These threads always open a can of worms :lol:
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These threads always open a can of worms :lol:
I can guarantee that overall sales, of all types of music, on all formats, everywhere in the world, are MASSIVELY down. Not just a little, but loads. But this doesent concern me, cause thats all to do with pop music being shit really. So there could still be room in there for say techno to be shifting more than years ago - but somehow I doubt this. I work in a major record store (they should really be called CD stores now though), and we used to get in a fair bit of techno on vinyl, including the odd really good release, now we dont even stock vinyl, and the only technoish CD's I can think of in the shop are a copy of Fear and Loathing 2, the Stacy Pullen fabric CD, and I think that might be it actually.
The dissapearance of all vinyl, and techno cd's, has all happened in the last 2 years by the way.
On the commercial market…
I have done a bit of recent research on EMI and what’s been going on with its business structure and its recent fiscal problems. Download pdfhere if your interested.
Something worth pointing out
Where global music sales have reduced the actual overall consumption of music went UP. There are more people are listening to more music than before which is due to illegal downloads making music more accessable. Unless the way they collected this data is wrong or they fiddled it.
35-45%Quote:
Originally Posted by Francisco Scaramanga
quote your sourceQuote:
Originally Posted by The Divide
This is from conversations I have had with various distributers, artists, and label owners.Quote:
Originally Posted by Internal Error Records
I`m not gonna put anyone in it by quoting directly.
Look into it yourself and you will see.
Why would I say any of this for fun?
I`m trying to point to the fact that we need to get ahead of the game here, personally, I don`t care if everyone goes down with the ship.
I would prefer people communicate and sort it out.
big shop i work at: (not much techno)
all sales have increased year on year (for past 7yrs i've worked there). music market still has growth over last couple of yeas but only a small %, the dvd market has exploded (games to follow apparently...tho i dont believe this). dvd now makes the most money in the store, when it used to be cds.
cd singles are now almost defunkt, most people won't pay £4 for 3 tracks when they can pay £10 for the full album.
vinyl sales have increased as well, but the sheer number of vinyl released nowadays (all genres) means we dont stock much techno anymore because there's not enough room. plus we send them all over to basement traxx ;) would be interesting to see if paul is willing to say how well sales are going
This is all good and noble. And Im not point fingers at you. But many people here think there own experiences and 'what they have seen' applies everywhere. This type of information can do more bad than good.Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
Maybe its my fault for being a business analyst, but i just dont see much 'fact' on this forum that is certifliable fact.
I would sincerly like to see an intelligent split between personal opinions and what people claim to be facts(even if they are facts in his/her own world).
Talk to people, get the facts about the industry.
Your in the states right, you of all people should know the plummet of the vinyl industry
actually, as a professional, you have to ask if the person you are requestign information is qaulified to render an accurate appraisal.Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
the fact is. running a label is easy as hell. its just alot of work. alot of EASY work.
people think they are doing enough to get the job done, but get unsatisfactory results and then blame the industry.
so no, talk to a bunch of people who speak from their own experiences does not render an acurate appraisal of the state of the industry.
Quote:
Maybe its my fault for being a business analyst, but i just dont see much 'fact' on this forum that is certifliable fact.
So pepole who live this sh1t and report about what happens around them aren't allowed to state what they see, hear and experience as fact? Where do facts come from in the first place? The people who are there doing it and involved with the scene. Its up to you to weed out things that aren't relevant to you and your part of the world. This site is sort of a global gathering, theres people on here from many continents so what may be fact for someone in London may not apply to someone in Philly.
This isn't a corporate meeting at Sony, nobody is even getting paid for their time to post here let alone research things in depth to include quoted "facts" in their posts. Those doods at corporate labels probably make half of their sh1t up to please their bosses anyway! We don't need to please anyone here, some people probably even like to piss each other off ;)
once again. im not going to defend tha value of USABLE information.
enjoy your communal mis-information. good luck making important decisions with it.
So talking to shops, distributers and label owners isn`t enough?Quote:
Originally Posted by Internal Error Records
does santa have the answer then?
ok ok. im not hear to bash individual experiences. and yes talking to these organizations is very good for getting THEIR information.Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
but i would like to see people stop aplying their expeirences to the whole world.
this forum is a global community. and from my first day here i have preached that the techno scene is banging and doign very well. but, thats my experience.
