Reinvention.

An interesting thing that came to me in another discussion.
Techno is getting on a bit now, in terms of it`s age.
I think it has reached a point of saturation now. The technology is easily accessed to make it. Everyone and anyone who thinks they should have a release is raising the readies for a small 300 run of pressings or whatever.
The over popularity of the DJ changed the nature of the music somewhat, and in some cirlces, turning the content from music, to tool.
And thus the ease of loop production has caused an even greater amount of loop based techno getting made, by people who may or may not be considered musicians (DJ`s), [yes, that is a touchy subject I know, burn me].

The point is, it feels like the scene is on the cusp of some kind of change.
What will that change be?
Will it just be musical or a much deeper change, reaching further into the nature of the scene?
Turntable sales are down
Vinyl sales are down (no one wants to be a DJ anymore, cos DJ`s aren`t "cool")
The digital (and piracy) era is changing the nature of distribution of the music, commercialy and publicly.
Computers are getting cheaper and cheaper.

What does the future hold for us.
or What are we doing to secure the future?

My opinion is, rather than deny what is happening, we need to embrace change and push the new. I have a lot of ideas, and it is a point for discussion that comes up more and more amongst our collective (londontechno collective).

I am extremely interested to hear other views, and what other people are doing, or are wanting to do.

And how can we help each other.

Bottom line the quality of the music has to improve and reflect the individuals passion to the music.
Not to say that stuff that is out now is trashy, but you have to do a f*ck load of a lot of thought and have some train of thought behind the music to make it stand off from the rest.
That is my opinion.
Individuality will bring forth change, the next generation will come and show and prove.
You had the Ur crew, Mills, May, and the Detroit crew, then the Swedes and the killer Uk sound.
I guess now we are the cusp of something bigger.
I hear a shitload of promising people coming to take the reigns
Jimfish, Bass, Dsp & Pauze, The Attack Mexicans, Gray, Ogi, The Mafia crew, Fernando, some of them are close associates and their focal view are to contribute man. Not personal gain. I can't wait to hear the music in the next two years man. I don't know about the business aspect much as far as vinyl not being cool, but if live pa's are the way of the future then F*ck it. Show and prove that you can rock a crowd with your own tracks.

sub-genres need to go away. they made record shopping more convenient, but i think over-classification of music raises a serious barrier to creativity

.

Good point. Maybe declassification and more of a mix of styles.

Well i'm one of those people who don't care what others say about how techno MUST sound.

This is a record comming out in january 2005, where i wanted to make a statement about not being limited to one type of sound:

SAMPLES:

Je Suis Ici.
A side: Orlando Voorn remix.
B side: Ritzi Lee original.



I know there are a lot of people on this board who don't agree this is techno. Techno must be hard and terror by defintion? They have all kinds of f*ck*d up sub genre names and so...
But please keep it simple. Let the people work on their own creative way to search for sounds... It's still a journey through the electronic mayhem. :)

its a massive subject this:

i'd like to think the people who do small projects are doing it from their own passion as opposed to gain - the example of a 300 press would justify this - picking up your own distribution and probabley giving the bulk of the press away.

techno has become so split in genres, but anybody who heres a mix by a class dj would note there is a progression in sound.

live pa's and live effects taht can be created with real equitment as opposed to mixer fx's are the bigegst thing i've heard in change.

dirtybass, you know what i mean when talking about the noises that seb mark was making the speakers churn out - that was fresh and something that people will embrace.

i also think with all of this technology etc people will want to play and push their music so an established underground sound will grow that will be the outlet centre for these artists, as the squat partys are/were for dj's.

better work now! :doh:

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know there are a lot of people on this board who don't agree this is techno. Techno must be hard and terror by defintion? They have all kinds of f*ck*d up sub genre names and so...
But please keep it simple. Let the people work on their own creative way to search for sounds... It's still a journey through the electronic mayhem.

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I think this is part of the problem. for me techno is really, almost undefineable, and is a style of music with huge diversity. but yes a lot of people do pin it down to sub sub sub genre`s.
I think the point for me is that a lot of people are just kinda ignoring the state of things, and the need to look at a bigger, long term picture.

