lay off the glass pipe man :lol:
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lay off the glass pipe man :lol:
http://www.addictionca.com/images/crack-user.gif
I think this is the best post to date. I am sick of guys saying they do a live pa, which is just press play on every track they have made or cut a bunch of loops and run em in Ableton. Live PA in my definition is with gear, not a lappy and a plastic controller. Everyone and their friking dog can do a live PA. Heck my live PA is phenominal. Just a bunch loops with a great reverb on my send number 1 and a randomizer on send 2! )@(&*#(*@&#.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieBall
I also think its hilarious how they consider half the groups from today hip hop. Its like pop hop more like it. If you can even compare 1 artist today that's in the mainstream to DJ Premier, EPMD, or Jeru the Damaja I would be suprised.
Just a thought.
Pauze
(Numbered a couple of main reference points because by Christ it's a lot to get through, haha)Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieBall
1. When you look at official bios of a lot of DJs, you'd be amazed how many artists make a big deal of their classical music training, as if that makes them all the more qualified to produce essentially monotempo, monorhythmic and monotonous disco music. Furthermore, the same people ALWAYS converted to electronic music when(without exception!) they heard Gary Numan, and Kraftwerk. There's an extraordinary amount of DJs with that EXACT life story. Either they're all lying(or are at the same agency), or it explains why none of them do anything that's worth mentioning. So I dunno if the fact that these guys see some sort of link with being a clasically trained cellist and techno, or that they ALL worship the same two pop music entities(I'm assuming they read the early detroit guys were into them) has anything to do with their mediocrity.
2. That's partly the fate of all musical movements, and partly the nature of the hierarchy within a scene like techno, where a DJ is the link between your product and the audience: If it's difficult for him to use, or it doesn't get an instant crowd response, then he's not likely to use it again. As a consequence, the prevalent production style in the scene ends up pandering to whatever gets the biggest and most immediate feedback from the people dancing, as it's the easiest(and most flawed) measure of quality.
3. Again it's partly the way with musical history, although it's amazing that even with all this immediate access to information on the net, that people today seem to know less about music than they did maybe 20/30/40 years ago. The Beatles, the biggest pop band in the world in their day, were pretty into avant garde and various bits of asian music and whatnot, to the point where they applied some of the ideas from there into their own pop music. Pick a random 'experimental dark hard techno(lol)' producer of today and they probably couldn't tell you The Beatles' first names.
As for the rest of it, I've already been working on keeping any actual discussions about techno off this forum lately. No offence to anyone here and I'll sound like a "pretentious chin stroking wanker" for saying it, but I don't see enough discussion here. It's almost as if people think that to discuss and disagree with someone is arguing, arguing is fighting, therefore discussion is some kind of violent behaviour. And that to me is part of the problem Jamie's talking about as well: the unwillingness to risk looking stupid or look like someone who just likes a fight, by saying something that's not generally accepted as gospel. Or worse, the unwillingness to risk being accused of damaging the scene. THAT is damaging the scene.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJPAUZE
You might want to rethink what qualifies as a "real live pa"...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEhMOKhflms
I obviously don't agree with using full tracks in a live pa but there's a give and take these days with hardware/software and airplanes as well as what you're able to do and what you're willing to do for each gig. And that's what Mr. Advent is doing in that video with his "cheap plastic controller" and dj mixer. but that's another kettle of fish.
i'll agree with you on your hip hop point, it's all too watered down these days. bring back the real shit.
Girl Talk, a rather mediocre performer who stands on stage with a laptop, and invites about 100 people from the crowd to dance on stage around him to make it look somewhat more interesting, sold 6000 tickets at $20/$22 a pop for a total of 2 60-90 minute performances of pirated loops. That's at least $120,000 through the door alone on one weekend. Expect it to stay dull for awhile. ;)
I remember as a kid talking to someone on napster, they were all 'yeah Girl Talk is a true Dada artist, you know Kid 606's Straight Outta Compton remix? Girl Talk cut that up and re-assembled it back into the original, have a listen'Quote:
Originally Posted by tocsin
'but.....almost everything Kid 606 did to that song is physically impossible to undo, what you have here, is NWA's Straight Outta Compton, with a wind-up merchant's name on it.'
'no no no no, it's it's it's it's it's....Dada! Girl Talk is genius!'
'No....do I have to sit and explain the concept of sound to you?'
And so it went on. That's the first time i've heard the name Girl Talk since then, haha.
Regardless of the tools used, there will always be musicians making and playing good music, and there will always be those there purely in the pursuit of fame and popularity, regardless of the consequences or methods.
One can not blame the tools. I`ve taught countless people to mix with vinyl, it`s a very very simple motor skill to master.
And I`ve helped a lot of people get technically adept on the decks, this didn`t make them good or original DJ`s.
Ableton, Akai MPC2000, or 20 keybaords all running from a sequencer, all can be utilised to their fullest or least extent.
The man maketh the art, with the tool he maketh the mark.
haha , i like your boldness, jamie. Frustrated? what can you do except sit down piss all over what shit there is,, show folk what its worth.
