music is not ( supposed to be) free!!!!

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Originally Posted by module

i cant help think if everyone had of seen this coming they would have banded together & done something.

where as it happens to ppl one by one & they get pissed off as & when it happens to them.



point in case. i know a guy d'loaded Closer by Hawtin a month before it came out. he jus laughed & pretty much said '**** richie' but now its happened to one of his IDM heros he's gona ll anti-d'load. now, the same guy also cut part of a BMB live set to bits & played trax at a payed gig. when i pulled him about that, he jus laughed & said '**** regis & surgeon' but was still miffed about whatever IDM artist it was..

it seems ppl only having a passing interest UNTIL IT HAPPENS TO THEM.

which i understand, but c'mon.. this has been on the cards for sooo long.

ya either got to cut your promo list to only those you REALLY trust or jus accept its gonna happen. as handy as MP3 are, and as wide as Ableton & Traktor & cdj's are used, i dont think its gonna kill the sales of an established artist like Drummer.

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vinyl sales are just going down anyway.
i accept that.
illegal downloads are helping the process
soon it will just not be worth spending the time and energy you need
to make music commercially in any way.
is that a good thing?

less musicians in the world = less music


this is still a healthy debate becausei have already learned so much from your opinions

is there an answer ?

selling mp3s from your own site and not distributing anything at all.
no cds ( except by mail order )

no vinyl ( it's not worth it)
exclusivity completely, and when someon buys something
you get al the money.
( which is a lot less than you would earn from vinyl)
and then someone uploads it to soulseek

ok i know that is going to happen.
but now that cd is becoming a more popular alternative to vinyl
its not so unrealistice to just use cd in clubs.
and thats where the change is.

i think the way forward is

no distribution
no record shops
artists empower themselves and sell their own material on the net through their own websites.

pay pal / text message / credit card this is the kind of payment system we need to get round the credit card problem.

everyone these days has a mobile phone
use the account to pay for your tunes just like you would a ringtone.

maybe we are stupid to even bother discussing this
i mean who the hell are we anyway????

but i think it helps

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Originally Posted by MARK EG

ps anyone with 1/2 a brain realises aritsts need to be paid for their music.

:thumbsup:

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Be sure you get really high on a moral platform saying this and remember it the next time you open your favorite cracked software, use an uncleared sample, etc. :)

The members of the squeeky-clean club in this respect are now invited to show their hands.

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Originally Posted by tocsin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MARK EG

ps anyone with 1/2 a brain realises aritsts need to be paid for their music.

:thumbsup:

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Be sure you get really high on a moral platform saying this and remember it the next time you open your favorite cracked software, use an uncleared sample, etc. :)

The members of the squeeky-clean club in this respect are now invited to show their hands.

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including you?

Ringtones mate, all about ringtones.

Singles actually make more from ringtones than they do through music sales.
Ridiculous.

I think you got it bang on about distribution and overheads though.
Take away pressing plants, wholesalers, distributors and records shops and you lose a lot of overheads.

A label selling its records online is pretty direct. Or selling through an established online vendor like bleep.com or beatport.com - plenty of money to be made there.

Also money moves much, much quicker. No waiting 4 months to get paid from releases. Instant payment! Pretty empowering for the artist. See the direct impact of your music on the market, straight into your bank account. That would be a hell of a buzz...

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Originally Posted by davethedrummer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tocsin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MARK EG

ps anyone with 1/2 a brain realises aritsts need to be paid for their music.

:thumbsup:

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Be sure you get really high on a moral platform saying this and remember it the next time you open your favorite cracked software, use an uncleared sample, etc. :)

The members of the squeeky-clean club in this respect are now invited to show their hands.

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including you?

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I've never pretended to be sqeaky-clean so I don't have a hypocrissy to rationalize here. Can you say the same?

On another note,

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vinyl sales are just going down anyway.
i accept that.
illegal downloads are helping the process
soon it will just not be worth spending the time and energy you need
to make music commercially in any way.
is that a good thing?
less musicians in the world = less music

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I don't buy vinyl anymore. It's been almost 3 years. Do I download illegal tracks? Nope. See, what a number of people who have suddenlyjumped onto the RIAA boat have failed to miss is that, while you say "music isn't free," there are a number of guys making it for free and doing it ****ing better. I don't have to wait two years for an artist's work to come out anymore when they host it on their webpage, soulseek, whatever and give me permission to play it out. I'm not going to pretend to be the majority. But, I was a guy that had no prob, at one point in my life, walking into a record store and dropping $400 on vinyl regularly. But, I've no love for "vinyl." I prefer the speed and access of digital media over the net where sound can pretty much be spread at the speed of innovation, not held back by someone running a label.

