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I've only put the titles as an example but I'm sure there's loads more (so I don't want to turn this into a debate about who is a pioneer)... but who (totally recent) is out there making a SIGNIFICANT difference in techno?
Who exactly is going to move techno to the next level?
Who will go down in the history books as the next Juan Atkins/Underground Resistance/Jeff Mills?
i don't know
well there's been lot's of hype about all sorts of producers and djs
but i just don't believe that the music itself is new enough to be groundbreaking anymore.
it's basically all been done give or take here and there
y'know
acid
minimal
loops
percussive
dark
hard
trancey
clubby
etc etc etc
i just can't imagine whwre it can go from here
unless the rythmn changes????
or some genius really does come along and show us how it's done
i have a real tendancy to agree with you here. we're not going to get another jeff mills again. instead we're going to get ppl who slightly innovate. unfortunately technology is so advanced that we cannot get ppl who can take music technology any further than it actually is.
see what i mean?
All the guys from 430 West............ the brothers, cant remember their name... Octave One etc...........
takes someone to look outside the box that's all.
430 West/Octacve One - yeah cool but we're talking about real NEW innovation here. 430 West have been around for years.
Who is gonna stick there neck out here and tell us the future of techno??????????????
Please don't post unless you're looking outside of the 'BOX' .... :D
as long as people who hold the distribution end of things to the labels that only sell and artists that are popular, we will never see one again. not commercially anyways.
The problem is the boundaries people put around themselves between what the like and what they don't like... People can come up with abstract ideas that really work, but it's only when people are open and willing to accept something different, that things will move forward...
I'd like to think we made some ground doing Uglyfunk, the A+R mission for the label was always to find something different.
Are you talking about who is going to take it to the next level production wise or dj'ing etc.
Richie Hawtin is the one pushing the boundaries of dj'ing , livewise. As in adding in tons of extra stuff , 909 , final scratch ( although using final scratch is a piece of piss)Repeater ,frequency isolators,a brand new one off Allen & Heath which is supposed to give him absolute control over whatever he does on the fly etc etc (not too sure exactly what I am talkign about her as I haven't seen it in action yet , but you can bet your ass it will be amazing).
On the production side , **** knows ,Si Begg perhaps!!! I am getting a bit ****ed off with some of the Techno coming out. I think certain producers are becoming extremely lazy and reusing the same loops and the exact same format. A lot of the swedish producers are going this way , as are a fair few of the Belgians. They both started with a great sound but haven't moved it anywhere. You pick up a record these days and one of the mixes is good and the rest are exaclty the same tribally efforts.
i totally agree
i think bongo samples should be banned ! haha
and people should be forced to start a clean slate every time they work
(by the way i read another thread that us london guys start with the same settings everytime, well mark ,you can vouch for this , i never start with anything other than a completely zero'ed mixer and an empty sampler)
i definately feel that in the last 3 years or so techno has stagnated
a few people who have broken the mould would be:
si begg (definately but not always for the dancefloor)
jerome hill
the projex people
mr rush?
perhaps the reel musik guys
luke slater?
wow i'm struggling to think of more!!
help me please
most of this stuff is now "wonky" but it still aint that new. si begg has been around for years and years he used to make techno records as buckfunk 3000 on eukatech about 4/5 years ago
his sound has however moved with the times and prgressed much more than the belgium or swedish sound or the london sound for that matter
i totally respect these people for that
the point is
is there just too much of it around now for anyone to make a difference?
the copycats are as good as perhaps even better than the originators
everyone runs a record label but plays safe with it's output because the market is small,and getting smaller .this leads to a stranglhold on good music coming out which means we get lot's of same as same as.
i played with jerome last weekend and rob stow and i heard rob saying that something was "identikit wonky"! so even that style is beginning to be copied and oversold because it makes money.
and there it is folks
MONEY!!!!!
the great leveller
esentially everyone who works in this buisness has to spend a lot of thier time working at it to get anywhere which means you need to get paid right?
and if you are a record producer you're not going to sit in the studio and hum and har and waste VALUABLE time trying to write something really original (which can be really tough these days) when you can make something that's useful and good for a label straight away.
i mean it's not like original tracks never get written but esentially everyone in the music buisness has to make this compromise at all levels underground or not.
i mean if its a hobby fine but when it becomes a job and it quickly does if you love the music as we all do. then money and the lack of it becomes a very important factor in your life.
hence very few boundary breaking genre busting records being made.
that's my view
phew!
