Is Ableton The Most Important Thing To Happen In Techno ?

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23-06-2005, 03:17 PM
eyes without a face

easy guys, i wasnt saying it couldnt be done, i was saying i literaly wasnt aware of anyone i knew using it, but Xfive is a good example id say because some of your tracks are sweet

interesting topic for sure, im starting to think Ableton is maybe a "marmite" program?
23-06-2005, 03:25 PM
slavestudios

Quote:

Originally Posted by Komplex

Just thought I'd quote tihs off the Abe's forum :)

Quote:

OK. I don't want to add to the noise floor here anymore - I've got to put in my $0.02 once and not repeat myself on this, since I can see it comes up again and again. I have to get this off my chest, but I won't repeat the points below ever again. Ever. That's a promise.

(though I might link to this thread...)

1. The dumbing down of Live 5 into an automatic beat detecting grid based DJ tool is tragic, but necessary for the survival of the corporate entity that is Ableton.

2. This dumbing down of Live as stated in point 1 will saturate the digital music performance labour market with every pinhead with an mp3 collection.

3. This saturation of the market will also erode Live's reputation as a tool for creative performers and composers. Promoters and punters will soon look on Live sets disdainfully as nothing requiring talent at all - and in many cases they will be right.

4. This dumbing down exacerbates the fact (yes, fact) that DJing is inheirently a no-talent activity when compared to live music creation. Why?

4.a. It is much easier to identify a good track, than it is to compose one on the fly.

4.b. Regarding the arguement that a DJs real talent is reading the crowd, an improvisational musician does the same on a higher order of magnitude...

4.c. Regarding the technical skill in mixing records, I learned in less than a two weeks. It's not hard, and Live 5 makes it even easier.

5. The arguement that "it's just about the music who cares how it's made" is infuriating. The lack of appreciation for effort and hard work is killing western civilization. The over-appreciation of DJs is just one of many symptoms of a sick society that values style over substance and worships immediate gratification without effort.

6. Turntablists are excluded from the above rant - they are truly musicians. As well, DJs who compose their own music or are musicians in their own right are excluded from most portions of the above rant - When composing they are at least engineers and artists.

'nuff said. I say the above now just to put it on the record and not have to speak of it again. I also promise not to post on Mac/PC debates or Sasha threads ever again.
_________________
L8er
Monty Bréqs

Discuss...

what a lot of self important bollox..
23-06-2005, 03:29 PM
slavestudios

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Divide

Personally I would like to see less people writing tracks in ableton and more people using midi to actually program beats. Forgive me but I just cant see ableton been the thing that pushes techno in a 'new direction' as it doesnt really do anything new

jesus.. more bollox..

midi ? ffs... lol

i have read some of the most steamin s**t ever on this one..
23-06-2005, 03:36 PM
slavestudios

and eyes, as much as you agree with the midi vibe, are you not a FL Studio user ? :lol:

either way, i see it as the first real utility that bridges live & dj sets..

go see a guy called PHEEK use & let me know what ya think..

all this 'its not old skool' or 'laptops are lazy' bulls**t ? f**k that.. how many of you cart crates of kit on & off ferrys & trains ?

what load of toss :roll:
23-06-2005, 03:41 PM
xfive

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyes without a face

easy guys, i wasnt saying it couldnt be done, i was saying i literaly wasnt aware of anyone i knew using it, but Xfive is a good example id say because some of your tracks are sweet

interesting topic for sure, im starting to think Ableton is maybe a "marmite" program?

Heh thanks Scott ;)
I wasn't gettin mad.. I just wanted to give an example that it can be used to completely create from scratch with no pre-recorded audio.. As most of my tracks are all VST based.

It's probably safe to call it a marmite. :lol:

Then again it depends on what definition you go with....

marmite
To describe something that you either love or hate.

OR

marmite
Highly concentrated bodily fluid found between the cheeks of your arse. Collected by duvet goblins in the night and stored in jars and sold internationally as 'the growing up spread'. My mum made me eat it.