So, is it a good thing that vinyl is dying? In my opinion, absofukkinglutely. Get with the times or get swept away as a relic. Your choice. If the availability of vinyl is all that keeps you doing music, and vinyl disappears, recognize that it's a choice you made and was a suicide rather than a murder.

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Originally Posted by SummerOfSam

Excellent Point Steve
Shahoul do the paper?

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Indeed.
Paper?
it`s a feckin book man.
You still talk to him?
http://www.iterativemusic.com/~dirtybass/Thesis.jpg

That`s my bro right there, I¬m so proud of him, we`ve been fam since we were 5 years old.

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Originally Posted by tocsin

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Originally Posted by davethedrummer

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Originally Posted by tocsin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MARK EG

ps anyone with 1/2 a brain realises aritsts need to be paid for their music.

:thumbsup:

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Be sure you get really high on a moral platform saying this and remember it the next time you open your favorite cracked software, use an uncleared sample, etc. :)

The members of the squeeky-clean club in this respect are now invited to show their hands.

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including you?

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I've never pretended to be sqeaky-clean so I don't have a hypocrissy to rationalize here. Can you say the same?

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who's pretending?

read my post earlier about clint eastwood
do you really think he'd get on the nic for us in the studio?

for your information
as far as software goes i buy a hell of a lot more than i don't
all my main progs and plugs are registered.

but yes there's a few things here and there that i have tried out
but not much i actually use every day.

and as for music
i always buy my records unless i get sent one
which does happen occasionally ( and i mean occasionally)
and most of what i am sent is no good to play.

Henry, you're rationalizing doing the same thing as those who "steal music." So, you don't have a leg to stand on here. I don't understand how you can bitch about people who "steal" from you when you steal from others. And I find it insulting when you piss all over an emerging scene in the process. You want to be part of it when it's convenient just as you want to be outside of it when it's convenient. It doesn't work that way.

just read first few pages of this.... I have never downloaded anything off soulseek or anything like that... lots of my mates have d/l sets whitch if there from a club i think is ok if the dj and club are cool with it. BUT no one should d/l tracks for free coz its wrong and you are killing off good music...please stop saying we carnt stop this ... think of it as a WAR and in any war never except defeat once you make it ok by saying we carnt stop it we have already lost stand up and think how many people do i know that do it and make them stop... even if you do it like smoking dont just tell your self you will quit do it now and never do it again.

IF YOU WANT MUSIC BUY IT !

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Originally Posted by Mucky Beats

just read first few pages of this.... I have never downloaded anything off soulseek or anything like that... lots of my mates have d/l sets whitch if there from a club i think is ok if the dj and club are cool with it. BUT no one should d/l tracks for free coz its wrong and you are killing off good music...please stop saying we carnt stop this ... think of it as a WAR and in any war never except defeat once you make it ok by saying we carnt stop it we have already lost stand up and think how many people do i know that do it and make them stop... even if you do it like smoking dont just tell your self you will quit do it now and never do it again.

IF YOU WANT MUSIC BUY IT !

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OR MAKE YOU OWN :eyes:

Im bored. Anyone want a cheese toastie?

I was going to leave this thread alone now, thinking there wasn't really anything more that was positive that I could contribute, but I would really like to see these people who think they can stop the whole illicit downloads thing try, I mean, seriously, what you going to do? You really think the diehard people who DL all this stop are just going to go "oh, we've been told now, some guy on blackout told us to stop, hmmm, maybe we should.." I don't think so, never going to happen.. If by any chance you do find some magic way of stopping people doing it, be my guest, I stand to benefit, but I seriously don't agree that saying it's going to happen anyway is admitting defeat, it's just being realistic.. I mean, who's got the money to start chasing up people like the RIAA have been? what you going to do, start hacking the P2P servers?? :eh:
just my 2p anyway, hopefully I'll stick to my promise to myself to say no more, but I'm easily led ;) 11 pages, it's been going round in circles, and now the shit is starting to get slung, I mean, I've had a boring day, but come on....

You're totally right Mark, you can't stop it.