Surely this is the problem though, it can be a bit of a downward spiral, as people keep writing pure product, more people get bored of it, and so more turned off buying records, so the market gets smaller, so then the people think there's less chance of selling more original stuff, so they write more product, which turns people off even more, which leads to less sales, which leads to the producers and distributors thinking they have to play it safer, so less interesting music gets put out, which turns off even more people from buying records which leads to............. and it goes on and on like a downward spiral until there is no market at all for any music.... Letting the tail wag the dog is a dangerous game...Quote:
Originally Posted by davethedrummer
it's good though, that there are people like Si Begg putting out stuff with real diversity, and Label owners such as Jerome, who are in it for good music, deal with people fairly, and above all willing to take a risk...
History was never won by people who played it safe....
I've only heard a bit of DE:9 and I have to say, I found it really boring, the music being pretty much like what producers such as Mike Ink have been doing for years.. The one DJ for me who has been really pushing the boundaries has to be Jerome Hill, anyone who can drop a psycobilly track in the middle of a techno set and not only get away with it, but make the crowd rock even harder is definately pushing the boundaries.. Pushing the boundaries 10 times more without the need for loads of technology to fall back on, just 2 decks and pure skills...Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrymann
Word, as I said before, Si is one of the true innovators, and not just in a serious geeky way, he's taking the piss the whole way thru...Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrymann
I reckon that the new true Techno leaders may well be people who stop using sample loops throughout a whole track and use proper played in music from their kit. Properly creative. Also people from different backgrounds and different influences will bring some new flavour never tasted before?
A lot of people have gotten lazy (I think) - real innovation comes from within (the head) technology is merely a tool/aid to realise this (creativity).
I'm probably gonna get loads of flak from people regards this issue (maybe new topic - audio samples versus midi in) but I notice with music formed mainly from samples there is very little soul, substance and human feeling to a track. When a sound is played in, it comes from within (the heart and mind) and will obviously be reflected by the music and mood.
Maybe this is what techno is, purely robotic and never human? Read some of my previous posts...
I know there are a lot of producers who already do this but maybe you aren't doing it enough?
I think samples should be used to minimum (i.e. f***ed up vocals from a film or something). Maybe 1 or 2 tops. Glenn's previous post about using single snippets at a time is brought to mind... (on the Skull tunes bitchin subject)
To the new true Techno leaders - bring it on!
peace
MM
only think the live shit is going to maek the difference. havnt heard anything new for a while now. good, but not new.
I won't take long with this ...
Music moves in a eliptic movement so everynow and then needs 2 come back 2 go forward, 2 contract 4 then 2 expand...
Ups and Downs r the stuff life is made of!
Sure there's loads of bollocks but eventually u need that 2 make it accessible so u can get new blood in...
Sure It really pis** me of that distribuiters r really f*** it up... but if it's becoming obvious it's getting all of the same then that sure also means a lot of people r getting tired of it and going 2 move on ahead... ;)
Z
Quote:
Originally Posted by miasma man
I Agree, I've often wondered how people can get their groove for their track from a whole sampled loop and consider it to be their own.. I mean I have nothing against sampling, and fair play if it's sounding cool, but it's getting to the stage where everyone seems to be doing that, and the only thing they're actually writing note for note is the Kick and hat! I swear by my Nord Modular, and even write my SOUNDS from scratch....
i've tried sampling now.. it just doesn't agree with me.. we sample certain things.. i guess.. but never techno. never anything even closely related to techno.
BLUEFACE
.
Let me back that up
by saying that his release on Primevil is one of the first records I have heard that
breaks the barriers of convention and monotony in the techno sound and is truly creative and dynamic....
some good points in here.
we could all do somthing original if we were to take some 'nigerian goat dancing' and cross it with 'bulgarian love-gabba' (whateverthe **** that is). but it would sound shite. and in fact it wouldnt be original at all, just a cross breed. im sure there is an inbred joke here somwhere, just cant put my fingr on it, anyhow..
I suppose i could get the mike out and fart and wail into it completly out of pitch and time, then underlay it with shuffly mouse sctrachings recorded from the attic. but again this would be shite, and probably not very techno. Anyone can be different, but can they be different and stay within the boundaries of taste and decency?