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i'd like to think the people who do small projects are doing it from their own passion as opposed to gain - the example of a 300 press would justify this - picking up your own distribution and probabley giving the bulk of the press away.

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It`s a tough one this, cos really, doing your own pressing is real good thing to do, and I respect that. But also, in a way, I think it devalues the music as well somehow (in terms of anyone with a bit of cash, can press a record).
Maybe there should be more quality control at the distribution end?

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Originally Posted by Ritzi Lee

Well i'm one of those people who don't care what others say about how techno MUST sound.

This is a record comming out in january 2005, where i wanted to make a statement about not being limited to one type of sound:

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Sorry man I'm gonna have a bit of a go but only because you tried to plug one of your records in this thread and lead me to believe that i was gonna hear something revolutionary. This isnt reinvention this is still just dance music with a kick drum that goes 1234 and a hihat which goes on the offbeat with a few detroity stabs and notes. I understand that you probably expected a reaction but I think that this was just a shameless plug to get one.

No offence. I thought this thread would throw up some more interesting insights but I fear everyone is still stuck on the e merry go round and will just start bigging up the newest hard techno producers with the best eq & compression settings which means that for year another year it looks like people are going to be thinking that they are going somewhere without actually realsing that they are sinking in shit. How come every year we drag up this subject about 'no boundaries' and 'techno can be anything' people still make their ****ing songs go dum dum dum and tish tish tish and NEVER NEVER NEVER try and break out of the forever and always will be at 4/4 & 140 bpm black hole? huh? Change that.

No Ritzy music doesnt have to be all about terror and evil but at least the people who make music thats full of terror and evil try to throw away the rulebook and sound like
this

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Sorry man I'm gonna have a bit of a go but only because you tried to plug one of your records in this thread and lead me to believe that i was gonna hear something revolutionary. This isnt reinvention this is still just dance music with a kick drum that goes 1234 and a hihat which goes on the offbeat with a few detroity stabs and notes. I understand that you probably expected a reaction but I think that this was just a shameless plug to get one.

No offence. I thought this thread would throw up some more interesting insights but I fear everyone is still stuck on the e merry go round and will just start bigging up the newest hard techno producers with the best eq & compression settings which means that for year another year it looks like people are going to be thinking that they are going somewhere without actually realsing that they are sinking in shit. How come every year we drag up this subject about 'no boundaries' and 'techno can be anything' people still make their **** songs go dum dum dum and tish tish tish and NEVER NEVER NEVER try and break out of the forever and always will be at 4/4 & 140 bpm black hole? huh? Change that.

No Ritzy music doesnt have to be all about terror and evil but at least the people who make music thats full of terror and evil try to throw away the rulebook and sound like

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Ok that`s more like the kind of answers I was hoping for.
Spot on, sometimes I feel like shaking people, to wake them up to what is happening.

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No Ritzy music doesnt have to be all about terror and evil but at least the people who make music thats full of terror and evil try to throw away the rulebook and sound like
this

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Well, that`s not exactly groundbreaking either.
Throbbing gristle were doing that 20 years ago.
But the point is made.

Spot on yourself DB. But sometimes i feel thats its wrong people we are trying to shake up.

I'm not against 4/4 mixable techno but the sad fact is that it seems that its all people ever want it to be. I'm just gonna leave hard techno and apply my years of hard techno experience to something which isnt hard techno if you know what i mean.

PS: On the hard techno front I think the Divide is the only person that kicked ass this year (without having a complex about himself). Even though I dont play that type of music but he seems to be one of the few that that can drag people out of the hole & of course Grovskopa & Co.

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

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No Ritzy music doesnt have to be all about terror and evil but at least the people who make music thats full of terror and evil try to throw away the rulebook and sound like
this

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Well, that`s not exactly groundbreaking either.
Throbbing gristle were doing that 20 years ago.
But the point is made.

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I know I know everyting has been done before to some extent but few ever try to bring together everything that has been done before under one roof/album or mix which sort of pisses me off. They are either completely this or that never ambient/d'n'b/industrial/death/techno/minimal or whatever all at the same time.

