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sorry bro, but bwahahahahahaha you really think the chinese would go out and buy original copies of techno records in mainland china? the bootleggers would build a lathe out of balsa wood and cut copies themselves before ordering 12"s ;) and how would you even ship to mainaland china???? dang bro you are optimistic and that is cool, but mark my words: china aint gonna convert to wax.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heroes
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechMouse
:doh: ummmm no dude, go do your homework. vinyl sounds like that because it needs a poreclain preamp.
Yes, you're right - my mistake. Same net effect though.Quote:
Originally Posted by deafmosaic
Also, have a read of this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/1xtra/1xmusic/r...eringp06.shtml
You have to make compromises with your sound when cutting a vinyl?Quote:
When you're working digitally, pretty much the same limitations apply to the sound of the engineer's mastering workstation as to the final CD.
With vinyl, the limits aren't so obvious and there are certain things which will sound fine in the studio but not so great when transferred onto a vinyl master.
For example, really extreme stereo effects on bass sounds and kick drums don't tend to cut very well.
That means that there may be compromises which will be needed when mastering for vinyl and that's why you need to find an experienced engineer and to be there while they're working.
Surely not...
Ah, here we go... the definitive word on the subject from SOS.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug0...rmastering.htm
Quote:
Vinyl is an unforgiving medium, and mastering for it is extremely difficult. Its dynamic range is a puny 50dB or so, even with decent vinyl, compared to the 80dB or more we enjoy with even the most basic digital media.
Quote:
Bass is also troublesome. Bass waveforms have a very wide excursion and, with stereo, if the left and right channels are even slightly out of phase, the stylus can 'jump the track' as it tries in vain to follow different curves for the right and left channels. We take concepts like stereo bass for granted now, but back in the days of vinyl bass had to be mono.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARK EG
How exactly do you propose to stop MP3's?
It's like trying to ban radio, or television, or little mobile phones.
Technology exists, there's no point fighting it, you have to move with it.
BTW, Mark. You need to keep in mind that not everyone is submitting to MP3. I've always been a huge supporter of audio compression tools to facilitate the transfer of music and started doing it with my own as soon as I had the means. Just about anything I've ever touched, finished or not, has been put up on my webspace or soulseek at some point. So, with some artists, there might be a bit of an ideological difference. With the way I view MP3, I'm sure I could be viewed as that annoying kid like the DJ who will play for free and undercut all those hard working DJs who are so much better and need to make a living. The free exchange of information has been an ideal of held sacred now for a majority of the time I've been on this earth. Now, I certainly don't care and can respect if an artist does not want their work spread around for free. But, what I find frustrating, particularly in the techno scene, is the "with us or against us" attitude that seems to go along with it. And considering I can't think of 1 techno artist who hasn't, at some point in time, illegally sampled copyrighted material, the stance against MP3 and filesharing is often borderline hypocritical. The way people can stop being twats is through trying to find a means to work with advancing technology rather than fighting it. Working with it will encourage people to be fluid and possibly discover someting completely new and beneficial in the process. Working against it will inevitably lead to rigidity and eventual frustration when you find that, for the most part, a hugh number of visible people simply are never going to give a **** whether or not you can put food on your table because of your music. Especially if they think they can do the same thing themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark EQ
On a grassroots level, try starting a space for MP3/WAV/whatever sales. Hell, at this point, I've blabbed about the idea enough that I'd be willing to help set the thing up. Wit the piracy that does occur, what does anyone have to lose?
This reminds me of the whole "rebelling" thing that gets mentioned.
People, musos and dj's across the scenes and genres are rebelling against the bulsh!tness associated with the established, even "exclusive" "we won't listen to or play it unless its on vinyl" mentality.
Shit is hitting the fan. In a big way.
It will come down to adapt and evolve or be prepared to sooner or later become obsolete.
The kids of today didn't grow up with records and tape players so there is no connection on that level. What makes everyone think that they will suddenly drop their cd's, ipods and whatnot to hunt down (actually go out of their way, find and fork out for stupidly overpriced) pieces of black plastic which they can't even hear conveniently? Cus it sounds "warmer"? Cus the established labels fear piracy?
Last time I checked, soulseek had sh!tloads of copied vinyl only releases. Why is that? Maybe cus people don't want them on vinyl but thats all they are force fed with. Now theres something to rebel against. Those guys are probably thinking "f*ck you guys. Shove that vinyl in your 40 year old asses, we want something better"
Sorry but with techno's tiny audience and no airplay or decent media presence there's only one way to make it ACCESSIBLE again for the next generation. Adapt and evolve.