Yes but to appraise any situation then you collate as much information form as many sources as possible so as to get a good average.Quote:
Originally Posted by Internal Error Records
THEIR information as you put it, when applied as a whole, is THE information.
Who else do we talk to, encyclopedia salesmen?
bus drivers?
I fail to see your point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Internal Error Records
Its in the pdf I just posted. See pdf page 11 onwards (sourced in the footnotes) :study:Quote:
Enders report, ‘Piracy – Will it kill the music industry?’ concluded that “digital piracy cost about 35-40% of the reduction in the size of the global music market last year”. Enders Analysis – Europe March 2003
Ill post some of them here...
Quote:
Edison Media Research - Survey found that the heaviest downloader’s have the most negative influence on sales. Among those who have downloaded more than 100 files, roughly 16% of respondents, CD purchases dropped 61% from last year. A year ago heavy downloader’s purchased an average of 28.9 CDs a year versus the current average of 11.3 CDs. - Edison Media Research – May 2003
Quote:
Global music sales fall by 7.6% in 2003 – some positive signs in 2004
• Global music sales down for a fourth consecutive year
• Illegal file-sharing hits markets internationally
http://www.ifpi.org – the recording industry world sales April 7, 2004
Even company looses at the MCPS and PRS society...
There has definitely been a decline in sales within the commercial market. As for techno, I wouldn’t know where to find the info but I would say its more than just a spreading out of sales over loads of smaller independent labels. Why? Because when I was young I knew loads of people personally out every weekend spending about 40-80 pounds on new records. Everything was new and exciting. Now I don’t see as many young people into it nowadays. You look at the crowds in Leeds and generally speaking it’s mostly the people who were into it 5 + years ago without as many new faces. Surely if the distributors are going down then its a sign that they aren’t moving as many units as they should.Quote:
However the combined effects [for company losses] of:
Flat or falling audio-product volumes in the UK and continental Europe
Flat or decreasing dealer prices
Lower service income in(..)
Lower interest income(..)
Have put considerable pressure on the MCPS’ financial possition - MCPS newsletter – Sandra Cox, executive director
However, the global markets picking up again both in CD sales and legitimate music downloads. See google for more :study:
There are very little official facts or figures you are going to attain on the record industry and its sales, most of them are not specific enough and few of them are ever very up to date. The best information is usually the off the record stuff from distributors or shops, as that's the most accurate and up to date stuff.
Three years ago I was in the planning process of starting a distribution company, however within a short enough time I realised what a bad idea it was. For my market research I had to get my facts and figures of how other distributors were doing, how much they sold etc. It was at this stage of the game that I realised what a brick wall I was up against in terms of getting proper statistics back. Here in Ireland there were little recorded statistics on record sales, in fact the best study I could find was an overall chart of annual CD sales in Irish shops over the last 3 previous years, which was pretty useless to me.
My next step was to speak to distributors in Ireland and find out some figures but they were generally very guarded on giving out information on anything relating to their business or even vague indications of unit sales. In one sense I suppose they could have viewed me as a potential competitor in the future, however if sales or business were in as high a position as, say 3 years previous.. then I'm sure the unwillingness to divulge information would not have been so strong. I think this kind of thing is pretty much across the board, no-one wants to go opening their mouth when things are tight, and there's not a whole lot to be shouting about anyway. Likewise any of the independent or government bodies set up to do studies or offer information on the industry, weren't very helpful.. the simple facts were that no-one had been commissioned to do studies and of the ones that were being carried out, not much co-operation was coming back (apparantly) from the relevant sources or businesses.
Upon shelving my idea of distribution, I have instead worked in a record shop for the last three years. In that period I've noticed a marked drop in sales, not just in techno.. but across the board, right into other forms of music and into the CD market. I hear lots of facts and figures from other distributors, shops, labels and so on and none of it sounds particularly healthy at the moment.
With regard your average punter coming into the shop, few of them actually buy in bulk anymore, many of them are only looking for particular records or producers and are unwilling to accept anything else (mainly Picotto/Fergie techno converts), and others again just aren't into it anymore.