More ****ing albums with broader scope less monthly 4 track releases with remixes by DJ Spanky and the same artwork with different lettering again and again. How about releasing 1 album ever year rather than a churning out the thinking process and ****ups in between?

I don`t consider the majority of techno albums to be proper albums.
there is rarely a concept, morew a collection of tracks.

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

I don`t consider the majority of techno albums to be proper albums.
there is rarely a concept, more a collection of tracks.

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aye. but lets not even get to carried away with the word 'concept' here . With bands\groups you get 12 tracks on an album every 2 years or so. Then you hear **** all from them. But at least that collection of tracks stands out a bit as an entity and you know that their latest latest songs wont be dumped on you continously every month until you or they die first from boredom.

So will you all please **** off\hide away and join\create a 'techno' or whatever band, bring back the personality, bring back the vocals/words (I'm sure you guys have something important to say other than boom boom boom), bring back the machines, make your own instruments, listen to ****loads of strange music, make an album and THEN hold it up for us all to see.


:rambo:

;)

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Originally Posted by massplanck

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

I don`t consider the majority of techno albums to be proper albums.
there is rarely a concept, more a collection of tracks.

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aye. but lets not even get to carried away with the word 'concept' here . With bands\groups you get 12 tracks on an album every 2 years or so. Then you hear **** all from them. But at least that collection of tracks stands out a bit as an entity and you know that their latest latest songs wont be dumped on you continously every month until you or they die first from boredom.

So will you all please **** off\hide away and join\create a 'techno' or whatever band, bring back the personality, bring back the vocals/words (I'm sure you guys have something important to say other than boom boom boom), bring back the machines, make your own instruments, listen to **** of strange music, make an album and THEN hold it up for us all to see.


:rambo:

;)

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You're still forgetting that of those 12 tracks.. probably 8-9 of them are filler.. and the other four WILL be "dumped" on you each month as the singles are released... this gets new people to go buy the album each time.

I'd rather have an EP from an artist each month where they have 1-2 bangable tracks. Each EP is it's own concept.

Let's see that adds up to... what 10-12
quality tracks from one artist in a year vs .. what 3-4 ?

I don't see doing big albums in larger intervals as a way to increase quality.. sorry :)

If you are producing quality then releasing often is not going to hurt the scene at all.

ok 2 bangable tracks from every artist a month it is then.

and none of this shit neither ...


http://www.slogun.com/sicknesslatvia2.jpg

I'm all down for LivePA etc etc man.. the only point I was trying to make is that releasing slower isn't going to help rejuvinate in and of itself... especially if you consider that the tracks on a big album are probably 1-2 years old..... Vinyl EP's already take hella lead time to get pressed anyway.

Again, if the quality is there it doesn't matter how you are churning it out.
I think we are making excuses by trying to blame things on the state of dj'ing vs LivePA vs whatever... when the fact of the matter is.. YOU are the one using the machines.... (unless you are Squarepusher.. then apparently the machines use you lol) and if you can't make fresh shit with em it's not anyone else's fault but your own.

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

I don`t consider the majority of techno albums to be proper albums.
there is rarely a concept, morew a collection of tracks.

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regarding this, it's almost unfortunate that i have to bring up mr. child because in these circles he's the poster child for Cool And New (which instantly degrades his genius) but i keep hoping i'll hear something that will do for me and my sense of techno what Force + Form did for me 5 years ago.

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Originally Posted by xfive

I'm all down for LivePA etc etc man.. the only point I was trying to make is that releasing slower isn't going to help rejuvinate in and of itself... especially if you consider that the tracks on a big album are probably 1-2 years old..... Vinyl EP's already take hella lead time to get pressed anyway.

Again, if the quality is there it doesn't matter how you are churning it out.
I think we are making excuses by trying to blame things on the state of dj'ing vs LivePA vs whatever... when the fact of the matter is.. YOU are the one using the machines.... (unless you are Squarepusher.. then apparently the machines use you lol) and if you can't make fresh shit with em it's not anyone else's fault but your own.

