Not at all, there's a massive difference between influence and copying, what you are talking about is copying not influence.
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Not at all, there's a massive difference between influence and copying, what you are talking about is copying not influence.
im not mate seriously, i know the difference between influence and copying and i dont need it explaining
i was simply asking how people have dealt with the time when they've realised, if its happened that is, that they are letting their passion for other peoples work slip into their own SUBCONCIOUSLY
huge, huge difference to people sitting down and actually going "right, im going to do a blatent Surgeon-esque ep" or whatever
with the greatest respect i have for you mate, which i do, i'd rather people where posting in this thread if they are going to give opinions and not just tell me what im posting isnt what i mean thanks
I know very well what you are saying, it's just that you don't seem to understand your own question. Call it what you want but copying fits a lot better than influence because at the end of the day that's actually what you are doing and even in the eyes of the law, it wouldn't be called "influence" - would it?
Or would you rather me just agree with you?
like i said before, there is a thin line between influence and copying. but there is a line non the less. and Mr.withoutaface acknowleged that line and posed the question.
Very much so, but my arguement is that influence is, indeed, the wrong word to use in this case because that's not really what it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyBlack
ok, thats cool. but if influence is not the right word to use, what is?
mate seriously, come on, im a cocky bastard and even i wouldnt tell someone else they dont understand their own question. And this isnt about me at this present time with what im up to, i have my own mind musically and i know where im going and what i want out of my music
i totally get what u mean, but im not talking about that whatsoever.
I am asking people if they have had that moment when they've been in their studios working on tracks, presumably quite happily and content, when they've suddently realised what they are doing sounds suspiciously like one of their fave artists or particular records, and where do you go from there? Whats the next step?
I can admit this has happened to me when i started out, there's no shame whatsoever in it, everyone needs influence in practically everything they do unless they are someone genuinely original and groundbreaking. I remember a few times when ive been working on stuff and half a track throught its dawned on me that it is just toooooo similiar to a certain artist or record, and this, for me, was the point when i'd have to put my own personal ego and ambition to the side and rethink what i was doing. Like i say, no shame in this at all, because, again for me, it stems from a complete passion for certain artists music and what it has done for me and what it means to me
im not asking "how many of you sit down and actively copy your fave artists, and why, and how, and what do you do from there?"
i totally get your point and even agree to the extent that yes, it is technically copying, but the point of realisation wasnt reached through a concious effort to sound like something or someone else, but was merely your passion for certain music coming through TOOOO much, subconciously, and was only apparent at a point when several hours had been, effectively, wasted creating the music up to that point
Crime made a great point which backs it up entirely about his friend who refuses to listen to any other techno except his own output, and, in Mark's view certainly, creates some of the most original stuff he's heard, which to me summarises everything i mean
im not taking pot shots at anyone or anything like that, im simply asking the question can too much influence be a bad thing and why? What im not asking is "is copying a bad thing and why" because, quite clearly, that answer is already widely known. Or certainly should be
exactamundo mate, the line is scarily thin at times, i was merely asking who has crossed this line, without knowing it until its too lateQuote:
Originally Posted by DannyBlack
this is a great debate, and to me one of the best threads in here in a while, but i think the point that as humans, its easy to be over influenced by something or someone that you love without knowing it until its too late, in this case that being either when youve finished a track, halfway throught it, or, in alot of unfortunate cases, after youve pressed the tracks up to vinyl or released them digitally
i absolutely agree dude. but i have to stick to my origional post on this, unless you are one of the get rich quick slags (best of euphoria etc etc) and just out and out copy whats popular at the time then it isnt possible to become over influenced.
you look up to your idols, you become inspired by what they do and you develope your own sound.
