this is a personal dig but im surprised some distributors are going broke when the owner of them manages not to pay staff on time or SEVERELY underpays staffQuote:
Originally Posted by MARK EG
sorry for the negativity
Louk
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this is a personal dig but im surprised some distributors are going broke when the owner of them manages not to pay staff on time or SEVERELY underpays staffQuote:
Originally Posted by MARK EG
sorry for the negativity
Louk
peoples jobs are at stake here, a whole network of vynyl industry, i see no support here from the big guns, only death. :evil:
well i hope all your distributers and people who work hard to sell your vynyl support your comments.
promotion i personaly have busted my ass to sale my label by promoting it, im not greedy, i dont want to sale a few thousand units im quite happy with a smaller amount. why coz im 100% underground dats why! i see greed here, people who have over played themselves hmmmmmm!
im trying to think of ideas to help distributers, and its working actually ive already worked my ass of to help my own.,yes mark the internet is the place for promotion and networking,and im sorry if distributers have gone under its probably the fact that they av brought it on themselves through loss of control.sending multiple free units out all over the place for a start,postal costs,etc etc etc it all has to be paid for
mabey people like you who get there post box filled with promos every week should pay a fee. lets say a membership type of thing, a small fee out of your rather large wages each year my son.to the distributer, all you big guys get it to easy, well i suppose its like footballers more succes u get the more free goodys ay!, ;)
look im not having a go at you mark, but instead of blasting all over the place vynyl is dead, cant you at least try a few things to help distributers ?
i no im gunna get shot for this post but i dont care im free to voice my opinion.
;)
now im leaving this thread to cool off! you have touched sum weak spots !
i will cum back tomorrow. i will think hard tonight of more things i can do as an artist to help my distributer ;)
Just thought to express my own personal opinion on things and get back to the point regarding the scene as a whole (vinyl vs cd is irrelevant compared to good vs bad music).
Ive been thinking this over the last few months and at the minute I think radio stations are the missing element. The clubs are there, the record shops are there, the labels are releasing enough stuff but the problem for me as a buyer is that Im too damn lazy to sift through the bad music to find the good tracks. Internet radio is giving me the chance to listen to lots of material while I do other things at home (ie not having to spend hours in a record shop digging crates) and most of them broadcast track info and web addresses for the tracks they play. Obviously the clubs are playing tracks but my idea of a good night out isnt leaning over the dj booth doing a bit of trainspotting.
When I look at successful scenes I think of the UK rave scene 88-92 and more recently London (DnB, Garage, Grime). Both these scenes had pirate radio stations to reach a wider audience. I really think theres no point in doing a techno/electro only pirate station as the listenership would be too small in any one area, so internet radio is the way to go (with ID3 info broadcast). Then listeners can buy directly from labels and we can wave bye bye to the distributors. PnD deals have flooded the market with sub-standard product and with the possibility of MP3 being the format in the choice in the near future, its actually going to get even more flooded. So for me, its the radio stations that will have to be the 'filter'.
Any opinions welcome...
am fully in agreement, i am one of them, but i do have a lot of business knowledge in this area, and no real ego or super-id to cloud my judgement. i have just seen and heard of a lot of the reasons why many companies failed, and i have learnt to not make those same moves.Quote:
Originally Posted by MARK EG
EVERYONE who is involved in this INDUSTRY should be a decent business man, even artists etc. then the frameworks that build up will be strong and not fragile because a buch of yes-men agreed to things they shouldnt have, labels didnt get complacent cos they're on a pnd, and artists dont go 'oh, i just do the music side of things'. no you dont, you all want to get paid!! you need to know your shit so people dont rip you off.
i think the people who have returned to selling vinyl are mostly solid, but still there are too many releases for the amount of people buying the tracks. some companies will still die, and new ones will surface. others will become benchmarks and wont shift for years and u will get to know them very well by the noise they make.
even if vinyl is dying, it wont be dead for 20years yet, it will take a long time, and i am thinking more and more about that point in time. but for now, STOP TYPING AND GO OUT AND BUY SOME BLOODY TECHNO :) (and i mean buy!! not blag promos!)