I do think if people offer cheap, high-quality digital downloads (FLAC or high-quality MP3) as an alternative, then some people will decide that it's morally better to shell out the £1 than download illegally.

As long as people face the choice of £7 vinyl or free (but illegal) download, then it's a no-brainer for anyone that doesn't DJ.

Yes I agreed you can't stop so you have to find a new way. Vinyls are well-overpriced and Henry you just have to face the facts. Either sell only at gigs or make pop

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Originally Posted by tocsin

So, is it a good thing that vinyl is dying? In my opinion, absofukkinglutely. Get with the times or get swept away as a relic. Your choice.

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Tell that to real deck technicians, DJs, collectors etc.

As long as there's a love for vinyl it'll always be there.

Vinyl IS NOT dying. It might be a tougher struggle in underground music because of the niche nature of some of it, but once bigger acts or bands etc. are pressing vinyl and the pressing plants are still alive, then labels will still be pressing vinyl. This is a fact of life ;)

In 2004 for instance Armand Van Helden sold something like 67,000 units of one of his singles... on vinyl.

I've also heard a startling statistic of how many Arctic Moneys vinyl LPs sold in Ireland alone. I want to double check on the exact quantity but from a good source in the company that distributes it, I was told it was a very sizeable 5 figure total.

I like the sound of vinyl but it is well over-priced and people have to find better ways of selling.

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Originally Posted by Sunil

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tocsin

So, is it a good thing that vinyl is dying? In my opinion, absofukkinglutely. Get with the times or get swept away as a relic. Your choice.

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Tell that to real deck technicians, DJs, collectors etc.

As long as there's a love for vinyl it'll always be there.

Vinyl IS NOT dying. It might be a tougher struggle in underground music because of the niche nature of some of it, but once bigger acts or bands etc. are pressing vinyl and the pressing plants are still alive, then labels will still be pressing vinyl. This is a fact of life ;)

In 2004 for instance Armand Van Helden sold something like 67,000 units of one of his singles... on vinyl.

I've also heard a startling statistic of how many Arctic Moneys vinyl LPs sold in Ireland alone. I want to double check on the exact quantity but from a good source in the company that distributes it, I was told it was a very sizeable 5 figure total.

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Well, I'm glad there's some people here who have the facts to back up the logic, I can't help but feel it's the blind leading the blind sometimes......

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Originally Posted by Sunil

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tocsin

So, is it a good thing that vinyl is dying? In my opinion, absofukkinglutely. Get with the times or get swept away as a relic. Your choice.

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Tell that to real deck technicians, DJs, collectors etc.

As long as there's a love for vinyl it'll always be there.

Vinyl IS NOT dying. It might be a tougher struggle in underground music because of the niche nature of some of it, but once bigger acts or bands etc. are pressing vinyl and the pressing plants are still alive, then labels will still be pressing vinyl. This is a fact of life ;)

In 2004 for instance Armand Van Helden sold something like 67,000 units of one of his singles... on vinyl.

I've also heard a startling statistic of how many Arctic Moneys vinyl LPs sold in Ireland alone. I want to double check on the exact quantity but from a good source in the company that distributes it, I was told it was a very sizeable 5 figure total.

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Yeah but comparing Arctic Monkey cd sales its very marginal though innit, friend?

yeah, the arctic monkeys shifted a few records, in our shop we sold about 6 or 7, which is a shitload normally, but then we also shifted something like 300 cds, just in the first week they were out - which is completely unheard of at the moment (actually, it was unheard of ever), I mean the arctic monkeys album outsold any single that has come out in the past few years, even the band aid thing or amarillo I think. And all the people who bought the vinyl albums will probably never play them, never even open the shrink wrap, they are collectors only. So I dont think that example can be used cause its truly exceptional.

this thread has descended into somewhat of a pointless debate. Im sorry but people cant complain about people putting their records up online stolen, only to reveal that they have pirated software on their systems. The amount of use of said software is totally irrelevant, if you have it, you have it. Simple.

Loads of great points in here that i think everyone would be better concentrating on

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Originally Posted by eyeswithoutaface

this thread has descended into somewhat of a pointless debate. Im sorry but people cant complain about people putting their records up online stolen, only to reveal that they have pirated software on their systems. The amount of use of said software is totally irrelevant, if you have it, you have it. Simple.

Loads of great points in here that i think everyone would be better concentrating on

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Its all starting to make my head hurt now, but there really have been some great points, including some that didn't get raised the last time this debate happened on such a large scale, so I reckon we're going around in a spiral rather than a circle, everytime we go around, theres a few more good ideas getting picked up on route.