Is it importent what format the music is on if it comes from your heart? Expression is a big thing for me personally in live performance on any format physically as well as emotionally.
technical bla bla bla. i don't particaurly like watching people play guitar but every time i watch jimmy hendrix i get shivvers down my spine. I don't have anything that effects me like that these days but i'm sure sooner or later someone's gonna come along and totally tear these new-wave programs up and melt your brain and it'll be when you least expect it!
Unfortunately, being in the NYC area, the "hipster" scene is the dominant one, and it's quite lucrative if you get the buzz about you. "Artists" like Girl Talk fit right in. It's incredibly simple to do with the tools that a number of us have used so I'm just not expecting techno to go anywhere in my vicinity. It's very much LCD now. At the same time, it's going to allow for people doing something more complex and a bit different to bubble to the top again as this shit becomes the norm and eventually gets boring for the same scene that's lapping it up now. But, yeah, Girl Talk being Dada is a ****ing joke. So was Too Many DJs then. Negativland gets no love.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smear
i look forward to yer set 2moro nite jamie :wink:
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/4633/back1yr1.png
:D
if you are going to use ableton live at least try to keep the mixes moving and stay mixing THE WHOLE time or as much as possible. nothing worse than seeing somebody do a little 3 second mix and then bop around for the next 3minutes and then do another quick edit and have another wank while the song plays...
That's crap, as is the post you've quoted.Quote:
Originally Posted by DJPAUZE
I've done live PAs in just about every format you can imagine, including filling the stage with 909, 303, 101, 202 etc. and a live PA is basically a live PA whatever way the artist performs it.
What's the difference between making up a live set from loops on ableton and making one from loops on an Akai S1000?
As for folks beefing about how people put their sets together and what they use, maybe try listening to the music instead of watching the DJ.
If it sounds good, it is good.
ableton sets might be dull if they're badly done
Live sets are not
Always thought james ruskin and dave the drummer did excellent hybrids - best of both worlds stuff. Same goes for BMB.
You need to start looking at more IDM artists like tim exile to see someone making proper use of "in the box" technology.
There might be more of a perfomance angle watching someone frantically run around stage tweaking his army of machines, but if it sounds the same as someone using a laptop and a controller you're not really losing much. Maybe the visual impact of someone running around on stage fiddling. Always thought that was pretty uninspiring anyway. Hardly competes with a band for performance...
I propose a new rule
All livesets should be accompanied by a bez type shaking maracas.
yeah man
damn!
dirty linen alert!
Someone delete this shit.
its been noted in mods forum, just waiting for slav or dan to come online.
i know, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Siege
http://www.gatewaytosedona.com/image...bags3_418w.jpg
Don't delete - first time I've been on in ages and I've got some true LOLZ !
edit : DAMN, I'm TOO LATE :-s
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bioE_cQNKi0
The noise shin makes at around the 2 minutes 10 mark - PRICELESS
I used to be pretty crusty re: vinyl vs. CD vs. whatever, but the bottom line is that I just want a set to make me dance. I don't give a shit if it's all gear (a la Mux's old rig) or a laptop set, but i do care if it motivates me in that dark corner and makes me move.
Technical wankery is good for turntablists and can't really be replaced by laptop rigs. But I have rarely seen a Techno/Trance/Breaks DJ use multiple decks to any great effect. It's usually a case of showing off, which I guess contributes to the vibe that something special is happening. But it can all be overdone - I remember all too well when mixers w/ effects came on the market and sets would get lost in this clingclongwaaaahswooshthumbshrang of delay and whatnot. It just made me sit down and get sleepy.
If you're a DJ and billed as as such, then what I expect is:
-No Trainwrecking (solved if you understand Ableton)
-Good EQing (not solved by Ableton)
-Good track selection (not solved by Ableton)
-Good sequencing (not solved by Ableton)
-Tasteful tricks (not solved by Ableton)
-An overall ability to let the music dictate mixes and progression (not solved by Ableton)
As you can see, only a small part of DJing is "solved" by using Ableton and the like. The rest still comes with either being naturally gifted or having lots of practice. Now, to people who are already satisfying the above list, there is still infinite room for expansion using something like Live. For someone on 2 decks, where do you go from there? Not every style of music benefits from the scratch.
If you're billed as a Live PA, all that means is that you are appearing in person to perform your own music. I have seen some huge acts over the years, using all sorts of hardware, and many did very little live. They would mostly play back a set and then add one live instrument on top and maybe live EQing.
The bigger problem is that taste and standards have eroded IMO. People don't really give a shit if music is skillfully made any longer, and acts like Deadmau5 get huge gigs playing 50% filler crap, largely because they do the LCD thing of wearing a costume. Likewise, I don't think there are very high standards for DJs. If promoters and punters don't hold acts to a high standard, there's nothing to be done. The natural tendency of humans is to reach for the low-hanging fruit, which means the simplest way to perform in front of a crowd and be called a "DJ' or "Live PA".
Shit, you can produce tracks on your iPhone now! And anyone who knows little of electronic music will consider that iPhone track to be the equal of a classic track from years gone by.
I think the whole model of what it means to be an artist is changing and it's the same situation as ever - Some people will choose to cry about it and do nothing while others will exploit the new technology and benefit.