Damn Urban Dictionary.... :shock: :lol:
23-06-2005, 03:53 PM
slavestudios

eyes, what difference does it make what a track was made on ?

if you aint heard any Live productions, can you tell us what those trax where made on ?

i dont think so..

or are you one of these 'a/d converter' experts who can recognise an application by sound alone :lol:

right, if Live aint the big bang i'm thinkin it is, what has happened thats important ? anyone ? or has nothing happened since the 4/4 was nailed down ?
23-06-2005, 04:17 PM
eyes without a face

stop taking my comments out of context, where did i once say it mattered what tracks where made on? ive just bloody said u can get good results out of Reason, Fruity etc so if anything im defending the software that we lot use, ease up, ive been shown examples of people who use Ableton to produce which is all that is needed

u take things too extreme's, no ones saying Ableton isnt any good, but i think the views are split between favouring the software and some tending to think the actual music created within the software is more important, its a good program yeah but just another platform in an ever growing market, it plays loops, you can produce in it etc but at the end of the day its down to personal taste... and i think the boundaries between using ableton and and actually playing "live" is something else that people are on either side of the fence about

dont post topics asking for opinions and then question every aspect of the opinion when its already been explained! you obviously love Ableton but that doesnt mean everyone does, and you cant force these things on people ;)
23-06-2005, 04:27 PM
slavestudios

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyes without a face

stop taking my comments out of context, where did i once say it mattered what tracks where made on? ive just bloody said u can get good results out of Reason, Fruity etc so if anything im defending the software that we lot use, ease up, ive been shown examples of people who use Ableton to produce which is all that is needed

u take things too extreme's, no ones saying Ableton isnt any good, but i think the views are split between favouring the software and some tending to think the actual music created within the software is more important, its a good program yeah but just another platform in an ever growing market, it plays loops, you can produce in it etc but at the end of the day its down to personal taste... and i think the boundaries between using ableton and and actually playing "live" is something else that people are on either side of the fence about

dont post topics asking for opinions and then question every aspect of the opinion when its already been explained! you obviously love Ableton but that doesnt mean everyone does, and you cant force these things on people ;)

jeus relax man.. its jus a forum :lol:

and no i dont 'love' Live. i aint even used it tbh.. jus flipped around. bigger on Reason 3 at the mo..

the heat gettin to peepz or wha :lol: :lol: :lol:

but you gotta admit, you have popped at ppl over their use of Live in the past. thats fair renuff but quit the innocent shit huh :lol: :lol: :lol:

j/k geez ;)
23-06-2005, 04:46 PM
eyes without a face

well if u dont use it then dont go on so much about it ;)

ive never had a pop at anyone for using Live, ive only ever gave my opinion on the program... innocent shit... really :roll:

:lol: ;)
23-06-2005, 04:52 PM
Heroes

Quote:

Originally Posted by perpetual

and eyes, as much as you agree with the midi vibe, are you not a FL Studio user ? :lol:

either way, i see it as the first real utility that bridges live & dj sets..

go see a guy called PHEEK use & let me know what ya think..

all this 'its not old skool' or 'laptops are lazy' bulls**t ? f**k that.. how many of you cart crates of kit on & off ferrys & trains ?

true, true, true, my rigs were 92 kilo, its fun until your dammage costs get more than your gig fee.......

what load of toss :roll:
23-06-2005, 04:58 PM
Heroes

i just like to add that the main beef word here is "live" not the programme the actual concept, i think, a more acceptable word or realistic word would be PA, if we gonna delve deep and cut each other up about its true meaning then it will keep going back until we are drumming on skins to get a true live.......
23-06-2005, 05:01 PM
Heroes

ive seen orbital play there whole sets on a 4 track, charge people through the nose for it, now thats one ****ing con.....
23-06-2005, 05:06 PM
slavestudios

i consider anything that isnt pre-sequenced to be 'live' reagardless of what kit.

jamming loops is 'live' to me. pressing play on a bunch of pre-sequenced loops is not 'live' to me..

more than a 50/50 margin of error makes it live... imo ;)
23-06-2005, 05:19 PM
Heroes

Quote:

Originally Posted by perpetual

jamming loops is 'live' to me. pressing play on a bunch of pre-sequenced loops is not 'live' to me..

what about pressing play on a bunch of 909 rhythms and 303 patterns? iam not trying to cause beef but live is a lot more than just triggering things, ableton1, 2 and 3 to a point could have fallen into a loop trigger catagory but even then the boundaries of that loop manipulation were way beyond other stuff........ableton 4 is whatever ya want it to be and 5 is really beyond most stuff part from being a bit late with the freeze fuction........
23-06-2005, 05:32 PM
slavestudios

