People as a whole, resist change.
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People as a whole, resist change.
EXACTLY!Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
especially the types of people who open/run clubs. they are obcessed with 'industry standards'
it is absolutly mind baffling that 99.5% of clubs have tech-1200's and nothing else.
this is because of one thing. People want it that way.
Techno exploded onto vinyl during the 80's despite the simutaneous emergency of cd.
that says only one thing- "enough people want techno on vinyl for the industry to continue"
dice it, hate it, philosophize it any way you want. the fact is. many mediums exist now, and its not stopping the flow of vinyl to its lovers.
Quote:
dirty_bass wrote:
Screw vinyl
Screw Mp3
Screw CD
Screw DVD
I`m going for holochips
It`s techno innit
psychic projection is the new way foward mate, read it in last months dj mag
Do we have all have to mediatate to recieve the projections? this could be a whole new era for clubbing :lol:
seriously though, I dont think a complete move to CD's should be made as the 16bit 44.1KHz standard quality just doesnt cut it. When the standard playback rate on CD decks is 24bit 96KHz I think we can justify laying the vinyl to rest as it wont be able to compete with that kind of quality.
why not use vinyl controllers to play back 24/96 files?
Quote:
Originally Posted by g
why wont digiheads just accept that many of us are djs because WE LOVE VINYL
all the technological progress on earth cant replace that!!!
Gil I wish we wopuld have spoke when I was sober.
I love how you think man.
Talk about a small window of opportunity. hehehehQuote:
Originally Posted by SummerOfSam
thank you :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by SummerOfSam
lol... not trying to change your mind about that. i love it too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Internal Error Records
just simply responding to mrbenn's query
or i should say.. i love it too, i'm just happy not to carry it around :twisted:
have you seen SOS's arms? that doesnt happen carrying around an Ipod.Quote:
Originally Posted by g
haha.. can't say that i have.
haha.. can't say that i have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbenn
your totalyy wrong mate there was a very educated post about this on this thread, read it.
most clubs I go to now have a nice set of denons or poineer decks in them now
Quote:
Originally Posted by Internal Error Records
haha, nice one :lol:
No he got those arms from carrying DJ`s with bad attitudes all the way to coney island so he could throw the body into the sea. :lol:
Don`t phuck with buck, cos buck will phuck you up.
here is a solution to everyones problems:
Vinyl lovers: stick to vinyl and don't bitch about shit. Just get over it and keep using vinyl cus 1200's won't be disapearing any time soon. You have nothing to worry about.
Digital doods: Stop bagging vinyl. Just do your thing and don't get involved in the vinyl purist bitchness. There's nothing to prove. Let the music do the talking.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by Komplex
I second that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Internal Error Records
I love both.
:clap: :clap: :clap: cool boys, im sick of all this vinyl bitchin, it makes me sad! :cry:Quote:
Originally Posted by Internal Error Records
aye......ill be sticking with the decks for now, and i await to see folks doing good stuff with cds. i personally cant see no better use for them apart from maybe a slightly better sound quality(which i dont hear much diff between cd and vynil anyway), one day they may even get the cds to play in time with each other without having to beatmatch, great fun eh, not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Komplex
but they cant full represent a true vynil feel, not yet anyway, i think all they have is backward/forward motion sensor, which real vynil has much more (its got vibrations effects whcih are important for skratching-which aint old btw, its still very much evolving whether you understand it or not)
i think cds will eventually take the fun outta playing
saying that i think i will end up getting one of the cd decks once i have written some of my own tunes, so i can play em out.
will be adding it to the 2 1210's tho. 2 decks plus 1 cd, think that would be good.
