Programming vs. Playing and what is Felt

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Originally Posted by tocsin

Sorry. A "chin stroker" is a term for someone who is usually very into one style of music, doesn't dance ato it, and will get snobby in telling you why their preferred style is so superior and anything that you listen to which is remotely different is shit. It's the kind of person that will actually get hung up over something as silly as whether someone used Fruity Loops or Abelton as if it has some importance to the listener appreciation, and not just ability of a producer to do what they want.

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Never met one meself... but it's pretty pointless to try and tell someone else that their music is shit and yours is better.. I kinda know where you are coming from, but find this whole 'chinstroker' thing a little strange, I suppose I just take people as people really.. One thing I will say though, you can tell when something has been done on say fruity loops compared to hardware... I'm not saying it's neccesarily going to be bad coming from a computer, I know some people who do really goods stuff with a computer, but there is a certain extra dimension to stuff produced on hardware if you ask me.. I get given demos for my label all the time, and time after time I can tell straight away that it's reason or fl i.e. it doesn't have that extra bit of oohmph on the bottom and crispness at the top, all the bass is a little mid range.. and what really gets me is when you can tell that the person hasn't even changed the kit in drum machine! But I will say there are some people who can get a really cool sound from a computer, but I think you have to be a much better producer all in all..
Bottom line though, a good track is a good track full stop, you can't compare playing an instrument with producing as they are 2 completerly different processes..
I mean, just because someone is a producer doesn't mean that they just program synths.. Look at Mathew Herbert, he wrote the whole score for his "Big Band" album and then got a big band to play it along with various guest musicians and vocalists.. I know this isn't techno exactly but I'm just demonstrating a point.. and bear in mind Rhythm is rhythm "Strings of life" was actually recorded in real time on a 4 track tape recorder i.e. all the synth parts were played in real time for the full 7 mins or whatever, not programmed.. so I do think it's a little naive to say that "Anyone can do it", it's exactly the kind of mantra chanted by the muscians union and rock bands when electronic dance music was first breaking through..
How come you got such an axe to grind on this anyway Tocsin?

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Originally Posted by gumpy green

this thread got me thinking......

it would be cool to see a live techno set but with folk playing with electroinc intruments.

someone on an electric drum kit...one playing sths live, maybe on jamming the fx....some live vocoded vocals....think it would be sweet.

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Subhead always have Phil doing a live drumming thing on his roland drum pad thing, and Vogel generally plays keys live when he's playing live....
Maybe you want to check out Liddell or Supercollider, they're utilising these concepts.. there is other stuff out there if you look outside the box....

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Originally Posted by crime

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Originally Posted by gumpy green

this thread got me thinking......

it would be cool to see a live techno set but with folk playing with electroinc intruments.

someone on an electric drum kit...one playing sths live, maybe on jamming the fx....some live vocoded vocals....think it would be sweet.

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Subhead always have Phil doing a live drumming thing on his roland drum pad thing, and Vogel generally plays keys live when he's playing live....
Maybe you want to check out Liddell or Supercollider, they're utilising these concepts.. there is other stuff out there if you look outside the box....

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good choice

seen supercollider play live a while back, grant is amazing on his drum kit

in fact, this leads me to the problem.. people always want techno to progress, but what about when it progresses so much that it doesn't sound like techno anymore? many people who are into techno would not be digging it as it's too far removed from the music they are familear with, saying "That's not techno" therefore techno will only progress as far as people's acceptance of something not sounding so much like techno to still be techno...

To be honest I'm pretty sick of the 'T' word anyway, it always seems to counjour up one image to people, one big kickdrum...

Maybe I'm a chinstroker too! I stand at the bar, don't dance and moan about the music most of the time...

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Originally Posted by crime

in fact, this leads me to the problem.. people always want techno to progress, but what about when it progresses so much that it doesn't sound like techno anymore? many people who are into techno would not be digging it as it's too far removed from the music they are familear with, saying "That's not techno" therefore techno will only progress as far as people's acceptance of something not sounding so much like techno to still be techno...

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Techno can`t, not sound like techno anymore.
It IS techno.
If it progresses, then it progresses that is the nature of things.
Evolve or die.
Mobile phones don`t look like they used to.
People as a whole, resist change. They find something they are comfortable with, and they want it again and again and again....

A lot of people said mobile phones were stupid.

Now everyone has one.

A lot of people said the internet was stupid

Now it`s so widespread.

To survive techno needs to keep evolving. It`s a case of embrace it, and be at the front, or resist it, and play catch up later, when you realise everyone likes the new thing.

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

Techno can`t, not sound like techno anymore.
It IS techno.
If it progresses, then it progresses that is the nature of things.
Evolve or die.

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I think you're missing my point a little, my point is that the moment something sounds different, I mean to me, it's all techno, whatever that is electronic, groundbreaking, pushing it forward, unfortunatly it seems to me that there are a lot of people who when they hear something that falls out of the boomtishboomtishboomtish, seem to think that it's not techno, because it doesn't go boomtishboomtishboomtish, therefore the whole thing is blighted because the moment that someone does something really out there and different, loads of people say "Oh, that's not techno, you can't mix it, play it at a party etc etc"... I'll still be working on different stuff anyway, whether anyone will be calling it techno or not is anyones guess...

