stop reading my mind of mf!! ;) eheheh :P
Try adding some wacky, funky getho/ chicago vocals on top of yer drums+ synths 2 decks... :)
Z
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stop reading my mind of mf!! ;) eheheh :P
Try adding some wacky, funky getho/ chicago vocals on top of yer drums+ synths 2 decks... :)
Z
As long as you guarantee Tyree's not going to sue!Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Ze MigL
Like anything to move forward we must learn from the past and considering how formulaic techno can sound it is hard from something new to be spawnbed from it. So I would imagine that you would probably forget your dummies guide to techno and start where you want to start from, have a belief in your self and dont pander to anyone else's ideals and inputs.
BUT if you want to make money from it then thats a completely different story where trends and fashion and units of of the shops do matter.
I make techno, really weird sick fast hard distorted 160+ rhythmically exploited techno, I do so cause I want to not because I'm appealing to the greater good.
I am reading more and more on the effects music can have on the brain etc and ( harsh sounds can cause agitation and fear ) and I will start to incorporate this type of ethos into my sounds soon enough.
Also making your own sounds is a good thing. Abusing your machines, making them squeal is another good thing and knowing your equipment can harm either. Once you have these things sorted the world is your lobster
peace
Dez..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bughead
Did you really mean to say that? :lol:
because soemtimes its fun...sometimes the mystical journey starting from a minimal track all teh way up gets boaring and that style of mixing is a bit monotonous itself..sometimes its nice to just have suttin to bang to for 60 minutes...Quote:
These days I just don't understand why you want to take one hard as nails record and mix into the next hard as nails record. For instance, if you're mixing in a heavy G.Wilson track, and then mix in another track by him or a like-minded artist...you're making it even more heavy and harder during the mix. After the mix is completed you still have a heavy as **** mix. It's boring and easy to do. Lately I've been buying up a lot of old, stripped down minimal records and throwing them on 3 decks. I find that with a little work and creativity you can still make it a hard beatin' set but it's not as monotonous
grab bag mixes are nice but so are one style mixes..depends on preferences..
I don't know if I bring something constructive to this topic,. but I agree with Summer of Sam, that new blood can bring something new in techno. something which is done from different point of view and with different ideas.
But it's really hard for noname people to join the "club", U know.
I'm doing techno for 5 or 6 years, now. I've started with production, before I've touched the vinyl firtstime. I had to learn everything myself, and there was lack of knowledges at the beginning, like at everyone's start.
I had to learn everything from the first beat up to everything about production and also mastering, which isn't the best but it means better quality for my tracks, than was without it.
I don't do all this for money, but because of love to this music,, which my biggest hobby for couple of years. So i have to say, why to be paid for something u like, and u r doing because of good feeling. I don't need money for it, my satisfaction is to do something comparable to your stuffs guys, because your production references are like in my dreams :o)
sharing kowledges is great idea. but, practicaly how to do that. Thanks to god, to MarkEG indeed, too :clap: , for this forum which a great place to learn something new to everyone who's member here., but any other ideas, of sharing the ideas and thought in music?
I don't know if I can bring something new, it has to tell someone else, but I'm trying to prefer, just things I like, and things how I want to be done in my tracks.
Stop wasting this place.
But my dream is that someone give me an opportuinity and say, come on, this your chance, show us what's inside you... That's all.....
sorry for my English :twisted:
I've never understood this neither, maybe it's BECAUSE it's easy to mix this stuff that it's so popular. Why not mix up a whole load of different stuff, if anyone actually bothered to look and took their blinkers outside of loop hell, and stopped worring about whether they would have the ability to "Mix it smoothly" then maybe things would be more diverse. The fact every kiddy wants to be a dj means all the loop records sell loads as it's so easy to sound like a "Good DJ'" (If your benchmark of good is being able to beatmatch perfectly), so it's the hard loop stuff that gets perpetuated, the distributors become less interested in more varied stuff, and just go for stocking and putting out what's selling.. I mean c'mon people, start thinking out of the box, be brave and try something out you'd never have thought you would like, the world doesn't end at SUF, Cluster, and Hydraulix (No disrespect to those labels BTW).. I'm currently listening to the new Richard Bartz album on Gigolo, Something I would never have considered listening to at all (Was lucky to get a promo I suppose!) and I'm not into most of it, but I've found a gem of a track for playing out, and I would never have found it if I hadn't have listened to it.. A good DJ should be able to play in a variety of circumstances, not just at 3am when it's totally 'avin it, and record sales dictate what the distributors are going to take on, and what they're going to drop, so the future really is it the record buying public's hands.. If you support interesting varied stuff, you'll get more of it, if you support more of the same, it's going to get more and more boring and formulated..Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin Zahn
It's all got a bit blanded out.. if you love the nutz shit, you want to be checking out Noodles 6 for a complete gem by frankie bones, or even just go for playing the old stuff.. I'd say 75% of the records I play out are pre 2000, just as I feel they're BETTER than a lot of stuff that's coming out now.. Sometimes you have to look back to move forward...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin Zahn
That's the DJ thing covered, as for production, you don't think I'd give my secrets away that easily did you?
