same techno story.... imitators ¬¬

Slobodan said in other topic of this forum:

i too dont really see what did this reviewer wanted to say. cant really see the link with NerVioLence's music and reeko's but hey. seems like hes sayin reeko should do something like this nervio guy, wich i, personaly, didnt like, but that doesnt matter. i agree with him that reeko's story is turning out to be a sad one. so much talent wasted on doin the same shit over..and over and over...------------------------------

Now I say:

I agree with slobodan: reeko -among others-...... are just making the same thing all time... just cooking a formula that is not brave now. I´m not on that way.... I CAN´T.

tHere is already a Regis, already a Surgeon..... if you want, already a Wunch. But please... no more same story like slobodan said... that´s sad.

For example I like Rodz-konez, by Makaton...... a good and imaginative artist. He has a strong influence over me in TiJJera Nerviolence, although perhaps my work goes beyond commercial protocols in a more radical way. Sincerely I think I pay no attention to the fact that my traks could be easily played by djs... not much attention. It doesnt matter for me.

I can ´paint´, create, techno in a more or less lineal way -although I declare myself multitextured antilenal or medlineal - but I think that 100 X 100 lineal...... it´s a bit poor! :) in my opinion

We can enrich techno beyond a merely cool powerful loop.

Man !?!? :shock: :shock: :lol:
Am trying to think if this would make more sense to me in Spanish...

*Pent is thinking hard*

Nope, sorry.... ;)

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Originally Posted by penthesilea

Man !?!? :shock: :shock: :lol:
Am trying to think if this would make more sense to me in Spanish...

*Pent is thinking hard*

Nope, sorry.... ;)

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i get thu just of it but cmon hes spanish so aint gonna get it perfect.

hes just saying there producers sticking to the smae formula and want a discussion on how NOT to.....

i hope i picked it up alright, if not......pfffft

Quote:

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Originally Posted by penthesilea

Man !?!? :shock: :shock: :lol:
Am trying to think if this would make more sense to me in Spanish...

*Pent is thinking hard*

Nope, sorry.... ;)

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i get the just of what hes trying to say but cmon hes spanish so he aint gonna get it perfect.

i think that hes saying that there are producers out ther that are sticking to the same formula and he wants a discussion on how NOT to.....

i hope i picked it up alright, if not......pfffft


my first post was wak

Yeah, Gumpy green is right :) He understands me XD

My english is not perfect.... true..... I try!

NRV.

Was just taking the piss... :oops:

man I love spanish, english is not my mother tongue either so I understand how sometimes, it makes sense in your original language more than in the "translated" version...

it's the
"I can ´paint´, create, techno in a more or less lineal way -although I declare myself multitextured antilenal or medlineal - but I think that 100 X 100 lineal...... " that cracked me up...

yes, no problem.. my words construction was confuser...

I explain: I can create tecno structures that are more or less lineal. In fact I do it, but I don´t like 100x100 lineal stuff. May be I like to dj it, or to dance it, but not produce it. Cause I prefer more complex structures, in fact I need it, I get boring if I´m treating the same loop with no changes along the track. I´m nervous....;)

Thats because I declare myself as multitextured-antilineal techno craft.

Anyway this is not an attack to lineal 4x4. Cause I love works like the first Downwards for example (gymnastics, speak to me...) and in fact, that´s a part of the TECHNO nature. I also like minimalism, and I like to enjoy a cool loop during 1 hour in case it´s really good and mental (you know that feeling of getting inside a trance...)

I just think it´s possible to enrich structures with changes and breaks.

Agree with all your points there chap!

In english, instead of 100x100 say 100% or 100 percent ;)

I do understand...
;) As an artist (of any kind), you always want to improve on what you've done, go forward, explore new possibilities...

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Originally Posted by penthesilea

I do understand...
;) As an artist (of any kind), you always want to improve on what you've done, go forward, explore new possibilities...

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this simply isn't true in this genre. people sell a few records and the settle into mediocrity.

actually it's true of any genre.. anyways.. you use the word artist.. funny cause i don't see art very much in techno anymore.

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Originally Posted by Adverse

Quote:

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Originally Posted by penthesilea

I do understand...
;) As an artist (of any kind), you always want to improve on what you've done, go forward, explore new possibilities...

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this simply isn't true in this genre. people sell a few records and the settle into mediocrity.