One thing though, thats probably been nearly forgotten in the last 12 pages or whatever - whoever it was that put the demos for D.A.V.E's record up on soulseek before it was even released remains a twatface.

I just don't like it when I see this meme repeatedly brought up ("music isn't free," "MP3 is destroying the underground," "online piracy will make it so artists don't make music anymore"). I'm sorry, but grow the **** up already. This is the nature of our scene and it's largely there as a result of how it was started. To go from something rooted in lawless defiance to the mainstream music industry, all while breaking the law and stealing in numerous ways yourself, only to turn around and act like the spokesmodel for the same industry you ripped off, and then justifying your criminal acts the same way the kids who pirate mp3s do today ("do you think they really care?" "Well, I've bought most of my ..." etc.) is straight-up hypocritical geezer horseshit.

To sum it up, it says "Do as I say, not as I do."

Don't want to get crushed by piracy? For ****s sake, learn how to take advantage of it already. It's not like this hasn't been said in the past either.

A.) People who do DJ digital files are more inclined to by them than those who don't. For a buck, you have no wait, no risk of mislabeling or errors, and high quality. Between all the ****ing geeks on this site, we've collectively got more storage space and bandwidth than we know what to ****ing do with. And it's not even expensive anymore. I just recently got a dedicated server with an 80GB HD and 1500 gigs bandwidth a month for $49 a month.
B.) People are still buying music, or pirating the graphics for them, posting info on discogs, etc. Take advantage of the minimal physical distribution you still have, along with all online distributions (legal and illegal) to hype a centralized store by and for the artists. All it would need is a mySQL database with pointers to media and a means of accepting credit cards. Then, from that server, you could distribute direct downloads through any server like the one I mention in A above. Cut the ****ing middle-men out of the digital. We don't need them.
C.) Spam the **** out of P2P. Don't wait for the kid to pirate your track and host it. Rather, make a number of different filenames that are similar and fake the bitrates. In other words, encode something to a 32kbit MP3. Then, take the 32kbit MP3 and encode to 320kbit, 256, 128, etc. It will still sound like shit and will make it harder to distinguish good from bad. Oh yeah, throw a link to the central server where the MP3 can be purchased in the media.
D.) Offer some free shit from the centralized site just to bring people in.
We all have the power to do this collectively and, at the very worst, offset some of the losses incurred by piracy and/or lack of vinyl sales. And it can co-exist with those of us who like to make music for free as well.

I can understand people getting pissed about unreleased tracks becoming available in advance. But, I'm just tired of seeing the repeated bashing on those of us who once showed great support with the bills we sank on records by some of the very people who post here, and then stopped buying those records when the technology advanced in a way that allowed us to play the most current and cutting edge music without having to wait for some ****ing label to determine that the time was finally right to release the sound. It pisses me off and it gets harder and harder for me to determine how genuine someone is being when they have no problem trashing that whole scene as, given that I'm not aware of anyone here that can pretend they haven't stolen in one way or another with this music, the moral tone is hollow and it seems like some people are getting more and more threatened by the notion that digital technology, free distribution, etc. has finally kicked a production revolution into gear, thus making "producers"
that sell music completely obsolete and unecesary to those who are happy with their own DIY methods.

Seriously, is the "theft" that really bothers people here who have a stake in this shit or is it more the fear of becoming obsolete that results in this MP3/Piracy rerun we see here all the time?

Great post man.
I`d be willing to get involved in some kind of collective online distribution site.
Even if it`s just throwing in some money.

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

Great post man.
I`d be willing to get involved in some kind of collective online distribution site.
Even if it`s just throwing in some money.

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that's really it, isn't it. techno needs its own version of itunes. itunes has proven that, as tocsin says, loads of people will pay for tracks as long as they are cheap and high-quality.

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Originally Posted by davethedrummer

vinyl sales are just going down anyway.
i accept that.
illegal downloads are helping the process
soon it will just not be worth spending the time and energy you need
to make music commercially in any way.
is that a good thing?

less musicians in the world = less music

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Less musicians?