Granted you do the odd remix here and there but thats more a homage to the particular artist.
yeah but its just not that easy to develop your own sound straight off the mark, everyone needs a starting point, my point being, when does the starting point become the finish line? when does a person make the transistion (boom boom) into their own sound, if at all? How have people gone about this, conciously or subconciously?Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyBlack
nevermind anyway im obviously talking out of my arse :whoops:
no, no, no sorry mate, i get you! right it was me, i missed the point. you see im only really just starting out production wise so im not sure what is the cut off point and if indeed i do have a similar sound to anyone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeswithoutaface
i do record obscure sounds and polish em up. and i know that i read an article once that aphex twin guy (cant think of his name) puts microphones in blenders- recording the strange crushing sounds, this had me intregued so thats why i record EVERYTHING that makes a sound.
but like i said im only relatively new to all this, so i dont know what the cut off point is.
eureka, that's what im saying mate! where is the point that people cut off? or have people even realised where that point is, where they break ouf of the cocoon as it were and into their own sound? or to the extreme, is anyone knowingly at that point but having trouble getting over it?Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyBlack
sounds to me your going the right way and being original, and im not being condascending here at all just because ive had a few releases incase that's how anyone is viewing this, because im learning every single day and i will be learning until the day i join the great big studio up in the sky
This is why I felt you where asking the wrong question. First of all, it human nature to copy, it's how we learn to survive. So, if something has been re-enforced through repartition (learning your times tables for example) it's hardly surprising that it crops up in every day life. I don't think we are talking about influence or copying, copying although correct in the eyes of the law would suggest there was some intent, if there is no awareness then surely it would be coincidental.
i think were on the same wavelength now, it is indeed human nature to copy, my thread basically was saying where does a person draw the line, and what have peoples personal experiences been of thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Martin Dust
i think, those that are truly original cherish thier influences and as you said, never stop learning and striving to become the best in thier chosen field.
ExactlyQuote:
Originally Posted by DannyBlack
I think people realize they are regurgitating their idols when they make tracks that purvey unoriginal ideas, meaning I heard this exact sample in " 's" track so I am going to redo it and add my own flavor. Now in any artform you need to be learned technique, and method, it is the word style that is what needs to be unique, style is what makes someone stand out above and beyond the crowd, and style as in fashion, as in graffiti, as in music, goes in cycles, but it is not always the same.
The problem I see with techno, although this may just be the general state of most music in this climate is that the mainstream and commercial (of each genre) has fully entered the audience conciousness, via the ridiculous over marketing machine and profit drive we are subjected to, and therefore people as a rule are far less willing to take risks.
this has caused musical vanilla to spread further than ever, but it`s present in product design, fashion and most of the arts really these days.
I cherish my influences, and there is nothing wrong with that at all, but at the same time try to do what I can to not sound like them.
What would be nice is a newfound rebellion. A new Punk or Industrial movement, as it were, though only in ideology, not output.
Hmm..
...well for starters, ammo for innovating music production can be in the form of samples/sounds, music listening background, what physicial machines you are using and finally how to use them.
How to get to the innovation?.....experimentation i suppose.
Where do you draw the line on copying other people's work? Same samples; same basslines or rhythm patterns? Its a very personal question as everyone has their standards are vastly different.
If copying happens subconciously and you won't give up listening to your fav artists. then an artist must conciously look at how to make there music individual.
I think thats why drugs have a big part to play in triggering music creation, 'cos then your imagination isn't really limited to what your listeing to and you think outside the box.
without pointing out the obvious mate, that's what my thread is asking in the first place essentially, but im not talking about actively copying someones work, far from it. Im talking about what happens when a passion for something clouds rational judgement, thinking and a persons output. In this case the passion is for music, and a persons particular favourite artist, style, sound etc etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by clubsynthetic
i should sincerely hope that no one conciously makes an effort to copy anyone, regardless of their standards. Copying is copying is copying, regardless of the the degree to which the copying runs into.
and its got nothing to do with drugs at all to be fair, i dont see a role that drugs can play in production on any level. Even something like getting stoned in the studio can impede progress and rational thinking, and 4 hours later your still sitting there stoned with the same loop playing. That's not innovation to me