**format wars** vinyl ? mp3 ? cd ? turntables ? ableton ?

so thats that one sorted...


anyone up for a bit of analog vs. digital?

personally i'm a fence sitter here. i'm basically running a digital studion (vsti's etc) with 1 analog modelling synth (its as close as i can afford) and running all through an analog desk). but i wonder is digital really that differant these days. i mean look at the pro53. future music did a waveform comparison a while back and he results were about 99.5% similiar to the pro5, the only differance being the more rounded tops and bottoms of the pro5 waveform. but that was b4 the pro53 added the "analog2 knob, which, if i understand correctly, emulates the strange tuning mishaps of old synths.

anyone got any ideas?

hhhhhmmmmm, i like it all, my problem is that with ableton, you end up staring at a screen instead of the crowd. having said that lumping wax around is a right pain in the arse

I played on a pair of cdj1000's for the first time on the weekend and was blown away by how quickly the conversion took - around 15 minutes and how much more precise they were.........instantly hooked. I wouldn't really want to do the ableton thing for djing as i don't see the point if you mainly play other peoples music....also I think running through a list of filenames isn't as easy as picking out the right cd. But anyway I'm converted...why don't all these labels just switch to selling cd? cheaper and easier I would have thought, plus you have the benefit of a much wider bag of tunes as I have hundreds of cd's which I wouldn't normally have access to when playing out.......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lunatrick

I played on a pair of cdj1000's for the first time on the weekend and was blown away by how quickly the conversion took - around 15 minutes and how much more precise they were.........instantly hooked. I wouldn't really want to do the ableton thing for djing as i don't see the point if you mainly play other peoples music....also I think running through a list of filenames isn't as easy as picking out the right cd. But anyway I'm converted...why don't all these labels just switch to selling cd? cheaper and easier I would have thought, plus you have the benefit of a much wider bag of tunes as I have hundreds of cd's which I wouldn't normally have access to when playing out.......

---

i think labels really need to take a business approach and do some marketing into how muach of each format they could sell.

i would love to see labels keeping on a limited run of vinyl aswell as selling cd singles and digital formats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jay Pace

Incidentally djing isnt the art of playing bits of plastic consecutively using turntables, its just the art of playing other people's music. Format has nothing to do with it.

---

though, to be fair, it's traditionally the art of playing other people's music using vinyl records ;)

seriously though...i see this is whole debate as similar to the acoustic guitar/electric guitar debates from way back when. vinyl's dominance is almost certainly going to wane, though it will also remain important for DJing for a long time to come.

the interesting question, in my opinion, is: are DJs manipulating mp3s or other digital media bring something to the table that vinyl DJs don't already, or is it just a cheaper, smaller storage medium and that's it? and what's being lost in return?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SlavikSvensk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jay Pace

Incidentally djing isnt the art of playing bits of plastic consecutively using turntables, its just the art of playing other people's music. Format has nothing to do with it.

---

though, to be fair, it's traditionally the art of playing other people's music using vinyl records ;)

seriously though...i see this is whole debate as similar to the acoustic guitar/electric guitar debates from way back when. vinyl's dominance is almost certainly going to wane, though it will also remain important for DJing for a long time to come.

the interesting question, in my opinion, is: are DJs manipulating mp3s or other digital media bring something to the table that vinyl DJs don't already, or is it just a cheaper, smaller storage medium and that's it? and what's being lost in return?

---

i dont think we bring something "else" to the table.. i think we bring somethin "differant". cant say about the storage space or quality loss. i refuse to use mp3. wav only for me and if i'm givin an mp3 i'll always do a bit of work on it get it sounding that little bit brighter, add a bit of bite. then render as wav.

i am asking if there is something substantively different that people feel they can bring by using mp3s, wavs or whatever, or if they are trying to achieve the same thing people do with vinyl, only in a cheaper and more space-economical way...and if there is, what that "something different" is...

in this case i'm talking about spinning, and excluding ableton sets, which are a whole 'nuther set of plusses and minuses

i think the something differant is the ability to manipulate the tracks that you're playing on the fly. extend breakdowns etc. djs have been able to re-sample on certain mixers for quite a number of years now but the sample capacity was never that great. with ableton you can record in as you play and instantly have a 4 bar loop or a 32 bar loop. i also think the effects manipulation is a lot better with ableton and a controller. no using two knobs to scroll through params etc. i've played a set with the dex running through the input on ableton and using its effects and it was great. the only problem i had was beatmatching. i had to be constantly hands on with the vinyl, which was grand if i was bringing the vinyl into the mix but on the way out again (with full eq) i had to have a very very slight touch as it was much more obvious sounding..

i love vinyl and will most likely buy it till they stop making it......but of course i'll use cd's and mp3's, especially to be playing my own tracks

i had to throw in my three cents here.

i am definitely sitting with one foot in both camps. i have djed vinyl for 11 years now, and will never stop. that said, i am working now on implementing ableton into my dj sets as well. anything that makes it more fun, is fine by me.

i could never go all ableton, because quite frankly, there is a certain physicality to djing with 2 or 3 decks and mixer that i just can't get with just a laptop. flipping thru the box and seeing that orange label that i hadn't planned on playing, but that would work perfectly...cueing up the record in just a few seconds and dropping it right into the mix, cutting the fader back and forth and then just dropping the shit...ahhh...i can't give that up. no way. never.

