Where m8Quote:
Originally Posted by TechMouse
I been away for 5 years. What happened? I am in London.
I went to something before xmas in Brixton, up Coldharbour lane. A few guys from Kinetic, but honestly what a crock of shit. What happened?
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Where m8Quote:
Originally Posted by TechMouse
I been away for 5 years. What happened? I am in London.
I went to something before xmas in Brixton, up Coldharbour lane. A few guys from Kinetic, but honestly what a crock of shit. What happened?
on the nail :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by TechMouse
Off the top of my head...Quote:
Originally Posted by aNaLpLeAsEr
Under the Stairs at the 333 in Shoreditch next Friday should be a good laugh.
Keep an eye on the Malfaiteurs lot - they know how to throw a good bash.
Some decent warehouse parties out Hackney Wick way with reasonable frequency. I think there's one on April 17th, but unfortunately I'm out of the country.
Nuclear Free Zone always looks good - haven't made it down yet, but I shall endeavour to do so as and when I can. I hear good things.
Nice one TechMouse.
Do you know what happened with tribe of munt?
Pass. Haven't seen or heard anything in a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by aNaLpLeAsEr
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechMouse
Corrected
Note the use of the word "can" in that sentence.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Laughing_Man
There's some excellent standalone Techno out there.
It's in the minority though.
too many people being lazy and making dj tools that`s why
lack of ideas
Meh, DJ tools have their place. I use them often enough.
There's a time and a place for everything, if it's of a decent enough quality.
not done a party for over a yearQuote:
Originally Posted by aNaLpLeAsEr
the day for DJ tool swill end with vinylQuote:
Originally Posted by TechMouse
then those kind of people will just have to release loops, instead of 6 mins of the same thing
TBH if it doesn't matter if its shite DJing or a fake live set, they are both just as shit IMO.
But false advertising gets my goat and that happens with so called "live" sets. This doesn't happen as much with DJ, as the basics tend to be easy so folks can do it - but it IS what it is billed as.
and its 50/50 as to whether i could make a great live set or gain technique on the decks like Q-Bert with practice. BOTH CAN BE AS HARD OR AS EASY AS YOU WANT.
I would much rather watch a very good DJ than a mediocre live set.
well said
it's still just a loop then, isn't it? whether it comes in 4 bar or 200 bar form...Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Laughing_Man
yes but a loop is a loop, not 6 mins of the same thing pretending to be a release
true, true. was just being pedantic anyways :lol:
oooh you naughty little tinker!!
someone's got to do it, and we can't just rely on techmouse all the time...
surrealQuote:
Originally Posted by SlavikSvensk
It does wear me out, it has to be said.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlavikSvensk
i'm here for you, buddy. i'll help carry the load...
Okay, would someone please explain to me how an Ableton set is "live" or "dead". Is the difference that the dead set has placed all of the tracks in advance, whereas a live one is picking them on the fly?
That really seems mostly like splitting hairs to me when you're talking about Ableton, when all you'd really have to do to get from one to the other is, rather than actually laying down the tracks into a long set and hitting play, you lay them all down at home beforehand, then take notes on your setlist. Once you get there, drop them all in at the appropriate time and, voila!
1. Pat DSP at 000
2. Concrete DJz at 112
3. Industrialyzer at 180
4. The Advent at 224
and so on...
You're really only adding about four minutes of work between the "live" set and a "dead" one. I guess you could also record all the EQ changes, effects, and cross fading into a "dead" set as well, but why? Is it laziness? Lack of confidence? Is somebody else doing the work for you a la Milli Vanilli?
I don't know. It just seems to me that Ableton makes it SOOO easy already, why would anyone go the extra step of pre-programming the entire set beforehand? Sad.
I don`t know about making it easy, I have a much harder time playing my live pa than I did DJing 3 decks.
Running 8 channels of audio and then 4 vsti synths and drum machines.
Each channel with it`s own filters and in some cases effects to control, then there is the mapped controls to the vsti as well as control over the master channel effects, all this and trying to effectively transition between tunes in a similar way to a DJ makes pretty hard work.
I know DSP is very similar.
That's because your an old fart Steve. jk.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Laughing_Man
I have seen a bit of video from your live and it looks quite complex I must say... Pretty damn close to a regular rig setup.
There are quite a few people doing the full track thing and quite a few playing loops with no controllers at all. I am not going to say it's easy, it really depends on what approach you want to take....
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlavikSvensk
???
synthesis (drums and sounds) together with being able to respond to a crowd and take your music in any direction you feel like is live even if you have some of your synths automated. With what i would say is true live it can be changed on the fly at any given moment in your set. Being able to change the body of any sound, individual drums, effects, structure, rerouting signals to different sends, changing patches of vsts, drumming in live drums from pads, to completely control the dynamic of your track and set - rather than banging in some wavs and sticking some effects over them. Sure, it takes time to do.. sure, its gets complicated.. thats the beauty. Once you have a stucture for a live set with lots of tracks in it, you can take the same ableton self contained live set anywhere and bang out a completely different live set every time!
and watching someone do this can be VERY VERY entertaining.
Has anyone seen that video of exile showing off his skills? very very impressive (admittedly not with ableton but you get the picture)
ableton allows you to automate everything so you can picvk and choose what you want to control!
hands on is best!
18-24 channels (depending on the track I'm playing) for my current setup. (yeah yeah, i know. dick measuring contest, etc etc). it can get a bit confusing at times but that's the fun of it. its pure control. there are lots of other artists that do it this way as well. it's a shame that the ones that just press play are the ones that have more time to wave their hands in the air and get the attention.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Laughing_Man
like i said earlier there isn't a right or wrong way to do live pa's but don't just press play on a fully programmed 2 hour set and fake playing the piano in front of everyone. that's just taking the piss.