No I get that, but screw those people.
Cos 2 years later they`ll be saying how they were always into this new type of techno, and they`ll be trying to make it themselves.

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

No I get that, but screw those people.

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well, completely, but the problem comes when you want to sell or play this different stuff and you're known for doing techno, people seem to want the same over and over.. I know you've just got to do it, but it becomes a little disheartning when people arn't feeling it...

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Originally Posted by gumpy green

this thread got me thinking......

it would be cool to see a live techno set but with folk playing with electroinc intruments.

someone on an electric drum kit...one playing sths live, maybe on jamming the fx....some live vocoded vocals....think it would be sweet.

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I had an idea the other night for an "acoustic" drum machine.

You'd get a step sequencer, then wire it up to some animatronic stuff to set off a kickdrum pedal, or hit a cymbal or whatever - do it for a whole drumkit. You'd retain the rock-solid timing essential to Techno, but get a really interesting and moreover different sound because of the physicality.

Might sound a bit crap overall, but would certainly make a visually interesting live show.

Totally, I despair at peoples general need to put you in a box.
"Oh he made that, therefore that`s what he does"

People resist change, what can I say.

It`s totally disheartening, but don`t let that discourage you.

You may not win the war, but the fight can be fun.

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Originally Posted by crime

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Originally Posted by gumpy green

this thread got me thinking......

it would be cool to see a live techno set but with folk playing with electroinc intruments.

someone on an electric drum kit...one playing sths live, maybe on jamming the fx....some live vocoded vocals....think it would be sweet.

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Subhead always have Phil doing a live drumming thing on his roland drum pad thing, and Vogel generally plays keys live when he's playing live....
Maybe you want to check out Liddell or Supercollider, they're utilising these concepts.. there is other stuff out there if you look outside the box....

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thanks for the info...will checkit...

saw many a live set but none using these "live" techniqes...

OTB-

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Seriously fukk the pianist, the guatirist and the shoe tapper your mom knows! Fukk all this nonsense!

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that is a very sad attitude for someone whos supposed to like music.......i like any style of music and luv to see someone play an intrument well......

too many folk like techno and thats it..........sad as fuk IMO.......far too many great tracks out ther to limit yerself to just techno......

i luv my hard as nails shit techno(and pretty much all techno) but yall still catch me listening to shit like "headz" albums/complimantions then yall catch me listening to the jam/ska....

how anyone can say that wathcing say santana on guiter is nonsence beats me

Hmmm. I personally wouldn't like to know about Santana showing off his guitar. But thats my taste. Yeah I like watching some bands live and can stand few songs outside my usual perimeter, but when it comes to passion its my techno and electro all I care about. You know, some of the people around me feel the same way as you. I disagree! There are too many bullshiteee out there. When I wrote that comment I was just talking about other forms of music and its inferiority to Techno. The comment was a backlash against all this old and narrowminded opinions people have about Techno music. My destination is electronic music(usuallly done with keyboards). The rest is pretty shitte! To you I may be limitted, to me I only care for the best :lol:

I think Techno and Electro are the most forward and future orientated music out there. Thats why people might have the same mind-frame as me. I'm sick listen to old ways of music. Boring men! Can't get into it. I have been removed from that too long now :snooty: !

I wouldn`t say it is the most future orientated music.
It is good, but there are other types of music that push the boundaries as well.
In terms of being musically progressive, I find some of the contemporary composers are far more ahead.

dont get me wrong techno is defo my passion but i dont limit myself to techno on its own.......

yer missin out son......thers soo much good stuff out ther besides electronic music.....(altho it is the best IMO)

i was like you when i was younger...all music is crap except rave......

then i grew up a bit and gave other shit a chance.......cos as soon as i used to hear a track if it wasent boom boom then it was in one ear out ther other...

now if you "listen" to it not "hear" it as you do do so with techno, listening for all the elements comin in and out and getting to feel the groove/melody , you will like alot of it.........no human can only like the sounds of one style.....

techno is pretty forward thinking, i agree but thers heaps of other shit just as far ahead.....tons of hiphop is just as good if not better than techno.....

Tell you - mixmaster mikes new shit is just fukin amazing........check out his album for forward thinking....tremendoes.

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How come you got such an axe to grind on this anyway Tocsin?

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Because I just grew real tired of dealing with the same pompous shit from people in techno that I was used to getting from progressive rockers. There's no room for it at all in techno which is why I won't humor it in the slightest.

yeah you gotta watch those pesky progressive rockers..

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Originally Posted by Jimfish

yeah you gotta watch those pesky progressive rockers..

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they seem to be making a comeback...mars volta #4 album in US. bizarre...

as for grumpy...i agree...i listen to lots of non-techno music...modern classical, indie rock, african drumming, hip-hop, etc. why limit oneself? take what you can from other forms of music and make your techno stronger in the process!