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Read what I said earlier. They key is not 'working by yourself/or blaming yourself if you cant use a particular machine' its meeting up with 3/4 like-minded people and forming something 'band' like and releasing the best thoughts/ideas of a few minds fused together once every so often. Let all the ego fights happen behing closed doors like they used to as opposed to in public on forums. ;) Let them all fight over whats good and whats not amongst themselves and then lets hear it.

How many techno groups can you name with more than 3 people? And more importantly how would the individual members of U2/Throbbing Gristle/The Beach Boys/The Bee Gees/ABBA or whoever sounded like if they had all gone off into their own little rooms and created one little individual band each containing no-one else but themselves and released stuff every month until hell froze over?

Lots and lots of thin music. Which is what we are stuck with.

;)

To MassPlanck and Dirty Bass:

I agree with you in most of your collective arguments.

I hate to bring macroeconomics into something like this, but I have to say that the global economy and in particular, the United States' economy, is putting a serious strain on the development, creation, and most importantly the distribution of new quality music (in general...not just techno) in, from my experience, the USA and probably Europe and South America. To me its a rather simple concept: Less people employed = less expendable income = less music purchases. Now, the idea here is not to say that we are supposed to be selling thousands of releases and makes tons of money because we all know that's not going to happen. What am I saying is that yes, there are still people that have expendable income for non-necessities such as new music, but those people typically are not in the cities (side note: I avoid making a hasty generalization here by using the word 'typically'). And typically if you don't live in the cities or at least around them, experimental [non-mainstream] music is not promoted or readily avaiable (internet is an exception, but is not nearly as effective as live acts or record stores). Moreover, the folks that are in the cities that may even be interested go out less and spend less on music; furthermore, clubs are closing, legislation is limiting (nationwide!), and music is limited mainly to what already "works" in some clubowners' eyes. Where I live especially, and on the West Coast we still have Nigel Richards playing 4 times a year. NIGEL RICHARDS! No offense, but it gets old after a while. But Nigel Richards is an example of what "works" at these clubs because they are guaranteed to make at least the money back on the bar. In conjunction with this point, promoters are less and less (including myself) involved in the club/party process because the risk is not worth or even equalling the reward. Many counter this with corporate sponsorships for some events, but those are few and far between because it can reflect bad on the company if say someone dies from an overdoes at the event...again, from the company's standpoint the risk is not worth the reward.

***I'm not attempting to turn this thread into a "What's wrong with the US scene" thread".***

So how do we fix this? I say we go back to [my] punk/hardcore roots and do it hescher-style (hescher is West Coast slang for "rough") with piling in a van and driving (yes, driving) from gig to gig passing out CDs, promos, or whatever wherever you stop. Even if you don't have a tour full of gigs, you have to start somewhere. Think of an underground rock band that tours and you'll get a better idea of what I mean. Plus, bring along your laptop (yes, i favor the laptop over a sh!tload of hardware) or two crates of records, some clothes and a lot of ramen noodles.

I want to also clarify that I DO believe there is quality music out there now. Not like techno needs some rebirth into the music world because it is already happening...People will need to soon adapt. Vinyl will always be there, but the dj won't...

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Originally Posted by massplanck

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Originally Posted by xfive

I'm all down for LivePA etc etc man.. the only point I was trying to make is that releasing slower isn't going to help rejuvinate in and of itself... especially if you consider that the tracks on a big album are probably 1-2 years old..... Vinyl EP's already take hella lead time to get pressed anyway.

Again, if the quality is there it doesn't matter how you are churning it out.
I think we are making excuses by trying to blame things on the state of dj'ing vs LivePA vs whatever... when the fact of the matter is.. YOU are the one using the machines.... (unless you are Squarepusher.. then apparently the machines use you lol) and if you can't make fresh shit with em it's not anyone else's fault but your own.

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Read what I said earlier. They key is not 'working by yourself/or blaming yourself if you cant use a particular machine' its meeting up with 3/4 like-minded people and forming something 'band' like and releasing the best thoughts/ideas of a few minds fused together once every so often. Let all the ego fights happen behing closed doors like they used to as opposed to in public on forums. ;) Let them all fight over whats good and whats not amongst themselves and then lets hear it.

