track structure and "dj tools"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by massplanck

Double the frequency of any note and you end up with the same note an octave higher.

Mathematical perfection. This was true before we invented maths. It just is. Maths is our way of explaining it. You can be ****ing sure that any other sentient being out there knows what maths is.

---

I`m not saying maths is ugly.
But I prefer to think of art as coming from the soul, from the creative mind, rather than following predetermined paths.
That is what I find ugly

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MARK EG

i totally agree. less dj tools and more non-formula's.

i think the problem we have is the fact that performance has become such an issue in selling techno. records are now for dj's, not record collectors or listeners. and because techno is dj music, things have to be easy for the dj's. and the majority of dj's out there play formulated techno.

just a very recent example, i was speaking to quite a respected dj in the techno field about micheal burkat. 'oh, i don't play his stuff', he said, 'it chages on the 16, not the 32'. now i can see why this would be a problem. you're a dj on the go, haven't had time to learn the record and you're infront of 10,000 ppl and it changes slightly out of the formula that the rest of the records use. damn, you lose the flow of your set and it really does sound like you've messed up.

not the best example of innovation i know hahah but this all got me thinking. techno has got to a stage now where if you change the track on 16 instead of 32 you CANT PLAY IT?!?!?!! WTF?!?!!

let's be honest. hard techno, minimal techno, whatever techno, as long as it's for the dancefloor always ends up becoming tailor made for dj play. sure the original tracks that made us go 'wow, what is this new xxxxx techno sound' are much more unformulated than what comes after it but that's what innovation is all about - making alot of ppl go WOW to something they have never gone WOW to before. it's those tracks that make the change and the rest become bastardised formulaic copies. as long as there are DJ's and as long as there is vinyl, this willl always happen.

for me the true innovation comes from listening to cd's or albums, not 4 track EPs or dj tools. i wish more dj's would play these type of tracks out but in the end 99% of dj's won't and the 1% that does, will probably not get booked. it's the .000001% that will make real waves, but then in the end, they'll probably want an easy life so will eventually fall into the formula trap somewhere down the line.

---

Well I totally agree
And it`s one of the things that saddens me about the scene.
The music is beholden to the DJ`s, and the DJ`s just want a quick fix (not all, obviously), and eventually everyone is ground down trying to entertain the lowest denominator.
For a long time now I have wanted to try organising something that takes away the whole DJ element entirely.
An eletronic music concert, as it were.
Something that allows more time for the ear, and is less about just trying to constantly get people waving their arms in some constant junkie fix for the next high, and more about the music itself.
I dunno, I think too much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dirty_bass

Well I totally agree
And it`s one of the things that saddens me about the scene.
The music is beholden to the DJ`s, and the DJ`s just want a quick fix (not all, obviously), and eventually everyone is ground down trying to entertain the lowest denominator.
For a long time now I have wanted to try organising something that takes away the whole DJ element entirely.
An eletronic music concert, as it were.
Something that allows more time for the ear, and is less about just trying to constantly get people waving their arms in some constant junkie fix for the next high, and more about the music itself.
I dunno, I think too much.

---

not the case...

you clearly dont think too much, its that other think too little. commercialism has a hard time going hand in hand with the musical arts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MARK EG

i totally agree. less dj tools and more non-formula's.

i think the problem we have is the fact that performance has become such an issue in selling techno. records are now for dj's, not record collectors or listeners. and because techno is dj music, things have to be easy for the dj's. and the majority of dj's out there play formulated techno.

just a very recent example, i was speaking to quite a respected dj in the techno field about micheal burkat. 'oh, i don't play his stuff', he said, 'it chages on the 16, not the 32'. now i can see why this would be a problem. you're a dj on the go, haven't had time to learn the record and you're infront of 10,000 ppl and it changes slightly out of the formula that the rest of the records use. damn, you lose the flow of your set and it really does sound like you've messed up.

not the best example of innovation i know hahah but this all got me thinking. techno has got to a stage now where if you change the track on 16 instead of 32 you CANT PLAY IT?!?!?!! WTF?!?!!

let's be honest. hard techno, minimal techno, whatever techno, as long as it's for the dancefloor always ends up becoming tailor made for dj play. sure the original tracks that made us go 'wow, what is this new xxxxx techno sound' are much more unformulated than what comes after it but that's what innovation is all about - making alot of ppl go WOW to something they have never gone WOW to before. it's those tracks that make the change and the rest become bastardised formulaic copies. as long as there are DJ's and as long as there is vinyl, this willl always happen.

for me the true innovation comes from listening to cd's or albums, not 4 track EPs or dj tools. i wish more dj's would play these type of tracks out but in the end 99% of dj's won't and the 1% that does, will probably not get booked. it's the .000001% that will make real waves, but then in the end, they'll probably want an easy life so will eventually fall into the formula trap somewhere down the line.

---

Third time I have heard that same comment about a Burkat track, I've also heard the same for Carl Max tunes as well.

Either way if you can't mix enough to play a track you would normally want to play, maybe you are not creative enough....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dirty_bass

Well I totally agree
And it`s one of the things that saddens me about the scene.
The music is beholden to the DJ`s, and the DJ`s just want a quick fix (not all, obviously), and eventually everyone is ground down trying to entertain the lowest denominator.
For a long time now I have wanted to try organising something that takes away the whole DJ element entirely.
An eletronic music concert, as it were.
Something that allows more time for the ear, and is less about just trying to constantly get people waving their arms in some constant junkie fix for the next high, and more about the music itself.
I dunno, I think too much.

---

I concur...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MARK EG

i think the problem we have is the fact that performance has become such an issue in selling techno. records are now for dj's, not record collectors or listeners. and because techno is dj music, things have to be easy for the dj's. and the majority of dj's out there play formulated techno.

---

You see that's my problem, I am more of a record collector who happens to like techno. I have had a much harder time finding records that aren't re-hashes of the same formula over and over. Finding a record that pounds my head yet is nice and complex and (god forbid) doesn't sound exactly the same after 5 minutes is a challenge and has been for a couple of years now. I like digging through a record store as much as the next guy, but when I walk in a shop and want to drop $150-$200 or so and leave with 3 or 4 records, that's a problem. It's not so much getting more specific about my tastes as time goes on, it's about a lack of diversity across the board.