Ok guys lets face it.

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Originally Posted by TechMouse

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Originally Posted by gumpy green

one thing you cant do is

needle dropping.

thats wher you hav stickers on yer record to guid the needle to the excact spot you want. hence droppin it right in where you want. that is an art in itself nevermind what comes after it. i suppose you could do it with cds if you could tell them the excact time to go to but this would take longer than lifting the record and droppin it on...but then again not many techno djs can be arsed learning shit like this.

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Cue points?

Have you ever actually used a CD deck? Or are you just guessing...

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used one yes......... never saw how to get straight to a certian point, say just b4 the break or a certain sample.

hows it done? does the cd player save it drop in points in its memory or summin?

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Originally Posted by perpetual

GIVE IT UP & GO DO SOMETHING LESS BORING INSTEAD :)

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what like work, fuk that id rather skive ;)

hope all is well pete

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Originally Posted by gumpy green

hows it done? does the cd player save it drop in points in its memory or summin?

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Yeah, pretty much.

You can save cue & loops points for many, many CDs to the memory of your CD deck. If you've got the higher-end models (CDJ-1000, I think) you can dump these to a flash card which you can stick in the CD decks in the club you're playing at later.

That's just the tip of the iceberg too.

I'm just sitting around waiting for the cost of these things to come down.

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Originally Posted by xfive

I see its the bi-monthly vinyl vs cd war again... yippee!! Maybe we can all choose opposite sides for arguments sake... :lol:

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HAHAHAHA...love it...

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Originally Posted by TechMouse

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Originally Posted by gumpy green

hows it done? does the cd player save it drop in points in its memory or summin?

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Yeah, pretty much.

You can save cue & loops points for many, many CDs to the memory of your CD deck. If you've got the higher-end models (CDJ-1000, I think) you can dump these to a flash card which you can stick in the CD decks in the club you're playing at later.

That's just the tip of the iceberg too.

I'm just sitting around waiting for the cost of these things to come down.

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sound fairly good. depending on the size of memory you have that does sound interesting......if you could easily save 500 records data then it would be well good.

still wont be as fun mixin tho, pressing buttons.

i enjoy the manual aspect of it but will keep my eye on the cd dek developments.....may have to add one to the 2 1210's in a yr or 2 if things get better with them.

cant ever see me stopping the vinyl tho......just luv mixin on it, it almost my life ;) as you can tell from my arguments....lol

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Originally Posted by Internal Error Records

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Originally Posted by g

or i should say.. i love it too, i'm just happy not to carry it around :twisted:

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have you seen SOS's arms? that doesnt happen carrying around an Ipod.

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you should see my neck and shoulder muscles.

hard as a rock. i don't think i can get that kinda workout with cd cases, but hey... :lol:

just read the future music review of it at lunch.

thers some things on ther that do take my fancy.....looks a good tool.

why cant you edit yer posts....this is a bit anooying sometimes...

anyway- i also see thay have them set out much better, like how i use my decks, at 90degrees, defo a good move, can undertand why folks want deks the "conventional"way it makes them further apart and yer left dek needle is in the way.

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

That`s a slightly childishly biased opinion.
To imply that you can`t make rapid mixes with CD is a typical comment from someone who fears change, and I know your not like that.
And auto beat matching would be fantastic.
Put in CD, wait a few seconds and BAM, you can mix, and get on with the important business.
Just you you spent years learning to beatmatch, there`s no reason to poo poo a device that would take out the bullshit mechanical process, to give more time for the creative part of mixing.

Change will happen.
Vinyl will not be able to sustain the market.
So when no labels can afford to do vinyl any more, then what do you do?
It won`t happen immediatley, but to think vinyl will just go on forever in some kind of cosy unreality like The Good Life, is very naieve.

Some DJ`s are so up their own arses with their self inportance that they forget people like to hear a tune, rather than a trick or something every 5 seconds, and a billion tunes per hour.
A combination of all styles is the answer, and as with new technology, it needs to be brought into the current situation, because the world is leaping forward, and techno DJ`s are standing still.