How many techno groups can you name with more than 3 people? And more importantly how would the individual members of U2/Throbbing Gristle/The Beach Boys/The Bee Gees/ABBA or whoever sounded like if they had all gone off into their own little rooms and created one little individual band each containing no-one else but themselves and released stuff every month until hell froze over?

Lots and lots of thin music. Which is what we are stuck with.

;)

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Ah yes I did latch onto the part about the releasing of the albums and forgot to address your earlier comment.
I do agree with you on that one ;) If anything things such as this board and the internet as a whole will hopefully help us in this area. Maybe some damn good software will come out soon that will make virtual collaboration even better seeing as we don't all have 3-4 like-minded people around to work with... I'd be happy with even one :)

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Read what I said earlier. They key is not 'working by yourself/or blaming yourself if you cant use a particular machine' its meeting up with 3/4 like-minded people and forming something 'band' like and releasing the best thoughts/ideas of a few minds fused together once every so often. Let all the ego fights happen behing closed doors like they used to as opposed to in public on forums. Let them all fight over whats good and whats not amongst themselves and then lets hear it.

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That`s actually along my way of thinking. I`ve been working on something along this vain, with others, for a little while now.

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So how do we fix this? I say we go back to [my] punk/hardcore roots and do it hescher-style (hescher is West Coast slang for "rough") with piling in a van and driving (yes, driving) from gig to gig passing out CDs, promos, or whatever wherever you stop. Even if you don't have a tour full of gigs, you have to start somewhere. Think of an underground rock band that tours and you'll get a better idea of what I mean. Plus, bring along your laptop (yes, i favor the laptop over a sh!tload of hardware) or two crates of records, some clothes and a lot of ramen noodles.

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yes yes yes yes yes.
That`s what we need, mad, hectic, debauched, punk style techno road tours.
Bring the rig too, cos you need roadies, they make things even more mad.
I loved my days of being in a band and touring.

You're still forgetting that of those 12 tracks.. probably 8-9 of them are filler.. and the other four WILL be "dumped" on you each month as the singles are released... this gets new people to go buy the album each time.

I'd rather have an EP from an artist each month where they have 1-2 bangable tracks. Each EP is it's own concept.

Let's see that adds up to... what 10-12
quality tracks from one artist in a year vs .. what 3-4 ?

I don't see doing big albums in larger intervals as a way to increase quality.. sorry

If you are producing quality then releasing often is not going to hurt the scene at all.

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Maybe in the pop world.

But I`ve got countless albums that from start to finish are complete pieces of work. True art.

NIN, the downward spiral
God Machine, scenes from the second story
The Young Gods, Only Heaven, Second nature, and TV Sky
Massive Attack: 100th window
Curve, Cuckoo
Fluke, Risotto
Jeff Buckley
blah blah

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Totally and those are the ones that TRULY do shine!

But if we are talking a bit more into the realm of techno that we deal with on this board, I'm inclined to say similar things regarding filler about some (not all!! :)) full length albums I've heard (and I'm not gonna name any names). ;)

a travelling techno "sound system" sounds very romantic, but most people are too chicken shit to do it.

given the choice of working a day job to support your own music and selling T-shirts and stickers out of the back of your van after each gig, most people are going to pick the safe and secure answer, and as long as most people are doing one thing, anybody doing something else will have a tough row to hoe.

despite the glorification of the dj, the average raver is much less likely to fall into the cult of personality that bands usually capitalize on, and they would feel silly buying a T-shirt with your logo on it.

i don't know guys. i do feel like things need to change, but i'm pretty short on ideas. it's like we've painted ourselves into a corner.

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

That`s actually along my way of thinking. I`ve been working on something along this vain, with others, for a little while now.

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bang on. and theres about 6/7 of us in on something pretty different right now. But It will take time and a hell of a lot of effort to make it work.

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Originally Posted by Joseph Isaac

I say we go back to [my] punk/hardcore roots "

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:love:

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Originally Posted by Evil G

despite the glorification of the dj, the average raver is much less likely to fall into the cult of personality that bands usually capitalize on, and they would feel silly buying a T-shirt with your logo on it.

