Final scatch all the way.
All the joys of mixing vinyl with none of the associated hassles.
If only tractor had VST support I would wet myself. Or if you could integrate ableton
ARE YOU LISTENING NATIVE INSTRUMENTS?
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Final scatch all the way.
All the joys of mixing vinyl with none of the associated hassles.
If only tractor had VST support I would wet myself. Or if you could integrate ableton
ARE YOU LISTENING NATIVE INSTRUMENTS?
jay: have you delved into ms pinky, and the ms pinky pluggo?
i have been looking into that, but until they have a better interface, i will have to wait. but to be able to spin vinyl from inside ableton, and make use of all of the effects? ooooh fun!
Any new technology can be a double edged sword in the way that it makes things easier and hence makes it easier for people with less talent to look like they have it.
Maybe we need to just be more discerning and accept that what ever way people play there will always be some who cheat, but there will always be more who innovate. Vinyl's nice to own, but if something else does the job as well/better/differently then why not...?
Maybe we need to ditch the idea of the DJ and be performers: Which ever way we perform?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlavikSvensk
to be fair its traditionally old tapes cut and spliced and played back through tape machines.. although to be fair its gramaphone 78's.. although to be fair its lads wearin grass skirts hammerin away at bongos.. although to be fair.. blah blah you get were i'm goin?
I have only ever used Technics turntables
never used cds/pcs/effects/software
just strait up black stuff --
not to say I would not try anything else , just never had the choice while I was Djing. Was lucky to get a mixer with a working EQ tbh
I personally believe a DJ should just play and mix other peoples music just like a DJ is supposed to rather than trying to become a producer by using software like ableton. If a tune is meant to have some kind of effect on it the producer would of created the tune that way in the first place, you dont need some kid coming along applying low/hi cut filters on top of tunes because he thinks it sounds cool. I want a DJ to play and mix records 100% untouched so I know what that im hearing is what the producer wants us to be hearing not what some kid with a laptop is making us hear.
Do you object to two records being played at the same time?Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog.1
C'mon mate, thats a bit limiting. In the right hands FX and tricks make ordinary tunes sparkle, and amazing tunes knock everyone for six. At the same time I've seen djs waste amazing tunes by not knowing what to do with them. All a question of who's behind the decks/laptop/gramaphone/abacus etc
That's a pretty narrow vision of music you've got there mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog.1
Suprised you don't object to a DJ "distorting the artist's true vision of his / her track" by mixing other tunes into the beginning and end.
Might as well sit at home and listen to the original tracks through headphones.
IMHO the great thing about Techno (more so than any other form of electronic music) is that it thrives on being ****ed with. The greatest joy I have as a DJ is finding two records which sit together so well that the whole becomes greater than the sum of it's parts, and you get them so locked together you can start going mental on the crossfader and it still sounds tight.
3 decks? Bring it on.
I think Ableton is just an extension of this, you can really go to town deconstructing stuff and putting it back together with your own slant.
As a producer, nothing would please me more than someone pulling apart one of my tracks and putting it together - with other stuff - to dancefloor devastating effect.
Yeah I once had a dj freind who tried to be creative so we had to chop off his hands and burn his minds eye.Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog.1
was great fun
:lol:
right..from now on we have tune after tune with a pause between each one.
what a great idea that is....i'm gonna try it :lol:
its amazing how you hear ideas like that and cant understand why you didnt think of it yoursef. this will be the next big thing for sure.
anyone wanna but a djm...i wont be needeing it. infact i only need one deck too.
1 technics 1210mk2 and a djm600 for sale.
offers around £500 please
Works for Jah Shaka, and his parties homp n hump more than any techno bash I`ve been to.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbugger
Betamax video is da Phuture.
with remote controlls with wires
i much prefer vinyl.
i hate cds and mps totally soulless and the quality of music is shit.
i also hate ableton - computer controlled djing or what eva - i think that will just destroy the scene.
i think the technology companies should make soem records players which are just brilliant but not as heavy so they can be made more portable - or maybe im just stuck in the past.
Hang on, ableton is destroying the scene.
I thought it was minimal this week?