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:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

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Originally Posted by Sunil

As for talk of auto beat matching, I really don't like that idea I have to say, will these contraptions play your set for you as well?!
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Come on, lets not get immature here.
Beat matching is a mechanical skill, and is not what mixing is about.
A machine won`t be able to eq for you, or choose the tune, or choose the right place to mix depending on the way the crowd is going, or make little tricks that edge on the tension or whatever.

If you slapped a piece of vinyl straight on the deck and it was in as soon as it hit the platter, imagine how much of a cool mix you could do.

It makes the important part of mixing easy. Lets not pretend here that beatmatching is some amazing feat.

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:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

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Originally Posted by eyes without a face

is this still going?

i cant believe how some people just wont accept the argument Steve is putting over here, especially regarding sales, the mans speaking truth!

as for the technologies, damn, they are here already, so why do people talk like they are waiting for aliens to land with these new cd decks? the new technics and pioneers emulate a turntable 100% and thats the truth... 100 total english %... there is nothing any dj on here or anywhere could not do on it compared to a proper technic... apart from something like shaking the deck and getting the feedback, which im not sure why anyone wud want to do anyway really, especially in a packed club and risking the needle jumping, but anyways.....

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Yeah pretty much

why cant we have both

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Originally Posted by FILTERZ

why cant we have both

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Economies of scale dear boy.

Whats the point of a record player if no-ones making records?

Unless of course someone comes up with an infallable way of cheaply manufacuring vinyl at home in the same way a CD burner works.

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Originally Posted by FILTERZ

why cant we have both

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we will......dont let these folks tell you otherwize.

its been getting said for yrs......ther just too many vinyl junkies out ther for it to happen, just now or in the next 5yrs

and even when/if it does, itll not be in our life time.....if it did tho- i have enuf records to keep me going now, and thers still loads kicking about in shops..

actually when folks start sellin theyr recs to buy cds im gonna snap em all up ;) n the cheap.

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Originally Posted by AcidTrash

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Originally Posted by FILTERZ

why cant we have both

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Economies of scale dear boy.

Whats the point of a record player if no-ones making records?

Unless of course someone comes up with an infallable way of cheaply manufacuring vinyl at home in the same way a CD burner works.

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but ther will still be producers doing records, the ones that luv records.......ive not heard many saying ther stoppin..mind you i only know a few.

who on here that releases tracks is going to stop making vinyl and start making cds instead??? the change will be slow so im not worried(yet).

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Originally Posted by machina

how does the technology inside make it sound every bit as good as vinyl? cd is digital vinyl is analog... there's no way to reproduce the warmth of vinyl in a digital format unless you "simulate" it - and that would be dumb.

machina

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None of the instruments I use to make music nowadays, nor most of anyone else who's music I've been listening to a lot over the past 8 years, is analog in the slightest. So, really, I couldn't care less if the medium I have a song on in the end is either vinyl or CD.

As for the comments someone made about producers losing income, I really fail to see how that has anything to do with the medium something is pressed on. If it's a "duh" thing then please explain it to me since the mechanicals I see from vinyl or CD aren't any different in number and, generally, I see more roaylties coming back my way through CD sales than I ever have through vinyl.

Lets just stop this now.
There is so much fear going on about inevitable change that it`s frightening me. New technology is here, I say, at least try it before you discount it totally.

The facts about sound reproduction are all in this thread for anyone moaning on about "vinyl is analogue" so that isn`t even in question.

Essentially things are ropey with the scene right now.

Expect more distributers to fall down this summer.

Time for a threadlock and consign this one to the gutters of history?

I'd still like to know why people think that dwindling vinyl use means less money for the artists. I'm just not following this. On a side note, the last mix where a track written by myself and the other guys I work with will see some money from was only released on CD. So, a DJ played the song off of CD in his set and the mix was being sold at the last Hellbound party I guess. I'm just confused on this one as I don't see how vinyl is necesarilly beneficial or harmful for producers in regards to sales. Vinyl sells to one specific crowd. CDs sell to another crowd or a mixed crowd when it comes to recording medium preferences.

