Hard techno's shooting itself!

i honestly dont think the music has changed that much. its just gettin to new ears & ppls tastes are changing.

i constantly move my style around but i always maintain a techno vibe. be it very hard dense loopage or deeper more complex.

i dont think techno can kill itself. its just evolving & it always will. there will be waves where one feelin of techno washes over another but it doesnt mean that anything has gone forever, its just rolled back.

its like when you find a new producer, you love the first couple of records. then after youve got 5 or 6 12s, its easy to get flippant & say 'thats all he does & its crap now' it isnt crap or worse or whatever, its just that you are now exposed to their sound & its not 'brand new' anymore.

ive taken a notion for the Ben Sims, Carola, Broom style techno 3 deck style. but in a month i'll be back to hard techno, Wittekind style.

i also think ppl are influenced by other djs playing different records & sometimes the same records, but in a different way. i think its only natural to be influenced by good, compotent, skilled djs & live acts & try & learn from what youve seen or heard. not to copy, but to educate.


anyways, techno (hard or otherwise) will never die. the 'electroclash' fad is over but proper electro & bass music carrys on regardless.


LONG LIVE THE UNDERGROUND!

another thing, i think the attitude to record production has changed.

i believe a lot of records are made to mix, not let run for 4 mins then quickly mix to the other.

when i play Wittekind/Amok/Switchblade style, i rarely leave a track on its own for more than 30 seconds. i'll try to change the mixed out track in the breakdown & have it in in about 32 bars starting to mix.

theres a big difference between a stand alone techno track & a dj tool, and i think thats whats happening. ppl cant really see one from the other.

anyways, Final Scratch is here. get that, a laptop & Cubase & amke your own. simple. ten yeasr the technology wasnt here. now it is, so use it.

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Originally Posted by perpetual

i believe a lot of records are made to mix,

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This is the problem...

at the end of the day, all these djs about who moan about tunes being "Impossible to mix" are never going to get out of their bedrooms or progress out of being the techno equivilant of a pub band, because they all play the same tunes in the same way.. just stop and think about that, it's individuality which gets you places..

@dtl: I was being ironic, i don't really think I need it explaining to me...

@perpetual: I know what you're saying about producers first few records being really fresh..
this is the problem, people do one or two records that are really well recieved, and then just pump em out to a formulae.. my way of looking at it is once you've said something once with a tune is there really any point to saying it over and over again? I get people asking me "Why don't you do more stuff like your old Djax stuff" And I'm thinking "I already said what I wanted to say with that record" I'm not going to rehash it and it be a 'not quite as good tune as the first one I did'...
the long and short of it is:
F.U.C.K. Dj tools
bring on the music with something to say...

and before I get flamed for this, don't even bother, I don't care, and any contemptuous PMs will be aired publicly....
;)

in my humble opinion, the problem with techno is that there are too many expectations. a lot of people think it should sound like A or B or C. when tracks are supposed to sound a certain way, then it stifles innovation. so i guess i agree with crime. techno should sound more free than it does. it needs to be constantly evolving and to be constantly experimented with, in order to stay innovative and fresh.

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dtl: I was being ironic, i don't really think I need it explaining to me...

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Um, I was being ironic to answer your "questions" :lol: Really, I was leaning toward stating the facts generate from most average djs, who likely are going to be your biggest stakeholders for your label. For most businesses it's essiential to get grips of your clients needs and wants shall you wish to break through. So it's wise to consider to satisfy the Djs aka your clients, with a great degree of indiviuality which hopefully could bring them to the journey you have long wish to guide.

Eric.

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Originally Posted by dtl

Really, I was leaning toward stating the facts generate from most average djs, who likely are going to be your biggest stakeholders for your label. For most businesses it's essiential to get grips of your clients needs and wants shall you wish to break through. So it's wise to consider to satisfy the Djs aka your clients, with a great degree of indiviuality which hopefully could bring them to the journey you have long wish to guide.

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it don't work like that, that's just business studies bull, generally taught by failed business people.. Music either sells or it don't and it can be quite unpredictable....

