That word 'Experimental'

Do people throw this word about a bit too much when there is actually bugger all experimental about something. To me 'experimental music' would mean er recording lots of cats shitting onto tape and then making them eat the tape and then recording the sound coming out their asses or something like that. :shock: Maybe a better example would be the audio installations & stuff that Laurie Anderson does with microphones & speakers.

When people say "we should be getting more *experimental* with techno" dont they just mean more *musical* . For example if someone here suggested that we should try and make techno with a 7/5 time signature people would call that 'experimental' where as to a jazz musician it would just be another time signature amoungst others. Same goes for song arrangements. When someone breaks out of the mould slighty they are sometimes labeled as 'experimental' when all they are doing is rejecting the narrow ecstasy influenced norm.

Thoughs?

Its about the process I guess. Music that has been made in a different way to other music.. An artist experimenting doesn't always make experimental music, often its a way of finding new sounds and methods. You could sample the cats shitting on tape and use it in a banging techno track, innit?

Can you explain the "musical" thing? Its another thing people bandy about. Just let me know a few techno records or artists you consider musical.

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Originally Posted by ncw

Can you explain the "musical" thing? Its another thing people bandy about. Just let me know a few techno records or artists you consider musical.

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all of them ;)

I sort of mean it in a hard-techno context seeing as this is boa.

er. say you got a 'band' drummer. guitarist & bass player to play a short phrase over and over again (say three chords) your ears wouldnt tire of it as fast as say a loop on sequencer because the timing & velocity of the notes they play are never going to repeat themselves exactly. Thats what makes music 'interesting' to me .. the little nuances & irregualarities.

That aside. When I say 'musical' maybe I mean producers should stop worrying about the need to make records easy for DJ's to mix etc

good topic. i really dislike the term "experimental" when paired with music. i think it actually de-values what it actually is.

innovative music is no experiment.

Id love to hear a cat shitting

But apart from that...

in a brief summary what would u describe as experimental then?

Is it the creative means in which audio is made? or the type of sound?

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Originally Posted by miss bass

Id love to hear a cat shitting

But apart from that...

in a brief summary what would u describe as experimental then?

Is it the creative means in which audio is made? or the type of sound?

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I dont really know. Trying to figure it out myself. :neutral

Im confused

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Originally Posted by ncw

Can you explain the "musical" thing? Its another thing people bandy about. Just let me know a few techno records or artists you consider musical.

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I've noticed quite a few artists are being much more 'musical' with there production recently. To name a few ant, dave the drummer & dirty bass. You can tell when you listen to there music that they have an undersranding of music principles such as chords, keys etc. There are plenty more out there as.

so is it more experimental to be musical.... hmm but being musical is in every genre so ...

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Originally Posted by miss bass

Im confused

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well I dont know. as I said some of the stuff Laurie Anderson does with say 50 speakers twirling above your head encircling you in an ocean of sound I would consider experimental but thats not really the sort of thing you could (or would|) capture on a CD or Vinyl.

I think col is right. Innovative is probably a better word to use for people who deviate a bit from the norm.
Sorry I have just seen a few labels & artists on discogs who seem to think they are experimenal but I dont see how they are experimenting if you know what i mean. Then again I doubt Discogs would add the word innovative to their list of genres.

[quote="massplanck"]

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Originally Posted by miss bass

Im confused

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well I dont know. as I said some of the stuff Laurie Anderson does with say 50 speakers twirling above your head encircling you in an ocean of sound I would consider experimental but thats not really the sort of thing you could (or would|) capture on a CD or Vinyl.

quote]

Thats madness, i seriously have to research this person.

I definately would say that is experimental, i mean its a totally creative thing to do compared to the norm and maybe the fact you wouldnt capture it on cd/ vinyl emphasises that?

I duno my head hurts

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Originally Posted by miss bass

so is it more experimental to be musical.... hmm but being musical is in every genre so ...

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I dont know about that. Whats musical about a genre where for the most part everysong is between 138-144bpm always in 4/4 and easy for a dj to mix with not timing changes or complications? Seem like a hell of a lot of musical parameters are being left out of the equation to me. But then again i suppose if it didnt sound like this it would be classed as something totally different

I find alot of glitchy stuff / some vogel & tarrida more 'musical' because there is generally a looser focus on exact timing and more notes\nuances flying about

I cam probably talking out my ass now (must sample that)

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Originally Posted by massplanck

I cam probably talking out my ass now (must sample that)

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See now your talking sense.... :P

i meant like pop music uses chords etc or jazz or rock etc etc i was kinda being general 'theyre all musical' i just meant its nothing new basically if chords etc are being used....... But ive got poop coming out my mouth right now.

making music is experimental isn't it?

[quote="massplanck"]

I find alot of glitchy stuff / some vogel & tarrida more 'musical' because there is generally a looser focus on exact timing and more notes\nuances flying about

quote]

Yeh i get ya, I guess thats being more creative musically then because of the rhythms etc....

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Originally Posted by detfella

making music is experimental isn't it?

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well it depends as what you class as music

(hehe im trying to sound clever now :roll: )

imo, music is just organised noise

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Originally Posted by miss bass

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Originally Posted by massplanck

I cam probably talking out my ass now (must sample that)

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See now your talking sense.... :P

i meant like pop music uses chords etc or jazz or rock etc etc i was kinda being general 'theyre all musical' i just meant its nothing new basically if chords etc are being used....... But ive got poop coming out my mouth right now.

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I sort of mean it in an arrangement sense too. A metal song for example can have 3/4 parts in it where lets say they slow down for a break or bridge. Then they stop for er 2.3 seconds and bang in the chorus faster. The track doesnt seem to lose any energy nor does it cause metalers to run around going THIS IS MAD EXPERIMENTAL HEAVY METAL MUSIC!!!

thats far out dude

[quote="massplanck"]

I sort of mean it in an arrangement sense too. quote]

yesh yesh

i dunno. I'm not really trying to find an exect explanation when it come to using the words experiment & music together. Detfella is sorta right though. Since every piece of music is for the most part a unique thing then that must mean all music is experimental. :neutral: I'll get my coat.

This whole thread is a little picky.
In a music based on regimental rhythms and repetition.
The word experimental is easy to come by, when someone breaks from the norm.
For me, expermenting is exactly that. I try to try things I`ve never done before, and incorporate them into my music.
Call it what you will.
It`s the difference between trying to make you`re tune sound like "Dj X", or trying to find your own sound.

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

This whole thread is a little picky.
In a music based on regimental rhythms and repetition.
The word experimental is easy to come by, when someone breaks from the norm.
For me, expermenting is exactly that. I try to try things I`ve never done before, and incorporate them into my music.
Call it what you will.
It`s the difference between trying to make you`re tune sound like "Dj X", or trying to find your own sound.

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Fair enough, But I dont think that that would qualify it as 'experimental' music if you know what I mean. Dont mean to be picky just pondering and letting turds spill out my mouth as ever. Its good to talk.

Btw DB I dont feel that techno has to have regimental rhythms & lots of repetition in order to make people dance. But it helps ;)

Experimental techno and experimental music, are 2 different things.
I got loads of experimental music, and you can`t dance to it.

I don`t feel it has to be regimental.
But for the most part, it is.

I do whole heartedly recommend that any producer trying to get ahead in techno, tries to experiment and do something different, in every session they have in the studio.
As too many people seem to try to emulate records that have already been made.

I wouldn`t say that moving the kick drum to a non "on the 4" is particularly experimental either, if you still approach it in the same way as 4x4. Which I hear a lot of people doing.

But it can help change the whole peice you are doing, if you work off of it.

You can still be innovative within the 4 to the floor format though too.

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

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You can still be innovative within the 4 to the floor format though too.

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in that case i'm waiting to hear some hard-glitch from you guys ;)

Maybe not.

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

Maybe not.

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and why not?

Experimental music imo is music made using un tryed or new techniques. Bassically it can be anything which uses sound in a new and 'experimental' way

how about some techno tracks in 6/8 or 5/4? i've got one i'm working on...amon tobin's done it on some non-dancy tracks...

i love the word experimental. it's very cutting edge

i am a massive fan of experimental music. whether it is avant garde, electronic, whatever. love the word, love the ethos. it has a massive place in techno. cristian vogel (his recent stuff) and aphex twin are two massive purveyors of this sound in our genre imho. love this word, love the feeling it creates. experiment = go forward = make better.

respect to the experi mentalists!!

yes, I think in a genre with very little experimentation, and a lot of people just emulating the artists they respect, even the slightest change from the norm, in the genre of techno, could be considered experimental.
More producers in techno should try to do their own thing, rather than try to fit in to the current "in" sound, or to emulate their heroes.