Schranz Is Not Hard Techno

if i understood this ocrrectly, there are some good and some bad producers from within this "hardtechno" school?

:clap:

the best of wishes to ya Mr Amok... please continue to do 'your thing' as it is one of the few that matters.

Exactly. Can't argue with that at all. Sorry Sam but if you don't think what is categorised as schranz as hard techno then good for you. Pretty pointless though trying to think you can tell others what is or is not hard techno. Anyone who thinks hard techno has to remain between 135 and 145 bpm, be "intelligent" and have soul or whatever is clearly bonkers.
Add to that you agreed that fifth direction (Matame 02) was a great piece of vinyl, well I would say that three quarters of it are by what you would call schranz producers??? And that's not hard techno?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DJAmok

It's gotten confusing lately.

The main confusing is between "Hardtechno" from Germany, which is what "Schranz" evolved into and "Hard Techno" from the UK, which is what Mark EG for example is doing.



So here's a little history lesson on what went on in Germany the last 5 years (again, note the difference between "Hard Techno" and "Hardtechno" or else this won't make sense).


When Schranz started in Germany, it became a huge hype. A year or two into the hype, Schranz as a word became unpopular and the music started to become soft and turned into what is now Techhouse. That aside it also started to suck. That's pretty much when I surfaced and started doing ridiculously hard 'Schranz' with the sole purpose of shocking and protesting this new, softer direction the music had taken.

The work of ViperXXL, Wittekind and myself gave birth to a new hype. 'Schranz' played at 150 bpm. Back then our sets mostly consisted of mostly UK Hard Techno and some of the harder German and French stuff. Think Glenn Wilson, Cold Dust, The Anxious, WJH, Stigmata, etc.

Since we didn't see it as Schranz, for lack of a better word, we called our music "Hard Techno" which was written as "Hardtechno" in order to keep Germans from writing it as "Harter Techno". (This was shortly before the iraq war and in Germany people tried to avoid english words as protest against the US or some shit).

So from then on everybody called the hard and fast stuff "Hardtechno". A bunch of new producers showed up, some good (Arkus P., OBI, Seema at the time), but most of them sucked. People started producing and djing on speeds of 155bpm and up to make their tracks sound harder. This of course wasn't gonna work, but like anyone ever listened to me....

People started stealing loops from each other, overcompressing the f*ck out of their productions, so you basically get some muddy drumloop shit with no highs which pumps for 2 monutes, then theres a break with some random noises and some angry sounding movie sample "haha now prepare to die". Of course that's when the compressor lets go, so the highs start screaming and it messes up you hearing, then the beat comes back in and it's back to the old mud sound.

Now, 3 years later, the scene has devolved into something I don't want to have a part in anymore. Hardtechno partys start at 160+bpm and end at... 160+bpm. NO WONDER party people get sick of this shit. Hell I love headbanging as much as anyone, but I feel insulted by the stupidity and lack of creativity of Hardtechno productions lately.

I pretty much quit playing any of that stuff in 2004 and worked my way towards a more Industrial Hardcore like sound, which in my opinion is far closer to UK Hard Techno than anything else. Names like Manu LeMalin, Daisy, Rude Awakening, Lenny Dee, Peaky Pounder, Ophidian, etc come to mind.

I got into hot water for it, I was threatened last year by DJs from the Hardtechno scene, that if I continued "opening the doors to our market for the the Hardcore guys, it would be the end of Hardtechno, because one can't compete with DJs like Lenny and businesses like Third Movement". Not that I cared. There was even a call for boycott against me. Promoters were threatened, that if they book me or any one from my agency, they would no longer get headliners from a certain agency.

So I started my own agency and right now we're promoting this new Industrial Techno style and building up a new scene. A scene where there will be no room for bpm contests, cokehead artists who mistake themselves for god, calls for boycott and all the other crap that ruined Hardtechno.


At least that's my vision and mission for the next few years.

Ideally there will be partys that start with Techno, move up to Hard Techno and from there go harder and harder until you end up with Industrial Hardcore.

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Fair play to ya mate, that`s one of the most constructive and honest statements about a scene I`ve heard for a while.