WELL SAID!Quote:
Originally Posted by clubsynthetic
-p.
except that there's no such thing as "easy"Quote:
Originally Posted by eppertheleper
I tried Ableton. It took me 45 minutes to warp 1 bloody track. I gave up. Decks are easier.
I mix my own original tracks and sequence new ones with fresh bits from compositions on the fly. deconstruct to reconstruct new is what i say
Heared a live set by Bas Mooy last year. He was using Live & a midi controller I think. He was dropping a new loop of dark, broken, pounding beats every 30 seconds. Very impressive & impossible to do with turntables. Opened my eyes to how good laptop sets can be.
that peter hook clip is disturbing
Best definition of a live pa
If you walk away from the kit, and the tune and mix progresses without you, it isn`t live.
Very simple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igneous
I have heard a ton of Bas's live's and they sound incredible. Wish I could see him or Radial sometime.
Radial is one of the best live's I have heard besides Speedy...
Agreed, but when you compare the difficulty of a dj set using Ableton to one on decks, you've effectively removed two of the hardest elements - beat matching and getting a track to drop on cue. I'm just an amateur tinkerer at best, but those two elements are the hardest parts for me to get right on tables. Ableton matches the beats and, if you know your tracks, getting them to drop at the appropriate time is so easy a first grader could do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by davethedrummer
With Ableton, you've still got to learn the software and know your tracks, but a lot of the technical aspects of spinning are completely handled for you. Anyway, my point was that without those two elements, you're left with finding two tracks that sound good together and mixing them properly so that they don't overwhelm one another. The skills required have been halved. Why someone would go the extra step of removing the last two difficult portions of mixing by doing the whole thing at home is beyond me. Ableton makes it significantly easier to simply mix two tracks together. I'm not knocking those who use hundreds of loops in a set and really push the software to a point that would be impossible using only turntables (Bas Mooy mention above). That IS impressive. What I'm asking is why anyone would pre-program an entire standard mix (one track to the next) at home when doing so on the fly with Ableton is so easy a plebeian like myself can do it?
Never seen this with DJ`s.
This whole conversation is about live pa`s
I guess you really have to know about production and pa`s to really appreciate what goes on here, but basically, building a live pa is a difficult thing to get your head around.
Within the Psi community "cheating" has always been around. DAT based PA`s and DJ sets, and now pre mixed sets on a laptop. In Psi, the music has always taken precedent over all else. No one seems to care if the act or the dj is live, as long as the music is good, but in the more underground scenes, this is very different.
Anyway, the actual construction of a live pa is a different mindset from production itself. I know a lot of producers who have wanted to play live, but just couldn`t get their head around implementing it, and so "cheated".
I`ve trained a lot of people now to make pa`s properly, and once you show someone the basic method of deconstructing their own music and then implementing it within ableton, generally their minds light up.
You don`t just need to run audio in ableton, it is just as easy to implement live vsti also, and in this sense, is no different to using hardware, only you are more portable.
Now as a complete asside, what does difficulty have to do with creativity?
I paint, but I rarely make my own paints. I generally buy pre made paint in a tube, it is much easier, and it doesn`t effect my creativity.
Mixing is not getting 2 revolving platters in time. Mixing is what you choose to play, when you choose to play it, and how you make the music interact, how you react to the music and the crowd.
If I can use something that allows me to spend more time being creative, and less time setting up the mechanics to allow me to be creative, I will take it every time.
That in essence, is Techno. Techno-logy.
I choose to use a mobile phone rather than smoke signals. It doesn`t change the veracity of my words, but it makes it easier for me to communicate.
Why people are still moaning about the use of technology to ease the passage of creativity in a music genre that is supposed to be on the cutting edge, I just don`t understand.
What is the difference with a DJ choosing to use ableton, traktor, CD, Vinyl? A choice of methods that all facilitate the flow of creativity.
Whatever you use is valid. As long as it allows you to be creative and you are the one wielding the brush, and not the other way round, all other considerations are basically irrelevant.
well said mate :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Laughing_Man
When's the last time you did a dj mix in ableton, you are far from right....Quote:
Originally Posted by eppertheleper
Not far from having the ability to post his opinions based on his experiences.
what's not right about it, though? he just said you don't have to beat match in ableton, which you don't, and that this fact makes him view ableton dj sets that don't go beyond just mixing (in a traditional sense) as less challenging.Quote:
Originally Posted by DJPAUZE
don't see anything wrong with that at all. if all you're doing is dropping tracks in after a few minutes and using the EQs (and maybe a few effects), it is less challenging that mixing. that's a valid point of view.
on the other hand, you could make an equally good case that there's no real point in doing things the hard way if you can do them the easy way. another valid opinion.
in either case, for me the point of software like ableton is to free you up to do other things once the preoccupation with beat matching is taken out of the equation.
Three weeks ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by DJPAUZE
Slav's right. I'm not saying that Ableton can't be VERY challenging. I was just saying, in the context of this discussion on "cheating" your way through a set, that it can also make things very easy if that's what the performer so desires.
n thats the difference...Quote:
Originally Posted by davethedrummer
Sorry, I guess I was referring to the actual setup of a dj set in ableton. It's not as easy as drop, press play and you have a set completed.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlavikSvensk
And again, i hear what his point was and misread the statement.
Pauze
My bad dude, no worries.Quote:
Originally Posted by eppertheleper
not a prob. maybe epper came off as anti-ableton a bit...i just know he's not at all :)
Why??????Quote:
Originally Posted by The Overfiend