Oh hang on, no, I think this week it`s fergies job to destroy the scene.
yup... well stuck in the past :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Aratron
What is being lost in the use of MP3's is sound quality. Why as a producer and an audio engineer would you want all the hard work you've put into making your music wasted, as the final product is a compressed piece of crap. Why spend the money on good gear? Why bother? MP3's sound like crap, they hurt my ears, especially on a big system.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlavikSvensk
I beg every Final Scratch dj I know to play wav's, and I think as storage space gets bigger, we might get there soon. I'm not opposed to any uncompressed digital format, but please use the best quality files you can!!
Utter shite mate.
MP3s can be far far superior to vinyl in terms of audio fidelity.
Low bitrate mp3s sound poor, high bitrate are indistinguishable from WAVs.
Why as a producer and an audio engineer would you want your music to be carved into a piece of plastic and played and amplified through a vibrating stylus?
320kbps is as good as a WAV, smaller and easier to store and indentify with tags.
WAV is the way it will ultimately go (hopefully 24bit96khz as well), but in the mean time upwards of 256kbps mp3s are fine and dandy.
as jay said.. absolute bullshit. a 320kps mp3 would be no differant on a rig than a wav file. i play wavs but thats because ableton uses up memory converting mp3 to wavs in a temp folder...Quote:
Originally Posted by Symmetric
Are you guys serious?
Listen, really listen to an MP3, even at 320kbps, and the original .wav on a GOOD system or headphones.
There's a difference. Compressed files are inferior to uncompressed. You can hear it in the hi-hats. Everything above 4KHz is brittle, even with the best codecs.
I'm not the only person on this forum with good enough ears to discern the difference, am I?
With today's technology, 16-bit 44.1KHz should be considered inferior, but unfortunately the consumer standard has gone backwards in quality. In what other industry has that been the case? Your DVD player in your living room has 24-bit 192KHz D/A converters, but you're playing shitty 320kbps files for your fans? If the music is the centerpiece of the experience, treat it as such. Don't skimp on quality for the sake of convenience.
like i already said. i play wavs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Symmetric
but on a large system there is NO discernable differance.. anyone that says otherwise has obviously got steve austins ears. anyway its all irrelevant anyway because no two tunes end up sounding the same. be it vinyl, wav, mps, ogg whatever.. theres always gonna be tonel differances. for eg: i tend to go for a lot of gain on my hats, gives em a crunch. some people like them clean. so theres already a differance before the file is encoded.
If, and this is extremely unlikely on any system, you could hear a discernible difference between a 320kbps Mp3 and a WAV you would be unable to tell which was "better".Quote:
Originally Posted by Symmetric
And even if you have steve austin ears, you are in the 0.000001% of the population who can hear these frequencies. Or even care. Most people happily listen to shite. You have to train you ear to even notice the difference.
oh dear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Symmetric
PISS OFFQuote:
Originally Posted by rhythmtech
I agree - and even if there is a tiny difference in the very top end if you stand in front of your rig and strain your ears for it (which I'm still not at all convinced of) you're going to be putting it through a mixer and playing other music on top of it and EQing it and generally f*cking with it anyway - that's kind of the whole point isn't it? So what if it only sounds 99.9% identical to the uncompressed wav - that's surely utterly immaterial when you've got something else's bassline underneath it and some looped sample running over the top... or maybe I'm missing the whole point of mixing. :eh:Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythmtech
erm, using that argument you could say why bother producing to any standard at all.
And then things descend into a mush of badly produced tripe.
Kinda like....things......are.......now
oh
I`ll get my coat.
I suppose you're right that most people don't care because everyone's walking around with their Ipods listening to MP3's.
I'll just keep jamming my earplugs in further whenever a Final Scratch dj takes the helm, or head to the second room or take a breather!
erm
final scratch DJ`s can use wavs you know
Weeeeeell, I suppose that's the case if you take that argument and extrapolate it to the extreme - I'm not saying that though, I'm just saying there's a time and a place to worry about exact faithful reproduction of the original sound and it's not when you're mixing tunes together through a rig. 99% quality is good enough in that situation surely?Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
Obviously quality is essential in the studio and every effort should be made to maximise it elsewhere... but I don't think it's realistic or important to expect absolute perfection on a rig, you should have other priorities at that point - like playing the right tunes at the right time and doing a good job mixing them together.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with your opinions on production standards but I think perfect sound quality belongs in the studio, and good quality compromise belongs on a rig.
