:shock: hey c'mon lets not be silly. to associate those names with both techno, and funk is hilarious. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by 1992
you were taking the piss right?
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:shock: hey c'mon lets not be silly. to associate those names with both techno, and funk is hilarious. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by 1992
you were taking the piss right?
i can also see good reason for not locking this topic.
this boards been a little bland of late, its nice to see some heated debates taking centre stage.
Wheres the silly? 'Ardkore as it was in 92 was an evolution of detroit techno, acid house, and other europian styles of dance music, thats why kevin saunderson had his tunes to be remixed by grooverider and even he himself released hardcore tunes as tronik house. hardcore, an evolution of techno, and latter jungle, an evolution of hardcore, was (past tense) all about funk.Quote:
Originally Posted by COL ECSTATIC
Anyway I certainly wouldn't concider hard minimal techno as being "funky" really. I don't think its suppose to be, thats not the point now is it? I haven't heard a techno tune with any breakbeat loops in back of a 909 kick since 1996 on some guys mixtape that I copied. Also I haven't heard a real "funky" bassline in a hard techno track in quite some time, the last was this Drumcode record...20.5 (but then again I haven't been an advid collector of techno vinyl so maybe I'm missing something).
Check Regis' later work.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1992
you're talking rubbish my friend...Quote:
Originally Posted by 1992
I agree - funk is such a minor influence that it is plain wrong to say that hard techno is an direct derivitive... Hard Step D&B but only at a push.
come on guys, back on topic :roll:
wtf has colour got to do with techno?
techno is for your ears not your eyes!!
why bother about what the artist looks like , enjoy what you hear !!!!!
if Dave Clarke can bring a race issue into music , what does that make him ?????
end of !!!!!!!!!
i can't understand this topic either. go into any drum and bass room at a party and u'll be surrounded by black ppl. now techno imo has more in common with dnb than pretty much any other form/style of music.
basically, if its a sub based thing why arent more producers into it?
how can you not understand the topic? why do people keep talking about race? its not so directly about race, this is more about the 'feel' of the music and early defining genres that causes major stirs.Quote:
Originally Posted by wenna
i just wanted you guys to have something interesting to chat about. if you cant see the point then dont write anything.
meanwhile.....what happened to dj funk? havent heard anything from him for a while. dj assault and pals are certainly keeping up the ghetto tech, but again we have no real platform for a pure ghetto tech night in this country, or at least not that i know of.
assault is white, see, thats how i'm not talking about race in subject, i'm talking about musical cultural referance.
mr EG you're on the right tip. a few of my black friends grew up loving UR and the detroit movement, but any black youngster could be forgiven for thinking there was little in Techno 2003 that he could truely latch on to. its a shame really.
Techno has a bit of funk, actually a bit of everything losts of people from diferent backgounds, cultures, etc... they all think of tehno in a different way . Techno is preciselly that.. all the cultural/ racial/ etc... rejects who do not give a fuc* about rules and the way this or that should be played/ made...
Techno combines all styles... u can be tech-house, tech-trance, abstract, etc... but it's techno!!
I think some of the more mellow/ soulfull techno from the early days was donne not because people were "black" but because they were opressed, because they're lifes were a predictable big void... grow up... work at the car factory... have kids... die ... loop ad eternum... Music was they're way of escapism/ dreaming/ etc... they did it 4 pure fun... anyways that's my view.. if u live a particular dark situation u either so bal*s of dark and angry or soft and dreammy!
Z
imo the first rule of techno is funk!
Like I said before I do think that it's more to do with where Techno is at at the moment as opposed to much else.
But you could also ask the question , how do we know there aren't as many black producers of Techno. Most of the time I buy records on the name and I really don't know what the producer looks like.They could be black /white/male/female/animal(most likely..it is techno after all)
So is it maybe a case of there isn't as much black sounding Techno out there rather than less black producers. UR are still releasing stuff which IS black techno ( could be mistaken but all the artists on UR are black are they not..if their not then pardon my ignorance) as is Stacey Pullen.
But other than that I can't be 100%.
Are you guys more in the know about who is and isn't black etc when it comes to producers??
good point, at the ned of the day it doesnt matter what the colour of the skin is of the producer as long as they are making good music.
Some interesting lines of argument here. Some monkeys as well, inevitably. Here's my 2 cents...
One of the things I love most about techno is that it is fairly well hidden. I'm from London, and spent all my teenage years running around at raves, listening to pirate radio and buying drum&bass and hardcore. I even got into garage at one stage (sorry).