2005 has been a dreadfully slow year for releases so far, however I don't see this as a bad thing, maybe it means that some people are thinking a bit more about what they put out, and maybe other labels are just realising they can't make much money at it anymore.
I just have to comment on that, which in my opinion is just something people seem to keep repeating without even bothering to check the facts (that is: listening for yourself).Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
There are so many different ways and settings when encoding MP3s that you cannot just generally say "MP3 is wack". I've started to convert my vinyl records to MP3s and used a whole lot of time investigating different encoders and possibilities, using Genelec studio monitors and high-quality headphones to A/B compare the original vinyl sound versus high-quality MP3 sound when done properly. I decided to go for LAME for encoding using Variable Bitrate MP3s which average at 256kbit/sec and go as high as 320kbit/sec when needed, and really I can't hear any difference between the digital file and the original vinyl at home or when playing PA.
Point: there's no single "MP3" format, some encoders and lower settings are wack, but it can be used to procude high-quality files.
Then there's the Ogg format...Quote:
Originally Posted by interferron
Not so widely supported, but allegedly "better".
I can't really comment as my speakers aren't good enough.
interesting opinions. i dont know whats right and what isnt.
Ill ask my mates who run a record shop how sales are. they sell vinyl exclusively.
i personally hope vinyl doesnt die out. its ace.
If we are going to talk about changing the format we may aswell talk about doing it to its full capabilities
Hows about some 24 bit 96k audio :love: when high speed internet takes off. Could take music beyond the usuall 16 bit 44.1k CD audio :love:
Music in surround sound anyone?
Mp3s = I would like to see the death of those things in the next few years if the internet speeds up
after speaking with variosu djs about this EVERY ONE SAID FUK THE CD....
so i challenge all producers that think cd is the way to go to start doing CD ONLY releases and see wher you get.... i recon 1 of 2 options ------ 1. yall force folks to use cd or 2. yall not sell very many.........the latter i think.
every dj ive spoken too is a vinyl luver and will continue supporting it until something better comes out(the cd is not a better tool for djing as discussed by many djs at the weekend)
People as a whole resist change.
unless its a change for the better.Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
ive changed my setup about 4times since i started djing and will again no doubt.
but not for summin thats gonna push my style backwards....cds would just not suit me and would hamper me getting on with caining it....for the folks that play a record for 3 mins then blend the next one in the cds will do em...and the cds with automatic beatmatching will suit them even more i recon. go for it folks....
That`s a slightly childishly biased opinion.
To imply that you can`t make rapid mixes with CD is a typical comment from someone who fears change, and I know your not like that.
And auto beat matching would be fantastic.
Put in CD, wait a few seconds and BAM, you can mix, and get on with the important business.
Just you you spent years learning to beatmatch, there`s no reason to poo poo a device that would take out the bullshit mechanical process, to give more time for the creative part of mixing.
Change will happen.
Vinyl will not be able to sustain the market.
So when no labels can afford to do vinyl any more, then what do you do?
It won`t happen immediatley, but to think vinyl will just go on forever in some kind of cosy unreality like The Good Life, is very naieve.
Some DJ`s are so up their own arses with their self inportance that they forget people like to hear a tune, rather than a trick or something every 5 seconds, and a billion tunes per hour.
A combination of all styles is the answer, and as with new technology, it needs to be brought into the current situation, because the world is leaping forward, and techno DJ`s are standing still.
I don't see it happening anytime soon. As long as pressing plants can keep their heads above water, and that some labels still want to press vinyl in the knowledge that it mightn't make them too much money (if any at all) then the future is safe. Vinyl has a collectible value for music enthusiasts, and if it was a great record or better still, a rare one.. then it may hold some kind of value in 10 or 15 years time.Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgyedgy
If Jeff Mills, Autechre, Aphex or the next big thing released 'the' album or single of this decade next week, there would be widespread demand for it on vinyl, far more so than any other format. That isn't going to change, many people don't give two hoots which format is technically better, indeed many people are not even aware which may be superior. When push comes to shove the romantic side of people comes out to support vinyl, it's the real deal.. a large object, a chunk of hard plastic.