Good luck to you.

i mean im one of hard techno's biggest advocates, and i really, REALLY dislike most schranz, still love early wittekind ep's but now i find most of it a complete joke. But this thread is inane, condascending and certainly wasnt put up with the intention of a debate, it was "this is this, not that, accept it", which is a big no no, even i can see that and ive been guilty of some true schranz slagging in the past, the difference being ive made it known to those involved in the scene why i felt like i did about the sound. Now it just doesnt bother me, its not an area i work in or every am likely too, and im pleased with that

if it doesnt bother what your doing directly, then chill out. It's like all the minimal bashing, if your not involved in that area, or even like it, then whats the point in slagging it? we are all alot more grown up on here than we were 4 years ago, lets start acting like it

can we not just call it all hard dance music and hen define it by the bpm? :eyes:

it`s all techno.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by module

xavi, where is th proof that what you say is gospel ? for i supsect it is purely based on opinion.

its subjective.. therefore, there is no right or wrong.

was 'schranz' not jus a descrip[tive word ? like 'funky' or 'minamil' or 'hard' or 'deep' ?

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well i was stating my oppion,,, figured thatis the purpose of this thread by no means am i claiming something is truth or not i 'm only sying how i feel about the matter..dont take me wrong there is some great scranz out there ...and will be for some time... the whole divide thing is confusing,,,

my point is this new stuff 150 bpm is a world of it;s own,,, known as schranz... very different from what it originated from to be called hardtechno...

but still it;s only my oppinion and not the truth ...

the truth is out there :lol:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kebabman

Exactly. Can't argue with that at all. Sorry Sam but if you don't think what is categorised as schranz as hard techno then good for you. Pretty pointless though trying to think you can tell others what is or is not hard techno. Anyone who thinks hard techno has to remain between 135 and 145 bpm, be "intelligent" and have soul or whatever is clearly bonkers.
Add to that you agreed that fifth direction (Matame 02) was a great piece of vinyl, well I would say that three quarters of it are by what you would call schranz producers??? And that's not hard techno?

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Wow
I find it amazing how some good points are brought to light in here.
By well established producers and mates about the board, yet you choose to single me out in this discussion, I am not the only one here who is relaying the topic of this thread.
Especially one of the best points by Ben himself.
As far as Matame is concerned Jav is a friend of mine and I would support if he put a fart on vinyl out.
I never said I was against schranz or what is associated with.
I am against certain people involved with that scene trying to redefine what is hard techno.
So next time research what I type previous to looking like a derranged soccer fan saying yeah dude schranz rules you suck.
And Module, leave me be, we do not want a repeat of before, I've gone through the mill with you before, you also need to lay off the personal attack. Obviously there are people here that agree with my point so there is no use in you saying it is ....useless.
You are a hard techno producer are you not?
In your ads for your nights you say you are the underrated hard techno lad right?
How would you feel if you were classified as hardgroove?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DJAmok

It's gotten confusing lately.

The main confusing is between "Hardtechno" from Germany, which is what "Schranz" evolved into and "Hard Techno" from the UK, which is what Mark EG for example is doing.



So here's a little history lesson on what went on in Germany the last 5 years (again, note the difference between "Hard Techno" and "Hardtechno" or else this won't make sense).


When Schranz started in Germany, it became a huge hype. A year or two into the hype, Schranz as a word became unpopular and the music started to become soft and turned into what is now Techhouse. That aside it also started to suck. That's pretty much when I surfaced and started doing ridiculously hard 'Schranz' with the sole purpose of shocking and protesting this new, softer direction the music had taken.

The work of ViperXXL, Wittekind and myself gave birth to a new hype. 'Schranz' played at 150 bpm. Back then our sets mostly consisted of mostly UK Hard Techno and some of the harder German and French stuff. Think Glenn Wilson, Cold Dust, The Anxious, WJH, Stigmata, etc.

Since we didn't see it as Schranz, for lack of a better word, we called our music "Hard Techno" which was written as "Hardtechno" in order to keep Germans from writing it as "Harter Techno". (This was shortly before the iraq war and in Germany people tried to avoid english words as protest against the US or some shit).

So from then on everybody called the hard and fast stuff "Hardtechno". A bunch of new producers showed up, some good (Arkus P., OBI, Seema at the time), but most of them sucked. People started producing and djing on speeds of 155bpm and up to make their tracks sound harder. This of course wasn't gonna work, but like anyone ever listened to me....

People started stealing loops from each other, overcompressing the f*ck out of their productions, so you basically get some muddy drumloop shit with no highs which pumps for 2 monutes, then theres a break with some random noises and some angry sounding movie sample "haha now prepare to die". Of course that's when the compressor lets go, so the highs start screaming and it messes up you hearing, then the beat comes back in and it's back to the old mud sound.