You have to be kidding me, there’s literally hundreds of thousands of people getting into writing music every year right across the UK. There are community based (and funded) projects cropping up where anyone can get into making music. Shit I even saw an advert on the telly for reason not so long back

I work part time in a hospital and in the last 6 months I have met 4 people around my age, one writes DnB, one make techno (that makes 2 inc me??!) and one Dubstep and some other guy whos making bassline house. Om maybe none of us are real musicians but you get the idea. One has a full studio setup and the other guys are all pc based. Never the less I doubt that I would have just bumped into 4 artists at work 5-10 years ago like that

You think its all cming to an end? This is just the begining imo, we on the start of something new here. Those who make a living out of music may not be doing so soon, just like what happens in just about every trade out there. Bad, yes in a way but its just a fact of life that things are forever changing. What matters the most is the club scene and the quality of the music that’s coming out. Right now people are starting to realize those formulas they are sticking by aren’t working anymore. That’s a positive in my book, a big one at that.

If vinyl dies, if labels even die, it wont stop nothing, not as long as the internet is around. Its just going to root out the people who in this game with wrong intentions imo. Survival of the strongest

P.S I am not trying to sound like mr bigshot, I admint im a nobody but Im going to be around doing this untill i die because i ****ing love it

i love the idiot who says vinyl is overpriced!!!!! you know how much an artist makes for one of his own records?!?!?!

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Originally Posted by crime

it's the blind leading the blind

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quote of the year

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Originally Posted by deafmosaic

i love the idiot who says vinyl is overpriced!!!!! you know how much an artist makes for one of his own records?!?!?!

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yes we all do...its been explained to us 'stupid kids' already in this thread ;)

seriously though, the idea is to create a record that is more than just a piece of petrolium. ppl but the records because they want to hold a physical piece of the artist in their hands. this is why it is good to do concept records with full artwork covers etc and really concentrate on marketing, but at the same time it is so expensive to put art on your records and keep concepts intact that nowadays it becomes a vicious cycle...

should say *buy, not "but" CAN WE GET A FREAKING EDIT BUTTON ALREADY?!

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Originally Posted by deafmosaic

seriously though, the idea is to create a record that is more than just a piece of petrolium. ppl but the records because they want to hold a physical piece of the artist in their hands. this is why it is good to do concept records with full artwork covers etc and really concentrate on marketing, but at the same time it is so expensive to put art on your records and keep concepts intact that nowadays it becomes a vicious cycle...

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maybe thats still the case with some people, but that is deffinatly dieing.

it is obvious to see that the future is in digital dowloads of some sort. if it isn't obvious to you maybe you will be one of those that gets left behind in all the shit. ;)

oh thank you expert of the music insutry, what ever would we do without you? somebody get this guy a helmet....

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Originally Posted by deafmosaic

oh thank you expert of the music insutry, what ever would we do without you? somebody get this guy a helmet....

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thankyou ;)

xxxx

left behind in all the shit? how many records do you have out? maybe you talk like that to your little friends but this aint your grandmas house there guy.



anyway are you saying that all music will be downloaded in the future and the physical medias will be lost? what a joke.


full quality, physical releases will never be in danger until the quality of downloads is better than mp3.



i love how folks insist on this, that or the other being "the future" when they have no biz in the industry in the first place.

try reading the thread then gunjack

Some really gutsy passionate stuff here.

I'm with Divide. More people are making music now than ever.
Talent will get noticed and rise to the top, fake djs and formulaic boring producers will sink to the bottom.

I'm not paying £8 for a piece of plastic with a picture on it. Why pay to keep a pressing house and distributor in business?
I'd rather pay the artist direct.

Too many links in the chain. Cut them out.

Oh and gunjack - plenty of shops sell WAV files now. Buying them in 24-96 not impossible.
Which would be better than CD.

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Originally Posted by deafmosaic

i love how folks insist on this, that or the other being "the future" when they have no biz in the industry in the first place.

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thats how ****in arrogant you are.

i used to buy gunjack tunes in the past.. i would never give anything to such an arrogant prick as you though. the shit you spout is untrue.

sorry to everyone here.. this has nothing to do with this post.. just this joker in general.

It`s a toss up really.
some people prefer to buy more than data, and it is nice to have some physical product in your hands, but at the same time you can`t ignore the ipod generation (although sometimes I do wanna slap those trendy fashion following white earphone wearing buggers).
What techno needs, as was just discussed, is our own online distribution network, not just all the other download sites, as they are a mash up and don`t recognise the cult/specialist following of techno, some kind of online mp3/wav pay portal that represents techno.

For us by us.