Still like drum&bass and breaks, but one of the main reasons I was into the scene was its explicit self promotion. Flyers everywhere, loads of pirate radio stations, general media picking up the scene as being "underground" and very cool. The thing is people get a bit narrow minded if thats how they get into music - whirled in with the general package of image, attitude and aggression. Witness the ignorance and narrowmindedness you get in drum&bass forums. Where its "all about drum&bass" and everything else is by default rubbish.
I can't speak on other cities, but london being a big mixture of races it is interesting to see that disproportionately few black people attend techno - which is seen as being white. And as someone competely erroneously suggested earlier - drum&bass being black and of black origin. I think the media does a lot to culturally polarise music in this way, by crudely stereotyping all music with bass as being black, and symphonic melodic music as being white.
The amount of people who dont have a blind clue what techno is - either assuming it to be hard house or "bleepy german stuff" is testimony to the fact that techno doesn't market itself in such an aggressive manner. You can find your way into the scene rather than have it imposed upon you. Public ignorance of techno in the UK is strange considering how much time and money we invest in the dance music scene.
I'm blethering a bit. And I can only really talk from experience about London, and possibly the north east (where there are no black people whatsoever). Its intereting to see how and why people racialise music.
I'd really like to know why you think this, simply because it is so, so wrong. So why are you under this illusion?Quote:
all rubblish. techno is a white scene and D&B is a black scene because of who are the key innovators
Peace
Are you guys more in the know about who is and isn't black etc when it comes to producers??[/quote]
no i dont think i probably am. i'll by a record cos it works for me. i dont care if it was written by a chinese immigrant to argentina so long as i personally think it rocks.
this is why i was saying its not about the actual producers so much, more about the sound. but then, i would like more black people to appreciate the guys who busted their ass forging a new sound. i'm sure any black heroes are good for the black community.
What I was trying to say with that comment Tony was basically.
From the original thread . Dave Clarke stated their weren't as many black producers as before , but how does he actually know this unless he knows the names and faces of everyone releasing records. I consider myself to know as much as I need to about Techno , but I can't say I know where everyone is from , what they look like.
So , would you say Dave Clarke knows enough prodcuers/artists to make this comment in the first place.
I don't think there is one person in the world that can claim to know everything about Techno , every label , every artist on the labels etc etc??
no, agreed. and i havent a clue what clarke said in that interveiw, i merely read then pondered the front cover, so to me it only implied the feeling of the music. unless dave clarke has commisioned the worlds first census into the techno world then i'm sure he is either talking out of his leather trousers or also talking about the lack of jackin/booty.
its funny the way a lot of people refer to the 'black sound' as funky or soulful. that isnt instinctively the way for me. funky techno sounds super white to me. not the ur stuff, but primate and primevil or intec does. i know intec is coxs label, but to me the feel of the music is very white.
probably on my own on that one. damn these individual thought patterns!
I usually agree with things you say Tony but to associate funky or jack with being black is purely Stereotypical, like all black people can dance blah blah.
Truth is we don't know who makes what most of the time, and the color shouldnt matter, If the young black youth don't want to hear techno or make it oh well. They have that choice, Look at dj rush, his funk is jack no doubt but his techno doesnt exactly sound white or black, I mean jeez the best rapper is white. I don't think it matters a bit.
I'd guess Dave Clarke knows a lot of the major faces in the scene, and that he could tell from this that there aren't as many black people about.
This is a completely pointless observation. Techno may have started in Detroit, but now that Sweden, Germany, Eastern Europe, Italy and countless other predominantly white countries are producing techno you are bound to see more white faces. I'd wager that most techno produced now, and most techno parties and clubs are in Europe. So you are bound to see more white faces.
I dont think it matters remotely .
It definately doesn't ,but it was worth having a wee discussion on it.
White men can dance perfectly well too , look at Michael Jackson!!!
re-read dude, your agreeing with me, and i'm agreeing with you. aint that sweet :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by SummerOfSam
Oh damn. My bad Tony, Slap me five on the blackhand side
Soul Brother.
[quote="And as someone competely erroneously suggested earlier - drum&bass being black and of black origin." [/quote]
I completely stand by that comment. I go to D&B clubs in london and I find then full of a disproportionate number of black people compared to the black population within London. Even in areas that are not tradiotionally black ie. Hoxton you get 75% black people attending D&B nights. Go out in Brixton 95-95% of people at techno ecents are white.