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but the average raver has stopped going to raves and now goes to see bands wearing his band logo t-shirt..

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Originally Posted by massplanck

No Ritzy music doesnt have to be all about terror and evil but at least the people who make music thats full of terror and evil try to throw away the rulebook and sound like
this

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well what do you expect man.
i mean it's still dance music.
maybe your problem is you think too much.
that's one thing that's oooo so wrong.
i mean, what are you trying to reach about thinking really hard about a new kinda sound?

ok you could vary BPM, sounds, etc etc

i listened your sample.
ok even this we can call techno.
it's a lot of noise and all... but i'm not really impressed.
how can you get excited about this??

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Originally Posted by massplanck

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Originally Posted by Evil G

despite the glorification of the dj, the average raver is much less likely to fall into the cult of personality that bands usually capitalize on, and they would feel silly buying a T-shirt with your logo on it.

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but the average raver has stopped going to raves and now goes to see bands wearing his band logo t-shirt..

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is that what happened to them? maybe. around here it seems like they are just staying home and listening to infected mushroom cds.

Some great arguements and opinons....nothing new to add but just reflecting.....

Its something that i must think about, as eventually i want to be bringing something new to the table like everyone... and i do sit there and think of this...

As DB said, djing is almost becoming 'un-cool'.... and there are that many dj's out there, its obviously not impossible to do as in mixing-wise, techniques etc. For me when i see a dj though, musicality is the main thing i focus on and intelligence of it i guess and that isnt always to ones taste, therefore fresh djs can maybe help in that sense....

But technology has taken a leap forward advancing to Ableton which is great, definately bringing out more creativeness musically.

I like the idea of a band.... could really bring some energy for performance too and add to atmosphere. And the idea of many creative minds joining forces to create masterpieces is divine.

I duno think im talking shite...should sleep

Remember Stardancer? The Juan Atkins mix of Strings of Life? More recenctly Knight's of the Jaguar, Funk d' Void's Diabla, Oxia's Trossieme, Deetron's Miss Suave? Now forget whether these tune's could be concieved as 'commercial' for a minute - they are techno, and they do rock, and they have taken techno beyond the boundries of the techno fraternity (mainly to the prog boys, but hey). They are all pieces of music in their own right, not just loop - stabs - filter - delay on the stab - end, and they all have one thing in common, a melody.

These guys may not be doing anything absolutely mindblowingly original or ground breaking, but they are appealing to a wider audience due to substance and - dare I say it - a good feeling in the groove. There's no anger in them tunes, and as much as I think Speedy J rocks an' all, it's a specialist market that he attracts, and a lot of "ordinary" people just won't get it. End of.

Whereas most people understand happy.

Alot of people make techno to an already established blueprint that they percieve to be the "correct" way, giving a certain mood, mostly a dark mood. People will always want that mood to dance to, but at the moment they are in the minority.

AudioInjection made some waves in the Production Filez section recently with his lush, melodic take on techno, which gave me alot of hope, and confidence to try more melodic stuff myself. Alot of people make music that is acceptable to their peers (I'm as guilty as anyone), and that's what's holdin techno back, imho.

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Originally Posted by Ritzi Lee

i mean, what are you trying to reach about thinking really hard about a new kinda sound?

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silly me. :doh: I must be in the wrong thread.

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Ritzi Lee wrote:


i mean, what are you trying to reach about thinking really hard about a new kinda sound?

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Artistically:the only way is forward, standing still or looking back is pointless.
Musically: trying to keep things fresh, so people don`t get bored and walk away.

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

I don`t consider the majority of techno albums to be proper albums.
there is rarely a concept, morew a collection of tracks.

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I would have to agree with this point - six to eight club tracks and a bit of ambient / electro / breakbeat / whatever to prove that not every track has to have a 4/4 kick drum (and to prove the artist's own "broad vision") does not make an album.

My personal opinion on the subject - three main reasons why techno seems to be stuck in the loophole:

- most novice (and, more alarmingly, even established) techno producers want to sound like someone else, which is not really creative... People think that they aren't gonna get signed unless they conform to a certain "sound" - are you in it for the music or what?

