ddr madness/the gift smitten

At the end of the day, regardless of the downloads, if i'm selling records i'm gonna find the best market i can, regardless of what people think morally. There's no point me selling The Gift for retail price when i can get 10x that amount, like it or not, to sell an old record that's in demand at retail price is bad business sense; and if you are selling something you are doing business anyway, so all this moralistic talk doesn't really wash with me i'm afraid.

Also, my opinion on the MP3 ripping, i can't say i really agree with it, it's still a breach of copyright especially if you're using it to earn money in the clubs (unless you've cleared (c) of course). Soulseek, well, i've just signed up, but isn't supposed to be used for promoting artists rather than ripping them off with illegal uploads/downlods?

From a buyers point of view, well, i wouldn't be happy paying 10x the retail value of course, but i can't help but think that if i wanted a tune that much, i'd pay for it, there's plenty of other people out there willing to so why shouldn't i ?

As for free music, well yes, i'm well up for it just like everybody else, but it has to be with respect.

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Originally Posted by Centurian

At the end of the day, regardless of the downloads, if i'm selling records i'm gonna find the best market i can, regardless of what people think morally. There's no point me selling The Gift for retail price when i can get 10x that amount, like it or not, to sell an old record that's in demand at retail price is bad business sense; and if you are selling something you are doing business anyway, so all this moralistic talk doesn't really wash with me i'm afraid.

Also, my opinion on the MP3 ripping, i can't say i really agree with it, it's still a breach of copyright especially if you're using it to earn money in the clubs (unless you've cleared (c) of course). Soulseek, well, i've just signed up, but isn't supposed to be used for promoting artists rather than ripping them off with illegal uploads/downlods?

From a buyers point of view, well, i wouldn't be happy paying 10x the retail value of course, but i can't help but think that if i wanted a tune that much, i'd pay for it, there's plenty of other people out there willing to so why shouldn't i ?

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It's not "business" for me. When I do, once in a blue moon, sell a record that fetches $50+ on E-Bay, I sell it to someone I know for the same as what I bought. Reason being is that a.) they actually want to play the thing out and, if I'm selling it, it's a record that collects dust and b.) by being reasonable with the price, someone who has a desire to play the track out for others will be inclined to take it and do so.

As for anything that is fetching such high amounts of cash, if it's out of print, yep, chalk me up as a pirate. If I want it that bad, I'll download it. Artists, in many circumstances, will give you permission to do so anyways. Still legally grey, depending upon the contract signed with the publisher by the artist. But, that doesn't bother me. It's why I'm amused when you see records popping up with titles like "Anti E-Bay Weapon." For some reason, it doesn't appear I'm alone in finding it kind of offensive that music which was pressed not even a decade ago in many cases starts fetching such high prices, all while be held by people who don't play it out anyways. So, nah, I'll never drop that much on a track. Especially when, thanks to filesharing, I will never have to.

:clap:

its good to see this attitude. we are talking about recent music here... these tunes are destined to be classics within the acid community but are they actually comparable to real genre defining classics such as "london acid city" , "neurodancer" or "substance abuse". Dont get me wrong, i think DDR is something really special (and i consider gottagetoutofit a true classic), but are these tracks really worth €50?

What I'm saying is that I don't care if people want to pay high prices for records. They are free to do so. Collectors will generally want the vinyl anyway, even if they have an MP3. At the same time, it seems ridiculous for a tiny genre like acid to get limited because most of the classics are owned by collectors who don't play them out or offfer them any exposure. Have you ever heard someone play a set of Important, Synewave, Experimental, 23 Frankfurt, etc.? Maybe back when they released, but not these days. I'm tired of the cycle of dance music, where people are constantly hung up on playing the latest and "greatest" without having any idea where the music came from. There should be respect for classic tracks that are still unmatched today, and MP3 can work wonders in distributing these tracks. It all contributes back to the strength and diversity of the scene.

:clap: good to see so many level headed opinions on this. i'm certainly not dissin anyone for makin money off of vinyl (if someone wants to pay fair enough), but i wouldn't. anyway, the missus would friggin kill me <--- see - priorities :cry:

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Originally Posted by tocsin

It's not "business" for me. When I do, once in a blue moon, sell a record that fetches $50+ on E-Bay, I sell it to someone I know for the same as what I bought. Reason being is that a.) they actually want to play the thing out and, if I'm selling it, it's a record that collects dust and b.) by being reasonable with the price, someone who has a desire to play the track out for others will be inclined to take it and do so.

As for anything that is fetching such high amounts of cash, if it's out of print, yep, chalk me up as a pirate. If I want it that bad, I'll download it. Artists, in many circumstances, will give you permission to do so anyways. Still legally grey, depending upon the contract signed with the publisher by the artist. But, that doesn't bother me. It's why I'm amused when you see records popping up with titles like "Anti E-Bay Weapon." For some reason, it doesn't appear I'm alone in finding it kind of offensive that music which was pressed not even a decade ago in many cases starts fetching such high prices, all while be held by people who don't play it out anyways. So, nah, I'll never drop that much on a track. Especially when, thanks to filesharing, I will never have to.

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BTW, do you have any records for sale? ;)

My opinion is that if there's money involved, then it's a business. Fairplay to you for not charging through the nose, i just can't help but think it's a bit lke shooting yourself in the foot. Endearing all the same.

Anyway, if you're getting permission to download the music then i can't see a problem, that's what i was saying about respect earlier, if you go to the artist and actually ask if it's ok then free music changes hands with respect, everythings sweet. When it comes to just going ahead and downloading with complete ignorance to what the copyright owner would say, then that's when it's wrong imo.