tight control is needed, random splash marketing is not the answer, its wreckless, and foolish. the big distributions who av gone under have just got to big for there boots and paid the price. mabey its the end of record shops to, online marketing is so much more convient to people, or mabey the record shops themselves like many should go online.
already i can see this post is helping people. wikid! ;)
more gentleman`s please in distribution, :cool:
Ok, then I guess I'll kinda repeat myself. For label owners, what is the objection to MP3? Is it a promotional issue? Piracy issue? What? The way I see it, especially for acid, is that the labels already have websites that people visit. If you're selling records for a buck or two, how much money is made through using vinyl in comparrison to something like MP3? Has anyone done a test with both? Given the limited run of vinyl anyways, I'd be inclined to think that more money is lost through not selling MP3s. But, that is an assumption of course. I don't even agree that vinyl is dying. I think it's already dead where I am. Record stores and distributors have been closing and I myself have not bought a record from any such locals in coming up on probably 2 years. I was the market at one point. The kid who would save up and blow all his money on $400 worth of records every month or so. Now I don't buy shit. If more labels actually had tracks I could purchase in digital format straight from aQuote:
Originally Posted by MARK EG
webpage, I'd be more inclined to buy it. It would even turn the tides on piracy since, a lot of the music I have pirated, I simply cannot find as easilly as I could in the past.
So, I can see the argument for distirbutors and stores being good since there is something tangible in their hands that people can see. A file isn't the same. But since so many techno labels that are good and relatively established are all run by artist's anyways, couldn't one arguably get more exposure just by hyping the site on something like a mix CD sold or given away at gigs? Wouldn't the ability to not deal with distributors and stores greatly increase the profits of the label? If I ran a label, I would be doing a test right now rather than hanging on to one thing. For a next release, I'd do the vinyl run and also offer the songs online in MP3 format. People will save as much as probably $6-$9 through buying the songs at the site and I Would have cut out my middleman thus making a bit more. Then, one could sit back and see how much they earn from digital sales and vinyl sales combined and see if it's worth making a choice for one over the other or possibly doing both. Hell, it could even be run
like the indie label approach where you advertise the price of the songs as available directly through digital on the record itself.
Sorry, I hit submit to soon as usual (I'm largely dependant on editing for boards). If online sales are working and the promotion is working, you will have a significant visual point for the music. From there it would be possible to work with other labels doing the same thing and set up your own virtual distro network that is run entirely on your terms with significantly less cost than using exclusively vinyl.
good points but you'd be surprised how much vinyl i actually buy. everyone thinks i and alot of dj's get shit loads of vinyl, but 1/2 of it is really bad and i make sure the labels that send me stuff i don't like know about it. sure alot of labels send me stuff, but i always try to review the records, support the labels and do my bit. you know, if the labels i really loved did a dj pool and charged a fee that covered the cost of the records AND postage i would have NO problem paying it.... but i really can't see this happening as most dj's really do think they 'deserve' these records. absolute bollox. but that's the way marketing works i suppose.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon connor
Internet Radio... brilliant. For years I've tried to sort this out for Blackout but i've either run up against a technical hitch or cost issue. Last week I sorted it out and now have a station ready to go, but just need a server.Quote:
Originally Posted by crbn
Again, cost comes into play. I really can't see many of the 'underground' sites having access to cheap servers. But every so often someone comes along that is really willing to help you for the love of the music. A bloke called Sinner put his heart and soul into helping me set this forum up. And this is such a great thing about this music - ppl are willing to help in the end. But everything is done off love and there's no hard cash involved and this is where we all slip up. We're all music ppl and we have no real promotion, or business or programming knowledge.
In the end, we have to learn everything ourselves, to make a difference. None of us have the money to put into real marketing. It's the same with distributors. It's usually a bunch of mates who get into music and really don't know the true ins and outs of business. That's why so many of them go down. And also why, perhaps, underground or new music finds it very hard to survive...
Just my thoughts...
