calling all producers-hardware vs software

Me to, as a rule yamaha sounds are really thin and GM sounding, unless it`s on some of their more "analog" sysnthesising stuff.
Of course if you do a lot to it with processing then it can be good.
But then it`s not sounding good, straight out of the hardware, as was the whole argument in the first place.

For me...
I have never been able to grasp working with sound on a PC. When ReBirth first came out I was given a copy, I loved it. I sat there day and night climbing all over it, going WOW!!
BUT...
The whole time I wished that I could have all the machines in front of me so I could touch them and adjust things two at a time, more quickly and instinctively. So I went out and got me some hardware and have used harware only ever since.....coz I just cant get into using a PC for anything other than recording and mastering Live Jams off the machines.

It is important to not look at the sound on the screen while creating or mastering.....only listen.

I am not against the use of the PC for creativity.....it just doesnt work for me.

I think people use the screen thing as an excuse.
The PC is more acccessable, so it`s easy just to set things up when uninspired.
Hardware is no more intuitive than pc, especially if you have good controllers and such, but when you use hardware there`s more commitment to what you are doing at the time, because it`s such an efort to set everything up.

The point is, neither is better.

Do your thing in whatever way suits you and recognise that the best method for you, is the best method for you, and that`s about it..

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Originally Posted by stjohn

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Originally Posted by grain

and take over the world!!!!

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so what are we doing tonight????

same thing we do everynight!



......

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:) :clap:

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Originally Posted by holotropik

For me...
I have never been able to grasp working with sound on a PC. When ReBirth first came out I was given a copy, I loved it. I sat there day and night climbing all over it, going WOW!!
BUT...
The whole time I wished that I could have all the machines in front of me so I could touch them and adjust things two at a time, more quickly and instinctively. So I went out and got me some hardware and have used harware only ever since.....coz I just cant get into using a PC for anything other than recording and mastering Live Jams off the machines.

It is important to not look at the sound on the screen while creating or mastering.....only listen.

I am not against the use of the PC for creativity.....it just doesnt work for me.

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With you there.

But then I bought a midi controller, and that changed everything.

i am loving all the info here guys. thanks a lot to you all ;)

yeah totally not feeling this new guy 'use the search option' thing. come on, i'm sure we've all been newbies before.

we're not a geeky tech site with an exclusive 'club' at the end of the day ;)

let's help each other!

i think there has been a lot of interesting sayings made here. lots of people have said cool things on a thread that i had started. it may be boring to some, but everyone does not have to be reading this, but i think the reactions here speak for themselves

Haven't read the thread, but best thing to do to start off (assuming you have a sequncer on your PC) is get a small MIDI port and a MIDI keyboard and download some software as well. THe MIDI port will leave room for expansion if you want to get more hardware, another keyboard, reverb or something.
The keyboard will make producing much quicker and easier, then you can start building up your software and hardware on top of an already operational studio.

Eventually i'd have a PC with Cubase SX & Reason for the sequencing & soundbanks, along with various plug-ins, a Mac with Logic for the compression, bus routing, live recording etc and have it all linked up to a Mackie mixing desk. Well, that's how i was taught anyway, i'm still a bit of a n00b really.

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Originally Posted by ADMIN

yeah totally not feeling this new guy 'use the search option' thing. come on, i'm sure we've all been newbies before.

we're not a geeky tech site with an exclusive 'club' at the end of the day ;)

let's help each other!

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yeah let it lie then man, i apologised and offered my opinion, so lets stay on topic hey?

good point by the way whoever said about the almost underlying feeling that you have to use one or the other exclusively

Personally, i think some of the hardware just rules, anyone heard of Moog?
Some of the warmest bass lines i've ever heard.

As a producer i'd certainly be looking at using both, the more variation you have in software and hardware the more inventive and creative you can be right?
Each have their own attributes and having the choice of both leaves your creative ability much more open.

Bottom line is you need a decent PC, plug-ins & Keyboard to start imo, then start building your rack mount, get your drum machine, 303 etc etc. For me, that would be my natural progression for building my studio.