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I disagree, only with the omission of the word 'Most'

There are still innovators, they just aren't lauded yet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adverse

actually it's true of any genre.. anyways.. you use the word artist.. funny cause i don't see art very much in techno anymore.

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mm... sounds like you a bit cynical about it all...
there's always gonna be people who do for the beauty of it and people who do it for the money...

What's art? What's not?
far too subjective a subject to ever get a definitive answer...

fine.. i mean i've had or at least try to have that conversation "what is art where does techno take it's place"
and yes it's far too subjective. well. techno is just that as well.. far too subjective and it tends or at least does move into complete and absolute regurgitation. cynical maybe.. objective sounds much better.

schlong.. yes there are a few but as you said they are so far under the earth you'd need a drilling operation to locate them.

i'd love to have the what is art and what is techno place in it conversation the only people i've ever had it with were luka baumann and dirty bass. two people i do consider techno artists.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adverse

schlong.. yes there are a few but as you said they are so far under the earth you'd need a drilling operation to locate them.

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hehe, that's the fun bit :D

I didn't mean to be dismissive when I said cynical.
Maybe i'm too naive?

And I am no techno producer, I don't make music so I don't feel am well placed to talk about "is this or that tune art or not"...

But i am an artiste in other ways (very small ones) and the answer I like the most to "what is art" is this one: if it provoque an emotion in somebody, it is art... It doesn't have to be beautifull, but it makes you feel something...

so it's in the eyes of the viewer really...
Or in the hears of the listener... :eh:

I assume techno as music and music as art, in general.

The key aspect is that there are a lot of qualities in that art. A lot of times it's merely business thing... That's a common thing in the music industry.

In the tecno scene, a lot of times what happens is that producers make tracks which works just as dj tools.

Anyway, that's always a creative consequence. I repeat> the key thing is the quality result of that creative behaviour. But this...as Adverse said, can be something subjective.

I seriously take electronic music and specially techno as an art. The main aspect is the way you create it.

basic hardtechno, powerful, harsh... (good, I like it)

or more complex constructions, diverse elements, details, layers... This is the way of xploring and enhancing ... achieving something personal.

There is a so big open field for the creativity!

I think mere imitators can be good sound engineers, good sounds producers... but not really good ARTISTS.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by penthesilea

if it provoque an emotion in somebody, it is art... It doesn't have to be beautifull, but it makes you feel something...

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;)

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Originally Posted by fatcollective

Quote:

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Originally Posted by penthesilea

if it provoque an emotion in somebody, it is art... It doesn't have to be beautifull, but it makes you feel something...

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;)

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i know, I know, it probably sound naff hey... :oops: ;)

no its sound good actually, it makes sense :lol:

If something makes you feel bad it can also be classed as art. However art is open to different interpetations. What will make one person feel great will make another feel bad.

This is why music of any genre is also an art from. However instead off the eyes receiving the stymulus it is your ears. All good art should have meaning to it. It isn't just about the face value properties its about a deeper meaning. I notice this with a few artists around these days. There music can be taken at face value however if you delve deeper there can often be hidden deeper meanings. This to me is what can really make the difference between a good tune and a classic.

Sorry if i've rambled or confused you but i used to study 'fine art photography' so im quite into this sort of stuff

There is a so big open field for the creativity!

I think mere imitators can be good sound engineers, good sounds producers... but not really good ARTISTS.[/quote]


TOO RIGHT!!!! :clap: :clap:

its just the classic age old problem that alot of artists have..... Reeko got good with his tracks and people went mad for what he done, so he did some more and more until people realised "this is almost the same as the last one!" and slowly one by one people change their opinions and next thing he's not the hero everyone thinks, but lazy and uncreative.... this isnt my personal opinion as ive never really gotten into reeko's stuff and i cudnt point out one from the other, but this seems to be the general feeling here

it happens to lots and lots of people, not just reeko, it just so happens he's been singled out for this debate, but it is sad yes, but what i dont agree with is comparing someone's work to someone else's like what happened in the review, and especially the person who put it up. it looks and has a feeling of egotism about it (and i know the artist didnt write the review), but it still reeks of a "look at this, someone said im better than Reeko" attitude..

but, yeah, it is a shame that people get stuck in these creative ruts and i guess its up to the individual artist to realise this and do what they can to shake things up again

Ok, well, going back to the first post in this thread.