This is just what I was thinking. If I could go straight to my fave label and d/l the mp3 rather than a) wait for the track to go on soulseek (not that i do this cause i dont) or b) wait for the track to come out on vinyl @ a record shop and then take 3 days in the post, then i would. It would be book marked and I'd check it out every few days.Quote:
Originally Posted by tocsin
Now this means EVERY techno label needs to get online and have an way of doing this. But to be fair, most techno labels just do not have a presence on the web, let alone have learnt how to create an mp3 download facility. This just isn't going to happen. The only way is a record shop that all the techno labels trust. But with Jetgroove showing that this is not going to be easy (anyone here trust them????!!), then I'm thinking that the techno industry is a long way off getting truly connected to the net...
this is something we are thinking of doing...we already have tracks unreleased on our site for d/l, but we are looking into how people can buy an Mp3 and i think this will be through paypal, which isnt really hard to set up, glad to see this thread is getting back on track aswel...some good ideas over the last few posts :clap:
yes but no. there are 6 or 8 decent sites already running where you can buy mp3s. rather than labels dealing first and foremost with distribs, it looks like they need to get their heads around this new sales channel.
those websites already sell tons of 'dj' music, it's just that most of it is house oriented first. there's nothing stopping the adoption of the labels i/we care about here; they just need to get out there. OR the distribs need to help them do so.
so far one of the only labels i can point to that's really doing this right is inigo kennedy's asymmetric. you can buy the whole catalog, in 256kbps files, at foryourears.com. i'm sure that slowly we will see more and more of this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARK EG
Sinner is the man! He hosts all of my sites! Truly a gem in the world rocks...
Check out his hosting site...well worth your money: www.prohosted.net
I'm sure many ppl would say the same thing. It's ppl like this we need in our industry.
ok for all you labels that wanna sell mp3's go to www.trackitdown.net
they sell hard dance (all forms) there brilliant.
If u wanna sort out distribution contact John (his emails on the site)
ive just sorted it our for the new release on my label so when its out i'll let u know how the mp3 thing works
Livesets.com Radio!
We are on the lookout for more dj's that can spin LIVE on our radio station.
In the new system we can give dj's access to the programming module. They see a complete calendar and they can fill in the times they would like to spin the decks. So dj's won't have to arrange a lot of things, just fill in your name in the calendar at the right time and you reserved the stream for that period of time! It's comparable with your Outlook calendar..
Just to make it clear, it doesn't matter where you live, as long as you have decks and a decent Internet connection
The requirements for playing at our radio station are:
- 14 kb/s upstream (normal cable / ADSL is enough)
- turntables connected to PC
If you are really interested or just want more information, email Desron desron@livesets.com, they are the administrators of LiveSets Radio.
------------
Mp’3 Advantages...
A) Cheap
B) Quick
Mp’3 Disadvantages...
A) Not everyone has a pc
B) People look down on digital software mixing when compared to turntables.
C) Lower sound quality!!!!
D) There is nothing that’s physically sold to the costumer
E) They can be easily abused by piracy
For me, the bad points outweigh the good points. I would rather be sold a cheap, well packaged CD that's been purchased online or in a shop. I would also like to see the new CDJ technology been a success. At least with CD, I would feel like I have purchased something which still has its 'quality' and its collectable value. I really don’t like the idea that you have to compromise your audio quality for the sake of ease however I do think that in some instances, vinyl is overpriced.
CD’s would make an excellent new format as far as cutting costs and ease of purchase is concerned. If everything is kept on CD’s, Mp’3 could be used to sell the product (and ffs none of that low 96kbs crap which you get on most online record shops, I hate that shit!!). As far as piracy is concerned, it would require a much more conscious effort for someone to start file sharing something from cd. Ok, it’s fairly easy to do but at least there’s a moral boundary as well as physical one. Little things like that can make a difference.
.......But to be honest I think the root of the problems facing this industry isn’t the format on which the music is sold on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
:clap: :clap: :clap:
The buyer doesn't necessarily have to buy mp3 but they do need to know the name of the artist and track name in order to track a copy down. Also maybe a web address for the artist or label so they can go and buy a copy on CD, mp3 or vinyl. Or Discogs is good for tracking down releases.