You gonna tell me that 75% of London is black or 95% white. No. Then I stand by the comment that D&B is a black scene and Techno is a white scene. And no I don't mean 100% but well outside the proportion of these races in the population. An no I don't like it and no that don't make me a racist. I'm just not one of those people that so politically correct that they refuse to say what is in front of their eyes week in and week out.
Please more black people come out this weekend and prove me wrong!
That there are a higher proportion of black people in d&b clubs in london than the average population proportions - true. That the clubs are 75% black? Erm, which clubs are you going to? I've lived in london and been raving for a decade, and I'm yet to come across an all black d&b night. Maybe I've just been going to strangely white clubs and raves. They're all the major ones though...
Brixton tends to do more of a line in hard tech & acid techno. Which you can have as "white music" if you like. But if you are going to talk about "key innovators" techno is deeply in debt to all its detroit godfathers (mostly black), and players like carl cox, dave angel, dj rush, countless others.
Go to an R&B night at subterranea and that is almost 100% black. D&B has always been mixed. And more white than anything else. Black faces are maybe more memorable as there are more than usual, but it would be wrong to say the majority were black. D&B seems to mostly be made up of white teenage/early 20's boys, in London and all across the UK.
I'm not trying to be antagonistic so I hope this doesn't come across as agressive. And its nothing to do with political correctness. I just don't agree with your observations.
Peace.
i think its all just a series of stereotypes. that black skin colour is diferent than white is a stereotype, and that japanese ppl have eyes like they just sucked on a lemon is, as well, a total stereotype. we all look the same! just those nasty stereotypes make us seem diferent.Quote:
Originally Posted by SummerOfSam
ok, i was trying to be funny with this irony, but my point was that the racial influences are here, existing, and calling those diferences stereotypes is stupid. and leave poor dave alone, you guys wrote esseys based on just a 4 word quote on the frontpage of some magazine. first of all we should know the numbers of black, white, japanese mutobmo or whatever people in techo and than we can ask a question why.
What about "Techno is too cock"?
Not much cunt in techno is there?
Quite odd =|
I just figured out that you can say cunt , cock , arse , dick , fanny , cuntface , cunthead , cuntybaws, you cunt , he's a cunt,she's a cunt , but you can't say ****
oh ****!
you forgot twat, wank, bollocks and flaps
I would rather wank with sandpaper then get my mum to stamp on my sore red hard cock than go anywhere near an R&B club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Pace
Otherwise I correct myself on the D&B front in the last few years is more mixed. I remember a Metalheadz night in BlueNote in 1997/8 that was almost all black but a few trustafarians in the corner. The last D&B night I went to was at the Fortress in Clarkenwell and that was 80% white. So I'm talking out my arse again.
Sorry folks.
Quote:
I just figured out that you can say cunt , cock , arse , dick , fanny , cuntface , cunthead , cuntybaws, you cunt , he's a cunt,she's a cunt , but you can't say ****
L.O.L.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Remember this?
I think this is because of a demograpghic. Eastern Europeans, ie, the Polish, Russians, Germans etc love techno and have quite a large fanbase and is obviously predominantly a white part of the world, mainly due to Kraftwerk i'd imagine.
The thing is, how can techno not be black?
The curators of the Detroit sound were all black ffs. Mills, Saunderson, May, Craig, the list goes on and they continue to tour the world as much as any white techno artist. Lets not forget Carl Cox and the huge Brand name that he carries all over the world as well.
Personally i think it's well balanced.
techno is black, trance is yellow, minimal is khaki,or?
And after reading most of the thread...
What happened to Primate & Primate Endangered Species, and Djax?
Is that the kind of sound Dave is talking about?
Have they ceased business?
I dunno, but even if they are, i'd still play their tracks, music doesn't have to be new to get a certain sound you want.
Primate blew up and ingested itself up its own rectum
This thread probably should have done the same
This thread is too white, lol.
Yeah, there's some downloads available but that's mostly 2000-7, with a more extensive back catalogue with the classics.
Ashame if they have ceased trading as they were good labels.
And Primevil as well.
Primates myspace is down as well, if i'm not mistaken.
seem to remember some bad blood around primate etc going down. Personally I liked some of their stuff however a label can't sustain itself on a tribal bongo beat alone...
Primate wasn't all tribal, i remember RND Technologies - Mental Propulsion & Melrob - Incessent Sound, thrashed them both and nothing like the tribal sound, mind you, that is early Primate.
SOme of the primate coloured 10 inches were absolutely sublime
That was one of the later releases if I remember.
The slighty opaque yellow one?
who needs funk when you have WONK?
who needs black when you have white too?
my fav primate was the green michael burkat 10 inch