- most people in the techno scene have their own definition of what techno really is, forgetting that techno is only about one rule - "Innovate" ... They think it's "make 'em dance... using every means necessary", but the same shit isn't gonna make 'em dance forever... I also love Ken Ishii's statement "To me, all electronic music is techno" which means that "techno" is open to all kinds of genre-crossing and experimentation

- genre-bashing inside the techno scene... Probably because of the many subgenres that people invent to classify what they're hearing... To me, techno became interesting because it couldn't be classified and you couldn't describe it with words (not very well, anyway)... Now it's like "Oh yeah, that's wonky-techno"

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

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Ritzi Lee wrote:


i mean, what are you trying to reach about thinking really hard about a new kinda sound?

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Artistically:the only way is forward, standing still or looking back is pointless.
Musically: trying to keep things fresh, so people don`t get bored and walk away.

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I have nothing against reaching bounderies. :)
But the "thinking" part just doesn't FEEL right when you talk about music.
One step in the right direction would be to disnarrow the typical categorisation system in techno.

That when you walk in a record store,
you really have to listen record by record.
And not thinking like: "I have enough of these kind".

There was one argument a while ago in an old topic by Mark EG:
Listen some other sh*t like Jazz or rock or something else.
You would be amazed how much inspiration you get outof other music. :)
You would still be amazed how interesting an old James Brown or Prince album would sound. :)

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Maybe there should be more quality control at the distribution end?

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yes - also artists should have their own concern of quality - if its not right - don't put it out..

also distribution by yourself will somewhat show the quality - if you cant get rid of it - its not any cop! :crackup: or the market isn't their.

there is so many new labels starting etc etc, but all we here is vinyl sales are down.. is this constant label shifting trying to keep those of us who still buy looking around?

when i talk of new labels etc - i mainly mean that hard german stuff.

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There was one argument a while ago in an old topic by Mark EG:
Listen some other sh*t like Jazz or rock or something else.
You would be amazed how much inspiration you get outof other music.
You would still be amazed how interesting an old James Brown or Prince album would sound.

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Yes this is true.
I very rarely listen to techno when I am not at a party, unless I am shopping.
I spend most of my time listening to modern composers these days :shock:

Lets hear more folks.

could "real sounds" as in sampled noises other than the world of instruments be used to make a track - i'm not sure if that makes sense - but i'll explain sunday! :doh:

so no drum... maybe the sound of a heavy object being dropped.. kind of like industrial sounds - but real sounds as opposed to real instrument sounds.

oh - shut up rog :doh:

There already is a pretty prolific genre of music called "found sounds"
I`ve done a bit myself, but it never really has the power.
But a change of pallette is always good.
The amount of people still using the sounds of the 909 and 808 as their main percussion is a little worrying considering that techno is supposed to be progressive. Hearing mills making tracks that still use the old toms and snares etc is a little worrying. There is so much technology out there that needs to be abused.
There are new synths now that use a CPU neural net!!!
I`m dying to know what kinda sounds they make.

Yeah too bad those Neurons are expensive... hopefully the VST they put out will be decent... it's a great way of experiencing the technology without spending 5k on hardware.

And I agree with the sad state of affairs when it comes to using old drum machines...
Hell 90% of the samples I use are from old drummers and drum kits.. and stuff like that.. totally acoustic.. It's all about knowledge of sound mangling :rambo:
Taking non-techno sounds and making them techy as f*$k :)

i surpose my idea was just like tthose kind of charity steel bands playing bins! :oops:

he he - i'll get my coat :dontevengothere:

I made an entire drum set out of sampling myself hitting an empty coke can.

i think looking back is important. many genres of music like classical and jazz have had so many new ideas pumped into them as time has gone by its easy to take inspiration. things like polyrhythms get discussed like they are new, but they have been used by traditional hand drummers for years.

how important is technology in all of this, i suppose one of the fundamental aspects of techno ( at least when it first came out) was 808 or 909 drum machines. nowadays i think software has already revolutionised the techno business. it allows lots more people to join the bandwagon and have a go.i think people are becoming less specialist and its required to have all skills involved with making & playin tracks if u are to stand out from the crowd or at least to earn money from it.