Internet radio at the minute can be good but the problem is that a mixed set done on CD or vinyl leaves the listener clueless as to what the tracks are called. So IMO a radio station needs to broadcast mp3 with track info and not vinyl, unless they are willing to go on the mic every five minutes to read track lists. Once the listener knows the track name they can then head off to buy it on the format of their choice: vinyl, CD, mp3, aac or ringtone. Record companies need only produce mp3s as promotional tools for the radio stations.
Ive been listening to these two stations (amongst others). Its a different style to the stuff thats discussed here (IDM, electronica, ambient) but they broadcast ID3 tags so I can find out who the tracks are by.
http://www.limbikfreq.com/
http://www.staticbeats.com/
Also check out the Classic Techno broadcast on Digitally Imported:
http://www.di.fm/
I reckon that the cost of internet radio needs to be footed by either record shops or distributors as they both carry material from a range of labels and of course have an interest in letting people know whats out there. Clone have CBS radio (not sure if it carries track info though) and I really think Warp's Bleep.com would benefit from a similar radio station showcasing the labels they distribute.
The one downside is that with unmixed broadcast is that it would be easy to record tracks from the broadcast. People in underground scenes need to realise that if they don't want to be listening to Britney and Aguilera in five years time, they need to support the labels, pay for releases and stay away from outfits such as Jetgroove/Audio1.
Your right that isn't the problem, lets leave MP3 vs CD vs Vinyl for another thread. For me personally the problem is getting to hear the best tracks when they are so hard to find in all the mediocre releases.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Divide
Any more opinions? Maybe we could put together a list of the real issues that are causing problems...
Actually, someone has already created the download facility for you. If you go to a place like http://www.hotscripts.com you can find a bunch of CGI/Perl, PHP, etc. scripts that are designed with the purpose of selling a library/catalog of digital media. Some are freeware. Some have a purchase cost. It wouldn't even be so much of a problem of every label getting online either. The downloads could grow in 2 ways:Quote:
Originally Posted by MARK EG
1.) Labels upload their new releases to anyone's server.
2.) People send you or someone else a CD of the new tracks. The new tracks can be ripped and encoded through a simple batch process that would take less than 10 minutes total on most of today's machines.
You wouldn't even need everything on one central server as far as the media is concerned. You'd just need a script interface that references an SQL database which holds information such as media links, account info, credits, etc. I've seen scripts that mask the media links as well so people can't download a track and then pass a link on to anyone who hasn't paid.
I really think this could work out for a number of you guys. Just from the action on this board, I doubt you have any shortage of visitors per month. Plus, since this is a network, once other labels start doing or attempting the same, you hook up with them in the database and grow that way. In a nutshell, you'd become a completely new type of distribution network that is run by the labels and artists themselves rather than middlemen.
To the person who brought up the negatives on MP3, I will respond to each point in numerical order.
I am willing to bet that, for the number of people who don't own PCs, there are a lot more people who aren't DJs but enjoy the music with PCs and no turntables.Quote:
A) Not everyone has a pc
People used to look down on techno music in general. I used to be one of those people. Who gives a rat's ass what other people may think? Techno didn't become what it was by sticking to the laws of tradition.Quote:
B) People look down on digital software mixing when compared to turntables.
That all depends on the bitrate setting. I'm usually hardpressed to be able to tell the difference once something is at 192kbit. I've never been able to distinguish a difference between 256kbit or 320kbit and the actual source material. We're not exactly dealing with string quartet music here. ;) This, however, can also be offset through selling CDs of straight digital audio on demand based on custom orders from the buyer.Quote:
C) Lower sound quality!!!!