I think if music became better then the demand for vinyl might improve, right now much vinyl out there just isn't value for money.
Steve, you are not a DJ. I don't see how you can poo poo an active DJ who most obviously prefers spinning vinyl, and sees no reason for change. I'm afraid you are the ignorant one here, because you are not listening to or trying to understand someone's reasons for wanting to use vinyl. Outside the subject of techno, where it's at, or how groundbreaking musically techno sets are or can be; there's a physical action of using vinyl that people enjoy. Respect that.Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
honestly cds could not support some of the stuff i do.........Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
ive actually tryed and they just dont work. the only sensors on cd deck ive saw is a backwards forward sensor(seeing if the platter is moving in either of 2 ways and speed of movement).....that does not represent a true vinyl, you cannot vibrate a cd deck and create the same noise as a real deck..
saying that cds will have some advantages but none yet that really take my fancy.
i cant see the differnece in sales figures if it was on cd either.....why would more folks buy more cds to mix than vinyl.....i suppose cds are cheaper to produce but i dont think they would end up selling any cheaper. Plus piracy would take a huge dent out the sales....
Well maybe one day vinyl will die but ill own enuf buy then to keep going. I just like it....... but i dont think it will die, i can remember the boy in our local decks shop tellin my mates this excact same thing about 10yrs ago, so they went and bought bmx's instead....now 1 o them has decks...wished hed never listened to the boy in the shop.
i agree about some djs being up ther own arse...... its great when i come along and pull them out. ;)
and yes alot off techno djs are standing quite still, this has nothing to do with not using technology, they just dont push the artform as much as it should/could be.
I`ve been DJing for years and years, I choose not to anymore.
I own a stupid amount of vinyl.
I`m not poo pooing any DJ who plays it. But making up stuff about the versatility of other formats is a bit duff.
I`ve tried the other forms of technology as I try to keep abreast of it, and not only have I found it to be more creative and innovative to use, but also you have the option of using a non degrading high quality source of media.
I understand the reasons for people wanting to stay with vinyl and it is mostly resistance to change.
I love vinyl, but I am under no illusion as to the longevity of it beyond a collectors folly in the future.
I understand fully the shit of mp3. You get no product at the end of the day, and it is nice to have something for your money. Something tangible. Hence at the moment CD is the only other option, and the current technology finally brings it alongside vinyl (only fear of technology is holding it back a bit, in the same way that classical instrumentalists feared the advent of the electric guitar etc)
I`m not saying people need to burn their vinyl, but honestly there needs to be a serious collecitve chat by people in the industry to face the current problems, and to assess what we can do to help the future of techno.
Their shoudln`t even be an argument of vinyl versus CD, it is a useful technology.
It`s techno for gods sake, we`re supposed to be dealing with the future here. More people should be using both formats than currently are because of uninformed stigma.
All change is resisted, look at anything new, it always was resisted at the start, someone has to play devils advocate to bring things forward. What I`m saying is not to harm the scene in any way.
why would the cd be better for the techno ecomomy/sales?
if a single cd was £5 as was a single LP.
then folk would still buy the same amount......only thing i can see happening is more profit(dunno how much more the artist would get) as production costs would be well down....but i really do think piricy would totally fuk shit up, Were all going to have at least 4-8mb connections soon(prob higher the time for vinyl to die, if it did).. so, stealing tunes would be so easy, why buy?
it would be nice to think that folk would support ther artists and buy the orig but folk just like stuff for free. i can just see some folks "tune collection" if this was to happen...theyd have about every tune ther is and wouldnt have bought any of it.
Thing is that some people use vinyl in different ways, cuing up with vinyl can be a lot faster for some people or indeed more natural. As for talk of auto beat matching, I really don't like that idea I have to say, will these contraptions play your set for you as well?!
The problem with decks or more than 2 decks at once is that it encourages the DJ to play the same sounding records for the whole set, and puts showmanship above the music in most cases... finding that happy medium is obviously desirable.
