music is not ( supposed to be) free!!!!

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Originally Posted by Mucky Beats

just read first few pages of this.... I have never downloaded anything off soulseek or anything like that... lots of my mates have d/l sets whitch if there from a club i think is ok if the dj and club are cool with it. BUT no one should d/l tracks for free coz its wrong and you are killing off good music...please stop saying we carnt stop this ... think of it as a WAR and in any war never except defeat once you make it ok by saying we carnt stop it we have already lost stand up and think how many people do i know that do it and make them stop... even if you do it like smoking dont just tell your self you will quit do it now and never do it again.

IF YOU WANT MUSIC BUY IT !

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OR MAKE YOU OWN :eyes:

Im bored. Anyone want a cheese toastie?

I was going to leave this thread alone now, thinking there wasn't really anything more that was positive that I could contribute, but I would really like to see these people who think they can stop the whole illicit downloads thing try, I mean, seriously, what you going to do? You really think the diehard people who DL all this stop are just going to go "oh, we've been told now, some guy on blackout told us to stop, hmmm, maybe we should.." I don't think so, never going to happen.. If by any chance you do find some magic way of stopping people doing it, be my guest, I stand to benefit, but I seriously don't agree that saying it's going to happen anyway is admitting defeat, it's just being realistic.. I mean, who's got the money to start chasing up people like the RIAA have been? what you going to do, start hacking the P2P servers?? :eh:
just my 2p anyway, hopefully I'll stick to my promise to myself to say no more, but I'm easily led ;) 11 pages, it's been going round in circles, and now the shit is starting to get slung, I mean, I've had a boring day, but come on....

You're totally right Mark, you can't stop it.

I do think if people offer cheap, high-quality digital downloads (FLAC or high-quality MP3) as an alternative, then some people will decide that it's morally better to shell out the £1 than download illegally.

As long as people face the choice of £7 vinyl or free (but illegal) download, then it's a no-brainer for anyone that doesn't DJ.

Yes I agreed you can't stop so you have to find a new way. Vinyls are well-overpriced and Henry you just have to face the facts. Either sell only at gigs or make pop

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Originally Posted by tocsin

So, is it a good thing that vinyl is dying? In my opinion, absofukkinglutely. Get with the times or get swept away as a relic. Your choice.

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Tell that to real deck technicians, DJs, collectors etc.

As long as there's a love for vinyl it'll always be there.

Vinyl IS NOT dying. It might be a tougher struggle in underground music because of the niche nature of some of it, but once bigger acts or bands etc. are pressing vinyl and the pressing plants are still alive, then labels will still be pressing vinyl. This is a fact of life ;)

In 2004 for instance Armand Van Helden sold something like 67,000 units of one of his singles... on vinyl.

I've also heard a startling statistic of how many Arctic Moneys vinyl LPs sold in Ireland alone. I want to double check on the exact quantity but from a good source in the company that distributes it, I was told it was a very sizeable 5 figure total.

I like the sound of vinyl but it is well over-priced and people have to find better ways of selling.

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Originally Posted by Sunil

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Originally Posted by tocsin

So, is it a good thing that vinyl is dying? In my opinion, absofukkinglutely. Get with the times or get swept away as a relic. Your choice.

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Tell that to real deck technicians, DJs, collectors etc.

As long as there's a love for vinyl it'll always be there.

Vinyl IS NOT dying. It might be a tougher struggle in underground music because of the niche nature of some of it, but once bigger acts or bands etc. are pressing vinyl and the pressing plants are still alive, then labels will still be pressing vinyl. This is a fact of life ;)

In 2004 for instance Armand Van Helden sold something like 67,000 units of one of his singles... on vinyl.

I've also heard a startling statistic of how many Arctic Moneys vinyl LPs sold in Ireland alone. I want to double check on the exact quantity but from a good source in the company that distributes it, I was told it was a very sizeable 5 figure total.

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Well, I'm glad there's some people here who have the facts to back up the logic, I can't help but feel it's the blind leading the blind sometimes......

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Originally Posted by Sunil

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tocsin

So, is it a good thing that vinyl is dying? In my opinion, absofukkinglutely. Get with the times or get swept away as a relic. Your choice.