Techno was all about futurism. What happened to that? Oh yeah, it got arse-raped by money grabbing labels and dodgy distributors. "Buy vinyl, its cool. Buy lots of discs with loops and you can be cool too. Oh no, people aren't dumb anymore. The drugs have become weak. They want proper music! What to do now? Lets blame something that has nothing to do with the actual problem. Yeah, lets blame cd's, mp3's, filesharing, technology, the kids of today, your mum, his mum etc...."
That sort of attitude is just too RIAA styles for my liking.
SORRY about the drunken rant guys. No more for me tonite ;)
Never really thought of this. Good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Komplex
the rest of your post was a bit strong, but I can`t say I disagree.
I guess that post had an in your face "edge" ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
I'll tone it down from now on before someone takes it the wrong way.
There's no reason why a shop couldn't be setup strictly DIY either. It's just a question of looking into the economics to figure out how much you can charge for mp3 and how economical it would be. The costs would essentially be bandwidth, space, service charges for credit cards. The bandwidth and server space issues are easy enough to deal with since the cataloging of files can be distributed over different servers on the net which would be invisible to an end user. Since the style of music here is largely a labor of love for many computer geeks, it's possible that you'd find a good number of people that would give out server space for next to nothing if not free, or for the ability to legally play the songs on their server in their home. If you use something like paypal, from the quick look I've done, they charge about 3% per transaction plus a $0.30 transaction fee. So, the question from there would just be figuring out an implementation that would make it affordable. Itunes sells tracks for $0.99.
You could be competitive with using something like paypal through using a points system where people purchase X number of downloads in one shot to keep the $0.30 paypal transaction fee from eating into costs too much. Then, there is also the option of selling your music through already existing services as well like Itunes. Ihave not found what the exact cost break down is for Itunes as far as payment is concerned. But, one advantage they do offer is that they will hit up that Ipod market and there is DRM in their formats for people who are concerned. Hell, one could always take advantage of both. Those are just two means I thought about this morning. There are likely more. Honestly, I think the hardest thing would be the same as the past, letting people know that your music exists. And there is no reason why, in the process of going the digital route, one would need to stop cutting vinyl either.
this is a very good point. i don't dj. i have no real alliegance to vinyl. but if i want to actually buy the music i like, i ain't got a choice - it's either pay for a medium thats expensive and a hassle to use, skank from p2ps, or go without. course i could rip the vinyl, or download as well as buy the wax, but i shouldn't really need to do that. plus i'm wasting a load of money on materials that i don't actually want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Komplex
is it all that surprising that techno doesn't much when the vast majority of releases are aimed only at djs, as opposed to music fans in general?
so .....
we need to decide on a standard cd player
so everyone cen get used to it
and we can introduce the skill factor again
because we will all need a benchmark that we understand.
true?
so .....
we need to decide on a standard cd player
so everyone cen get used to it
and we can introduce the skill factor again
because we will all need a benchmark that we understand.
true?
oh man get drunk more often.Quote:
Originally Posted by Komplex
I saw plenty of peeps usng vinyl and/or dex with laptop. We gave out a lot f cd promos ourselves to fans. But we had plnety of vinyl to give away as well..
No there isn't a reason, but if you like to sleep at nights it could be wiser to make a non-exclusive deal with some existing smaller digimusic shop - there's probably more profit for the label in it than if trying to run it yourself when you calculate all the costs. First of all the amount of work when building a working and reliable (plus secure, it's peoples money we're dealing with here) digital music shop isn't a joke. For example, there were three of us working on our Foryourears.com and it took us about 6 months to put together the first version. Even PayPal payments aren't that easy when done properly (real-time payments).Quote:
Originally Posted by tocsin
Hosting (bandwidth, backups..) is going to cost you. You can distribute files, but that requires more technical solutions (how to make sure files cannot be downloaded without payments). Credit card payment option is probably going to cost you $$$ per year. Add paying taxes to the calculation and remember to pay GEMA or a similar copyright association so they won't have to shut you down.
The most hardest thing however is the support and maintenance. Something like this requires someone to look over the shop every day - the hosting company might have problems, a hard disc can break down, there could be a programming error, someone doesn't know how to download and is pissed if you don't reply in a couple of hours max. Adding new stuff and producing content takes time. The point being: if a customer pays money to download tracks, the thing must operate 100% reliable. And when it's people + computers, things are going to break down and need immediate actions, mostly every day.