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Originally Posted by audioinjection

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Originally Posted by el salvador

hey maybe i buy a book if people are hostile. things are very different here

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its not that people are hostile, its just that this topic has been discussed and argued many times.....its more of a preference between the two, you'll basically have to try both worlds in order to find out which you like best ;)

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Just to play this to death a while longer lmao I must agree with this comment try both its a producers own preference has to what is best to use, personally I think the best of both worlds is the best option a nice midi connection into software. I mean with Reason which looks like hardware anyway you can always rewire it into cubase so with the combination of VSTs and such its limitless to what you can do by what you get your hands on. << Theres a tounge twister and a half

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Originally Posted by rhythmtech

whatever suits your wallet and working space... this is an arguement that'll go on forever but the most common answer is pick the best of both worlds.

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What he said.

software users smell of poo.

Anyone who uses anything other than a hollow log, a skull, and a thigh bone, doesn`t know the true meaning of music.

if software is so ****ing great then how come i have yet to see a guitarist up on onstage with a laptop and a copy of virtual guitarist 2.0?

no offence.

but playing with reason.... wheres the orionality in that. its like 1,000,000 producers having EXACTLY the same figgin studio setup. Baffles me.

Make your own drumkit. Buy some shitty mikes. Record you and your mates beating each other and sucking dogs off througha boss distortion pedal. get em all to buy a drum machine each - create some ckerazy Bidule/Reaktor setup for your inputs - JAM. Modulate off each other.. like, whatever.

Pre packagded off the shelf shit can suck my cock. If you want your music to be inventive your ways and means had better be too.

CANT WE GET A FRIGGING EDIT BUTTON ALREADY IN HERE MANG?

lol

we're still on this topic? haha

Also. There is nothing more depressing than someone making music all by themselves in a little room having their little head fried by a cathode ray tube. What a ****ing techno cliche.

Techno was around before pc's & computers & software became the norm and it will still be around when they run their course (WHAT!)

Anyone ever listen to Konono no.1?

cathode ray tube? people still use them?

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Originally Posted by massplanck

no offence.

but playing with reason.... wheres the orionality in that. its like 1,000,000 producers having EXACTLY the same figgin studio setup. Baffles me.

Make your own drumkit. Buy some shitty mikes. Record you and your mates beating each other and sucking dogs off througha boss distortion pedal. get em all to buy a drum machine each - create some ckerazy Bidule/Reaktor setup for your inputs - JAM. Modulate off each other.. like, whatever.

Pre packagded off the shelf shit can suck my cock. If you want your music to be inventive your ways and means had better be too.

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Inventiveness comes from the mind. Whatever tool you use to get the job done is almost irelevant.

I`ve heard mindless uncreative shit made in the best analog studios available.
I`ve also heard amazing original creative stuff done with really cheesy bog standard software.
Who cares, it`s the mind that is interesting.

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

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Originally Posted by massplanck

no offence.

but playing with reason.... wheres the orionality in that. its like 1,000,000 producers having EXACTLY the same figgin studio setup. Baffles me.

Make your own drumkit. Buy some shitty mikes. Record you and your mates beating each other and sucking dogs off througha boss distortion pedal. get em all to buy a drum machine each - create some ckerazy Bidule/Reaktor setup for your inputs - JAM. Modulate off each other.. like, whatever.

Pre packagded off the shelf shit can suck my cock. If you want your music to be inventive your ways and means had better be too.

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Inventiveness comes from the mind. Whatever tool you use to get the job done is almost irelevant.

I`ve heard mindless uncreative shit made in the best analog studios available.
I`ve also heard amazing original creative stuff done with really cheesy bog standard software.
Who cares, it`s the mind that is interesting.

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this must be true. anyone can buy the paint, but only the artist can truly paint the picture. the medium is the tool, but it must first come through the mind

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Originally Posted by el salvador

this must be true. anyone can buy the paint, but only the artist can truly paint the picture. the medium is the tool, but it must first come through the mind

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Nice analogy.

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

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Originally Posted by massplanck

no offence.

but playing with reason.... wheres the orionality in that. its like 1,000,000 producers having EXACTLY the same figgin studio setup. Baffles me.

Make your own drumkit. Buy some shitty mikes. Record you and your mates beating each other and sucking dogs off througha boss distortion pedal. get em all to buy a drum machine each - create some ckerazy Bidule/Reaktor setup for your inputs - JAM. Modulate off each other.. like, whatever.

Pre packagded off the shelf shit can suck my cock. If you want your music to be inventive your ways and means had better be too.

---

Inventiveness comes from the mind. Whatever tool you use to get the job done is almost irelevant.

I`ve heard mindless uncreative shit made in the best analog studios available.
I`ve also heard amazing original creative stuff done with really cheesy bog standard software.
Who cares, it`s the mind that is interesting.

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Is this the same dirty bass who just posted that cubase was a stale, and boring and an uncreative environment to work in.

Yes, but then if you use the same pallette of paints again and again, you will get bored and need a change to refresh you.
You world is not black and white.
It`s shades of grey.

stale for me, I`m sure plenty of people get pleasure out of it still. I never said it was stale and uncreative for everyone.

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Originally Posted by el salvador

this must be true. anyone can buy the paint, but only the artist can truly paint the picture. the medium is the tool, but it must first come through the mind

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Beautifully put. Always envied the latin ability to say things like that and not make it sound like I copied it out of a hallmark greeting card.

Personally, I play the spoons.

Dig my cutlery funk, you sassy ass bitches...

sooooooo last year, im on three sets of forks these days :eyes: :cheer: <<<<hahahaha, wtf is that :lol:

A cheerleader?

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Originally Posted by The Divide

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

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Originally Posted by massplanck

no offence.

but playing with reason.... wheres the orionality in that. its like 1,000,000 producers having EXACTLY the same figgin studio setup. Baffles me.

Make your own drumkit. Buy some shitty mikes. Record you and your mates beating each other and sucking dogs off througha boss distortion pedal. get em all to buy a drum machine each - create some ckerazy Bidule/Reaktor setup for your inputs - JAM. Modulate off each other.. like, whatever.

Pre packagded off the shelf shit can suck my cock. If you want your music to be inventive your ways and means had better be too.

---

Inventiveness comes from the mind. Whatever tool you use to get the job done is almost irelevant.

I`ve heard mindless uncreative shit made in the best analog studios available.
I`ve also heard amazing original creative stuff done with really cheesy bog standard software.
Who cares, it`s the mind that is interesting.

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Is this the same dirty bass who just posted that cubase was a stale, and boring and an uncreative environment to work in.

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Okies well what I was trying to say I don’t really agree with what you put there about how the tool used is irrelevant.

Massplanks talking about building your own setup, were it be MAX, Reaktor or whatever. That is inventiveness/creativeness and comes from the mind in itself. That’s going to add/subtract/compliment/ruin the whole creative process and add to whatever it that your making. I fyou master that you could end up building something customized to work in a way which suits you and probably does things you cant do in the conventional sequencer. Thus making the tool relevant imo

Same goes for studios, hardware, etc. I am certain that if I approached a track using purely hardware my overall outcome would be different. Im still going to have the same creative drive, same ideas underneath but the process will be altered. I may be more or less likely to have happy accidents, or do something I havnt dont before. Now that may or may not be positive but it will affect what im doing. That’s why I think its important to have a mixture of everything, hardware software, etc. Then theres the technological aspects on how sounds changed depending on the tool...

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Originally Posted by The Divide

taken from the electronic music 411 forum....

the sound of analogue equpiment including EQ, changes very noticably over even a few hours due to temperature changes within a circuit.
Anyone who has tried to make tracs on a few analogue synths and make them stay in tune can tell you this,you leave a trac running for a few hours come back and think Im sure I didnt **** write that,I must be going mental!

this affects all the components in a synth/EQ in an almost infinte amount of tiny ways.
and the amount differs from circuit to circuit depending on the design.

the interaction of different channels and their respective signals with an analogue mixer are very complex,EQ,dynamics....
any fx, analogue or digital that are plugged into it all have their own special complex characteristics and all interact with each other differently and change depending on their routing.
Nobody that ive heard of has even begun to start emulating analogue mixer circuitry in software,just the aesthetics,it will come but im sure it will be a crap half hearted effort like most pretend synth plugins are.
they should be called PST synths, P for pretend not virtual.

analogue EQ is currently impossible in theory to be emulated digitally,quite intense maths shit involed in this if youre really that interested,you could look it up...good luck.

your soundcard will always make things sound like its come from THAT soundcard..they ALL impose their different sound characteristics onto whatever comes out of them they are far from being totally neutral devices.

all the components of a circuit like resistors and capacitors subtley differ from each other depending on their quality but even the most high quality milatary spec ones are never EXACTLY the same.

no two analogue synths can ever be built exactly the same,there are tiny human/automated errors in building the circuits,tweaking the trimpots for example which is usually done manually in a lot of analogue shit.
just compare the sound of 2 808 drum machines next to each other and you will see what I mean,you always thought an 808 was an 808 right?
same goes for 303`s they all sound subltey different,different voltage scaling of the oscillator is usually quite noticable.


Then there is the question of the physicallity of the instrument this affects the way a human will emotionally interact with it and therfore affect what they will actually do with it! often overlooked from the maths heads,this is probably the biggest factor I think.
for example the smell of analogue stuff as well as the look of it puts you in a certain mental state which is very different from looking at a computer screen.

then there is analogue tape...ah this really could go on forever....

im quite drunk cant be bothered to type anymore...
so yeah,whatever, you obviously dont have to have analogue equipment to make `good` music in case thats the impression im giving,EVERYTHING has its uses .And not all anlaogue equipment is expensive you can still get bargains like old high end military audio devices,tape machines fx etc just go for the unfashionable stuff.

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I suppose it all depends how you work.
I already have everything clear in my head, so I just need the quickest method of translation from thought to sound.

However if your production is more a product of serendiptiy then you may need to have more things in front of you to bash and twirl.

Horses for courses, find or make what is comfortable for you, and then use it. There is NO best method.

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

A cheerleader?

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i asked for that didn't i :oops:

I`m not sure you asked for it.
But it`s what you got.




Is that what you want?


Cos that`s what`ll appen.

im not sure now, can i phone a friend

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Originally Posted by Centurian

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Originally Posted by el salvador

this must be true. anyone can buy the paint, but only the artist can truly paint the picture. the medium is the tool, but it must first come through the mind

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Nice analogy.

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very true

so whats better oil based or water based paint :P

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Originally Posted by audioinjection

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Originally Posted by Centurian

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Originally Posted by el salvador

this must be true. anyone can buy the paint, but only the artist can truly paint the picture. the medium is the tool, but it must first come through the mind

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Nice analogy.

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very true

so whats better oil based or water based paint :P

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Blood

If it is the suit that makes the man,
then it's the techno making the artist.....



pffff!!

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Originally Posted by eyeswithoutaface

no one bashed him get over it people **** hell you girls ;)

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a bit off topic perhaps, but can we refrain from using "girls" as an insult around here? some of us ARE women and i, for one, am not fond of my gender being used as an insult...

now back to your regularly scheduled programming...

boom tss boom tss boom tss boom tss

get back in the kitchen Shiva and cook me some dinner ;)

Yep, barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, chained to the cooker, seen but not heard.

yeah, and ive got a big pile of ironing needs doing here so hurry up with the dinner


:roll: ;)

oh dear

chicken please!

Make sure my beer is open and on the table for when I come home.
And make sure it`s cold, dammit!
You don`t wanna be locked in the coal cellar again do you?

I like to be dominated by women.

hey come on guys, the ladies are needing a break, and i think we should all give them one

oh yeah, i thought magda sounded cool when i have heard her play