thing that might be contributing to ya boomy mixes might be the fact you're not rolling off @ 38Hz). bring those highs down that are obviously too hi... then it's pretty standard - get the level up to zero, then compress, then limit - both multiband (dont forget to use filter's to understand what each band is doing!!!!) get those attack/releases right too for each band for your music.. one thing that helped me NO END when realizing this was when i spent a whole day out of the studio with a pen, paper and the internet and constructed my chain. if you do this, you're not in the studio getting distracted and you can really understand what needs to be done...

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I'm still learning the "process" and never really realized that there is a tried and true method. This info is good to know. Thanks for this!