The whole delinear, not doing it for D`s etc thing.
Yeah, ok, fine.
If you`r not doing it for DJ`s, then why are you doing a vinyl label. If it`s music for listening, then vinyl is just cutting your audience to a niche.
If you are intending it to get played at a club, which I know you are, then you have to consider the DJ in some way.
Other wise, it won`t get played.
Then it just becomes stubborn stupidity, and not art.

As for the whole art/techno question. I`ve really dug into myself over this now.
Basically, there is very little originality left in techno now. 90% of it is regurgitation. But there is only so much you can do with the old Boom Tish.
I`ve actually been tearing myself apart over this for a while now. Because musically I want to spread out, but I also still love the power of dance music.

And therein lies the thing of the thing.
Dance music needs some kind of predictability, otherwise it just doesn`t work. If the beats were just random, then no-one would dance.
The dancer needs to know there is some consistency, so they can get into the flow, and lose themselves to the dance. It`s an ancient and primal thing.

So you can innovate within dance floor techno, but it becomes increasing difficult, as everything has been done before, and you have to retain some element of predictability and consistancy, and slowly, the real innovative stuff, gets closer to the line where techno crosses over from a dance music, into an art.

I think the natural evolutotion of this edge of techno, is to move out of the dancefloor/night club, where people just wanna dance, and into the "Gig" area, into band venues (such as the Astoria in london for example) where people are there for music, and also, maybe to dance to some of it.
Personally, I`m going to do both. I`m going to carry on making dance music for the tribal dances that go on in clubs and free parties. But I am also going to move into the more musical and experimental side of techno, but I`m certainly not doing it and expecting it to get played in a dance club.



I apologise for any repatition. I`ve had beer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Noizic_Ignasis

Slobodan said in other topic of this forum:

i too dont really see what did this reviewer wanted to say. cant really see the link with NerVioLence's music and reeko's but hey. seems like hes sayin reeko should do something like this nervio guy, wich i, personaly, didnt like, but that doesnt matter. i agree with him that reeko's story is turning out to be a sad one. so much talent wasted on doin the same shit over..and over and over...------------------------------

Now I say:

I agree with slobodan: reeko -among others-...... are just making the same thing all time... just cooking a formula that is not brave now. I´m not on that way.... I CAN´T.

tHere is already a Regis, already a Surgeon..... if you want, already a Wunch. But please... no more same story like slobodan said... that´s sad.

For example I like Rodz-konez, by Makaton...... a good and imaginative artist. He has a strong influence over me in TiJJera Nerviolence, although perhaps my work goes beyond commercial protocols in a more radical way. Sincerely I think I pay no attention to the fact that my traks could be easily played by djs... not much attention. It doesnt matter for me.

I can ´paint´, create, techno in a more or less lineal way -although I declare myself multitextured antilenal or medlineal - but I think that 100 X 100 lineal...... it´s a bit poor! :) in my opinion

We can enrich techno beyond a merely cool powerful loop.

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Seriously not feeling the approach on this whole topic.
Surely looking to be one deleted soon.
And to clear something up.
That is not Slobodan, actually reminds me a lot of bornaa.

Matter of fact,
Loop or not. It is music and you dance to it.
I think as producers some of us have lost sight as to why some of our music is played.
To make people f*cking dance.
We are not here to put on a black turtle neck sit in a club and act all depressed about how this song sucks and i cannot wait to see how much the next song sucks ass.
Unless you are some of the greats in this game(objective to each person)
You have no room to talk.
Especially to single out someone like Reeko, I'm not into his stuff much, but I respect his gangsta as a producer. He's got more vinyl out than I
do. Bottom line get off the high horse and read the forum rules before you self promote and single out someone who is most likely younger than you are and making moves.

word

well said guys

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

Ok, well, going back to the first post in this thread.

The whole delinear, not doing it for D`s etc thing.
Yeah, ok, fine.
If you`r not doing it for DJ`s, then why are you doing a vinyl label. If it`s music for listening, then vinyl is just cutting your audience to a niche.
If you are intending it to get played at a club, which I know you are, then you have to consider the DJ in some way.
Other wise, it won`t get played.
Then it just becomes stubborn stupidity, and not art.

As for the whole art/techno question. I`ve really dug into myself over this now.
Basically, there is very little originality left in techno now. 90% of it is regurgitation. But there is only so much you can do with the old Boom Tish.
I`ve actually been tearing myself apart over this for a while now. Because musically I want to spread out, but I also still love the power of dance music.