Also, i don't think it matters if the music gets played out, there's plenty of bedroom DJs who enjoy the music on their own at home.

At the end of the day, i'm reluctant to sell records because:
a) I know I'll regret it
b) At some point i'll probably want to hear it again
c) if i am to sell it, i'll find out a couple of weeks later i could have got double the cash for it.

Bottom line is that my record collection does mean a lot to me and it'll take a big offer for me to part with any of it, i don't see this as greedy, nostalgic maybe, but not greedy.

Just about every record I've ever sold is one I had two copies of. I really don't scratch or juggle at all anymore so holding on to two is just unnecesary. Turns out some were worth a pretty penny apparently. But, it's just not my thing. And, nah, I don't get permission from every artist where I've ever downloaded a track that is out of print. Ideally, sure, I should do that. But, whatever. It's a rare occurrence for me to begin with and, in the end, since it's out of print, I'd be lying if I said I really cared too much about how the artist felt. There was a time when "techno" pretty much raised its middle finger to copyright laws. I find the Hollywood industry arguments that seem to take root now, especially here, to just be kind of funny and I would do nothing short of laugh if any artist actually gave me shit for downloading a song that was out of print and originally pressed on a 500-1000 run without the slightest chance or plans for a repress.

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Originally Posted by tocsin

There was a time when "techno" pretty much raised its middle finger to copyright laws.

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Circa the internet i take it?

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Originally Posted by Centurian

Circa the internet i take it?

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No. Way before that. Back when "sampling" was in so much of the music and no market really existed that made paying a fee to do a derivative work a smart move. I'm probably kind of an anomoly though I guess. I have music out and, personally, couldn't give a damn if people download it and I never see a dime. I've sampled in near 90% of the tracks I've done. I've also used a significant amount of pirated software, up until I could afford to buy it. One of the things that drew me into techno was the culture behind it that seemed to be a straight offshoot of the late 80s/early 90s hacker culture. Now, I'm not implying that would support blatant piracy of MP3s. But, in a situation where a record was out of print, well, I just can't feel guilty for downloading it, just in the same way as, where law would likely say I'm doing something illegal, I'm unwilling to let the law stifle creativity that results in something different. To be honest, I feel a lot worse about not being able to afford to pay people for my use of their creations right now than I do when I download a song that's out of print and prevent a collector from seeing anywhere from a 500% to 1000% return on their investment, which is likely just collecting dust in their bin and, if they sell it to me, they've likely made a back up of anyways, whether on tape, CD or MP3 for themselves.

I do agree actually about the creativity part. If you can't afford the software or whatever then i don't think it's that bad at all. It's when people can afford the software, or can find the music elsewhere is when i think it's blatently taking the piss. I think that anyone who takes their music seriously would pretty much say the same, if anything, a lot of people encourage the use of pirated software to increase the creativity in music and i don't think it's just techno culture that takes this attitude.

Doesn't mean this is the right thing to do though, saying that not being able to afford the software is an excuse to pirate is a bit liike saying if you can't afford a car you should go out and steal one.

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Originally Posted by Centurian

I do agree actually about the creativity part.

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Well, i agree to an extent, i can condone it, but still don't think it's really the way to go about things.

Hey people...

does anyone know where a clip or something of 'the gift' is?

ive heard about it recently and im absolutly pants at names sometimes and i dunno if its the tune im thinkin of

dont think there is a clip anywhere, basically the tune has a story teller talking all the way through, he's got a welsh accent, and he's talking about the time he split up with his girlfriend if i remember rightly, and he decides to post himself to her in a box, something like that anyway

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Originally Posted by s!cknoteoo1

Hey people...

does anyone know where a clip or something of 'the gift' is?

ive heard about it recently and im absolutly pants at names sometimes and i dunno if its the tune im thinkin of

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why don't you buy The Sound of Smitten Vol 1 mixed by Aaron Liberator?
it has The Gift on it. i have the original post me an audio cd and i'll burn you a copy

Waldo Jefferson - Locust , Pennsylvania, consumed by day - time fantasies - she needed him when he wasn't there, dum dum dum dum

yeah if you could aratron thatd be just swell...

might try n get it though...mate had it and most of smitten is good (may it rest in peace :cry: )

me tinks that steve smitten is sellin stuff on ebay and he's got bitten as well on there to

thought id take this opportunity to say hi to people n stuff....new to the forum, troubles gettin signed on for a while but it was during the boa look changeover so admin mustve been busy (i'll let you off guys...this time.. ;) ) but i like what i see...theres no there good forums for like minded geezers (n geezettes) so good job to those involved :clap: (lets show a round of applause people....big love..... :lol:

Welcome mate! Enjoy your stay. :wink:

:lol:

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Originally Posted by dan the acid man

dont think there is a clip anywhere, basically the tune has a story teller talking all the way through, he's got a welsh accent, and he's talking about the time he split up with his girlfriend if i remember rightly, and he decides to post himself to her in a box, something like that anyway

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posts himself in a box then when she opens it she accidentally stabs him in the head and he dies! such a good record.

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Originally Posted by Aratron

Waldo Jefferson - Locust , Pennsylvania, consumed by day - time fantasies - she needed him when he wasn't there, dum dum dum dum

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:dance:

Love this tune :love:

Orginal text came from Velvet Underground isnt ? ;)

yeah i have heard the original too, have it on vinyl. i don't know how to explain it but the whole 303 of the track , imitates the instrumental of the track aswell as the vocal.
clever stuff

For a Smitten is Dead remix, they should remix The Gift and take out the vocals, crank the acid even MORE and then that would be one hell of an acid techno record for sure!