Now, 3 years later, the scene has devolved into something I don't want to have a part in anymore. Hardtechno partys start at 160+bpm and end at... 160+bpm. NO WONDER party people get sick of this shit. Hell I love headbanging as much as anyone, but I feel insulted by the stupidity and lack of creativity of Hardtechno productions lately.

I pretty much quit playing any of that stuff in 2004 and worked my way towards a more Industrial Hardcore like sound, which in my opinion is far closer to UK Hard Techno than anything else. Names like Manu LeMalin, Daisy, Rude Awakening, Lenny Dee, Peaky Pounder, Ophidian, etc come to mind.

I got into hot water for it, I was threatened last year by DJs from the Hardtechno scene, that if I continued "opening the doors to our market for the the Hardcore guys, it would be the end of Hardtechno, because one can't compete with DJs like Lenny and businesses like Third Movement". Not that I cared. There was even a call for boycott against me. Promoters were threatened, that if they book me or any one from my agency, they would no longer get headliners from a certain agency.

So I started my own agency and right now we're promoting this new Industrial Techno style and building up a new scene. A scene where there will be no room for bpm contests, cokehead artists who mistake themselves for god, calls for boycott and all the other crap that ruined Hardtechno.


At least that's my vision and mission for the next few years.

Ideally there will be partys that start with Techno, move up to Hard Techno and from there go harder and harder until you end up with Industrial Hardcore.

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:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Really good post - thanks for that -m prob done more than the rest of the entire thread to clear up the confusion between the two in my mind.


Good luck with the future plans - def the way forward imo!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SummerOfSam

You are a hard techno producer are you not?
In your ads for your nights you say you are the underrated hard techno lad right?
How would you feel if you were classified as hardgroove?

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no.. i make all sorts of techno.. from clicky bleeps to over compressed loop crap ;)

and tbh man ? i couldnt give 2 or 3 flying f**ks what ayone classes me as. if you think all i do is play Amok record after Amok record, then it shows you have no idea whatsoever of what i play.

i play everything from Amok to the Rolling Stones when i play out.. i been playing old house & techno from back round 92-95 on my monthly sundays.. last perpetual, i played mostly Sims/Broom/User type records. the previous, it was an Ableton set using my own loops. the one before that, it was a bit of everything, even old Hardfloor acid trax from like 93..



man, it aint all about your opinion here, i think Xavi had some great points, but i dont have to agree with them. its ALL subjective. jus like production.. there is no right or wrong, jus opinion.

and i have no beef with you. i jus dont agree with all your opinions. as you dont agree with all mine. which i think IS a good thing.

is chris liberator schranz?

I don't really see how you can say he is tbh - acid techno surely mate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kai

I don't really see how you can say he is tbh - acid techno surely mate.

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:lol: :lol: :lol:

sorry m8.. was just tryin to take the piss!

Ha ha - had a sneaky feelin' you might be mate, but you never know do ya - heard sillier things from people in the past. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by module

and tbh man ? i couldnt give 2 or 3 flying f**ks what ayone classes me as. if you think all i do is play Amok record after Amok record, then it shows you have no idea whatsoever of what i play.

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Funny thing is I never said that.
You are just using me as a scapegoat for your points.
Me and Xavi are not saying anything different.
Nor am I and Amok for that matter.
I never brought any opinion about schranz into this.
I don't even have much of a negative opinion on it.
It is it's own entity.
I am just against a handful of schranz producers and enthusiasts
Trying to redefine what is hard techno and trying to classify what is hard techno as hardgroove.
That is what this sticky is about.

thats cool.. and no, you never said that.. bit of a tirade i admit & aplologise for.. i jus get etchy when ppl assume all i play is bang bang.. and from time to time go off.. my bad.

anyhoo.. yeah, its the classification i dont get. i jus dont see how it helps tbh. i personally jus see techno in levels of heavyness.


but yeah.. cool. i suppose if theres one here it saves having 13 across 3 other forums innit.

i love the schranz, i do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SummerOfSam

When Adam Beyer did this
http://mp3.juno.co.uk/MP3/SF15953-01-01-01.mp3
http://mp3.juno.co.uk/MP3/SF66215-01-02-01.mp3
Which I would consider hard techno.

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What's the name of these tracks?

I haven't read the whole thread so this has probably been said already, but surely the main problem Sam is just that 'hard techno' is on the surface of it too broad a name for the specific genre you're so passionate about.

People can be forgiven for hearing schranz - thinking it's hard, it's techno... so it's hard techno. If they give a shit about it they'll know the difference, if they don't surely the term they use to describe the sound isn't worth worrying too much about?