Techno, a new movement.

I`ve been within an artistic community in one form or another for a lot of my life, so discussion on this sort of level has always been there.
I do however understand that not everyone is into the artistic/philosopihic side of music as an artform. But it is a part of the ongoing process of creative developement.
Although nothing is more important than experimentation in this respect.

The thing about this thread is that a lot of people here haven`t really read all the posts, and have just reacted to the word experimentation, as if means hang upside down and make techno with a conductors baton stuffed up your nose.

All artists should experiment. How far you go away from the Herd in terms of what is acceptable in the parameters of Dancefloor Techno, is up to you.

But a lot can be learned from going waaaaay off into crazy experimentalism, and then applying what you learn in a more acceptable techno format.

Not everything you make needs to be released, to experiment for the sake of exploring capability and form etc, is very healthy for a musician.

Another point I maybe think, is that to only listen to, and then only produce techno, is very unhealthy.

It`s like the Rednecks living up there in the Ozarks.
"My mother is my Sister"
Look at the state of some of them.

In-Breeding stagnates and retards the system.

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

But a lot can be learned from going waaaaay off into crazy experimentalism, and then applying what you learn in a more acceptable techno format.

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agree with you there, i find making stuff that isn't techno or is experimental in some way really helps me when i get back on to making techno. Also drawing influences from outside of the techno spectrum helps as well. It is very rare for a techno tune to inspire or make me think creatively about making a new tune. However listening to other genre's such as hip hop, electronica, breaks, house etc very often inspires me to get into the studio

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

Another point I maybe think, is that to only listen to, and then only produce techno, is very unhealthy.

In-Breeding stagnates and retards the system.

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aha. but we understand this inheritantly. maybe just dont understand if some people dont. it just seems normal to me.

[quote="massplanck"]

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

it just seems normal to me.

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Inbreeding?

You got anything you`d like to divulge about your families past?

[quote="dirty_bass"]

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Originally Posted by massplanck

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

it just seems normal to me.

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Inbreeding?

You got anything you`d like to divulge about your families past?

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:lol:

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Originally Posted by massplanck

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Originally Posted by Mr Exit

People like cristian vogel and neil lansdtrumm push the boundries of 4/4 techno a bit more

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They basically make intellectual techno you can just get drunk and have a laugh too.

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I dunno, some of their stuffs well made for the dance floor, hard as nails dark as f*** s***

They really twist the grooves to make proper funky s*** as well

to me, any purposeful action is made in the pursuit of pleasure/enjoyment.
in this way, when i try (struggle) to create, i am in search of the same satisfaction as when i, say, go out and get ****ed and stomp to 10 year old acid techno.

the way i see it, they're just different ways of achieving the same thing...

i think art is a form of entertainment and vice versa.

i like waxing intellectual about techno because the more we discuss and debate, the more ideas we share and (hopefully), the better our music becomes...

...i mean...maybe someone gets inspired by this and makes something unique instead of a purpose maker/adam beyer clone record...

...maybe this thread gets locked because the idea of "new techno" is too controversial and the loop-o-philes counterattack. :shock: :shock:

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Originally Posted by SlavikSvensk

i like waxing intellectual about techno because the more we discuss and debate, the more ideas we share and (hopefully), the better our music becomes...

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Hmm, I'm 50/50 on this one.. sometimes I could be doing music and instead I waste time here, it's hard to call. Talking here has never inspired me to make 'experimental' music/techno. Actually *wanting* to make something more experimental, enjoying doing it, or being so pissed off with the shit techno that's around... are good reasons to make something a bit more challenging or interesting. It's down to people's own mindsets and how they actually view techno, what they want from it, and whether they want to make a contribution.. that's what seperates the good from the eh.. boring.

Theres loads of music that rocks dancfloors but not many that let you get as deep or experimental as Techno does so why waste the opertunity to do somthing different?

The attraction in techno for me is that im free to do what the **** I like with it and still its part of the Techno machine.

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Originally Posted by Mindful

Theres loads of music that rocks dancfloors but not many that let you get as deep or experimental as Techno does so why waste the opertunity to do somthing different?

The attraction in techno for me is that im free to do what the **** I like with it and still its part of the Techno machine.

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Definitely. Tell that to many established or upcoming Euro Techno producers though. I've been pretty appalled by the quality of some of the stuff coming out this year, it's actually getting worse some of it.

Gigs and profile are all many of the people within the scene care about, putting out good records seems long down the list for many.

Hello there...

i've just signed up so this is my first tentative mooch into the discussion arena!
To quickly introduce misel, I am a member of the London Techno Collective along with Steve D Bass and the team...
Ever since I moved to London 4 years ago and discovered the Techno scene down here I fell in love with it and it became my ambition to be a part of it..
I then met Steve and have since had the luxury of his expertise in the production side of techno. Seeing what Steve has achieved since having listened to his first release "Emotional Soundscapes" before it was even pressed, and also noting that Dirty Bass Records had completely it's own sound, I was inspired to learn properly how to produce and see what I could come up with.. - Proof is in the pudding on that one!

In relation to this discussion, I think there is a lot of frustration out there - we all want the techno scene to be bigger than what it is at the moment and are trying to find ways in which this can be achieved...

On the one hand there are those of us sayin that things aint right! n on the other we're sayin chill out, relax a little and enjoy what u can from what techno has to offer at the moment....

Perhaps if we become a little bit more sure of ourselves then things will start to show up in a more positive light...

What ya fink?

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Originally Posted by Sunil

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Originally Posted by Mindful

Theres loads of music that rocks dancfloors but not many that let you get as deep or experimental as Techno does so why waste the opertunity to do somthing different?

The attraction in techno for me is that im free to do what the **** I like with it and still its part of the Techno machine.

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Definitely. Tell that to many established or upcoming Euro Techno producers though. I've been pretty appalled by the quality of some of the stuff coming out this year, it's actually getting worse some of it.

Gigs and profile are all many of the people within the scene care about, putting out good records seems long down the list for many.

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it's crap and, with a few exceptions, its been crap for years.

i mean, if techno lets you be free and do what you want, why do so many people just put the same f***ing records out year in year out? how different is the average techno record from the average record in 2000?

this is EXACTLY why it's worthwhile to be discussing techno intellectually.

....someone said there aint a new movement.

you cant see it yet.

from where i am standing there are plenty of new options available with with to deliver a good set of dance music. So many combinations that the mind boggles. Traditionally there was only vinyl. Now there are limitless options to use (combination of vinyl, CD, Hardware and PC). It would be wise to take advantage of these options in order to gain a competitive edge and stand out from the plethora of standard end-to-end style DJ mixing. Remember people are growing tired of this overload.

As for production there is also a tide change. Labels tend to stick to formulas that work in order to avoid the risk of releasing something new that doesnt sell. Pure business sense that is valid. The punters react to that albeit they are turning away and new people are not attracted due to the "all of it sounds the same" attitude - and rightly so. Just as in any other form of music this "proven" formula approach is loosing faith with people.

Now dare I mention it, but, the digital distribution of music will change this formulaic approach. The punter or consumer (ie: DJ) will decide what works and the artist (and associated management or crew) will have to seek out potential distribution points and develop an individual market. I reckon you wont see big budget marketing hype in the future as the price of per unit sales will be tighter, as is already evident and the music will be more home grown as recording budgets also suffer. It will have to come back to performance and dedicated long term pursuit of an audiences ear. The result of this hopefully will be closer allies between DJs, artists and promoters as they form more powerful movements - hence unity and no more of this in fighting.....positive?

If i was a commercial DJ i would be worried about my future because there will be less money to push commercial remixes onto radio stations also. Therefore they will have to seek out music once again rather than take kick backs from the major labels to push their shit tracks. It will be interesting to see how Ministry of Sound handles this all???

I am rambling on now....but you get the point of what I am trying to say. The whole industry is in a state of change so to think that nothing is happening is rather naive. It would be better to just push in a new direction and not really care about what is "cool" or acceptable. Carve out your space and stake your claim and do the hard yards so that you can develop your own market.....if thats what you want.

:clap:

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Originally Posted by Sunil

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Originally Posted by Mindful

Theres loads of music that rocks dancfloors but not many that let you get as deep or experimental as Techno does so why waste the opertunity to do somthing different?

The attraction in techno for me is that im free to do what the **** I like with it and still its part of the Techno machine.

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Definitely. Tell that to many established or upcoming Euro Techno producers though. I've been pretty appalled by the quality of some of the stuff coming out this year, it's actually getting worse some of it.

Gigs and profile are all many of the people within the scene care about, putting out good records seems long down the list for many.

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who :eh:

word Glen.

I've been looking at it from that angle too.

The next wave is building.

Many will be left behind.

Many will ride it.

Oh, just to add...

Techno is not even at the front of the new movement this time round which is REALLY REALLY sad :(

But we'll see what happens over the next few years...

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Originally Posted by Joseph Isaac

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Originally Posted by Mr Exit

People like cristian vogel and neil lansdtrumm push the boundries of 4/4 techno a bit more

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Definitely agree...Vogel is one of my all time favorite producers. His old Djax Records were insanity...

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Vogel never recorded for Djax...

He did however record 5 albums for tresor...

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Originally Posted by crime

He did however record 5 albums for tresor...

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Does he drive a porshe?

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Originally Posted by holotropik

....someone said there aint a new movement.

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I'm talking about the music, not the industry. We all know the industry is in a state of change.

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Originally Posted by Sunil

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Originally Posted by holotropik

....someone said there aint a new movement.

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We all know the industry is in a state of change.

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that's putting it mildly. :lol:

but maybe new techno artists are not afraid of digital delivery! hahaha. it is dirty_bass who posted this originally after all... ;)

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Originally Posted by SlavikSvensk

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Originally Posted by Sunil

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Originally Posted by holotropik

....someone said there aint a new movement.

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We all know the industry is in a state of change.

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that's putting it mildly. :lol:

but maybe new techno artists are not afraid of digital delivery! hahaha. it is dirty_bass who posted this originally after all... ;)

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and your point?

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

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Originally Posted by SlavikSvensk

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Originally Posted by Sunil

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Originally Posted by holotropik

....someone said there aint a new movement.

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We all know the industry is in a state of change.

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that's putting it mildly. :lol:

but maybe new techno artists are not afraid of digital delivery! hahaha. it is dirty_bass who posted this originally after all... ;)

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and your point?

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whose mine? :eh: ...sunil is talking music, and holotropik was talking industry. maybe those two things are not so separate. you are someone who champions digital delivery, and you also started this post on the possible emergence of a new techno movement, so maybe "new techno movement" artists (yeah, that sounds lame to me too, but i can't think of anything better right now) are also people who pioneer the use of mp3s and other media to reinvigorate the industry...

...or maybe not...i'm just throwing that idea out there.

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Originally Posted by massplanck

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Originally Posted by crime

He did however record 5 albums for tresor...

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Does he drive a porshe?

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i sure hope so...

I`m sure as to the exact point I was making with this thread.
I think it has a number of points.
No so much that their is a new movement of techno, but maybe a lot of artists seem to be pulling away from the conventions of techno, but in the same way, are held back for various reasons.

Also that maybe people could do with looking outside of techno now and again.

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

I`m sure as to the exact point I was making with this thread.
I think it has a number of points.
No so much that their is a new movement of techno, but maybe a lot of artists seem to be pulling away from the conventions of techno, but in the same way, are held back for various reasons.

Also that maybe people could do with looking outside of techno now and again.

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Yes, I definitely think the serious artists out there need to look at alternatives to the club track 12" route, if they have more alternative of different stuff that needs to be heard, but won't sell on vinyl within the techno market as it stands.

Again, I think a good record in 2005 will still stand up and do the business if it's good enough. Punters value a good record... labels aren't repressing all their old winners to beat the band, for the good of their health.

One unfortunate thing nowadays is the common perception techno and the idea engrained in people's minds that the new stuff *can't* be as good as the old stuff. A few good records or a new 'movement' could change that though, and perhaps an element of 'techno' producers just pissing off :)

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Originally Posted by SlavikSvensk

i mean, if techno lets you be free and do what you want, why do so many people just put the same f***ing records out year in year out? how different is the average techno record from the average record in 2000?

this is EXACTLY why it's worthwhile to be discussing techno intellectually.

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Spot on mother fu*ker :clap:

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Originally Posted by SlavikSvensk

i mean, if techno lets you be free and do what you want, why do so many people just put the same f***ing records out year in year out?

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Because the moment it steps out of the boundary of what the majority of people call "techno" people don't consider it techno... TBH there are so many different takes on what it's about, I've given up writing "Techno" and now i write what I call "Music", it's this genre that encompasses everything...

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Originally Posted by SlavikSvensk

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Originally Posted by massplanck

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Originally Posted by crime

He did however record 5 albums for tresor...

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Does he drive a porshe?

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i sure hope so...

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Who cares what car people drive FFS
and to be honest, you'd be harded pushed to buy a porsche with money made from techno in this day and age...

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Originally Posted by crime

Who cares what car people drive FFS
and to be honest, you'd be harded pushed to buy a porsche with money made from techno in this day and age...

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:lol:

you would have to get youself one of them Regis bikes instead

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Originally Posted by crime

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Originally Posted by SlavikSvensk

i mean, if techno lets you be free and do what you want, why do so many people just put the same f***ing records out year in year out?

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Because the moment it steps out of the boundary of what the majority of people call "techno" people don't consider it techno... TBH there are so many different takes on what it's about, I've given up writing "Techno" and now i write what I call "Music", it's this genre that encompasses everything...

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i think i like this "music" you speak of...

i speak of both artist (firstly) and industry second. There is movement in both right now......look behind you at the next generation ;)

And i too now make just Electronic Dance Music (EDM) and its holotropik LIVE style not one pidgeon hole genre.

i often refer to it as techno because its made via technology. But it is harder to use the term techno these dayz as it isnt very clear to most people what that is - the genre explosion only makes it harder for people to know what you are refering to. When I say EDM they know exactly what i mean and i can explain to them my flavour and they respond to that. If i say Techno they just automatically put an assumption upon it which is often not correct and dont listen to what i have to say.

I hear personal expression in all good music. A communication of a musical idea, weak music has none of that and is just a cut and paste of other peoples tricks.

DB I respect your philosophising and I’m guessing the point of this thread is to find some inspiration in here (not that I think you need it). The point I think I’m trying to make is that even if there was a new revolution, we wouldn’t find it in a forum

Hello again...

I am aware that at the moment yerz don't know me from Jack, me bein a New Geezer n all, so bear with me...

This particular topic is something that we have been chewing on for ages, trying to figure out what to do next for the common good within the techno scene.

I think holotropic has nailed down our thoughts all in one go!

I'm an advocate of 'the more the merrier'; as in gathering together a group of like minded producers who are around to champion each other, gain constructive critisism and ideas from, and generally be supportive of each others' efforts to better themselves...

By doing this it creates a sense of being part of something good, rather than being out their on your own and feelin the pain coz you're being slated by someone who you have looked upon as your peer..

Surely this is a more helpfull approach to the situation as it allows a more relaxed creative energy in which to produce, thus any new ideas that you have come up with can be listened to constructively...

Sounds all very Utopaic I know, there bein a big wide world out there, but maybe this approach will draw in the energy that is needed to create something new and innovative...

(sorry bout the largest cliche eva there!!)

I have been fortunate to get rather inside information (from a music lawyer in Australia) relating to the future of the industry. Online distribution is definately stiring things up - which is not a real surprize to many of us who have used this medium for ages now being tech-heads....hehehehe.

basically this means that the game is wide open now. New alignments are forming and new repetoires developing within labels that are totally online rather than the traditional (and expensive) hardware format. For example the label that i am signed to (EDMdigital.com) is amassing artists rapidly so as to form an attractive pool of artists for when the major labels develop online media delivery security and control. As we know majors buy repetoires from independent labels or at least build networks/connections to them.

We also know that the music we are into is now able to be delivered in a myriad of digital techniques (final scratch, CDJ, machines, etc) by a DJ or artist. So it doesnt take a rocket scientist to work out that digital IS the prefered format of the future. Look at things like iPod for the consumer market.

As far as online networking goes we as Techno artists are soooo far ahead of the rest in terms of potential and knowledge it aint funny. We know how to use all this stuff and are not afraid to embrace anything new.

We are a global entity know so forming connections on forums like this is alllll goood....if you wanna piece of the future.

coz its here now.

We're talking about music not the industry fella! Can we stay within the topic. Good but obvious contributions nothingtheless.

I always find it really funny when people talk about the "Industry", I mean are you kidding me? does that mean there's a "Punk Rock industry"? I'm sure more punk records are sold than techno and I very much doubt they call their scene an "Industry".. Are you all drawing 6 figure salaries then?

And the funniest thing is the people who use this term the most are living in areas that sell the least records.... I mean there's nothing wrong with having aspirations, but c'mon, get real...

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Originally Posted by crime

And the funniest thing is the people who use this term the most are living in areas that sell the least records.... I mean there's nothing wrong with having aspirations, but c'mon, get real...

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It's all good. Berlin won't be the "centre" for ever. Especially if so much boring shit keeps coming out of there.

Selling the most amount of records says nothing about quality of output matey.

But thats kinda off topic now and I apoligise for my hijack.

Man be careful, the shareholders may ban you! This point has riled me more than once, if anyone is part of any industry it is simply the 'Music' industry.

Not the '4/4 ghetto techno 127.5 bpm industry'

It's only marginally worse than wittering on about getting 'signed' though.

I hate 'the industry'

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Originally Posted by Komplex

It's all good. Berlin won't be the "centre" for ever. Especially if so much boring shit keeps coming out of there.

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who mentioned berlin? Oh you did because you noticed I live there.. generally people seem to think minimal is all that comes ot of berlin, that's like saying only drum n bass is the only music to come out of london, hip hop is the only music to come out of NYC and Ghettotech is the only music that comes from Detroit..

There is actually a lot of good music coming out of berlin right now, of all different styles, Jamie Lidell lives here, Youngman is rocking it, there's the whole breakcore thing, some of the old residents from Tresor like Kreig who's really rocking it...

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Originally Posted by Komplex

I apoligise for my hijack.

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I've just re-read your post, why did you even bother? All you're doing is looking very much like you havn't got a clue what you're talking about, and what's with bringing up Berlin? what does that have to do with anything?
Go and have 10 years working this thing 24/7 then tell me something I don't know...

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Originally Posted by crime

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Originally Posted by Komplex

It's all good. Berlin won't be the "centre" for ever. Especially if so much boring shit keeps coming out of there.

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who mentioned berlin? Oh you did because you noticed I live there.. generally people seem to think minimal is all that comes ot of berlin, that's like saying only drum n bass is the only music to come out of london, hip hop is the only music to come out of NYC and Ghettotech is the only music that comes from Detroit..

There is actually a lot of good music coming out of berlin right now, of all different styles, Jamie Lidell lives here, Youngman is rocking it, there's the whole breakcore thing, some of the old residents from Tresor like Kreig who's really rocking it...

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I was nicely stirring you up based on your previous comments :)

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Originally Posted by crime

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Originally Posted by Komplex

I apoligise for my hijack.

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I've just re-read your post, why did you even bother? All you're doing is looking very much like you havn't got a clue what you're talking about, and what's with bringing up Berlin? what does that have to do with anything?
Go and have 10 years working this thing 24/7 then tell me something I don't know...

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:shock:

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Originally Posted by Komplex

I was nicely stirring you up based on your previous comments :)

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Why, do you have nothing better to do that sit on forums all day waiting for something to "Stir up"? is that your life's work?

sorry if it affected you deeply. chill out a little...