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Tell that to real deck technicians, DJs, collectors etc.

As long as there's a love for vinyl it'll always be there.

Vinyl IS NOT dying. It might be a tougher struggle in underground music because of the niche nature of some of it, but once bigger acts or bands etc. are pressing vinyl and the pressing plants are still alive, then labels will still be pressing vinyl. This is a fact of life ;)

In 2004 for instance Armand Van Helden sold something like 67,000 units of one of his singles... on vinyl.

I've also heard a startling statistic of how many Arctic Moneys vinyl LPs sold in Ireland alone. I want to double check on the exact quantity but from a good source in the company that distributes it, I was told it was a very sizeable 5 figure total.

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Yeah but comparing Arctic Monkey cd sales its very marginal though innit, friend?

yeah, the arctic monkeys shifted a few records, in our shop we sold about 6 or 7, which is a shitload normally, but then we also shifted something like 300 cds, just in the first week they were out - which is completely unheard of at the moment (actually, it was unheard of ever), I mean the arctic monkeys album outsold any single that has come out in the past few years, even the band aid thing or amarillo I think. And all the people who bought the vinyl albums will probably never play them, never even open the shrink wrap, they are collectors only. So I dont think that example can be used cause its truly exceptional.

this thread has descended into somewhat of a pointless debate. Im sorry but people cant complain about people putting their records up online stolen, only to reveal that they have pirated software on their systems. The amount of use of said software is totally irrelevant, if you have it, you have it. Simple.

Loads of great points in here that i think everyone would be better concentrating on

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Originally Posted by eyeswithoutaface

this thread has descended into somewhat of a pointless debate. Im sorry but people cant complain about people putting their records up online stolen, only to reveal that they have pirated software on their systems. The amount of use of said software is totally irrelevant, if you have it, you have it. Simple.

Loads of great points in here that i think everyone would be better concentrating on

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Its all starting to make my head hurt now, but there really have been some great points, including some that didn't get raised the last time this debate happened on such a large scale, so I reckon we're going around in a spiral rather than a circle, everytime we go around, theres a few more good ideas getting picked up on route.

One thing though, thats probably been nearly forgotten in the last 12 pages or whatever - whoever it was that put the demos for D.A.V.E's record up on soulseek before it was even released remains a twatface.

I just don't like it when I see this meme repeatedly brought up ("music isn't free," "MP3 is destroying the underground," "online piracy will make it so artists don't make music anymore"). I'm sorry, but grow the **** up already. This is the nature of our scene and it's largely there as a result of how it was started. To go from something rooted in lawless defiance to the mainstream music industry, all while breaking the law and stealing in numerous ways yourself, only to turn around and act like the spokesmodel for the same industry you ripped off, and then justifying your criminal acts the same way the kids who pirate mp3s do today ("do you think they really care?" "Well, I've bought most of my ..." etc.) is straight-up hypocritical geezer horseshit.

To sum it up, it says "Do as I say, not as I do."

Don't want to get crushed by piracy? For ****s sake, learn how to take advantage of it already. It's not like this hasn't been said in the past either.

A.) People who do DJ digital files are more inclined to by them than those who don't. For a buck, you have no wait, no risk of mislabeling or errors, and high quality. Between all the ****ing geeks on this site, we've collectively got more storage space and bandwidth than we know what to ****ing do with. And it's not even expensive anymore. I just recently got a dedicated server with an 80GB HD and 1500 gigs bandwidth a month for $49 a month.
B.) People are still buying music, or pirating the graphics for them, posting info on discogs, etc. Take advantage of the minimal physical distribution you still have, along with all online distributions (legal and illegal) to hype a centralized store by and for the artists. All it would need is a mySQL database with pointers to media and a means of accepting credit cards. Then, from that server, you could distribute direct downloads through any server like the one I mention in A above. Cut the ****ing middle-men out of the digital. We don't need them.
C.) Spam the **** out of P2P. Don't wait for the kid to pirate your track and host it. Rather, make a number of different filenames that are similar and fake the bitrates. In other words, encode something to a 32kbit MP3. Then, take the 32kbit MP3 and encode to 320kbit, 256, 128, etc. It will still sound like shit and will make it harder to distinguish good from bad. Oh yeah, throw a link to the central server where the MP3 can be purchased in the media.
D.) Offer some free shit from the centralized site just to bring people in.
We all have the power to do this collectively and, at the very worst, offset some of the losses incurred by piracy and/or lack of vinyl sales. And it can co-exist with those of us who like to make music for free as well.