Forgot one point: there's going to be fixed costs even if you don't sell a single MP3. So it cannot be calculated quite that simply.Quote:
Originally Posted by tocsin
Is there actually anyone out there who can't get their head round a CDJ?Quote:
Originally Posted by davethedrummer
Well, I never implied it would be easy. But, that shouldn't be a factor. Regardless, I don't think it's quite as dificult either if you take advantage of what is already available. For example, I stumbled across a PHP script that creats links which both hide the true location of a file and expire. It can also be set up to e-mail such hidden links to a user witha time limit and IP address restriction once a successful Paypal transfer goes through. The files can be stored on any server. The script costs a whopping $24 as I recall. Pursuing the existig digital distribution is a good idea too. But, in the quick scan I did for them, most seem to want exclusive deals. For example, CDBaby.com will submit your work to a number of them. But, this costs $40-$50 initially and they take 9% of every sale made. So, the digital stores they supply must take less or they'd make no profit. I just haven't seen an exact number/percentage figure for what Itunes take out of a sale. The only problem I see with the paypal route is in a technical implementation to make it profitable and competitive. If someone buys one song for a buck and that's it, paypal is going to take $0.33 off that dollar. So, if you set something up along a points type system where the initial minimum payment was $5, and you charged $1 per track, Paypal would take $0.45 out of the transfer and, dividing the remaining cash by 5,you end up making $0.91 per track which is exactly the same range as you'd get through something like CDBaby without the larger startup fee. As fr distributing and hosting the files, how many people here have webspace they'd be willing to donate? I know I've got plenty.Quote:
Originally Posted by SYMPTOM RECORDS
It's still doable. It's just a matter of people putting their heads together and testing systems out. The nice thing is that, when it comes to e-commerce, lots of people have forged a path for it already and have made their code public. Nothing works 100% effective ever. But, even taking the negative into consideration, I just don't see how it's a losing situation.Quote:
The most hardest thing however is the support and maintenance. Something like this requires someone to look over the shop every day - the hosting company might have problems, a hard disc can break down, there could be a programming error, someone doesn't know how to download and is pissed if you don't reply in a couple of hours max. Adding new stuff and producing content takes time. The point being: if a customer pays money to download tracks, the thing must operate 100% reliable. And when it's people + computers, things are going to break down and need immediate actions, mostly every day.
And look who's taking the lead. From the Truelove Newsletter:
Music Downloads are becoming an ever more popular way to purchase music. Now through our online store
as well as the vinyl and Cds on sale you can purchase full stereo Mp3's of new releases, as well as
rare and previously deleted items, for only 99p. Newly added Mp3's include the extremely rare
Magnetic North and brand new releases from leading Techno labels Stay Up Forever, Hydraulix and RAW.
If the Mp3 you after is not available don't worry! New Mp3's are added all the time to our database
so keep checking back regularly to see if it has become available.
********************
>> The all new Digital Collective
The Digital Collective Series is finally here. Exclusive to truelove.co.uk this series will showcase
our finest djs and forthcoming releases across our various labels well ahead of release date.
Each high quality, full stereo, un-edited MP3 mix is between 30 and 45 minuets long and is great for
getting you warmed up for your night out or to hear future releases available to buy in the mix.
Each mix costs only £3.49 which is great value for money and will feature as many as 15 tracks
seamlessly mixed by a leading dj from the techno scene!! Thats less then 25p per track!
Digital Collective 1.0
First up to launch the series is Aaron Liberator.
Aaron's style of music covers everything from house to hard techno, whilst keeping it funky and
trippy with a freestyle attitude.
To Download or preview goto www.truelove.co.uk/digital
of course not ( well maybe.....)Quote:
Originally Posted by TechMouse
but what i mean is in the clubs.
cd players really vary in "feel" and design and i would very much like it to become a bit more standardised so i can get used to one type. and really get into it.
i use cds a bit these days so its becoming an important subject for me.
I hear ya there. Probably when all the companies get their shit sorted with vinyl feel cd decks (with the platter, like the pinoeer models). Things will be easier because they will all funtion the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by davethedrummer
But from a personal point of view, I think the Final scratch and Serato option is better for traditional dj's. It's the same way as using regular turntables, same skills but you hook your laptop up with all your tracks in WAV format. So it will be pretty much laptops replacing a crate of records but everything else remains the same. Instead of digging in the crate you load up the next track and its back to mixing the traditional way.
Cd's are cool as a way to sell music. The physical product is there, and so are the means to distribute it (post/shops etc). Its flexible, you can play them wherever (cd players everywhere) and you can rip it to a laptop for mixing or use a cd deck IF thats your thing. With mp3 you still have the problem of downloading a large file which is lame if people have slow conections...
I've nothing against mp3s. I listen to them myself. It can be great use to push your music to unknown places. We are not being arsey or tight with vinyls. I just got a problem with people ripping each other's harddrives for songs and never buying music. Thats not right. Don't buy it if you don't like it that much, but if you do, you should buy the music. Mp3s are great for lives and rare stuff that is impossible to get. And vinyls are worth it for the 'warm' factor. Without a doubt. Anyone telling you otherwise is not right.
Fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by davethedrummer
Though I reckon 9 times out of 10, if a club is gonna fit CD Decks they put in Pioneer. This is certainly the case in any club I've ever played round here. There's differences across the various different models but by and large all the Pioneers have the same modus operandi.
So, I'd go with that.