but i can certainly see the fun of augmenting that with custom edits, my own tracks, and fun little surprises that i could never pull off with only vinyl. how bout throwing in a timbaland bassline over some laidback luke jack? i can do that! dropping DnB basslines at half speed under kraftwerk? yup. my favorite thing lately...M.I.A. with electro...now THAT is freakin' fun!

i still think the luddites have some catching up to do, and the laptop only sets are missing something basic and physical. so i opted to use both. absolutes are for mathematicians and full-time internet debaters...let's play some tunes and rock the dancefloor, cuz at the end of the day, the only thing the punters care about is whether the music is pumpin' and they are breakin' a sweat! ;)

Final scatch all the way.
All the joys of mixing vinyl with none of the associated hassles.

If only tractor had VST support I would wet myself. Or if you could integrate ableton

ARE YOU LISTENING NATIVE INSTRUMENTS?

jay: have you delved into ms pinky, and the ms pinky pluggo?

i have been looking into that, but until they have a better interface, i will have to wait. but to be able to spin vinyl from inside ableton, and make use of all of the effects? ooooh fun!

Any new technology can be a double edged sword in the way that it makes things easier and hence makes it easier for people with less talent to look like they have it.

Maybe we need to just be more discerning and accept that what ever way people play there will always be some who cheat, but there will always be more who innovate. Vinyl's nice to own, but if something else does the job as well/better/differently then why not...?

Maybe we need to ditch the idea of the DJ and be performers: Which ever way we perform?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SlavikSvensk

though, to be fair, it's traditionally the art of playing other people's music using vinyl records ;)

---

to be fair its traditionally old tapes cut and spliced and played back through tape machines.. although to be fair its gramaphone 78's.. although to be fair its lads wearin grass skirts hammerin away at bongos.. although to be fair.. blah blah you get were i'm goin?

I have only ever used Technics turntables
never used cds/pcs/effects/software

just strait up black stuff --

not to say I would not try anything else , just never had the choice while I was Djing. Was lucky to get a mixer with a working EQ tbh

I personally believe a DJ should just play and mix other peoples music just like a DJ is supposed to rather than trying to become a producer by using software like ableton. If a tune is meant to have some kind of effect on it the producer would of created the tune that way in the first place, you dont need some kid coming along applying low/hi cut filters on top of tunes because he thinks it sounds cool. I want a DJ to play and mix records 100% untouched so I know what that im hearing is what the producer wants us to be hearing not what some kid with a laptop is making us hear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Analog.1

I personally believe a DJ should just play and mix other peoples music just like a DJ is supposed to rather than trying to become a producer by using software like ableton. If a tune is meant to have some kind of effect on it the producer would of created the tune that way in the first place, you dont need some kid coming along applying low/hi cut filters on top of tunes because he thinks it sounds cool. I want a DJ to play and mix records 100% untouched so I know what that im hearing is what the producer wants us to be hearing not what some kid with a laptop is making us hear.

---

Do you object to two records being played at the same time?

C'mon mate, thats a bit limiting. In the right hands FX and tricks make ordinary tunes sparkle, and amazing tunes knock everyone for six. At the same time I've seen djs waste amazing tunes by not knowing what to do with them. All a question of who's behind the decks/laptop/gramaphone/abacus etc

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Analog.1

I want a DJ to play and mix records 100% untouched so I know what that im hearing is what the producer wants us to be hearing not what some kid with a laptop is making us hear.

---

That's a pretty narrow vision of music you've got there mate.

Suprised you don't object to a DJ "distorting the artist's true vision of his / her track" by mixing other tunes into the beginning and end.

Might as well sit at home and listen to the original tracks through headphones.

IMHO the great thing about Techno (more so than any other form of electronic music) is that it thrives on being ****ed with. The greatest joy I have as a DJ is finding two records which sit together so well that the whole becomes greater than the sum of it's parts, and you get them so locked together you can start going mental on the crossfader and it still sounds tight.

3 decks? Bring it on.

I think Ableton is just an extension of this, you can really go to town deconstructing stuff and putting it back together with your own slant.

As a producer, nothing would please me more than someone pulling apart one of my tracks and putting it together - with other stuff - to dancefloor devastating effect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Analog.1

I personally believe a DJ should just play and mix other peoples music just like a DJ is supposed to rather than trying to become a producer by using software like ableton. If a tune is meant to have some kind of effect on it the producer would of created the tune that way in the first place, you dont need some kid coming along applying low/hi cut filters on top of tunes because he thinks it sounds cool. I want a DJ to play and mix records 100% untouched so I know what that im hearing is what the producer wants us to be hearing not what some kid with a laptop is making us hear.

---

Yeah I once had a dj freind who tried to be creative so we had to chop off his hands and burn his minds eye.

was great fun

:lol:

right..from now on we have tune after tune with a pause between each one.
what a great idea that is....i'm gonna try it :lol:

its amazing how you hear ideas like that and cant understand why you didnt think of it yoursef. this will be the next big thing for sure.

anyone wanna but a djm...i wont be needeing it. infact i only need one deck too.

1 technics 1210mk2 and a djm600 for sale.

offers around £500 please