I definitely think people need to look for that alternative to a third deck, be it a laptop, CD deck, a microphone or whatever! And to introduce more elements other than a loop that's the same as on the decks. Many of the current techno icons for fast mixing don't play inspiring music, others pretend to play on a massive DJ set up when they are doing little more than pressing a few FX and playing the same record again and again... we have to move beyond that and make things (and the quality of musical delivery) genuinely more exciting again. There's a whole world of music out there, techno needs to be less incestuous.
Ok well your figures for CD singles are based on the majors, and not on a system that could be set within the techno market.Quote:
Originally Posted by gumpy green
It would be much easier to run things internationally as shipping would be so much cheaper. And curently vinyl shipping is sick. Causing places like south america to be a no go area (without accounbting for their crazy tax as well)
Production costs are lower, I`m sure we could sell the CD`s for a lower price than vinyl, and still improve the amount that goes to the artist.
As fo piracy effecting things.
Erm
It already is, you can go to soulseek and find anything that is on vinyl pretty much straight away.
So changing to digital format I don`t think will make a huge difference to the scurge of piracy.
Come on, lets not get immature here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunil
Beat matching is a mechanical skill, and is not what mixing is about.
A machine won`t be able to eq for you, or choose the tune, or choose the right place to mix depending on the way the crowd is going, or make little tricks that edge on the tension or whatever.
If you slapped a piece of vinyl straight on the deck and it was in as soon as it hit the platter, imagine how much of a cool mix you could do.
It makes the important part of mixing easy. Lets not pretend here that beatmatching is some amazing feat.
hehe, no-one's being immature.Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
Cuing up fast is a skill in itself, why not recognise that?
Ever heard of Jeff Mills?
I don't feel I'm talking to someone here who DJs themselves or thinks like a DJ.. that's fine though ;)
Beatmatching is part one in the cycle of mixing a record. Nobody said beatmatching is an amazing feat, but it's a basic skill that DJs should have to attain.
about the cd sales thing...yeh i can see shipping tons of records would cost alot so yeh that is defo a good thing. but even at that i get alot of stuff from abroad and the shipping aint too bad....comparred to foks like juno- SHOCKING IMO, ive only ordered from them a couple of time cos of this....how much money they couldve made from me if ther shipping was cheaper.
ive had stuff over from germany that didnt cost too much, like 15 records costing maybe 7-8 quid for postage. but yes defo would save some money for folks selling/producing records.
but cmon surely the piricy thing will fuk shit up.....sure ther are foks dling loads of illegal tracks but ther arnet playing them out(mostley), djs are still buying records to play out, it would only be folk dling em to listen to..
if it remianed strictly wax then djs have to buy tracks..
about beatmatching....that is a dj skill and yes could be replaced but then whers the fun.....its so pleaseing to have held 2 tracks togther whilst equing mashing up effects all at the same time....iITS WHAT IS ABOUT, amanual skill.
leave the automation to live sets......
im totally with you about adding some other stuff to the dj setup......i plan on doing that sometime in the next yr or so....got a su700 that i think could work rally well with the deks. wanna be able to add my own vocals and noises over some tracks, think this may work well.
but ill still be keeping it all manual.
is this still going?
i cant believe how some people just wont accept the argument Steve is putting over here, especially regarding sales, the mans speaking truth!
as for the technologies, damn, they are here already, so why do people talk like they are waiting for aliens to land with these new cd decks? the new technics and pioneers emulate a turntable 100% and thats the truth... 100 total english %... there is nothing any dj on here or anywhere could not do on it compared to a proper technic... apart from something like shaking the deck and getting the feedback, which im not sure why anyone wud want to do anyway really, especially in a packed club and risking the needle jumping, but anyways.....
can we move on people? can those who are afraid of new technologies and who are happy to sit in their bedroom on a heap of vinyl in 5 years please just accept that this change will happen, it already is but i mean one day itl b here, and vinyl will no longer be the primary format for techno releases, regardless of how many friends u may have who claim its still alive and kicking.... and can those who do embrace this change just errr i dunno... keep embracing it?
one thing you cant do is
needle dropping.
thats wher you hav stickers on yer record to guid the needle to the excact spot you want. hence droppin it right in where you want. that is an art in itself nevermind what comes after it. i suppose you could do it with cds if you could tell them the excact time to go to but this would take longer than lifting the record and droppin it on...but then again not many techno djs can be arsed learning shit like this.
ill await to see this change and its effects...i for one think itll damage the sales but then again i could see this as a good thing, folk wont be in it for the money....., then only folk with the passion will do it, maybe less release but higher quality.