Not being funny, but really don't need to be told how to suck eggs mate, I been involved in running labels for the past 3 years, and there's enough people around me with a lot of experience who I can normally go to for "Advice"...

you probably dont want my 2 cents but here goes anyway.


selling techno record will not make you money. (unless you sell 5 or 6 thousand copies of each 12") i look at it like the records are for expressing myslef to the public and if any money comes back it is a bonus.

but i have learned that the degree of promotion needed to make a truly big label is just rediculously out of my price range and so with DM and GJS i just try to make kick ass tracks and concepts reflecting my own trip. my records sell about 1200 copies each, i dont make much money, but the ppl usually buy all of the copies we press so i get by.


its expensive to make covers with art, but i made the GJS series records with the jackets because i feel that you need to provide a more complete package for consumers so that even though they can get the tracks online, they still go down to the shop and pick up the disc because they want to support the artist and because it is satisfying to hold the finished product in hand.


anyway i hope we can press more copies of the next few discs, so that people in the states and asia can have better access to the records. spain, germany, holland, the czeck republic and slovakia, all over europe people have supported the records and i am truly gratefull, but it would be good to have the records in more countries.

it is true that the vinyl industry is in the toilet right now, but its what you make it i guess.

Hard techno?
Techno itself is shooting itself in the foot by placing the blame on artists rather than the shadyness of label owners to the artists, the shadyness of the distributors to the labels, and the flimsyness of the uneducated consumer, who isn't willing to even listen to another artist, because it isn't on their favorite label. I find there is also a certain clickyness or nepotism in the industry. Most people wont listen to your demo unless you have a certain affiliation or an inside track so to speak. I am looking at techno now in the same degree I viewed hip hop before the native tongues came in the late 80's early 90's
There needs to be some sort of unification between artists that scale the sub genres. I'm talking full range. For example from Dare I say it Shranz all the way to Tech house dub. Something of like a wu tang proportion a group of producers, dj's distributors label owners who just have desire pushing the scene's integrity and survival forward instead of being greedy and trying to be the next super star dj with a pony tail and gucci shades.

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Hard techno?
Techno itself is shooting itself in the foot by placing the blame on artists rather than the shadyness of label owners to the artists, the shadyness of the distributors to the labels, and the flimsyness of the uneducated consumer, who isn't willing to even listen to another artist, because it isn't on their favorite label. I find there is also a certain clickyness or nepotism in the industry. Most people wont listen to your demo unless you have a certain affiliation or an inside track so to speak. I am looking at techno now in the same degree I viewed hip hop before the native tongues came in the late 80's early 90's
There needs to be some sort of unification between artists that scale the sub genres. I'm talking full range. For example from Dare I say it Shranz all the way to Tech house dub. Something of like a wu tang proportion a group of producers, dj's distributors label owners who just have desire pushing the scene's integrity and survival forward instead of being greedy and trying to be the next super star dj with a pony tail and gucci shades.

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:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Word.

i think techno tries to put itself above the club scene but as long as ive been going out theres always been shady parties, shady people and shady business deals! i think music and the media in general suffers from fractionalization and now everyone can have their own niche of music whether its funky clubby liquid drum and bass or suicide heroin rock or hard ****ing techno ;) but there isnt enough of going out to a party and having your mind blown with something completely left field that you've never heard before and won't automatically label as "EWW THATS GAY." i dunno if artist collectives do much for artists outside the collective but i think more producers should be making chicago booty tech house schranz dubs!

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Originally Posted by SummerOfSam

Hard techno?
Techno itself is shooting itself in the foot by placing the blame on artists rather than the shadyness of label owners to the artists, the shadyness of the distributors to the labels, and the flimsyness of the uneducated consumer, who isn't willing to even listen to another artist, because it isn't on their favorite label. I find there is also a certain clickyness or nepotism in the industry. Most people wont listen to your demo unless you have a certain affiliation or an inside track so to speak. I am looking at techno now in the same degree I viewed hip hop before the native tongues came in the late 80's early 90's
There needs to be some sort of unification between artists that scale the sub genres. I'm talking full range. For example from Dare I say it Shranz all the way to Tech house dub. Something of like a wu tang proportion a group of producers, dj's distributors label owners who just have desire pushing the scene's integrity and survival forward instead of being greedy and trying to be the next super star dj with a pony tail and gucci shades.