This is really the only one I see being a big deal. Some people just like t have something to hold on to. Some people also, no matter what, will not accept digital format. But, they are now the minority from what I've experienced at least. So, the simple thing to do would to be continuing vinyl for a bit and seeing if there is still a demand. I think the sales of digital media though could help offset some of the losses or minimal gains one can get through dealing with distributors.Quote:
D) There is nothing thats physically sold to the costumer
Piracy is already very real without MP3s being available. Most of the techno MP3s I have are vinyl rips downloaded through filesharing networks. They've got the crackle and all. It just takes one rip to spread like crazy on any network and more than enough people are willing to do it. I don't see how offering mp3s for sale is going to increase the piracy that is already occurring. Rather, I think if the prices are right it would disuade a lot of the people who use networks to pirate material. You'll always have the pricks who just refuse to pay for anything. But, the copyrighted material I've downloaded has been either out of print or near impossible for me to find around my vicinity. In addition, no distributor from overseas seems to be willing to send me one or two records per order. If a true online store that was runs by artists/labels and specialised in techno truly existed and legally stocked what I enjoyed, I wouldn't be downloading shit illegally. I can afford a dollar or two per trackQuote:
E) They can be easily abused by piracy
considering it used to cost me roughly $6. Add that up for the labels/artists too. Rather than seeing a whopping $2-$3 per record bought by a distributor that is later sold, after shipping, promos, and every other cute means of screwing people is used, the label stands to make anywhere from maybe $4-$8 per record direct profit minus cost of the webpage, royalties to artists, etc.
I dunno. I have no idea which label is going to be the first to take this step that has already made an impact with vinyl. But, whichever one does, they will have my support and most likely a loyal customer.
cant be arsed to read all this, but i gota say a big part of the blame lies in the hands of the record shop owner. if you are going to class yourself as specialist, then you need to be clued up and be talking to the kids and findng out whats gona sell. not jsut whack your safe bets out and hope for the best. the record shop 'vinyl pusher' is the first link between that tune you heard in a club and actually getting your hands on the ****er, so its important for these guys to be in the know, and they perhaps would be if they listened to the clued up distributors.
DON'T EMPLOY ARSEHOLES should be the first rule
For a start shops should not have records on a sale or return basis. If they pay for them up front they are more likely to want to sell them. Better then that they take less and sell all than take more and return 90%!
Good point, maybe that’s to change for the next generation whilst the older generation avoid this pc voodoo malarkey. I am baised because most people I know from clubbing dont really like sitting around in front of pc's :lol: . Does give a CD a bigger market imo as the cd can be played on the pc.Quote:
To the person who brought up the negatives on MP3, I will respond to each point in numerical order.
I am willing to bet that, for the number of people who don't own PCs, there are a lot more people who aren't DJs but enjoy the music with PCs and no turntables.Quote:
A) Not everyone has a pc
I'm talking about regular punters in the clubs not everyone and anyone. There's less respect for someone mixing on a lappy than a deck. Whether you agree with that or not is irrelevant. It’s what the punters think that count. I personally like lap top performances, whilst a lot of people I know look down on them as lacking in showman qualities. Some even think its a hoax! haha. Believe me I am the one whos arguing for and not against on this one. I am just making a pointQuote:
People used to look down on techno music in general. I used to be one of those people. Who gives a rat's ass what other people may think? Techno didn't become what it was by sticking to the laws of tradition.Quote:
B) People look down on digital software mixing when compared to turntables.
Tis a minour difference but then again people dont spend hundreds of pounds of pounds on hardware equipment for it to be comprimised at a post production stage. Why take a step backwards to go forwards (MP3) when you can just step forwards (CD) :P :lol: Again I am biased! hahaQuote:
That all depends on the bitrate setting. I'm usually hardpressed to be able to tell the difference once something is at 192kbit. I've never been able to distinguish a difference between 256kbit or 320kbit and the actual source material. We're not exactly dealing with string quartet music here. ;) This, however, can also be offset through selling CDs of straight digital audio on demand based on custom orders from the buyer.Quote:
C) Lower sound quality!!!!