All this crystal ball gazing annoys me. Many labels lose money already, what happens if labels make better records? They could sell more, right? Why do we all assume that vinyl will just crumble and that'll be it? That every single label going will just go "Yeah, we've had enough" and stop pressing vinyl? Many labels lose money anyway, but continue regardless. Some labels I'm sure are selling more records now than they did when they started out. CD and vinyl sales are down, and by that reckoning we could say CDs are on their way out too, couldn't we? (there are some people who already say this)Quote:
Originally Posted by eyes without a face
People don't have to embrace CD decks fully. There's no doubt that they are useful machines, but not everyone needs or wants them to perform. Not everyone would enjoy the clinical nature of auto beat matching for instance, however they might like a CD deck just for playing their own tracks, alongside decks.. why can that not continue unchanged, I don't understand? It doesn't have to be one or the other, discard vinyl or else you aren't embracing the future.. that's rubbish.
i dont mean discard it or fall at ur peril literaly, but one day, and i mean literaly here, vinyl production will stop... there will be one release that will be, and im talking officially in the eyes of the labels, manufacture's, the last record pressed to vinyl for distribution in the global market, there will b people pressing bootlegs up and what have u, and this maybe not in our how do i put it, "techno timescale" it maybe years after we all think, and sales will switch over completely to CD.... i just mean its silly and very strange to really not realise this will happen one day, and as ive just said it may not happen so that it affects us, but it will happen!!!..... i for one hope i never have to switch over to CD djing totally but if it has to be it has to be, im a total vinyl addict and cant even imagine it but over the next few years who knows what will happen... who knows how even further developed will technologies become in the switch over to the more digital age?.... time will tell
one thing you cant do is
needle dropping.
thats wher you hav stickers on yer record to guid the needle to the excact spot you want. hence droppin it right in where you want. that is an art in itself nevermind what comes after it. i suppose you could do it with cds if you could tell them the excact time to go to but this would take longer than lifting the record and droppin it on...but then again not many techno djs can be arsed learning shit like this
but this is real old skool hip hop stuff and ok u might enjoy doing this and u may do it really really really well, but practically, in a packed, techno club full of ur average punter whose out to have a good time, this is going to go relatively unoticed, unless u are at the top of ur game like someone like Dave Clarke where ur everymove is pretty much under scrutiny during the whole set... it makes sense to put more effort into the basic practicalities of djing such as beatmatching etc which again im sure u do just fine im not questioning any or your's or anyone else's skills for that matter, im a dab hand on the old turntables if i do say so myself but its not the be all and end all where im concerned its whats coming out the speakers at the end of the day....
which is pretty much what the whole thing boils down to for me..... whats coming out of those lovely speakers :)
I`m leaving this now as it`s really not going anywhere.
I hope that things can be worked out by sensible people within the industry.
I hate it when I see statements like this.Quote:
ill await to see this change and its effects...i for one think itll damage the sales but then again i could see this as a good thing, folk wont be in it for the money....., then only folk with the passion will do it, maybe less release but higher quality.
I think most of the money motives have gone from techno, I doubt there are many people in it purely for the money, if you wann make money, then do house.
However artists are allowed to be recompensated for their work, and if you expect quality techno to go on being made to allow you to play records, when the artists recieve no recompense, then you are under an illusion.
The person that sells the vinyl at the shop gets paid, the person you buy your petrol from to drive your car to the record shop, gets paid, the postman who delivers the records to the shop gets paid.
Why shouldn`t the artist get something for the work he or she is making that gives these other people their jobs.
Regardless of the argument, that shouldn`t even be an argument, but more of a discussion to solve the problem.
Change is coming, and if not coming, it is most definitely needed.
The whole system is creaking now.
We currently sit in a state of limbo.
Vinyl`s future is uncertian.
No one really knows which format will be the dominant one in the future, and most people won`t even discuss it.