;) ohh can they? sorry steve, what with the way every goes on around here, i thought the only option for us "digital djs" was 96kps mp3. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
must be where we're all going wrong. thank fvck we know that now.. was that printed in the ableton manual?
yes mate, it`s about time you stopped using them 8 bit samples and got with the prgram
And there lies the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by robin m
Shit club soundsystems run by idiots and limited to ****.
I`ve been in the sound system game for ages, and it`s depressing that a statement like that has to be.
We are talking about sound, and it`s not hard to have a average soundsystem sounding sweet, but a lot of the time it breaks down as soon as the rig is turned on.
Bad management of the corssovers and eq, terrible standrdised limiting and DJ`s who just crank it into the red.
why compromise?
to rhythmtech. sorry for being rude. if you have yourself an mps/ableton set i could listen too , maybe i could have a more infromed opinion?
just workin on a new promo at the moment. i'll pm you a megaupload link later tonight or tommorow if you want.
nice one. i need good music dudesQuote:
Originally Posted by rhythmtech
just one last thought for any of you that think ableton users are killing the scene.
myself
atrickDSP
davethedrummer
DDR
dirtybass
lowtek
jenson
zoid
distek
^^ this is a list of ableton users off the top of my head. i've been working my ass of for the techno scene, be it promotion, engineering or gigging for the last 11 years and some of the above have been doing it even longer!
is anyone gonna say that we're killing a scene we give so much to?
Please also add to the list Richie Hawtin, British Murder Boys & Paul Mac
Ableton is just another tool - formidable in the right hands, useless in the wrong ones.
The scene is built on more than round, flat bits of plastic.
it's always SOMETHING killing scene, and yet...it still keeps going...
fancy that! ;)
dean rodell uses ableton live allso
dirty bass wrote,,
Bad management of the crossovers and eq, terrible standrdised limiting and DJ`s who just crank it into the red.
too true matey :mad:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythmtech
not killing the scene i dont think. bringing something new to it maybe. but you cant expect everyone to jump up and down and embrace ableton as the new dj tool. when alot people like myself , like to see people on decks in the clubs and parties.
though i have heard some good sets on ableton and ive got used to it a bit more in last couple of months i guess
Ableton acceptance process:
Shock
Horror
Hatred
Grudging acceptance
Neutrality
Advocacy
You think people sang the praises of playing two turntables together AT THE SAME TIME to start with? People need time to adjust.
Further to the Ableton discussion: More sterling work from my good friend Gaz
i used to be hardcore vinyl & hardware..
then i thought 'why?' and played with software..
i moved on. as should 'techno' and all those who propose to support it. its, after all, a shortening of the word 'technology' which is about advancement.
never bought an MP3. prob never will. with Ableton, i can now play MY SHIT all the time & no longer pass out £6 or £8 for someone elses work :)
i still love 1210s & vinyl, but what i can do with Ableton alone is amkin me push forward. and THATS what its about imo
as for 'MP3 shit quality' as DB says, check the pa's of most clubs.. average at best.
ive seen some 'professional' djs ram mixers into the red, push the compressor too far, then pull me about 'that shit pa you made me play on' i mean, ffs, dont u know red is generally a bad sign ?
and i use WAV every time. i dont have a lappy, but given what i used to take out for hardware live sets, a pc is a doddle.
the whole argument is pointless imo. whats more important ? the means or the end ?
good points there module the end is the most important by far as for the red issue red allways means DANGER
I'll run a pioneer 600 at 3 red bars (4db) because it drives the a little signal and makes it sound punchy.
No more than that though...
nothing beats the vinyl .. IMO .. but that doesnt mean i dont use CD-j or ableton , just new ways to enhance u'r performance if u ask me .. i wouldnt exclude vinyl in any case ..
+vinyl is the only medium where u can ACTUALY touch the sound ,,, and most reliable ..
if labels sell all their trakcs in mp3 format, i think vynil may die...
For now, there´s only a few good tracks available on mp3. The best tracks are still on vynil, so plastic still survive.
yeah.. LEGALYQuote:
Originally Posted by Corinthiano
not true.. theres loadsa good stuff available legally.. just a case of finding it.