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I don't think anyone has a problem with people saying they don't like the record or giving their opinion on it. Thing is, many comments were not directed at this record, rather than ALL wittekind's productions and even further to ALL "schranz"
talk about missing the point ;)
Dsp's is better than any of them and you know this.Quote:
Originally Posted by DJAmok
well if we are going for missing teh point, i actually named a production of Sven's that i said rocked, and one i still spin at home from time to time, so errrr... yeah, i missed the point :roll:
;)
argh :doh:
Well those comments miss the point, but I'm still glad you made em ;)
of course :)
why should a record that was made to be played side by side with other music and sound have to be able to stand on its on?Quote:
Originally Posted by eyes without a face
own not on
Because when people make this kind of music, they justify lazy production by saying "well, it`s supposed to be mixed"Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindful
But what if it is supposed to be mixed surley its not just lazy.Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
I would never call Mills or Beyer lazy(not saying you are)but to me this is music that is made purley to stand side by side with other music.
Trance is where the anthems belong.
I respect you as an artist Steve but looped up techno is just as importent as any kind of techno to me
Steve's explained it well enough there
of course its lazy production to just make a record thats meant to be mixed with something else, its like saying "im going to make u a cake to eat, but itl taste like shit until u sprinkle some sugar on top"... whats the point, why not just put the sugar on in the first place... i.e why not just make more effort and produce some hard techno that does, and should, stand on its own even just played end to end
how can u say mills music is music made to stand side by side? he's made absolute stand alone classics such as the bells, step to enchantment, changes of life, Skin deep etc etc... Beyer more so has done the loopy stuff and is more akin to say 3 deck mixing but again, they are still records u cud play at home end to end and still appreciate just as much
this one has been done before, and how people cant see the laziness in saying "oh its meant to be played with something over the top" then that really is beyond me ;)
might i add there's nothing wrong with loopy, as long as its done well!
Like alot of the loopy, tribal stuff which dominated the techno scene for so long ( and still does in some clubs ). These tracks are made for mixing and i'm sure the vast majoiryt of people on this forum have bought it at one time or anotherQuote:
Originally Posted by eyes without a face
Some people like to put there own suger on tho Scott.
The reason you fail to see "how people cant see the laziness in saying "oh its meant to be played with something over the top" Is possibly because you personaly are not moved by such a thing ;)
But im one of the people who can listen to the same loop for 10 mins and not get board.
Infact what does bore me is somone who lets the records do the work for them and can onley see a record as a a tune to be played before they blend the next tune in I prefer to see sombody messing about with music rather than just playing it.
And on the subject of mills I would say he is one of the pioneers of techno that was meant to be played side by side with other music.
like you said this has been coverd before but so has slagging off distorted hard techno and most other disscusions on this board it doesnt mean the topic is over does it?
yeah of course its there, no said it wasnt, that stuff is there in every genre and i can honestly say ive never bought a record thinking "oh its ok but once i mix it with such and such itl b great", if a record isnt good enough to just be able to drop in a club on its own without having 1 or 2 more records playing underneath/over the top of it then i personally wouldnt be interested in it thats all im saying,
i have friends who lap the whole "made for mixing" thing up and i say the same to them
do u have to play the latest Wunsch offering with 2 of his other records underneath to have the club kicking off? or the latest Ruskin, Itoh, Mulero record in this manner?
no.... ;)
im bored by djs who let the records play out too, which is where creative djing comes into play, the records dont have to be loopy and hard to give enough room for trickery et al.... please dont think im just someone who lets a record play and doesnt actually believe in working out which records go together well and compliment each other, my dj style is very cut up based and there is always something going on in my sets and ud b hard pressed to find me just playing a record out and waiting to mix the next one in....
in this day and age, and techno's current state, its the producers who should be striving to make sure the records have the desired effect, not the Dj... someone said to me once a dj is only as good as the records he/she is playing and i thought "****, thats quite true"... even the hottest dj around wont rock it if the records are, for want of a better word, shite......
re mills, if its one thing his music does its stand alone, and knowing mills' mindset and way of thinking, the implication that he made his music so it was supposed to be played with something else wud probably offend the guy haha, he may not be now but at the time he was as forward thinking as it gets and tracks like "Life Cycle" and "The Extremist" are bona fide pieces of music, not just loop tools man....
ive actually enjoyed this whole thread/discussion quite alot i must say haha :)
It all depends on the crowd and what they want, that's what's important for me aswell as my own gratification. My taste in techno does not range on the typical Spanish style you quoted but you wouldn't know seeing as you've never heard me play out ;) I don't stick to formulas or styles when I play out, I like to play whatever takes my fancy OVER tracks by Wunsch, Mulero etc etc :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by eyes without a face
Come down to darkside next week Scott for the Atkins/Lekebusch night, it'd be nice to see you :cool:
Your wright mate you dont but its nice to build up to that sort of stuff somtimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by eyes without a face
I just dont think that becuause a stand alone track is good that a non stand alone track is pish or lazy.
I agree with most you say and its good that you wont stand for shit techno but to say that a good record should be able to stand on its own is wrong to me,a good record is a good record no matter what it does
We'r off the original subject a little now arnt we oops ;)
i wasnt making any personal reference to ur style dude i was just serving up a few examples of who, to me, make proper hard, dark techno... the point im making is yeah u can put stuff over to make it more interesting, but do u NEED to? no.... thats the point i was getting at, and its how records should be getting made these days imo...
ive been buying up alot more older records simply because they, to me, have more effect and shelf life than alot of the stuff thats coming up these days and i dont mean just in schranz but in general...
re darkside sorry dude im playing the Voodoo afterparty so a trip to Leeds is out the question, im hoping to do Locked the night before but thats lookin less likely now too... by the way cud u tell Jorge i dont have that phone anymore so cud he email me for my address to send some cd's down
;)
But im one of the people who can listen to the same loop for 10 mins and not get board
thats just the point, ive heard loop tracks that have blown my head off and ive had the same loop on for hours literaly at times, but it really just has to be done well!!! there is lazy loop production, and non-lazy.... the original subject was tool terror 1 and come on i think nearly everyones in agreement by now that that is the laziness i speak of