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this is the truth

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Originally Posted by SummerOfSam

Hard techno?
Techno itself is shooting itself in the foot by placing the blame on artists rather than the shadyness of label owners to the artists, the shadyness of the distributors to the labels, and the flimsyness of the uneducated consumer, who isn't willing to even listen to another artist, because it isn't on their favorite label. I find there is also a certain clickyness or nepotism in the industry. Most people wont listen to your demo unless you have a certain affiliation or an inside track so to speak. I am looking at techno now in the same degree I viewed hip hop before the native tongues came in the late 80's early 90's
There needs to be some sort of unification between artists that scale the sub genres. I'm talking full range. For example from Dare I say it Shranz all the way to Tech house dub. Something of like a wu tang proportion a group of producers, dj's distributors label owners who just have desire pushing the scene's integrity and survival forward instead of being greedy and trying to be the next super star dj with a pony tail and gucci shades.

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I agree 100% man

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Originally Posted by SummerOfSam

Hard techno?
Techno itself is shooting itself in the foot by placing the blame on artists rather than the shadyness of label owners to the artists, the shadyness of the distributors to the labels, and the flimsyness of the uneducated consumer, who isn't willing to even listen to another artist, because it isn't on their favorite label. I find there is also a certain clickyness or nepotism in the industry. Most people wont listen to your demo unless you have a certain affiliation or an inside track so to speak. I am looking at techno now in the same degree I viewed hip hop before the native tongues came in the late 80's early 90's
There needs to be some sort of unification between artists that scale the sub genres. I'm talking full range. For example from Dare I say it Shranz all the way to Tech house dub. Something of like a wu tang proportion a group of producers, dj's distributors label owners who just have desire pushing the scene's integrity and survival forward instead of being greedy and trying to be the next super star dj with a pony tail and gucci shades.

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I was also about to say that I agree but to be honest re=reading I dont think i do at all.

Why? Because quality techno/music/hedonism lives on despite all of those things you have just mentioned. I feed off the bullshit and actually grow stronger from it. So do lots of other people. We only talk about it in this way on messages boards because we're too impatient and are looking for a quick way out. There is none. I'm not worried personaly. I know that I will always find new music I love till the day I die. I wish people would dig deeper though and realise that they should be buying at least one or two other types of record along with their normal staple everytime they visit the record store. Become a 'little bit of a nerd' but dont convert 'fully' if you dont want to ( you know what i mean). You like what you like but you never give people they opportunity to portray you as a sheep who just eats grass all day.Just have a quick taste of the leaves, stones, flowers, tree bark, the other sheeps hole too or whatever... what the ****? :shock:

I'll get me tree.

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Originally Posted by massplanck

I feed off the bullshit and actually grow stronger from it. So do lots of other people. We only talk about it in this way on messages boards because we're too impatient and are looking for a quick way out.

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Is that so?
You have the right to disagree, But to assume I or people who agree with me are "cutting corners" is an unjust assumption.
I'm the same person who spent the past 3 years programming songs from scratch not knowing most people used samples or loops!
I don't even feel the need to validate my point even more to be honest with you. But if you thrive off negativity it will show in your music and you in fact will perpetuate the same behavior by accepting it.
Feed off creative criticism but don't thrive on what makes this industry messed up.

Is that so?
You have the right to disagree, But to assume I or people who agree with me are "cutting corners" is an unjust assumption.
I'm the same person who spent the past 3 years programming songs from scratch not knowing most people used samples or loops!
I don't even feel the need to validate my point even more to be honest with you. But if you thrive off negativity it will show in your music and you in fact will perpetuate the same behavior by accepting it.
Feed off creative criticism but don't thrive on what makes this industry messed up.[/quote]

You are taking me up wrong me thinks. :nono: :lol: I understand what you said but personaly I dont get too worked up about what 'makes this industry messed up' coz its always going to be that way in some shape or form. Anyway I thought that the techno industry thrives on being anti-commercial and when it does become 'commercial' loses its credibility anyway. So whats the problem? Legends get remembered as legends and the chancers will get remembered as chancers. Thats first and last prize there for you.


also.. on the 3 years you spent 'sequencing' and didnt releasise that everyone was using loops. well why did you change ? Now people are releasing the opposite.