And therein lies the thing of the thing.
Dance music needs some kind of predictability, otherwise it just doesn`t work. If the beats were just random, then no-one would dance.
The dancer needs to know there is some consistency, so they can get into the flow, and lose themselves to the dance. It`s an ancient and primal thing.

So you can innovate within dance floor techno, but it becomes increasing difficult, as everything has been done before, and you have to retain some element of predictability and consistancy, and slowly, the real innovative stuff, gets closer to the line where techno crosses over from a dance music, into an art.

I think the natural evolutotion of this edge of techno, is to move out of the dancefloor/night club, where people just wanna dance, and into the "Gig" area, into band venues (such as the Astoria in london for example) where people are there for music, and also, maybe to dance to some of it.
Personally, I`m going to do both. I`m going to carry on making dance music for the tribal dances that go on in clubs and free parties. But I am also going to move into the more musical and experimental side of techno, but I`m certainly not doing it and expecting it to get played in a dance club.



I apologise for any repatition. I`ve had beer.

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feeling that... agree with everything you said ther.

i think itll be very hard but not impossible to do something TOTALLY unique with techno and will only be done by very few folk......ther always one or 2 genuises about....

even if its not groundbreaking it can still please the listerer/clubber a great deal....

some of the most simple rifts can sound "better" than a very complex one....

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

I think the natural evolutotion ...



I apologise for any repatition. I`ve had beer.

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muahahahaha

feck it, you try writing your artistic/philosophical opinions about the battle between art/commercialism/dancefloor and your own place within it, when you`ve been on a tequila and beer mission with your mates at lunchtime, for no other reason than to celebrate the fact that you survived the weekend.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SummerOfSam

Seriously not feeling the approach on this whole topic.
Surely looking to be one deleted soon.
And to clear something up.
That is not Slobodan, actually reminds me a lot of bornaa.

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:lol: :clap: Glad someone else sees that.

yah ,well slobodan is very common serbian name, so....

summerofsam you want to lock and delete the only conversation that makes sense, way to go!

music is made so people can dance to it? you are such an intelectual! :clap:

yeah what slobodan has said is very true for me, I connect with that idea> e-music is oftenly written -among others objectives- to make people dance. Just that, cool.

I think it's possible to keep a more intelectual/brainy/nerd point of view, and a more light/funny/party way of taking that music.

Two ways of thinking at the same time.

I like art, I like music, I like to dance techno that rocks me. What I don't like is snob people :cool: :roll:

I think a lot of you will agree with that.

regards!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

feck it, you try writing your artistic/philosophical opinions about the battle between art/commercialism/dancefloor and your own place within it, when you`ve been on a tequila and beer mission with your mates at lunchtime, for no other reason than to celebrate the fact that you survived the weekend.

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i'm still laughing..

dude, why are they talking about reeko with nirviolence? just listened to nirviolence and it was pretty bad.

dunno.. some kind of new promotional tool :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slobodan

yah ,well slobodan is very common serbian name, so....

summerofsam you want to lock and delete the only conversation that makes sense, way to go!

music is made so people can dance to it? you are such an intelectual! :clap:

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You're such a dick, nothings changed.
Didn't you get banned once already?
I'll pull your card bro.

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Originally Posted by deafmosaic

dude, why are they talking about reeko with nirviolence? just listened to nirviolence and it was pretty bad.

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Well if we are going into the whole "He's better than him business" - I heard "Against Ibiza" and it's as strong as any of the early ones you had on Sheep. He's a new producer who I think makes good techno, cut him a bit of slack I reckon. What I like about this record is that it's experimental, something 95% of hard techno records fail to be.

Thank you Sunil for your support,

No problem with the different tastes and opinions, that´s natural. I have one Sheep by Gunjack there.... cool stuff.

I think Tjj03 is a good record with good ideas and progressions. I don´t know if I´m experimental or not.... I say that I just make nervous music :D

Sunil... as I told you: if you like the experimental edge of Tjj03 I suggest you to listen the tjj02, which is in my opinion harder and heavier in that aspect.

no i wasnt saying reeko was better bro, i was just wondering why all the talk ablout these guys was linked to juan....... i personally just didnt like the nirviolence stuff.

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Originally Posted by deafmosaic

no i wasnt saying reeko was better bro, i was just wondering why all the talk ablout these guys was linked to juan....... i personally just didnt like the nirviolence stuff.

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Yeah, see what you mean. The whole bringing Reeko into it was kind of odd alright.