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Originally Posted by oldbugger

try reading the thread then gunjack

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try reading the brown eye dirty there fukwit

as for selling WAVs, connection speed is the issue.

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some kind of online mp3/wav pay portal that represents techno.

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Beatport?
Where I buy most of my stuff these days...

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Originally Posted by deafmosaic

as for selling WAVs, connection speed is the issue.

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Bandwidth doubles about every 9 months.
20 meg pipes into homes in some places.

Speed not going to be an issue in a year or two.

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Originally Posted by oldbugger

Quote:

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Originally Posted by deafmosaic

i love how folks insist on this, that or the other being "the future" when they have no biz in the industry in the first place.

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thats how **** arrogant you are.

i used to buy gunjack tunes in the past.. i would never give anything to such an arrogant prick as you though. the shit you spout is untrue.

sorry to everyone here.. this has nothing to do with this post.. just this joker in general.

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now see here dickhead: i wouldnt have spoken to you like that had you not TALKED DOWN to me with your freaking: "it is obvious to see that the future is in digital dowloads of some sort. if it isn't obvious to you maybe you will be one of those that gets left behind in all the shit. "


can u give me a f ucking break please?


dont like being talked to in an arrogant way? maybve try showing the respect you EXPECT in return.

from this thread i can easily make out 2 dividing camps.

One camp genuinely just doesnt care about making money on their music, they are grateful enough they have the talen, skills, resources and opportunities open to them to be releasing music, wether this is via the medium of vinyl or the digital domain. Any monie's due in are seen as a welcome bonus to this camp. The music is certainly without a doubt the main incentive in this camp. The other camp seem's to automatically assume they should be getting paid good whack for everything they do, regardless of sale's, the current market etc etc and whilst maintaining a solid love for the music, its quite clear that there is a greater love for making some money. Which is great if that's what you want, i couldnt care less. I know which camp im in!

People using the fact they have records out or quoting numbers of sale's as a defence in a debate are so misled its untrue, its quite apparent that pretty much any monkey can get a record released these days if they try, i even know people who have records due out who havent tried at all and its still happened, that's how easy it is

but

me, well, im interested in getting my MUSIC out there. That's the big difference. You have to decide wether you want to carry on putting out music, or carry on putting out records. If it's the latter, then really, just stop the constant moaning when someone puts it online or it doesnt sell well, because i think you'd have to be naive not to at least consider these happening anyway, so i think people need to stop acting like there the first person it's happened too

Jay is bang on. Too many link's in the chain

if it carrie's on like this, releasing will become such a minefield both morally and materialistically, that i think alot of people wont bother!

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Originally Posted by Jay Pace

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Originally Posted by deafmosaic

as for selling WAVs, connection speed is the issue.

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Bandwidth doubles about every 9 months.
20 meg pipes into homes in some places.

Speed not going to be an issue in a year or two.

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well that is a good point i suppose, but most countries have a longer road ahead of them than 2 years. uk, usa, japan, korea maybe, but the rest of the world will need to catch up, but anyway i am not against digital music but for a collector or enthusiast there will never be a replacement for a physical release. it is more than just recorded music. it is something crafted by the artist and presented to the world.....

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Originally Posted by eyeswithoutaface

if it carrie's on like this, releasing will become such a minefield both morally and materialistically, that i think alot of people wont bother!

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what he said.

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Originally Posted by deafmosaic

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Originally Posted by oldbugger

Quote:

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Originally Posted by deafmosaic

i love how folks insist on this, that or the other being "the future" when they have no biz in the industry in the first place.

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thats how **** arrogant you are.

i used to buy gunjack tunes in the past.. i would never give anything to such an arrogant prick as you though. the shit you spout is untrue.

sorry to everyone here.. this has nothing to do with this post.. just this joker in general.

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now see here dickhead: i wouldnt have spoken to you like that had you not TALKED DOWN to me with your freaking: "it is obvious to see that the future is in digital dowloads of some sort. if it isn't obvious to you maybe you will be one of those that gets left behind in all the shit. "


can u give me a f ucking break please?


dont like being talked to in an arrogant way? maybve try showing the respect you EXPECT in return.

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i dont want respect.. but i sure as hell wont give it to you anyway. if you don't understand why there is no hope. you talk down to everyone and seem to think you are the be all and end all.

i swore blind i wouldnt get involved in a thread that you were in ever again...

i'll remember in futere..

ok DICKHEAD?