;)
Just keep buying the Crime records if you want to hear something that's moving things on......
i play style wilson tracks and others but only as part os a set of about 4 or 5 tracks then i change the style and move on. I think they are more effective as part of a mini set with in a set if you see what i mean. :lol:
i know this debate has been more about productions......
but i recon the one thing that techno is lacking is really good djs....the techno djs are doing very little to push the dj art form forward when compared to what get done in hiphop.
thers not one so called "top" dj in techno that makes me stand back like woooooaaaaaaaaawwwwww..... its same old beatmatching over and over...
and any that i have seen skracth etc are lame as we say(in hiphop) "TOY" cuts.
maybe a bit of variety in the labels my help a bit instead of sticking 2 1 particular genre of techno? just a thought.
BOOMQuote:
Originally Posted by crime
Easy to mix, easy to make, easy to dance to, easy to understand. No challenges, nothing to question, nothing to wonder at. Young blood is all well and good, but when the up and comings are merely seeking to buy an express ticket to tech-notoriety who's gonna bother working "outside the box"? The fruity loops have been sitting in the bowl for too long. Going round and round, chasing their own tails. If all you need to do to be as good as your musical heroes is get yourself some decks and 15 identical sounding records...well, let's all do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by crime
Techno is of course moving on, it always does. What we're talking about here is the stuff that has been left behind, has fallen victim to stagnation due to a combination of lack of imagination and the acquired need to sustain a status. It's suffering from the top to the bottom. Eventually the only way to make the music sound different will be to take all-but-suicidal levels of hallucinogenic drugs.
Where to go from here? Go backwards to go forwards? Remember what it is we miss from when we fell in love with techno? For many people that's not long enough ago to be any different to the bang bang bang we're discussing. So who's responsible? Nobody can keep at it forever, either it has to move on or it will die...the kids will get bored and move on...perhaps the ranks will be refreshed at the younger end but you can't flog a dead horse for too long before it falls to pieces.
Imagination. Can you imagine another 100,000 hard techno tracks constructed out of 2 beat percussive loops? Frighteningly, I can.
I wish I had a solution, but I'm not a huge thinker...if it were me standing on the top of the narrow pole that is "hard/club techno" as defined by this forum, or attempting to climb it's slippery heights...I'd think about jumping off and going to see what else was around...cos when you get up there it's both crowded and pretty unstimulating. As has been written already...influences need to be brought in. Points of reference, things that pique peoples' imaginations and send them off on a journey of discovery. People need to open their minds a little, stop calling other people purists and take a look inside and work out if it ain't you who's the purist, suffering from tunnel vision.
Have a read of this here: http://www.blackoutaudio.co.uk/phpBB...ic.php?t=13980 and see if you can't apply the same level of immersion to the creation and appreciation of hard techno music.
For me its quite simple - techno needs to be less boring. Far too often I go to a night and find myself bored by far to much of it. Producers need to make records that are something other than a 7 minute long loop with a few fills in it, and DJ's need to find these tunes that are not 7 minute loops and play them. This whole idea of "DJ Tools" amuses me - its a total cop out if you ask me. It just says to me that the producer either couldent be bothered or wasn't able to turn what is just a very simple loop into a complete track with a bit of feeling. And then mediocre DJ's play them, thinking perhaps that it is infact a complete track and its just "minimal", and on the dancefloor we have to listen to 4 or 5 minutes of the same shit, followed closely by a track that sounds exactly the same. It would be cool if maybe just the occasional track like this is dropped, or if you drop one after the other but bringing in the next one every 30 seconds.
I have no idea what direction is the right way, but I am pretty sure of what the wrong way is, so I suppose anything other than that is improvement.
Variety is the spice of life!!!!!!
I think the question was "What would YOU do for techno"
Not what each individual thinks is wrong, the subject will go over in circles when the people from opposing sides start to debate. I think the question was more how to save the genre, not shoot aces at the mutant children of it. :rambo:
Right...
One note : The genre doesn't need saving .. techno keeps reinventing itself, it's is a mutant taking all sorts of shapes and constantly mutating, ... even from "bad" will come something good... I believe this is the way forward doing what u damn' well feel like even if others don't call it techno or thing it's a betrayal bla bla.. don't b afraid 2 go with yer thoughs and ideias... Be yerself Musically... at the end of the day we should b here bcause we luv it not 4 the sake of techno, underground, pop what ever!! :)
Z
See that's what I'm talking about. Right on Miguelito!Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Ze MigL
Ok, what I was saying was on the angle of the majority of stuff that's getting pushed, week in week out, out of the distributors, I hear the same thing, and I was saying it very much on a "Records" angle...Quote:
Originally Posted by SummerOfSam
as far as what would I do to push things forward.. I don't feel I need to explain that here, I can do more, just by producing and releasing records...