I just dont see how my pea like brain will ever get around this so i just think sod it, ill just do what i enjoy and evolve with my tastes.
one more point... before say 20 ish years ago people made thier music with just one sound (that being the piano, guitar etc). so for people to do somthing different they just had to cross/change instruments. Thanks to our samplers etc we have beeen able to use any sound we please for the last few years, the amount of new routes we can explore sounds wise has dwindled to nearly nothing, so we must experiment with beats, but we've used every hit in the world, and then we are stuck to this 4/4 signature because of the dancin' and the mixin' etc.
I know a lot of people who like certain tracks just because they are 'different' (and therefore probably a tad 'cool'), whereas i just cant do it, i only like what my ears tell me they are enjoying, granted i can apreciate technical genius and great production, but i cant enjoy it as a noise to let myself go to. except of course the 'brown noise' hehe :)
It just baffles me anyway, a bit like when i try to think about the universe never ending.
Except more baffling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimfish
whoops, i meant to press edit and fix my shoddy typing :roll:
Mark! i think all detroit techno pioneers in the history at the moment we got new fresh people who replace them long time ago and thay do the job much better then detroit gang.
mauro picotto
dave the drummer
chris liberator
joy kitikonti
carl cox
dave clarke
mark e.g.
glen wilson
green velvet
thomas chrome
e.t.c.
i think those people are engine of techno!
I 100% agree with you, andre.
i can't stand that old detroit sentimentality either. makes me puke.
p.dsp
Quote:
Originally Posted by ANDROID
hmmm.... i love detroit and the place it has in history.
guys - we wouldn't be here now if it wasn't for juan atkins/derrick may/kevin sauderson. think about it. to be honest i wouldn't have the passion for this music if i hadn't been blown away by early transmat stuff. but that's just me. nevertheless you HAVE to have respect for the early techno guys, whether you like it or not.
RE: the rest of this thread.
I really was not talking about Richie Hawtin etc. I meant the FUTURE. Hawtin is a previous pioneer. But who is the FUTURE?????
Si Begg is doing a damn good job at doing something different.
So is Jerome - but surely he needs to make more of a mark as a producer.
ANDROID - in the list you've given I see people who have created their own sound but I don't see people who are doing something massively different.... YET. Sure they have their own thing... But I'm talking here about major changes. If anyone is going to change techno I believe your list is a good starting point. Now lets see where these names go/take us. Time will give us the answer to my topic.
But at the moment who is truely breaking the mould??????????
Michael Forshaw.. That guy is definatly breaking the mould.. total crazy shit...
Also stuff to check:
DJ Bezz
DJ Mahatma
Both part of Remus's crew, these guys record for Nerven, played a few gigs with them in Germany, on top of the good tunes, really nice guys...
Also:
DIN-ST
I think over the past few years the leaps and bounds forward have been in production rather than ideas. I think the huge amount of plug ins etc have lead to the impotance of it sounding fat rather than being original. The quality of sound/production we have now on techno releases is phenominal, and i think DAVE's Hydraulix is leading the pack here and also one of the labels at the moment that's doing something new and original to me. i also think that there are some old and new labels that still excite me, new tracks that i'm mad about, with good ideas that get me going.
It seems some producers are still trying to catch up with technology, spending their time making sure they have the right plug in to make their kick drum sound fat that there is no time to spend on ideas.
I think this is the same for all 4x4 dance music, I definetly find it hard to write a trance melody now without it sounding like something which has done before. It seems like im waiting for something big to come and sweep me off my feet, like a new genre which i love as much as the current ones....Quote:
Originally Posted by davethedrummer
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARK EG
i'd like to think Miro and I are... atleast we're trying to.
Rewinding a little bit...
Sample vs midi...
If u use presets isn't that almost the same as using a legal sample?
But what if u create all sounds from scratch and still your music is "crap"?
....
My view on this discution is all goes depending on how original and personal it sounds...
As 2 the rest it is very dificult 2 look outside the box...
I definatly think it is more important that people have they're own personal toch/ character reflected in they're music, that's the way fw!!
I find it "almost2 impossible 4 some1 2 just come out with something massively diferent... even hem it is days 'till some1 uses it and apropriates it.... not cool??? depends... in fact we all do it 2 a degree but it all boils down 2 how much u throw in aswell...
One name that sometimes comes 2 mind is Akuffen... but now u have 10000000000 copycats!!
Wouldn't we really discart the guy who comes up with the NEW sound b4 it got somehow more normal!!
Nothing comes out of the blue just like that... we may b 2 close 2 observe but we may all b part of it already...