I can understand people getting pissed about unreleased tracks becoming available in advance. But, I'm just tired of seeing the repeated bashing on those of us who once showed great support with the bills we sank on records by some of the very people who post here, and then stopped buying those records when the technology advanced in a way that allowed us to play the most current and cutting edge music without having to wait for some ****ing label to determine that the time was finally right to release the sound. It pisses me off and it gets harder and harder for me to determine how genuine someone is being when they have no problem trashing that whole scene as, given that I'm not aware of anyone here that can pretend they haven't stolen in one way or another with this music, the moral tone is hollow and it seems like some people are getting more and more threatened by the notion that digital technology, free distribution, etc. has finally kicked a production revolution into gear, thus making "producers"
that sell music completely obsolete and unecesary to those who are happy with their own DIY methods.

Seriously, is the "theft" that really bothers people here who have a stake in this shit or is it more the fear of becoming obsolete that results in this MP3/Piracy rerun we see here all the time?

Great post man.
I`d be willing to get involved in some kind of collective online distribution site.
Even if it`s just throwing in some money.

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

Great post man.
I`d be willing to get involved in some kind of collective online distribution site.
Even if it`s just throwing in some money.

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that's really it, isn't it. techno needs its own version of itunes. itunes has proven that, as tocsin says, loads of people will pay for tracks as long as they are cheap and high-quality.

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Originally Posted by davethedrummer

vinyl sales are just going down anyway.
i accept that.
illegal downloads are helping the process
soon it will just not be worth spending the time and energy you need
to make music commercially in any way.
is that a good thing?

less musicians in the world = less music

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Less musicians?

You have to be kidding me, there’s literally hundreds of thousands of people getting into writing music every year right across the UK. There are community based (and funded) projects cropping up where anyone can get into making music. Shit I even saw an advert on the telly for reason not so long back

I work part time in a hospital and in the last 6 months I have met 4 people around my age, one writes DnB, one make techno (that makes 2 inc me??!) and one Dubstep and some other guy whos making bassline house. Om maybe none of us are real musicians but you get the idea. One has a full studio setup and the other guys are all pc based. Never the less I doubt that I would have just bumped into 4 artists at work 5-10 years ago like that

You think its all cming to an end? This is just the begining imo, we on the start of something new here. Those who make a living out of music may not be doing so soon, just like what happens in just about every trade out there. Bad, yes in a way but its just a fact of life that things are forever changing. What matters the most is the club scene and the quality of the music that’s coming out. Right now people are starting to realize those formulas they are sticking by aren’t working anymore. That’s a positive in my book, a big one at that.

If vinyl dies, if labels even die, it wont stop nothing, not as long as the internet is around. Its just going to root out the people who in this game with wrong intentions imo. Survival of the strongest

P.S I am not trying to sound like mr bigshot, I admint im a nobody but Im going to be around doing this untill i die because i ****ing love it

i love the idiot who says vinyl is overpriced!!!!! you know how much an artist makes for one of his own records?!?!?!

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Originally Posted by crime

it's the blind leading the blind

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quote of the year

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Originally Posted by deafmosaic

i love the idiot who says vinyl is overpriced!!!!! you know how much an artist makes for one of his own records?!?!?!

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yes we all do...its been explained to us 'stupid kids' already in this thread ;)

seriously though, the idea is to create a record that is more than just a piece of petrolium. ppl but the records because they want to hold a physical piece of the artist in their hands. this is why it is good to do concept records with full artwork covers etc and really concentrate on marketing, but at the same time it is so expensive to put art on your records and keep concepts intact that nowadays it becomes a vicious cycle...