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heroes

Quote:

Originally Posted by perpetual

jamming loops is 'live' to me. pressing play on a bunch of pre-sequenced loops is not 'live' to me..

what about pressing play on a bunch of 909 rhythms and 303 patterns? iam not trying to cause beef but live is a lot more than just triggering things, ableton1, 2 and 3 to a point could have fallen into a loop trigger catagory but even then the boundaries of that loop manipulation were way beyond other stuff........ableton 4 is whatever ya want it to be and 5 is really beyond most stuff part from being a bit late with the freeze fuction........

no no man. toally understand. its cool.

if someone has a load of patterns in their 303 & 909 then jams them, thats live. i used to play live with MC303s & drumachines just on a midi clock. just manually changed patterns & muted things & added delays.

but i had to change things or it would be 1 hour of one pattern lol

and i used to **** up ny gettin the wrong pattern or a pattern not changing when ithought it was going to & muting the wrong channels lol

but thats where ya learn. makin mistakes is a huge part of learning to play live..

first time in a room of ppl you feel crap. after dozens of shows, ya just push on & get over it & try to make up with some cool trix lol

even if it was Reason & someone is using Matrix sequencers & Redrum & jus changin the patterns manually as they go.. theres a margin for error, so i see that as live..

ppl that press play on Cubase & stand at a desk jus using sweeps & fx ? dont get me started on these poxy c**ts :nono:
23-06-2005, 07:10 PM
gunjack

this thread is dumb. one could be amazing and make sick tunes on a nose flute from borneo, or one could be rich and have a 50,000 dollar studio and make regressive trance. ableton, max msp or a nose flute, it depends on you.
23-06-2005, 09:18 PM
The Divide

Quote:

Originally Posted by perpetual

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Divide

Personally I would like to see less people writing tracks in ableton and more people using midi to actually program beats. Forgive me but I just cant see ableton been the thing that pushes techno in a 'new direction' as it doesnt really do anything new

jesus.. more bollox..

midi ? ffs... lol

i have read some of the most steamin s**t ever on this one..

Eeerrr ok

The kind of music, electronic or whatever involves constructional elements, I listen to the loop stuff aswell as more experimental sounds from the likes of amon tobin, autechre but Im only really just getting into that. Some of it is based around the drum patterns, fills, crescendos etc etc.

Don’t get me wrong, I know what live does I use it myself. It’s a good piece of software and has a good sound engine! But for production I prefer to step sequence, build patterns as appose to playing around with a load of loops. Yes you can do all that in Ableton, but it’s not the same, just like SX drum map editor isnt the same as using a step sequencer.

Seems to me like people go on about how ableton is the biggest thing in techno when to me anyways its just another sequencer with some nice easy to use functions. Perhaps as a performance tool it is an important thing for techno allowing people like myself to mix my own tracks together. The biggest thing to happen ever for techno? Hmmm what about all the techno around before ableton even existed? :roll:

The best thing to ever happen to techno for me would be the invention of the sampler, where would we be now without one? Where would we be without midi? But nah your right ableton made it all happen, most important thing ever. I believe you :lol:
23-06-2005, 09:27 PM
SlavikSvensk

title of the thread probably works better if you add "...in years" at the end, but i wouldn't really know, as i don't use ableton. i'd like to, as i've heard great things, but i've sort of gone down a different software path...

...but my guess is that what comes from it would vary tremendously based on the different people using it. again...no personal experience to back this up with, just a guess...
23-06-2005, 09:48 PM
xfive

I love ableton live to BITS... it's all I use.

But no it's not revolutionizing techno.. as Divide said..

Quote:

its just another sequencer with some nice easy to use functions.

That's how I see it... just a sequencer that works more a-kin to how my brain does... that's all.

Revolutionary would be a piece of software that had one button that says "MAKE TECHNO".

:lol: :lol:

Where would the fun and creativity in that be?

Honestly if anything... I wish they'd make the Notron again... I haven't used one but shit I'd love to... now THAT was some revolutionary gear.. :clap:
23-06-2005, 09:53 PM
slavestudios

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafmosaic

this thread is dumb.

opinions are great innit :lol:

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