PS - 99% is recreation, we inovate but renovating thru such different methods, processes results etc... that we end up with something new!!
Z
Ps2 - Looking 4 the newest thing can sometimes get ya lost!! I go with Jim.. do what u like a stay true 2 it ... there isn't just 1 universal sound
yeah sorry android don't slag detroit off mate i was listening to "clear" in the car yeterday still sounds fresh as a daisy also i am sad to say that your list was very complimentary but no-one on it was a real "innovator".
as for the future well a very interesting point came up about live music earlier and that's kind of got my imagination going .
does anyone remembr eskimos in egypt well that's an example of how NOT to do it.
playing your guitar over a rubbish techno backing tape!!!!!
but can anyone tell me of really groundbreakin live techn acts???
i heard that technasia are really good but i get tha feeling that it's just 2 guys with computers and i saw orbital last year at glastonbury which ripped my head off!
maybe some complete human / computer interaction like final scratch but with instruments and people jamming........
hmmm i wonder?
the Advent live is a bit of a one man kickdown to say the least! (although it is just Cisco moving behind a laptop and some drum machines- albeit in a very funky way) and some of his stuff (esp the newer singles) sound quite fresh to me.
Cari Lekebusch I still consider to be a pioneer, has a very trippy feel to his groove. Same with Chris McCormack- surely some of his output has to be considered innovative.
my gosh doesn't seem like people read what the thread is actually about.
Seriously people, Michael Forshaw LIVE, I know he might not be quite straight down the line for some of you guys, but he's putting a lot of the humor and party vibe back into it, along with having a real fresh electro techno sound... When he plays, he's not just there in front of his machines, he's full on hands in the air, screaming into a microphone, telling everyone to "Get up and move your arse" in a pitchshifted camp lancashire voice, and really getting the crowd hyped.... Kinda like Green Velvet meets the Royle Family
Quote:
Oh yeah, you're listenin' to my beat now,
I want everybody around the edge of the dancefloor
To get on your mother****in feet
Put your drinks down
And walk toward the dancefloor
And start moving
That's what you ****in' paid for
Dance mother****er!
Michael Forshaw - Live PA 2002
that does sound good actually
any links to his sets???
Mark E.G. and Dave the Drummer techno music has been adjasted to the date already,its like a car making,remmember cars 100 years ago?thay didnt have air conditioners and navigation system,thay do now but thay still make same job as 100 years ago,car get me around from A to B :idea:
So its the same with techno music,i don't think there will be another Jeff milles or Derrick May. :roll:
Hello Adverse- the thread got moved by Mr E.G. and my reply was in relation to Henry's live techno idea/question, as well as innovators who have pushed it forward. Thanks for being bored enough to point out such an anal detail- let's get out more often instead of just living up to your death metal name mate
'adverse- opposed, hostile,(an opinion; to our interests); placed opposite.'
Wow scary!!!
ha ha ha ha ha. that was great.
thread got moved?????????
well unless i came down in the middle of the night in my underpants and did it whilst i was asleep, i definitely didn't move a thing!
jesus, perhaps i did. oh my god, maybe my sleep walking problem has returned. actually, about a year ago i went sleep walking and ran a bath - only to be woken 3 hours later by the sound of chrissi shouting 'what the hell have you done to the house??!!!!?!!?'. it was totally flooded :lol:
hey hold on... perhaps you went sleep walking and put your reply into the wrong thread?
hahaha
we'll never know :wink:
anyway... back to the topic 8)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARK EG
we are.
?????????? i'd love to think that m8 :)
but it's not true. i just know - we all have a long, long way to go
ps call me! i need to speak to you b.
explain why it isn't true. i think we are the future.. and if i'm not, i'm turning my back on it. simple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARK EG
speak for yourself m8. ;)
yeah good point.
of course we are!
for the seventh time in 1 day i'm going to eat my words and do a total u turn.
those are the best days my brotha.
we've gone right round the houses here
noone wants to stake their rep on who is an innnovator!!!!!
come on !!!!!
i love the post about the death metal name hahahahahahaha
i never ever thought that my name must sound like that
now i know why no-one comes to my gigs .lol.........
oh no wait a minute .......... i'm crap .... sorry i forgot.
ANYWAY!
enough of all that
come on a list of innovators please so we can discuss this incredibly anal but interesting subject.
shit wait a minute
i think the death metal name thing was aimed at adverse
there goes my ego!