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Originally Posted by massplanck

also.. on the 3 years you spent 'sequencing' and didnt releasise that everyone was using loops. well why did you change ? Now people are releasing the opposite.

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Use all of your talents to your advantage.

And as far as accepting the business practices?
Why accept mediocrity,
It isn't about commercial success it's about fairness.
If people keep jerking each other who the hell is going to have the desire to keep it going? Do you know how many people I know who make brilliant stuff but don't want to be bothered with the business end that they just end up falling thru the cracks? This keeps happening our love this genre will fade out on it's own.

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Originally Posted by SummerOfSam

Quote:

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Originally Posted by massplanck

also.. on the 3 years you spent 'sequencing' and didnt releasise that everyone was using loops. well why did you change ? Now people are releasing the opposite.

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Use all of your talents to your advantage.

And as far as accepting the business practices?
Why accept mediocrity,
It isn't about commercial success it's about fairness.
If people keep jerking each other who the hell is going to have the desire to keep it going? Do you know how many people I know who make brilliant stuff but don't want to be bothered with the business end that they just end up falling thru the cracks? This keeps happening our love this genre will fade out on it's own.

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mediocrity? . I dont accept it. It just shows me how to create something new which isnt.

Do you know how many people I know who make brilliant stuff persevere and dont fall through the cracks? Take a look around. Its possible. They may be talented but its their fault they copped out not the industry's. Balls

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mediocrity? . I dont accept it. It just shows me how to create something new which isnt.

Do you know how many people I know who make brilliant stuff persevere and dont fall through the cracks? Take a look around. Its possible. They may be talented but its their fault they copped out not the industry's. Balls

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This is the type of attitude that is causing fractions.

Why be stand offish. Why be holier than though.

Arrogance, ego and greed are the soul destroyers in this industry, and I allways thought that techno drew the most intellectualy interesting people to it, so aren`t we above this type of behaviour?

The whole system trys to beat people down, so why add to the beating. To people from your effective "tribe".

The industry will only stay this way if we let it. Times have changed and we now don`t have to deal with the coke munching suits anymore. We have our own pressing plants, distributers, mastering rooms etc. It is possible for us, in the techno scene, to illiminate the arseholes, and to deal with each other in an open way.

At least I have to believe this, cos otherwise, what is the point?

YOU = This is the type of attitude that is causing fractions.

ME = I thought it was the guys with ponytails

YOU =Why be stand offish. Why be holier than though?

ME = Who? Me? how am I being holier than who? Stop blaming others for the mess. Lets get off our holes and sort it out.

YOU = Arrogance, ego and greed are the soul destroyers in this industry, and I allways thought that techno drew the most intellectualy interesting people to it, so aren`t we above this type of behaviour?

ME = What are you on about? If its not about money then why are all these amazingly talented people throwing in the towel? Here we are in the age of the internet and people who make good tunes cant get them heard? Bollox.

YOU = BThe whole system trys to beat people down, so why add to the beating. To people from your effective "tribe".

ME= Coz people neeed a slap around the head sometimes :lol:
I'm not beating anyone down who doesnt give up. Yet why should I hold back on slagging talented people who 'get pissed off' and give up like some one described? If these amazingly talented people kept sticking it out they would shine through eventually aslong as they didnt take their eye of the ball. Good music is good music irregardless of the 'business bullshit'. Try harder.

YOU = The industry will only stay this way if we let it.

ME= Techno will only stay this way if we let it. Boring that is. Go nuts with yours tunes for **** sake. People dont want to hear half the stuff we come up with these days. How is this the industries fault?

YOU Times have changed and we now don`t have to deal with the coke munching suits anymore.

ME= We never were pop artists.We never did rub shoulders with these people did we? We are technoists or whatever... the supposedly anti-commercial side of dance
What techno artists do you know who are manufactured? None. Sure some people manufacture themselves but at the end of the day they are doomed to be slightly richer but less attractive to the average techno bod.

YOU = We have our own pressing plants, distributers, mastering rooms etc. It is possible for us, in the techno scene, to illiminate the arseholes, and to deal with each other in an open way.

ME= and what do you think this boards purpose is for? :lol: :lol:

And you prove the point I made succinctly. Thank you.