Bring on a super super fast wave file transfere's down an internet connection and I'm in on this one. As the technology goes forwards so should the music. Oh and while we are at it, lets up the sample rate and bit depth while we are at it! Oh and dont get me started on surround sound! Wooo hooo :rambo:
Like you say, if someone’s going to do it they are going to do it. It’s a matter of whether you can get the majority of people on board and all sharing the same mentality on the morals of piracyQuote:
Piracy is already very real without MP3s being available. Most of the techno MP3s I have are vinyl rips downloaded through filesharing networks. They've got the crackle and all. It just takes one rip to spread like crazy on any network and more than enough people are willing to do it. I don't see how offering mp3s for sale is going to increase the piracy that is already occurring. Rather, I think if the prices are right it would disuade a lot of the people who use networks to pirate material. You'll always have the pricks who just refuse to pay for anything. But, the copyrighted material I've downloaded has been either out of print or near impossible for me to find around my vicinity. In addition, no distributor from overseas seems to be willing to send me one or two records per order. If a true online store that was runs by artists/labels and specialised in techno truly existed and legally stocked what I enjoyed, I wouldn't be downloading shit illegally. I can afford a dollar or two per trackQuote:
E) They can be easily abused by piracy
considering it used to cost me roughly $6. Add that up for the labels/artists too. Rather than seeing a whopping $2-$3 per record bought by a distributor that is later sold, after shipping, promos, and every other cute means of screwing people is used, the label stands to make anywhere from maybe $4-$8 per record direct profit minus cost of the webpage, royalties to artists, etc.
this thread is devastated by numerous unmentioned differences being over looked.
many vinyl nutz are djs first techno heads second.
most vinyl labels cater to djs, not home listeners.
mp3s are ideal for home listeners.
and my favorite - as long as money is only being made on vinyl, then labels have no point to switch to mp3.
and so on.
its like many people in this thread arent speaking about apples.
Yes this kind of business is killing us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Larney
i think the problem here is that people forget that part of the reason that is distros go under and labels die deaths every day is that our genre is SO specialized that the average punter can't really get their hands on it unless they grab a dj mix or really search for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Internal Error Records
i think it's a damn shame that music goes unheard (and in the case of this particular debate) unsold to the general listening public.
i know i know...we're SO bloody underground. but we're so underground we're killing ourselves and our abilities to actually keep labels, distros and artists afloat in this crazy competitive world.
as long as labels ARE selling vinyl, then why the hell not get off our asses and make the tracks available to:
a) final scratch djs who want quality mp3s and will pay for them, and
b) everyday schmoes who dig techno but aren't djs and just want some good tracks (i know plenty of people in this category)
i am all for BOTH methods of distribution being put together and really broadening the influence of techno.
oh, and in reference to the djs first techno heads second...uh...gotta disagree there...i had to love it before i wanted to spin it.
just some random mouthing off in the wee morning hours...sorry if any of this was unintelligible...
Many of you have made very valid points in ths barrage of opinions, and I think its great that there is so much passion for the scene here. However I do not think one factor can be the underlying cause for techno losing its ground... I remember some1 blaming file sharing programs like soulseek, I would say its the total opposite, porgrams like that allow music to be heard by people wolrd wide, and with the use of a built in chat word of mouth spreads like wild fire... I have personally bought records that people recomended to me through slsk that I probably would not have found using convetional means.. Another problem that I have discussed with my friends is that techno has no image! We live in a world where sex sells and techno for the most part has no definitive image. Hip hop has the thug mentality, rock appeals to kids through its lyrics especially when in school and you are dealing with a mountain of changes in your body/life. Progressive has now been attributed to women in bikinis, and titties sell!! Even D n B has an image.. Unless you have very synthy techno, people just think of it as repetitve music... The answer is not putting a girl in a bathing suit on the cover either because the music does not evoke that image. The key is to give "kids" something that appeals to them to hook them in. Originally it was new music in a non club enviornment, it was new and different, and word of mouth worked very well. Now the scene is over saturated with tons of shit and it comes down to what will allow the fans to relate to techno? The scene is chaging faster than ever and techno which prides itself on being the most current as technoogy changes, seems to be the most left behind. Be it through only sticking to vinyl (which is very expensive now!!!!), its means of promotion, and even the mentality of tech heds themselves. I have been called a techno snob by friends in jest, but I know others who will piss on u if u dont have an awesome knowledge bank of techno.. how it works, where it came from etc... I know too many people who want to keep the scene "pure" and that in my opinion is a major factor hurting us. You need numbers to survive its that simple, going back to an abandoned warehouse with 60 kids.. (as fun as it would be) will not make the scene thrive. You need quality beats pumped out, an easier means to get it to others, and some type of image to get them hooked! Once they are hooked they will discover everything else. I personally grew up as a metal hed and hated all electronic music. I discovered core, and once I got bored of it I found techno. The thing about techno was that there were almost no limits to its sound, and now many things seem to sound the same.. :neutral: One thign someone mentioned about 8 pages ago was soem type of central location for getting music. I think that would be a great idea. This forum is great for fans and artists aliek to interact, I think the same should go on a more profesional level. Communication is key and if all the channels of production are in the same loop then the end product should e acomplished easier. Sorry for the long post, and believe me I have plenty more to say, but you all have covered many good aspects...
maybe techno would do better if it pushed itself back into the rave scene :-)
afterall, thats where the real dj money is anyways...
there is so many good points in this thread that its getting hard to remember half of them.
the different views on this thread could be split into a 40 room forum each getting there own area of intense concentration.
maybe the answer is for us to spend less time online and more time out showing people how much fun techno is!
wha da ? :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_bass
Quote:
Originally Posted by GothamGrooves.com
Well actualy it does have an image.
If we go back to where it all started,
techno was created in a fantasy world.
It's everything that's not real yet.
Like Science fiction. It's the human link with virtual reality.
It's everything that has to do with the mind,
and all things that exceeds the boundaries of science,
and beyond....
This also explains the thing why techno doesn't have a definite form. Technology and science always develops. It's a matter of time and human evolvement.
Many kids are now in the hype of Playstation and computer games and all.
These things are created with the same intentions of how we want to create techno music.
So there is your image!
that was almost poetic :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritzi Lee
I think the point raised about the imagary of techno is very valid. Techno seems to have lost its way a little, lost its vision. Think of early Rhythm is Rhythm cover artwork and 313 compilations, URs Rings of Saturn and so on. It'd be good to get back to the visual side of things. Electro has a style and visual language but techno has forgotten its. I know things evolve and move on but the imaginative visuals of techno have been lost.
Another thing regarding the quality of the music thats out there, but probably not on topic >>
I'm always impressed by how supportive DnB heads are of new producers. Check out Dogs On Acids production boards, Spinwarp or google for DnB Production:
http://www.dogsonacid.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4
http://www.spinwarp.com/
There are discussions on arrangement, sound design and so on. Maybe it's because its a more popular style (??) but there's also more of a desire to help each other out and forward the scene as a whole. Every techno board out there has its own Production forum, but as a whole they're not up to the same standard.
i dont know. now a days, to me it seems techno is obcessed with being 'dark' and 'moody'.
dark and moody dont lure girls into parties.
I like your use of the word 'lure' :twisted:Quote:
Originally Posted by Internal Error Records
Dark 'n' moody might not but a great mood for weekly parties (esp when here in the UK most of our weather is dark n moody), but I like the dark n moody vibe. Think Bladerunner, Matrix, Dune and so on. HR Gigers stuff is good too. Its not going to get the furry bra Ibiza crowd though. ;)
That is why we all like it, especially since we are already into the scene, but do u seriously think that will entice many more people to come? The image you described will keep them into the music once they understand, but dont forget many people can be simple minded and you still need something to hook them in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritzi Lee
No, that's why the computer games do have more succes then techno.Quote:
Originally Posted by GothamGrooves.com
The kids see what's happening. It's like people lost the ability to use their fantasy.. And our job is to stimulate this need. We have to help the people to see why techno is interesting...
Like 'crbn' told: Artwork with a story inside is one way to boost it up a little bit. Or using computer generated movies, or even games. Simple things. And that way to make the connection with techno music, the producer 'has' to make something good.
totally on that level man, i no exactly where you coming from, already i have plans in process on this. time will tell, . ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritzi Lee
why then is it not possible for the distributors to sell records directly to the public thus meaning records will not be getting lost or sitting in record shops with no possability of getting sold eg a record shop selling underground records with no history of any proper sales of that genre.Plus there must be a way of doing this either putting shop services on distributors websites or distributing to the correct shops with good buyers of underground music
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy west
What you describe is called "just in time"... The problem with it is that you cant make vinyl one at a time because it is too costly, so you have to make a run of a certain amount you think will sell. Secondly there already are websites that distributors sell too that you can buy vinyl from that sell directly to the people... As far as getting lost or stolen usually there is insurance that covers things like that. I really dont know the underlying cause of the problems on their end are? Maybe the industry is changing so fast and they were so set in their ways that they were not able to keep up with the new ways customers shop?
within legal terms,
Distro's sell wholesale to shops. Shops sell retail to Consumers.
There is more paperwork/tax stuff to do with retail.
A distro can theoretically get by with a few dozen clients while a shop would need hundreds, if not thousands or clients.
Many consumers arent even aware of many distro's existence.
Just industry talk.
:clap: :clap: :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by Internal Error Records
a lot of vinyl lovers like vinyl because of the medium itself.
i doubt a cd dj would say they love the feel of a cd and they
love handing the medium itself. its just a means to playing
the music on them.. in which i think will die out in favour of
digital formats.. i would go digital before cd anyday.
and the vinyl lovers will still stay with vinyl because they
love the medium as well as the contents.
as far as mp3 goes i think mp3 is crap and is the next technology to die.
there are loads of lossless encoding techniques coming out :)
and with broadband connections getting bigger and bigger and
storage space getting more and more we should be able to download
and store every track as raw pcm's anyway
:lol:
mp3 is crap, but there is a lossless audio compression format available.
:lol:
theres no more paperwork in it, except vat which some shops sort out anyway, and i do see massive benefit selling to individuals. especially, and exactly becuase, when the market is so flooded with similair sounding releases, shops might only take single copies of each title and never restock on a majority.Quote:
Originally Posted by Internal Error Records
speaking as a distributor, if some shops dont want to deal with you, in a reaction to a glut of similairity from techno in the market place and dwindling interest from the general public, but other individuals will place several hundred pound orders, and the mark up on individual sales is better for me AND cheaper for the customer, it can only work well.
KNOW YOUR DISTRIBUTORS KIDS ;) :lol: LOL
ok mp3 might be old, but its the most widely used format atm. from top of my head i can think of mp3, wma, ogg, atrac-3, flac, aac, mpc & monkeysaudio. these are already out, yet i dont see many people sharing these files online and those new digital players tend to only play the first 3 anyway. also wouldnt giving raw pcm's out just be same as selling original master tapes. high bootlegging maybe???Quote:
Originally Posted by Milesy
some really interesting points in this thread (even if it did take an age to trall thru some offtopicness! i really liked this post that ritzi lee found:
:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Edge
PHX Distribution - Rethinking Music Distribution in an Online Marketplace
a global (but only internet based) community could be the answer or at least a good start. im up for it!! is there a website out there which is doing this, if so we should all sign up and help them out, otherwise we should work together and create something. i suppose discogs has the biggest database at the moment. it would be cool, if this global resource allowed any user to add info on techno and even make a way for people to sell their own releases if they want.
another good idea, could tie these two together. so where do we take it from here?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritzi Lee
many people have said techno vinyl sales are down, but at our shop total vinyl sales are up. maybe there's too many techno releases that sound alike, thru too many distributers. dirty bass raised a good point about bedroom producers, & if people are mixing digitally the vinyl itself serves no function other than a pain to rip to digital frmat - maybe people find it easier to download (legally or not). maybe more techno followers are needed, but i remember when a techno dj played on judge jules or fergie show and people were complaining, so maybe those same people dont want more people into techno...
also, it'd be nice to think anyone making money from producing music buys the software they use to make it. otherwise anotehr industry could be down the pothole.