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Originally Posted by tocsin

I'd still like to know why people think that dwindling vinyl use means less money for the artists. .

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basic economics?
Less sales = Less money.

Ok. Now, how many artists/producers here limit themselves to only being released on vinyl? I know I don't.

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Originally Posted by TechMouse

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Originally Posted by Sunil

As for talk of auto beat matching, I really don't like that idea I have to say, will these contraptions play your set for you as well?!

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Mate, you sound almost as if you're actually scared that these computers are gonna come in and steal all your DJ gigs!

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Not at all. I'm holding out for the super dooper model that'll give oral sex everytime the crowd cheer.

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Originally Posted by TechMouse

Lets be clear: I'm comfortable in the knowledge that there are things I am always going to be better than a computer at doing. Picking the right records, reading the crowd, knowing when to drop the bass back in for maximum effect etc. Whatever your little tricks are, their your little bits of artistic flair, and a machine has no hope in hell of emulating them.

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I didn't think we were talking about computers? Anyway I go with what you are saying, it leads to the same reason why I'm not interested in replacing vinyl with CD.

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Originally Posted by TechMouse

All Steve is saying is that given the knowledge of the relative BPMs of two pieces of music, a computer will be much better at getting them playing at the same speed, and in time - and will do it much faster than anyone here..

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Well to be honest I am far more interested in using a computer in preference to a CD deck, I see far more possibilities to using a laptop in tandem with decks.

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Originally Posted by TechMouse

Unless you find beatmatching fun, in which case go ahead, enjoy...

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Yes I do find beat matching fun, it's a terrible pity that such a basic enjoyment of Djing should be scoffed at. I mean what do we want to do, completely kill the live aspect of DJing as we know it? Things are so calculated and clinical these days as it is (which is what turns a lot of people off the music).. auto beat matching is only going to add to that. It comes down the the same old thing though.. if there were better music to play, we wouldn't be getting as flustered over CD vs Vinyl as sales would not be suffering as much. Good music = more sales.

Btw. guys, I think many of you are completely neglecting to realise that ALL music sales are down, not just vinyl. So vinyl is going to die, we are all going to die too, but until some of you can put a rough time frame on when this may come about then it's pretty much an unvalidated arguement. Vinyl may decrease in popularity but it's not going anywhere anytime soon, I challenge anyone here to try and prove otherwise.

If things carry on as they are, I can see a high percentage of labels stopping vinyl production within the next 2 years. Whether by their own choice or not.

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

If things carry on as they are, I can see a high percentage of labels stopping vinyl production within the next 2 years. Whether by their own choice or not.

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Sure, but there's no guarantee that things will just die off, it may be the digital revolution but vinyl's been around a long time, plus I'm sure you'll agree that the vast amount of producers out there will want their music to hit wax rather than anything else. As they say: As long as there's a will, there's a way ;)

yeah, i doubt vinyl will ever go away

[quote="Sunil"]

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

If things carry on as they are, I can see a high percentage of labels stopping vinyl production within the next 2 years. Whether by their own choice or not.

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It's definitely not healthy now, and there's many producers who release little these days and others that are about to jump ship.. this is the shit reality alright. Wish I knew the answer.. maybe less distributors, and of those left that they have a stricter control over what goes out? Hmm, but then they wouldn't make money. Maybe labels need to be more cautious, clever and astute in business before they go starting labels, otherwise they will truly lose their bollocks, and swamp the market more than it actually needs.

It`s a combination of things, but it needs to be discussed.

Peronally as a producer, I can`t wait for the vinyl to change to something other than vinyl.
Vinyl has so many abberations you have to correct for, bass phasing, top end, stereo field, loudness, track length compared to bass size, cutting speed.
It`s very rare your master will sound the same once it goes to vinyl.

this thread has almost made me lose my will to live........

oh shit........

there it goes.....

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Originally Posted by eyes without a face

this thread has almost made me lose my will to live........

oh shit........

there it goes.....

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I heard you felt that way when the spice girls split up scotty :lol:

Come on guys cheer up

MUSIC WILL NEVER DIE

dont bring up that era mate please.... it was a bad time..... i still cant bring myself to open "Spice World" on DVD that i got for xmas

if we lived in a free world no of this shit would matter!

What sh1ts me the most is how expensive all the new technology is. I mean come one, who has that much dosh for a CDJ or Final Scratch, and all the money needed for production tools.

I'm starving as it is. And I work full time as a designer!

Price will fall.

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Originally Posted by Sunil

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Originally Posted by TechMouse

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Originally Posted by Sunil

As for talk of auto beat matching, I really don't like that idea I have to say, will these contraptions play your set for you as well?!

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Mate, you sound almost as if you're actually scared that these computers are gonna come in and steal all your DJ gigs!

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Not at all. I'm holding out for the super dooper model that'll give oral sex everytime the crowd cheer.

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Ah, that's the pleasure 2000 - they stock those in Soho.

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Originally Posted by Sunil

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Originally Posted by TechMouse

Lets be clear: I'm comfortable in the knowledge that there are things I am always going to be better than a computer at doing. Picking the right records, reading the crowd, knowing when to drop the bass back in for maximum effect etc. Whatever your little tricks are, their your little bits of artistic flair, and a machine has no hope in hell of emulating them.

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I didn't think we were talking about computers? Anyway I go with what you are saying, it leads to the same reason why I'm not interested in replacing vinyl with CD.

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Who wants to replace? I love my vinyls. I just don't hate CDs.

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Originally Posted by Sunil

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Originally Posted by TechMouse

All Steve is saying is that given the knowledge of the relative BPMs of two pieces of music, a computer will be much better at getting them playing at the same speed, and in time - and will do it much faster than anyone here..

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Well to be honest I am far more interested in using a computer in preference to a CD deck, I see far more possibilities to using a laptop in tandem with decks.

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To be honest, most consumer electronics devices these days are computers. They have generic microprocessors loaded with some kind of OS / firmware with the instructions to do their task. This is much cheaper than making dedicated hardware. I have no doubt this is true of CD decks. When I say "a comupter" I mean a programmable, electronic device. Don't kid yourself that a PC is any "cleverer" than your Microwave. It's just got less restrictions.

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Originally Posted by Sunil

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Originally Posted by TechMouse

Unless you find beatmatching fun, in which case go ahead, enjoy...

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Yes I do find beat matching fun, it's a terrible pity that such a basic enjoyment of Djing should be scoffed at. I mean what do we want to do, completely kill the live aspect of DJing as we know it? Things are so calculated and clinical these days as it is (which is what turns a lot of people off the music).. auto beat matching is only going to add to that.

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Fair enough, I have to cave to this one - I quite enjoy simple mixing too. But I'm not averse to the idea of letting a computer (or CD deck or whatever) do it while I try something else for a bit.

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Originally Posted by Craig McW

What sh1ts me the most is how expensive all the new technology is. I mean come one, who has that much dosh for a CDJ or Final Scratch, and all the money needed for production tools.

I'm starving as it is. And I work full time as a designer!

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Too right... £800 is taking the piss.

I can't for a minute believe even a top-of-the-range CD deck is much more expensive to manufacture than a turntable.

as sales goes up production goes up hence price falls.....always the same with new technology.

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Originally Posted by gumpy green

as sales goes up production goes up hence price falls.....always the same with new technology.

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*IF* sales go up. If early sales do not compensate for research & development costs, cost overruns can shut a product release down.

Through out history many fine pieces of technology died early deaths due to price being too high.

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Originally Posted by Internal Error Records

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Originally Posted by gumpy green

as sales goes up production goes up hence price falls.....always the same with new technology.

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*IF* sales go up. If early sales do not compensate for research & development costs, cost overruns can shut a product release down.

Through out history many fine pieces of technology died early deaths due to price being too high.

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yeh If......and i doubt it will,yet.

Technics aren`t stupid, they`ve done virtually nothing to the 1200`s forever cos they knew they didn`t need to.
Now they`ve brought out a CD deck.
They know exactly what they are doing