I think someone needs to invent a viable multitrack medium. Lets say an 8 track on a cd, so you could take different parts of of the mix live. I think that could be quite intresting. As for cds that beatmatch themselves - its already available, and im all for it. Why should you have to beat match? It doesnt make the music any better, all it does is distract your attention away from being creative. Since most people can beat match pretty decently with a bit of practice, i hope we see an end to this anoyance as soon as posible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQ
why should you have to maunually do anything?
why even bother taking yer shot off the t in golf, why not just stick the ball in the whole.
why have goalkeepers in footy, in fact why not just do away from the whole 2 teams and just have someone kick a ball over an empty goal all the time.
or get racing cars on tracks so you dont need drivers..
its all about the sport/art/whatever..........
im sure someone could write a script that would write a tune for you using random samples and random patterns but would that be any good.
what about using a cheat on a computa game so you can complete the level no sweat.....fun time ahead for som
Why should we have to care about something that doesnt effect the content of the music you are playing?? Just to make thongs hard for yourself? Just to look cool infront of your mates? To be "better" than someone at something??Quote:
Originally Posted by gumpy green
Id rather concentrate on making the mix different, being able to add in as many different sources as i can to make the music different and original. I like to hear new music. I like to hear new music changed "live", but most people seam to think that this just means pulling off a perfect mix.
Is beatmatching that hard really? No, all it does is distracts from the actual music. Yes, it can be fun, but to be honest, im sick of it. It hinders me in producing something new and original.
Dont get me wrong, i love decks. But i use them for a different purpose. I am a turntablist. I have perfomed in the DMC championships. That shit is hard to learn, and that is using the deck as a musical instrument. Beat matching 2 techno records is not. Its not hard, its not clever, and its certainly not original.
I read an interview with Aphex Twin once where he pretty much claimed he had done this, and he's been one of the most consistantly inventive and prolific electronic artists of all time. But yeah, you're right... what's the point eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by gumpy green
Anyway, if you want to be a vinyl purist, and spend oodles of time perfecting the beatmatch then go ahead, who is anyone else to stand in your way? I'm sure everyone will stroke their chin, and applaud the accuracy with which you aligned the two recordings.
I'll be over here trying to do stuff that other people haven't thought of yet.
Oh, and the music / sport analogy doesn't work on any level whatsoever.
well i can keep the beatmatch no sweat and control 2 fx units at the same time..........not very easy but thats whats the buety of it. seeing someone control all that is fairly impressive.
yer right staright forward beatmatching is easy but then again who wants to straight forward beatmacth, thats not advancing shit.
IQ- yeh as ive said beatmatching is easy and not doing much for me....thats why yav got to add shit on top of it to be considerred a good dj by me.
glad yer into turntablism , as am i, been in scotlands dmc final back in 2000 when i was into battles......lets hear some of yer stuff.
hears some o my techno-turntablism.
http://www.diversefrequencies.co.uk/...ch_example.mp3
http://www.diversefrequencies.co.uk/..._plus_cuts.mp3
http://www.diversefrequencies.co.uk/...h_fx_intro.mp3
i like the nervahammer juggley thingy.....to me thats pushing djing forward not using machines to do it......go live pa for that...IMO
what are thes new things....lets hear it then..Quote:
Originally Posted by TechMouse
and the music / sport analogy does im sorry......... i couldve used other shit apart form sport...
As and when I feel I've done something worth anyone listening to, I'm sure I'll stick it up in the Filez section. At which point your input will be very gratefully recieved. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by gumpy green
Sport works on the premise that someone is the best at something.Quote:
Originally Posted by gumpy green
You can't be "the best" at music, as it's all subjective. So, in lieu of celebrating anyone's superiority, I base my enjoyment on the diversity, creativity and "magic" (for want of a better word) involved.
So, yes, cheating at sport is stupid because you're not really achieving.
It's ok to "cheat" at music though, because there is no "winning", everyone's just enjoying the ride.
Anyway, you could argue that basic DJing is "cheating" too because the tunes have all been recorded in a studio - this is, of course, an old argument which gets on the tits of just about everyone in the electronic music scene.
The counter argument is that dance music pushes the boundaries, and there's stuff you can make in the studio that you could NEVER do live. You're saying "I'm playing records because it lets me do stuff I couldn't do otherwise". Now, where have I heard a similar statement before...?
mmmmm see yer point.....
still ill be keeping my djing live and wax and i recon ill still put on a more inovative set than most using cds will....for me one of the things i like about djing is its manul rawness.......i aint got no probs with folks going on ther seperate ways, i do actually like to see it sometimes(we got jamie ball playing for us soon using tractor to mix all his own tracks).. some may say this is cheating, i dont, fair enuf the mixin of the tracks is kiddies play as it does it for you pressinj a button but the work thats went into the tracks is ALOT(and worth a great deal in my eyes). so overall his set will be off the hook.
me personally- i may however build on my djing by adding some live boxes into the setup to do these new creative things....got a su700 that i need to get going with the dekx.....just no patterns in it yet cos im lame when it comes to production..
but when it comes to djing for me its gotta be wax and i cant see producers stoppin using it cos i recon theyd make less.....i wont change over as do most folk i know that dj.
also i think you can be better at music than someone else...
motzart was well better at music than any techno track ive ever heard....infact most o the great classical composers are on the next level...not many techno producers are.