All I'm saying is there's a lot of people moaning how nothing changes, when the situation really is in the record buyers hands, i.e. stop buying the records you find boring (Don't feel that you HAVE to buy something just because you listened to it), and support the stuff you find fresh, and failing that, instead of getting into long winded debate about it, why not produce some stuff that IS groundbreaking, put your heart and soul into it, and get it out there... it's as simple as that ;)
And surely you have to find out what is "Wrong" in order to have some sort of progression, as appose to saying "Everything is OK". Otherwise there would be NO progression... I'm very rarely 100% satisfied with everything I do, and this is what inspires me personally to try and progress...
this has made very interesting reading indeed.
techno does NOT need saving in my book and that wasn't the reason why i asked the question. i love the 2 bar loopy stuff and i love the innovative stuff. as long as it's not formulated manufactured crap at least it's all sort of staying within the 'general' techno genre. the beauty of techno and one of it's strongest plus points is that ppl can get on board through the different strains and then they find out a whole lot more. :clap:
anyway. rant over hehehe. what also makes techno so good is that it is constantly going forward. i'm adamant about this. and that's why this is a very important question. it's not about getting rid of other forms of techno, it's not about doing it because you feel you have to it's about doing it because you want to. because that's what is so interesting about this music over the last 20 years. at one time it was a simple case of saying 'wow i've never heard that 'sound' before' but now it's so much more than that. it's like you want to say 'wow i've never heard that 'style' of techno before'.
so what is that 'style'? what r you looking for in that 'style'? some of you have explained this well but i can't help some of you are just saying 'bah humbug there's so much crap out there and that is what needs to stop'. no it doesn't. it's an important part of the picture. you just have to be one step ahead ;) what is your step ahead? ????
i know what mine is. but i have different views on techno that i want to 'listen' to and techno i want to dance to. for listening i want 0 formulas. i want something that crosses the realms of autechre with dark dark techno. for the dancefloor i want something that crosses dark techno with the hard stuff but with the energy and less of the reverbed sounds that so much dark techno is using. it's hard to describe but it's the way chrissi and i want to go with our sound. but it's tough and takes alot of dedication to do something different. read that autechre interview and you'll see what level you have to be on to break formulas.
but is this really the future or am i kidding myself? fernando has a nice point about melody. but these days you put melody on techno and it becomes tech-trance. mind you fern, you are making some lovely techno at the mo that is really different.
let's lay off the slagging about crap techno and really try to home in on what is going to make good innovative techno music eh?!?!!!!! ;)
Firstly, I've got nothing against people loving what they're into, if you're into a particular sound and it really does it for you, whether it be hard loops, London acid stuff, the dark industrial regis/downward sound, or wonk, electro, detroit, more housey sounding stuff whatever, if you're into it, you're into it, and fairplay to that, one man's pleasure is another man's poison, mutual respect and all that..
But let's be honest here.
I personally don't hear much innovation in a lot of techno these days, and we're never going to get back to the explosion of new stuff that we had in the early 90s.. The stuff that could be described as innovative generally falls too far outside what the majority would have in their record boxes...Then again, innovation can be viewed as quite a personal thing..
As for describing what you'd do, surely it's better just to do it, experiment, rather than speculate randomly on what would be good? surely if you can totally personify music with words, what is the point in the music? Not wanting to fall into "Millsisms" or anything, and as much as I don't neccesarily agree with the quote wholeheartedly, but I think there is at least something in what Oliver Ho once said in an interview:
The wording of it I don't really like (Maybe this is my own prejudice against these kind of "mills" kind of statements), but there is a concept in there that I can see, which is, if you can talk about it, is there any need for the music?Quote:
Music is a metaphor for a concept so abstract that you can't use words
Not wanting to detract from the good intentions of this thread at all, but it seems slightly flawed IMHO, as the best way you can state what you can do to progress the music cannot fundamentally be explained in words, it's best expressed with new innovative music.
Personally, I think to push things forward, you have to take elements that you liked from the past, and lose the elements that you don't like (Which inevitably means pointing out what you don't like, you can't have innovation and not confront this issue) and fuse it with something new and fresh, which can only come from experimentation in the studio, and having the guts to do something different that might not be accepted by a lot of people. this last point is even harder if you are an established artist who has a certain sound expected of them, and are relying on their music for their income, it becomes very risky, but to be a true innovator you have to take those risks.. Even then, it's always going to be a matter of personal opinion on whether something is really pushing things forward..
I don't think we're ever going to see the explosion of innovation in techno that we saw in the early 90s.. there will be innovation in music, but techno has become far too catagorised, that anything that really breaks the mould won't be considered to be techno, it will be something that doesn't have a name, and to have the same kind of energy and excitment would have to be a whole new movement, without prejudice or any pre-concieved ideas of what it should or shouldn't be, this is the only way that innovation can flourish, when the canvas is blank, and it's a whole new sound/scene/ thing in general.. Personally I think you're kidding yourself if you think techno is the music of the future, but that's just my opinion.. I could be completely wrong and be eating my hat within 10 years :lol:Quote:
but is this really the future or am i kidding myself?
I don't want to seem like I'm being awkward here or anything, I'm just stating the opinion I believe in...
Peace.
i second that!Quote:
Originally Posted by DROID
:twisted: