That was one serious mix. The track selection and Mr. Sims' impeccable skills made for a timeless set. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SummerOfSam
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That was one serious mix. The track selection and Mr. Sims' impeccable skills made for a timeless set. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SummerOfSam
:clap: :clap: :clap:
I dont think they are losing it at all.
Music is a fickle thing, it follows trends and fads which is largely driven by factors that an artist cannot control. As a DJ it is even harder to please the punters as they tend to be more demanding. Dont forget that each individual person expects that a DJ should play what they want or expect and therefore the DJ feels pulled from every direction by a crowd which can be very disheartening.
I always go back to the band senario. When a band first hits the scene they make a mark from their first release. Then they release something else the next year and it is always very hard to make the same impression. The band know this. They deliberate over where they want to go and the label boss also tells them where they should go. After all consideration they release something and hope that it works. It does but not the same way. They lose some of the original fans but gain some new ones. Some are long term listeners and some are transitory.
With Techno it is similar but different because people expect future all the time. Then there are global trends, where what is working in Europe may not be working in the US etc. Its not easy to pick what will work because Techno aint new anymore. People know it now, they know what a DJ does, they know what a producer does, they know how things in the industry work - they are very close to it in a majority of cases. They are also very fanatical about it too, more so than other forms of music as its passions run deep because its that sort of music.
Techno is also at the mercy of something else.......???
BTW, someone mentioned SuckerPunch.
Funny. We been doing a party down here in OZ called SuckerPunch all throughout last year. It was focussed on just that - a musical style that is Techno but travels through all elements of it and delivers a surprize during the set. It draws you in and takes you out. Was very successful and influenced a lot of other people as it was a great mix of all sub-genres. DJ Simon Slieker ran these parties (I helped).
This partly links up with the thread 'Techno.. a new movement?'
I can't comment on the big guns really, only to say that I don't think plots have been lost I just think creative energies have been strained either through longevity in the business, (those long weekends into the bargain!), or the fact that they may not feel that they have to focus on being innovative anymore...
Perhaps if a focal point was created so that producers old and new alike can flex their creative muscles for a given purpose then things may start to freshen up a little- and I think the discerning crowd will notice this...
What ya fink?
I'll second that "Little Fella"
That is one concept that I cant understand why it isnt taken advantage of. makes perfect sense to me. There is strength in numbers after all and is why many of the Hip-Hop crews are so strong!
No-one can do it alone for a long time and expect to survive, but, if they expand into a crew of like-minded artists then there is more for everyone.
I think one major dilemma with People who have been in the music business for too long is, that they have 'said' the things they wanted to say with their early works, the ones where they were still passionate about doing, changing and creating something. This passion is within everyone who enters the scene, but it naturally wears off.
After a while you need to come up with new ideas, but since you can't go in a totally different direction with every record, you kinda stick to your style and start limiting yourself. Then after a while you start becoming bored with your sound and feel the need to "evolve". Usually this means your production level will rise, your tracks will become more sophisticated and more "intelligent". But this is a good thing, right?
Well... maybe not. I got the theory that this process kind of kills the accessability of your tracks. It's usually the simple things that work. Simple beats, simple melodys - nothing fancy, just a good groove to get people moving. No thought, just emotion. When you burden your listeners with too much structure in your tracks, you will make your longtime fans happy, but you will loose the youngsters, who want uncomplicated accessible techno in the sound of today.
You talk alot of sense lil fella but what is this focal piont that us who whant to try somthing different should focus on a label,a night, pehaps both?Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Fella!
cause as far as I can see theres just a few potential labels and just a coupleof nights that I feel are a playground for such experimrntation
I'm personally more into the older generation in their younger days than the younger generation of today (which some exceptions)
Hard techno has gotten harder and faster but, for me anyways, this sound is boring. All this on beat kick into off beat lift compression lifted drum/noise makes me think its taking techno down a road similar to happy hardcore, hardstyle, etc. Its gottten really cheesy for me. Where as older, slower and more minimal techno sounded more calculated and had more outside influence and feeling. More twisted wierdness too
But back to the subject I think a lot of the older guys have perhaps grown away from the original hard techno sound and are trying to do something a bit different which looses some of the younger crowds. Some have lost their drive and others are disconnected (mills wanting pop star treatment for example). It reminds me, I have recently got a copy of the un-released world service 2 Dave Clarke techno cd and its terrible. There’s no love in it.
I guess its like survival of the fittest even with music, the younger producers have more energy in them where the older ones look for something different and get pushed to the back
we must be related...Quote:
Originally Posted by The Divide
Must be distant fellow yoda :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by SlavikSvensk
Good call Dan.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Divide
Damn Right :!:Quote:
Originally Posted by The Divide
The above sounds correct. But tell me hwho doees diecide upon which string is the correct one? You can'y tell, you just have to bree the ****ers dn let natural selction take over.
mirsha, go to bed!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
i think the older guys have lost it a bit but when they really push themselves, they're hard to beat.
it might also come down to the fact that its not so much that the old DJ's have lost their touch, but probably the fact that theres NEW young blood that also want to break into the international scene like the DJ's they used to look up to and make the most solid tracks ever because they have a true passion for it. As a result, it may seem like a lot of young bloods are making better tracks probably because they desperately want to get known and signed.
Sadly, in many cases its when they do succeed and break out into the market and reach a certain level of stardom that they begin to wane off a bit partly due to the idea that theyve now made it and dont need to try as hard, or maybe because their hefty DJ'ing schedules prohibits them from sitting a week at home and hammering out a future classic. You see it alot in the hiphop production community. 8th Wonder making dope beats before. He blows up and gets big, and now dont make good beats anymore. Not everyone can be as consistent as Dj Premier.
This is my opinion of course, and there are always exceptions to rules. Look at Oliver Ho. I think he is definately an exception.
To a deg I think your right... I wouldnt go so far as to put down sims, but a lot of the old school kats, ie mills and such.Quote:
Originally Posted by MARK EG
A) Are not playing the same way they used to unfortunatley
&
B) I think every1 is just soo used to them that there isnt the same magic left in their sets
Not to say they are bad, quite the contrary they are awesome...
But I def see the newer blood pushing the boundaries more in terms of the tunes they play & produce.
Also the crowds havent seen them perform 20000x so there is still mystery in their sets...
thats my opinion, if that makes sense hehe
Cheers for the comment earlier Mindful!
There are alot of people on this forum who are well up on knowledge and thinking - I wish I'd signed up ages ago!
As to your question about what kind of focal point we are thinking about, I'll post it up in the 'Techno- a new movement' thread as it is more appropriate there...
Shouldnt you be in church?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirsha
HAHAHAHHAHAHA
is it a lack of insperation because i think sometimes they have been down so many roads they run out of options :eh: like you mark i fully repect the big guns for there services to techno but do find they can go off the rails , mabey they are travelling so much they dont get time to think hahahahahahaha :lol: but yea i think they do need a good old kick up the ass somtimes ,because we all no wot they are capable of, just somtimes releases can be a let down and also sometimes there performance :doh: anyways the guys are awsome and i hope many see this post and have a good old think and find some determination and insperation in there own ways, pull 1 outa the bag so to speak. it sure would be a good thing for techno. :lol:
i think this 5 page conversation has evolved into nothing
dont understand why carolla, clarke, mills etc are the main issue of this supposed techno discussion
especially when its being backed up by the fact that wittekend and amok make better andmore refined techno music...i really do disgaree with this :lol:
you just have to listen to a set from some of the young shranz djs to hear how good they are,.
2hr of drum loops put through as much distrtion as possible. and throwing in great samples over thse beats like that shranz on me and shranz slippy. wondeful stuff.
much better than stuff that was out on purpose maker/search etc......those tunes are far to clean and musically oritated.
;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
i think people here are just talking about producers who get a bit softer as they get older.
well that is quite often true...
and maybe some older guys don't bang it like they used to
but musicianship stays with you all your life
it doesn't rub off ...or get used up as you get older
i think some of the older guys have just changed their syle
and for all the audience they've lost they probably gained the same amount of people who are into their newer sound. ( beyer for example)
so no the older guys haven't lost it in general
they've just changed , probably aware of the fact that there's a lot of new guys who play banging , so they've moved to something else
nothing wrong with progression.
I think it's important to separate performance/playing out from production skills - good producers obviously evolve with time and you may or may not like it, but as Henry said, musicianship stays with you forever... however, as you get older, performance and playing out 3-4 times a week gets draining and boring - the enthusiasm disappears and there's no way to hide it as a performer - it really comes through to the audience and if the boredom becomes contagious.
machina
If you truly enjoy what you do, the enthusiasm never dies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-BO
me to on the artists named i played out with amok a few week ago and yea a great guy proper nice dude , but beeing an old school type of guy i found myself thinking everything sounded the same :eh: a well rehearsed set on cd decks that i probably could teach my 4 year old son in a matter af days :shock: no offence amok you are a great guy but cd decks just dident do it for me as dident the 1 loop techno mixed so fast it was inposible to make a mistake. but then again these guys are doing great things for techno and also playing rolls of the pide piper to a younger generation, so on this issue i think some of us old school geezers should bite our bottom lips a bit, they are doing a great job. ;)
man i think you have to look at the bigger picture. who wants to go bang bang bang 24 7 365? i just finished a very hard piece for a german label and some experimental soul stuff for gunjack 04 b sides. did things from house, disco, ambient, experimental, jazz, techno, super hard techno and wierd electro tracks all in a one week session. now it is just about finding homes for each track and hoping that people catch on to the diversity going on here.
too many folks nowadays.....ther the folks that dont full understand music if you ask me.Quote:
Originally Posted by deafmosaic
as soon as they hear it aint going bang bang they dismiss it straight off.
ther loss tho....
if they think shranz on me is better music than radio head -karma police then...HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
i don't know about loosing it, i think the've evolved into different forms off 'techno' which doesn't reallt fit into a club enviroment where the punters won't to 'avit.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by deafmosaic
best thing ive heard all week fairdooze brian. i am hearing you man ,i like this attititude bang on man ;)
this is true.
i believe the more seasoned producers/djs are giving the people what they always give'em and thats not what they want to hear from them. i think the people that pay to see alot of the guys/gals are paying to hear them drop the new hot stuff, the stuff they say "see they always drop the hot shit",
but yes i also believe its the newer people that are the ones dropping the new or more different things and the payees arent aware that there has to be a future generation of producers/djs. they think these producers are everliving and wont ever retire...not saying they should but its time for the next breed, and still if any of the older cats wanted to do something with me id be flattered and would oblige in a heartbeat
totally agree but the hard part is getting people to go and see the leser names.
Man, a return trip to the boards has offered some good reading this morning.
I think every producer has a different mindset about what they are "creating" and what it has to eventually become. New or Old, creating a chunk of music is done for some reason.
Is it something to pay for your roof over your head? Is it something that will be a business card and get you gigs because many people will hear it and get familiar with "your sound"? Is it an experiment to see if you can compete/beat other records you like? Is it your equivilant of a punching bag that you use for expressing your emotions in a productive manner? Is it simply something you "do" because you are used to doing it..a familiar routine that is comforting? Is it an exercise to see if you can freak yourself out because you are your own worst critic? Is it an escape from having to deal with other "realities" in your life? Or does it shift between all these things on any given day?
Techno is evolution and no one evolves at the same pace, or rate. I would say that you can make comparisons to where you think people are at, but it is like a long race where the runners are all only part way into it. Newer runners are sprinting up, others are getting a 2nd wind, others have stopped to nap, but will be running again soon.
I don't even know if that makes sense to anyone. oh well.
Great point.....Quote:
Originally Posted by thetonewrecka
i kinda of think of it like that too sometimes. it also seems to me besides being a dj and producer I am a fan more than anything and alot of times i go out and am like damn this set is boring or bland I see them as being a successful dj/producer i expect certain things and seems like alot have fallen off and only get boked not because they are still as good as they were but because of their name, and hey maybe some think shit if i dont play my heart out and still get booked then why do i need to try new things or have to even try at all...
and hey a good percent of the seasoned veterans still ddo the damn thing but alot of times they arent and i guess we should also blame tohe promoters for booking them....
but hey who am i...just want to say im not pointing fingers but the less seasoned people seemed to be getting shafted because of things like that...i fully believe in having to pay dues shit ive been paying dues for 12yrs now...but at what point does it all payoff cuz the creators of this "scene" shouldnt have to be the ones to keep it going either ya know...if im bugging please let me know.....