BUT id rather listen to all you guys.....
Indeed.
Some of the best sets I've seen over the last year have been people playing with boxes / laptops, as well as CDs and also vinyl. People can do wonderful stuff with all of them, and no doubt someone will be doing something else amazing with equally improbable tools in the years to come.
Exciting innit. ;)
yup. and ther will be folk also doing new stuff with deks that cant be done on hardware. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by TechMouse
it is looking good.
When anything new comes along it is always resisted.
The internet was said to be rubbish, now look at us, and what a state the postal service is in because of email.
PC`s were poopooed as a production tool, and now loads of top studios are using serious software based set ups.
The car was resisted and now everybody drives.
Change is inevitable.
The signs are all there.
The FACT is that vinyl sales are down across the board.
Distributers are falling down quicker than a bunch of irish sailors on St Patricks day.
Each summer (always a difficult time for vinyl sales) things are getting tighter and tighter.
Yet still people would rather bury their head in the sand rather than except what is happening.
Eventually the current system will no longer be able to sustain itself.
And that means simply that a lot of artists we all love and respect will have to devote their time to something other than making techno music.
Artists need money to survive.
Techno is a progressive music. In all aspects we embrace new technology except with the medium it is transmitted on. Vinyl for gods sake?
Change will happen, and I would dearly love to wake more people up to it, so we can get together and seriously try to work out a way of pushing forward into the digital age in a way that will allow us to continue to do what we do.
At the moment everyone is fighting over a very small market for sales and distribution etc, and like a lake full of fish that is drying up, sooner or later the fish begin to eat each other to make more room.
Sentimentality and resistance will not help. I have sunk a lot of money into vinyl, and it hurts to let it go, but it has to happen.
This doesn`t mean vinyl should be thrown away. But people should realise what is inevitable and embrace it. We can have our cake and eat it, vinyl and a new format can survive together until people make the full transition.
But the fact is we need to start change.
... and the rewards will be great for the people who get in there first.Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
I play my own tunes off my laptop, but don't have a copy of tractor - I use PCDJ red, which doesent mix them automatically. But I can't be fecked to actally make all the pitch adjustments live, so I have a number of copies of each tune, each one at a certain speed, so if I want to play at 135, all my tunes are already that speed. Or 140, or 145, or whatever, just takes sorting it out ahead of time. People have given me some shit for this in the past (calling me a cheater, etc.), but I always have the same reply - seeing as I am making all the tunes myself, and I have the power to make them easy to mix (making the speeds the same, pre storing cue points, etc.) I would have to be a grade A fool not do this, as it would be making things harder for myself, for no good reason.
I can get the tunes together well quick smart, which means I have spare time, so I can get the fx going, get a third or fourth track going, or sling a bit of drum machine over the top and get ill with the beats (or have a slurp of drink and roll a fag, hehe). Personally I find this much more fun than fecking about trying to get two records in time with each other.
Another thing - I use high quality MP3's as well as wav's, and honestly cannot tell the difference between them. Maybe on some amazing headphones or in some super acoustic listening booth with £10,000 speakers, but to the average ear, as long as your mp3s are of a sufficent quality, I reckon theres no difference.
generally the people who say it`s cheating are the ones who have spent sooo much time learning to mix with vinyl, that it`s all they know and to see someone doing something new and different just narks em.
The art of mixing is not in the mechanical process of getting two pieces of petroleum product to rotate in unison, keeping the audio recording on it in beat sync. That`s something anyone can do with practiice.
The art is in the mix, the choice of tune, the EQing, the mix point, reading the crowd, taking chances with selection etc.
Who cares what process you get the result by.
Personally if the vinyl would get itself in time I would be very happy, cos it gives me more time to do the mixing.
Mobile phones are cheating.
You should travel to see the person you want to talk to and do it face to face.
but there's also art in finding the mix i think, something which ableton doesn't do cos everything can be made to be bang on before the set even starts
it's good to watch people almost lose control of a mix then bring it back
I don't know alot about ableton, but it looks well interesting, definately someting I'll be looking into soon. But I like being able to have two tracks going through two channels on a mixer so that you can EQ them properly, or drop bits out, or whatever else you might do when mixing records. Maybe abelton does this, I dont know. I would be chuffed if it did though. In the meantime, I love my PCDJ red, its so simple, yet so effective.
DB- are vinyl sales down as a whole or is it just "per item" cos i recon sales would be up as a whole from whats going on around me...
but satying that ther are far more folk releasing tracks now so if records sales as a whole were up the individual artist could still be selling less.
i dunno what its like globally but around here i think vinyl is on the up.
i wouldnt say im or others are resisting change either, if i thought cds would be good id be adding it right now to my setup but, as ive said the only thing i can see a use for them for djing is to play my own tracks or stealing folks work.
If sales were on the up distributers wouldn`t be falling down.
Actual volume of sales IS down, distributers don`t care about individual label sales as a rule, it`s the volume to them, as it`s all the same.
So yes there is more stuff, going into a shrinking market.
I`m not saying this for fun, it`s how it is.
Most record shops will say the same thing.
things maybe ok in edinborough by your perception, but edinborough is hardly gonna support the worldwide market.
anyone care to share figures with us? i seem to remember about 5-7yrs ago (head-shit-memory) sales where around 1000-2000 for an average techno release, is that about right?
you have too many zeros in there now.
I think where once a good release was between 5 and 10 thousand
you are doing very very well now days if you hit 1500
I tend to think that were not looking deep enough when talking about the recent decline in sales. For me anyways I think there’s a lot more to it than the format its sold on. Instead of blaming the format the 1st thing I would blame is the music, another thing which I feel is often overlooked is the way that it’s promoted/sold online. I don’t know about you guys but these mp3 compression rates aren’t even listenable for me and I don’t blame people for not buying records after listening to those.
I’m all for this digital thing now but I think that more needs to be done to help people purchase music. Simply changing the format isn’t enough for me.
Speaking of which, are there any good online stores which have decent mp3 previews?
i cant say ive seen any, although having said that, one local record shop has some of the worst listening stations know to man, with crap headphones, cheap decks powered by crackly amps :doh:Quote:
Originally Posted by The Divide
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
bare in mind - there are 10 times more producers than 7 years ago.
i will bet dollars to donuts the exact numbers of sales havent changed.
Overall sales have gone down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Internal Error Records
OVERALL sales, thats everything, not sales of individual sales of labels.
There aren`t really that many more labels, as loads have disapeared.
The market isn`t that overfilled except in schranze.
And no, it`s not just down to mp3
There are a few other factors. But the Ipod age is the main factor.
Wake up and smell the copy.
Sales in music overall have gone down.
People just want something for nothing.
There is also the fact that DJing simply isn`t as popular as it was.
People now realise that after a few years, they are not gonna be the next tiesto or cox, and they (the bandwagon jumpers) have moved on to some other pipe dream of fame (big brother or something equally trite)
Is there a solution?
I don`t know. I do know that the current system we all use is pretty crap.
The artists get rinsed, returns can give you false sales figures, yadayadayada
We have a method of collective communication now.
And rather than making every excuse under the sun, to deny the facts. We should be sorting it out.
Hahahahaha ****in ell man who you hanging around with? Nasty Nick? :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
Most the people I know stopped the djing because of how expensive it became, how there wasn’t much coming out of any interest and because of other life commitments like having kids, working, etc. Me thinks a lot of that’s due to growing up, stopping drugs and other social changes. I wouldnt say the passions gone tho
One thing is for sure, the club scene is definitely taking off this year so far. Im hoping there will be more younger people getting into it. The usual croud is getting a bit old now.
Well not old old. Just older
ok this has got to be put to an endQuote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
quote your source
what is your source for your information?