So currently we sit in this kind of wierd situation, where all the distributers and labels, are kind of scrabbling and shuffling on this sinking ship, to get to the highest point, no one has an idea about what to do, no one is even bailing any water out, and some people have their eyes closed and deny even the excistance of the approaching water.
Will things settle down to a reduced level and just stay that way?
Will there be a second dance explosion?
Will people suddenly reject all the new technology and go back to vinyl?
Will the market finally crash and only those who have jumped to the awaiting speedboat survive?
Who knows, but things need to be acknowledged for us to even begin to move ahead.
TBH I don't care which way it goes, but I ain;t ripping everything to CD and buying CDJs like those till they become standard in clubs I play at.
I'm considering the final Scratch option, hopefully they got to AIF format soon, then my decision will be made. Till then I'll buy vinyl.
And even after that, I'll buy vinyl.
But hey, my opinion doesn't count for shit really.
Yes it does Craig. Everyones oppinion counts.
I think the final scratch (and serato) option is the one everyone is forgetting about when mentioning cd's. CD's are just a delivery format. You put the audio from cd's onto your computer into whatever format you want and then mix however you want to. Is that logical or am I dumb or something? The skill and feel of using vinyl doesn't disapear and you can intermix with old vinyl favorites straight off the decks.
Greg, that is exactly why I'm considering it. I take the format with me wherever I go, it's easy, and it incorporates vinyl.
Just MP3 is a shitty format.
no this is not limited to hip hop......its them who(mostely) are doing it but its part of the art of djing....thats my point, not many in techno really want to do anything but blend/mix.....Quote:
Originally Posted by eyes without a face
they seem to forget that thers a pure art form sitting right in front of them.
for me djing aint all about the music, its about the manual skills that you use to "paint your picture". Some set could sound equally as good without tricks and just tunes but then i dont think the dj has been working his art. Same with production, thers tunes that are simple that sound good.
anyway i agree, this topic is really going no wher now....we shall just have to wait and see what the future holds.....hopefully it all.
i didnt say it was limited to hip hop dude, i said it was old hip hop shit... which it is... people using it in techno have developed the idea from seeing the hip hop kids doing, so to feel that its doing something new is not right, because its not, its impressive sure and probably a wikid feeling to pull off, ut its not doing anything to further djing and there are so other many tricks that dont take as much pre-thought i.e putting stickers on ur records, that make the room go off just as well if not more
but i agree this post is going nowhere, im out!
Cue points?Quote:
Originally Posted by gumpy green
Have you ever actually used a CD deck? Or are you just guessing...
this is going to go relatively unoticed, unless u are at the top of ur game like someone like Dave Clarke
HA HA HA HAAAAAA
cds.. if you like em. use em.. if you dont, dont.
but will ppl stop trying to convince everyone else they are right ?
would it kill someone to accept others may feel differently ?
jesus... this argument has been done to death..
GIVE IT UP & GO DO SOMETHING LESS BORING INSTEAD :)
Mate, you sound almost as if you're actually scared that these computers are gonna come in and steal all your DJ gigs!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunil
Lets be clear: I'm comfortable in the knowledge that there are things I am always going to be better than a computer at doing. Picking the right records, reading the crowd, knowing when to drop the bass back in for maximum effect etc. Whatever your little tricks are, their your little bits of artistic flair, and a machine has no hope in hell of emulating them.
All Steve is saying is that given the knowledge of the relative BPMs of two pieces of music, a computer will be much better at getting them playing at the same speed, and in time - and will do it much faster than anyone here.
Exploit the computer for what it's good at - number crunching (no one expects you to do DSP in your head, do they) - and free up more time for you to do the fun stuff. Unless you find beatmatching fun, in which case go ahead, enjoy.
No, who is he?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunil
For sure man, you're right.Quote:
Originally Posted by perpetual
It is pointless trying to argue a case of differing opinion... I just think some people have missed the point of what's being said. No one is trying to plead superiority, just acceptance.
Haven't really been reading all of the messages in this forum but I have a question. Was this message presented for test marketing purposes and or approvals? If so here is a :clap: !Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidTrash
No seriously. If you gonna get it, get it. I might buy one for portability purposes but vinyls sound different then a cd. More authentic so it will always be better :cool: