hahah
Yeah no doubt... but music takes time to grow on people.. and if their first experience sucks ass... they will likely attribute the music to being the same... give them a reason to come back, and they'll start diggin it.
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hahah
Yeah no doubt... but music takes time to grow on people.. and if their first experience sucks ass... they will likely attribute the music to being the same... give them a reason to come back, and they'll start diggin it.
grime? still very much based around macho attitude & the bollocks that goes with it (though not exlusively) , but it seems a lot more real & down to earth than the US based stuff. the music itself sounds quite fresh to me, too...Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
I dunno about grime.
Sounds to me like old monoid stuff and rush and landstrumm.
I wouldn`t really say it`s all that fresh
Man, I really hope this isn't the case. This is def a tangent, but, it's way too early to say that it's a losing battle. Look at how far humanity has progressed by fighting oppression in just the past couple hundred years. It's not that it's a losing battle. It's that we have a long way to go before reaching a truly just and fair society. When people give up, those who would **** us and oppress others are more than happy to step in and take back what we have gained. Music has always been a great means of advancing radical or revolutionary ideas. So, hell, if that's someone's thing, there is still plenty to write about which might even move some people in your direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil G
I don't think it has anything to do with being closed-minded. Like I said, a number of my friends bought full albums of various artists after hearing the vocal tracks and bumped 'em for awhile. Just like some people are suckers for a 303, some people are suckers for good vocals. Personally, I really miss original vocals in techno. It's very cool to hear how people have implemented a human element over the machines. The more diverse your sound, the more diverse your audience which is good for longevity. Small followings die really quick especially when even the hardcore begin to lose interest. I dunno. It wouldn't surprise me if you hear more and more techno sounding stuff coming out of hip-hop. I'm just kinda surprised that the techno scene hasn't moved in the same direction outside of sampling yet for the most part. It just seems like a natural progression. That girl MIA has some pretty tech'd out production work for her stuff but it's not exactly being hyped towards the techno crowd around here.Quote:
Originally Posted by xfive
I call out for a media channel to pump techno through, is that so hard? Can I get a kilowatt or 2 to broadcast with? lol
Media people, media is what drives all this shit! Our scene is largely word of mouth, its hard getting new kids into a scene they dont know about...
Of course there is few chart success but it is still very un-mainstream.Quote:
Originally Posted by eyes without a face
Just because there is few night a week on radio one and couple of german success doesn't change the fact that 99% acts don't hit the top 40 and way of doing things in techno is pretty rebellious even though I don't care whether it is really or not(even though I like the way its against the norm things and there is so much room for creativity). Its good music end of the day and thats all that matters.
And I think electronic music is the new punk
Do elaborate...Quote:
Originally Posted by detfella
Dunno what punk you're listening to, but I don't see this to be the case in bands I see in back rooms of pubs, squats and warehouses in Leeds etc. I think that yeah, some people are getting bored, doing it for image, but I still see plenty of the old anger, bile and spite. I think people have just realised a bit that they're never gonna "get anywhere" and be noticed by the "mainstream" and are just quite happy to keep it DIY and on a small scale.Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
I agree with that I really hope it ain't the case too. I think though what some people have realised is that they ain't gonna change the world, but they can do things on a smaller level and make a diffetrence for people close to them, locally or their community.Quote:
Evil G wrote:
the only people fighting the good fight anymore are those too ignorant and uneducated to realize that it is a losing battle. for the majority of people, reality is simply too ugly and depressing to face, and the powers that be are too strong to fight, so they are giving up, turning off, and trying to get their piece of the pie before there is none left.
Man, I really hope this isn't the case. This is def a tangent, but, it's way too early to say that it's a losing battle. Look at how far humanity has progressed by fighting oppression in just the past couple hundred years. It's not that it's a losing battle. It's that we have a long way to go before reaching a truly just and fair society. When people give up, those who would **** us and oppress others are more than happy to step in and take back what we have gained. Music has always been a great means of advancing radical or revolutionary ideas. So, hell, if that's someone's thing, there is still plenty to write about which might even move some people in your direction.
I think it was dirtybass who said in an unconnected thread, humanity is wiped out as the planet will then have better custodians (or words to that effect). I don't, but I do care about the people here now.
I'm going off on a tangent now, but going back on topic, I agree that we have more to stand up and shout bollox to than for a long time. I don't think people are letting it wash overthem though. Or maybe some are, but in my mind those who are not are fighting just as hard, but maybe on a more acheivable (local? underground? whatever?) level, be that through music or other forms of rebellion.
this idea of shifting focus from global to local, and trying to make life more bareable for your crew and family, rather than giving up entirely, i like a lot, and i hope i'm wrong too. but i see way to many SUVs and big cars on the road, and it's quite shocking to see so many Americans gladly giving away their rights in the name of fighting terrorism.
i said what i did in response to the idea that there will be no more musical revolutions. i guess i didn't make that clear in the first post. of course music with lyrics will always out-sell music without lyrics, because it makes it easier to identify and remember tracks, and to buy them at a later time, than it is when one track blends smoothly into the next.
but even within genres that already use lyrics, for the most part, the lyrics don't have the weight behind them that they once did. when i was younger, we expected lyrics to *mean* something, either literally, or metaphorically, or preferably both. maybe i'm just out of touch (i really hope that actually) but it seems like the kids today are so used to empty lyrics that they don't even look for meaning there anymore, and would not recognize a truly powerful song if they heard it.
Seems to be many crushed souls in here...
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell
Someone PM me when this revolution begins. :lol:
Careful here, not to get off topic, but not ALL of us are gladly giving away any rights...There are quite a bit of grass roots movements about in the US, especially on the West Coast, that directly defy the Bush Administration. My city, Portland, is the only one in the whole country that disallows the Homeland Security department to "snoop" on our residents. Some of us choose to do things like, rip off the IRS or ride a bike as opposed to driving, since we as individuals are truly powerless over the current administration (and that is the truth no matter how optimistic you are). I'm really not trying to get off topic, but i feel that the record must be set straight for believe it or not, the Americans you may see on TV or read about, don't necessarily represent the whole...Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil G
^^^ that's good to hear.
Music cannot die or be finished. There is no end. Each generation brings something new to the table while learning from the past. Thats how it's been for centuries.
The only thing that can come to an end is your own appreciation of music itself.
i think the drugs have got old
and the new kids just dont find electronic music that great
but its still working in certain places , and it'll be around for a while longer.
but maybe there is a musical revolution going on right now and we just dont know about it................
No music ever dies.
It`s just that dance music as a whole, is no longer the big thing.
Hmmm, I`m not sure how relevant the drugs issue is.
Maybe if you were 17 and in the middle of the grime thing right now you could see it like that.. as I said before, maybe I'm just becoming older and I've just been around the block a few times, so I'm not as eager and enthusiastic as I used to be (I wish I could turn back the clock)Quote:
Originally Posted by davethedrummer
When I started this thread, it wasn't with the intention of potraying total doom on the whole thing, more just me picking up on something dirty bass said..
I don't think it's just a thing with techno but with a lot of things these days, just disposable culture...
there is some real good stuff out there, but you have to look harder through the fodder to find it...
i guess the speed at which music goes in and out of fashion is getting faster all the time, which makes sense really, it's always been that way (not just in music either). i suppose in that sense, movements don't seem as big or important & tend to splinter more quickly - no revolutions, no big shocks, but no progress? i'm not so sure...
I don't know what you mean by drugs got old. But if its the notion that techno= drugs, I disagree. I hate these kind of things you hear about Techno. I always tell people I'm into Techno because of energy. And contrary to belief drugs is not old. There is about millions E being taken in Uk and most kids in US smoke dope and listen to rap if wondering about drug connection.Quote:
Originally Posted by davethedrummer
Why do we even need music rev. ? Its lame talking about it or even contemplating the idea of it.
I think if you are looking for why Techno is unpopular here is few opinions
1.People don't know about it(Most people outside of Europe don't)
2. People only consider it club music
3. Dance music has branched out (Trance DnB house)
4. People think its too hard or simple
Electronic music is great people just have to 'get it'
This thread has nothing to do with techno being popular or unpopular..Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalTechnobastard
it's about things not having an edge....
Please learn to read ;)
They also started to get more expensive and less potent. Definitely seemed to burn a lot of people.Quote:
Originally Posted by davethedrummer
There it is. If your head is completely stuck in a music scene that already experienced what could be considered a revolution, chances are you're only going to hear about the next one after the fact.Quote:
but maybe there is a musical revolution going on right now and we just dont know about it.
:clap: Yes, the whole dubstep thing is pretty cool. Though for my money it has to become less reliant on MCing as a driving force. But I digress.Quote:
Originally Posted by crime
Anyway, come on Mark, you're hardly old and you're still pushing the envelope with the music you release. Enjoy it.
I don't know if you necessarily have to look harder than before - I think it's easy to think you shouldn't have to look so hard anymore because of the massive advances in the way media is delivered.Quote:
Originally Posted by crime
Unfortunatly you sson realise that the force pushing these things forward is large companies who have no interest in small labels (Techno or otherwise) succeeding.
They control the "media pipe", so to speak, so they choose what goes down it. Here... have another discardable, easily palatable, parent-friendly pop star. There's no way these people are ever going to want to push "good" music, because it's unpredictable.
There will always be people on the fringes who demand more, though, and these people will always find each other somehow. Which, when you think about it, is pretty much how it's always happened.
What are they pushing forward apart from their own bank balance?Quote:
Originally Posted by TechMouse
Thanks for the props anyway, and yes, there is interesting stuff, my initial point was just the fact that when the first sativae and mosquito stuff was hitting back in 95/96 there did seem to be a lot more variety around, and it did feel like a new era was dawning, it was, but these things can't go on forever.. I suppose it's the old chesnut of the easier that music is to understand, the more it's going to sell.. also when you are newer to the music it's going to seem fresher, just after 5+ years of being involved in the industry doing your thing, an you still have trouble affording to live it can get a little frustrating, but I suppose it's the price you pay for doing this thing full time...
Being in germany, berlin in particular is certainly more inspiring, the UK scene seems quite narrow in comparison, and it's great to have very talented people around to bounce ideas off and give you advice and inspiration...
it just seems that wayQuote:
Originally Posted by crime
Oh, I just mean in terms of technology.Quote:
Originally Posted by crime
e.g. iPods, mp3, HDTV, cable, satellite, take your pick out of the million or so different methods that have been developed to shovel shite into the mouths of the intellectually dubious.
MP3 was not pushed on us by the industry. Not in the slightest. Most of the MP3s you saw floating around years ago were all made with hacked (aka. stolen) derivitives of the Fraunhofer codec. When your online distribution options for supposed "quality" compression were Real Audio, MP3 was great. With a whopping 5k transfer rate on my modem if I was lucky, I could get decent sounding tracks from friends without having to sacrifice quality by going the Real Audio route. MP3 wasn't exactly scaring the crap out of, or even being discussed by, the mainstream industry at the time. It wasn't until they figured out that kids with broadband connections were now trading entire albums around the world in a matter of minutes that the mainstream got interested. They saw that Napster obviously had a marketing scheme in mind. The end result was that the industry was forced to accept MP3. They never wanted it. So, they litigate the hell out of some existing entities while they start up their own similar pay
service. MP3 became big because of techno geeks who continued to expand on ideas to make it more user accessable. That was, and still is an ongoing, revolution. You hadn't seen the music industry get so pissy since the advent of blank tapes. They found a way to deal with that by adding a surcharge to sales of blank tapes. But, in the US at least, that surcharge can't be applied to computer storage media (aka blank CD-Rs) and how do you put a surcharge on a technology that is out of your control? It's why I'm so pro-MP3 or any other compression method that makes delivery of information easy and good for the masses. It's basically our doing. It would make the industry nothing but happy to see MP3 and digital distribution completely disappear. At that point, they hold all the cards again.
i dunno. i think lyrics & vocal lines are what give the music a wider appeal. theres decent 'instrumental' stuff about too, but i can't see it pulling as big an audience as say, dizzee rascal. and i do believe a decent audience is necessary for a movement to really kick off.Quote:
Originally Posted by TechMouse
Dizzee rascal is from that scene and still producing underground records, go to hackney and turn the radio on, it's already kicking off....Quote:
Originally Posted by j_s
Do you buy records or cds at all?Quote:
Originally Posted by tocsin
I would but some crackhead hackney ****er nicked it.Quote:
Originally Posted by crime
Not nearly as much as I used to.Quote:
Originally Posted by crime
That's fair. The MCing makes it a bit more unique set against the rest of the whole broken beat electronica thing, and it certainly gives it the rude boy edge that is probably helping to keep it afloat.Quote:
Originally Posted by j_s
I really want to get down to one of those Rephlex nights at the Elektrowerkz.
I'd love to see Vex'd, particularly.
I really think that there is a lot of good music out there, bottom line is to take the time out to look for it. Yes hip hop is not what it used to be but if you look youll find some hella good underground material. Same with techno if you look youll find granted itll be maybe 2 out of 10 ratio but there are some of us really trying to break the mold, dont know about the next biggest sound but im just saying quality material is out there its about being objective about it.
Ahh I've said if, get the glasses on crime. There was a discussion going on about why Techno is unpopular (its going on right here too) so I've responded to it also it was reaction dtd's post.Quote:
Originally Posted by crime
Music revolution in 60's gave us hippies and beatles. Not good ha?
As for Dizzee yeah he is pretty revolution. Check the Jayz imitation of that shite tune out of Showcase. Pretty shite attempt to break the sales. The video was even worse.
Me too, over all syles of music. There is always something which stands outQuote:
Originally Posted by SummerOfSam
I also dont mind pulling out all the stuff I used to listen years ago
Music will always take me places
There is little value placed on the creative elements of music in general (in fact all arts are suffering this). It has become something that is controlled by guidelines in order to make it a reliable commmodity that can then be "farmed" on a more regular basis.
The "product" is now cruely cultivated and marketed in a way that has become the accepted norm. Artists are seen but not heard as the values and meaning of their music is filtered to become something that is politically correct and swallowed more easily by the public at large. More often than not this is done via having the artists rehash old favourites through some cheesy cover of a song that has long since passed it used by date.
So, yes music is dead coz its meaning and purpose are lost.
Funny how the authorities would now find it more comfortable to carry on with their corrupted ways having lost the voice of contention that so regularly sparked outcry against their attrocities......
As history will tell you... In every major musical changes there was a new instrument or technic that was created. For exemple, classical music was invented 'cause the piano made it's first debut.And they've explored all the ways that they could imagine with it. Even in the mathematical way of speaking( ex: a 3/4 beat , a Waltz... it's a way of saying that they were close to be at the top of their art if not with Chopin).
Is there any classical music played and composed still today?
Of coarse it was great back in the days but a new generation is there, with new problems and philosiphies... What can we do about it?
Err, yes, loads and loads.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Melodie
And yes it is played, both on the radio, and in concerts, with a greater fan base than techno, and with higher sales, better distribution, erm, need I go on?
Bang on.. this was exactly the point I was trying to make, that the artistic value is lost and it's become pure product...Quote:
Originally Posted by holotropik
The future is happening, it's just getting it's head down and honing it's sound, not blathering away on the internet about compression techniques, how to get 'signed' and whether it is 'ok' to use technique xyz.
Imho of course.
Again, bang on.....Quote:
Originally Posted by schlongfingers
There is some amazingly produced musics out there from all sorts of styles, the key is to listen to all sorts not just alot of the shitty techno out now, and put those influences into your own shit as we all know.
I hear so many pieces where Yeh the compression might be good, a full sound but the material grabs about as much of my mind as a boiled egg. Theres so much shit like that out there, but looking much further and their are beautiful musics.
Thank the lord for Plaid, Errorsmith, Geoff White, Alex Under, Maurizio, Inigo Kennedy and Gorecki, and !! Detroit Underground !! etc etc KLASHNEKOFF / Manuva
Yeah, they production over content thing had always puzzled me in techno, personally I'd rather have a more interesting tune with rough production than a boring track with good production any day..Quote:
Originally Posted by miss bass
I can understand to a certain degree how pieces should be made to their fullest potential if possible, theres nothing better , and thankfully im getting my own head down learning as much as poss to do the same. I think i am one for picking a tune with with great musical content than a piece which loops but has nice compression on the hats. Maybe thats the classical influenced side of me, just hearing those raw instruments and dynamics, (but then again synths dont always sound so phat unless produced / engineered well. Maybe comparing a soft synth to classical could be a little extreme hehe)
One thing ive learnt....
HOW HARD PRODUCTION IS.
Thats why its so amazing, and if you get producers who can engineer as well as making a well produced tune musically i.e Geoff WHite and all the others i mentioned then Hallelujah.