how much can techno "progress?"

some great debate in here on where techno should go, how it should develop, etc. seems like opinion is divided into three camps:

a) techno as a style has been defined, and, at this point, can/should only refine an/multiple established sound(s). techno, musically, is in good health

b) techno has generally been defined as a style, but there is still lots of room for good and healthy experimentation within those parameters, without which it will stagnate and grow sick (or it already has)

c) techno can and should reinvent itself; it's a sick beast right now

eveyrone's thoughts?

B. Without a doubt.
Altho I would not say techno is in a poor state(some techno peoples attitudes are)but it allways has to be pushing forward musicaly there are no boundries but there is a certain amount of rules if you whant to keep it techno(or good techno)
In my opinien if you make or play techno you should be trying to do somthing new and creative every time you power up your gear.

This ensures that techno keeps its edge.

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Originally Posted by Mindful

In my opinien if you make or play techno you should be trying to do somthing new and creative every time you power up your gear.

This ensures that techno keeps its edge.

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:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Techno is a framework, what you build with it should be unique.....

This topic has been my focus of comprehension for about 4years now. I was dumbfounded by the way in which Techno went out of favour so quickly here in Australia. In the last 4years it has slid into obscurity and shame to the point where you'd be lucky to get 100 people to an event. It copped an absolute hidin' over here. Many Techno DJs & Producers simply disappeared. I think that too many DJs just played boring DJ-tool mixes and everyone moved on from it - plus over saturation of one type of sound...

However, it survived in small pockets through the dedication of several crews. It is now developing once more in popularity.

Its popularity has come about through evolution of the sound and the progression of the artists who, as you said mindful, sit down and write something new and creative each session.

Time has been the agent of awareness combined with better instrumentation.

What I find hard to understand is how Rock'n Roll or Pop-Music can be so stagnated yet still enjoy a large listenership?? Perhaps only reason is that it has been around longer and enjoys corporate budgets & marketing.

My conclusion is b). But I think that Techno will take many more years (or cycles) before it is more widely understood or accepted. I think more people need to learn its reason or purpose. The artists must not be lazy and try to get away with delivering simple DJ-tool type mixes or production at events - keep it flowing and interesting.

Its on the up I reckon :)

yes yes and yes.
It really is good to here people saying what is getting said here.
Positive and intelligent remarks.
So many people, jumped on techno when it was the flavor, and then ran away when things went quiet.
No music ever dies.
Jazz is still alive
Swing is still alive
etc
Too many people want quick results and now now NOW

So many people jumped into techno because as a music, to a certain extent, you can mash up a load of sounds, produce it well, and shazam, it`s techno.

There are too many DJ`s making the music, and they are not necessarily good musicians, so the music they make, is entertaining only for the DJ`s.

We need more creativity.

More experimentation, I`m not talking running a 3 phase supply into your keyboard, and playing it during a thunderstorm, but everyone making it, needs to explore, and stop trying to sound like the stuff they listen to.

More communication. The net provides us all the opportunity to communicate as artists and DJ`s. We chould make more use of it.
Rather than just talking about who`s in and who`s out, and who`s the best etc.

So many people just say, bah, it`s just crap words on the net.
It doesn`t mean anything.

Well, only if you let it be that.

Never before has communcation been so easy, and so cheap. And it is so important.

There is strength in numbers, and rather than the "I`m alright mate, I`ll look after me, and that`s all that counts". That kind of attitude stinks, and is so much a part of the music scene.

I would like to see that change. We can`t survive without each other.

Mutual support, encouragement and the sharing of knowledge will help us to build a stronger community.

Throw your ego in the trashcan.

interesting that everyone so far says B...i bet if i posted this in the hard techno forum, more people would say A...this forum seems to have more people in it who are worried about the state of techno...or at least critical, whereas that forum has a lot more people who are satisfied with the way things are (i'm not attaching a value judgement to that...just observing...hopefully people who would choose A or C will answer this post as well).

when i think about my favorite tracks...e.g. the wipe...they are very evocative of things other than BEAT or DANCEFLOOR or DARK/EVIL. that's what i want to hear in techno...a more complex palette and a more diverse set of influences, emotions, and aesthetics. but i still want it to be undeniably techno...

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Originally Posted by holotropik

What I find hard to understand is how Rock'n Roll or Pop-Music can be so stagnated yet still enjoy a large listenership?? Perhaps only reason is that it has been around longer and enjoys corporate budgets & marketing.

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...Plus u won't hear Surgeon on prime time radio.
Techno will always slip in and out of mainstream music (how many house/hard house dj's slip a few techno records in2 their sets?). But when Techno is popular it all gets a bit samey (imo),so u have to look to the underground to find new stuff...and there's plenty of it. ;)

You mean the prime time radio, other than a few John Peel shows he's been on ?

I'd say a B. **** it do whatever is fun and sounds good and let everyone else sort out whether it's cack, quality or a phase it's going through. If you can dance to it and get your groove that does me, I don't really care whehter it's techno, wonky, schranz or whatever you want to call your new style as long as it sounds good.

I love techno - it has fallen a bit to the way side lately but who cares that means it will have a massive bounce back sooner or later.

Im in for the long hall.

It is true tho, techno has to develope if it wants to remain or gain more appeal.

Im looking forward to see where its going to go. I think some of the purists will have to re think what they are doing tho. I think incorporation of new/different styles of music will boost its appeal.

Slowy bring people back round to it again.

TECHNO FOR EVER

http://www.doc12inch.co.uk/Liquidres...o25thmarch.jpg

techno will always change, whether anyone intends it to or not - thats just the way it goes, same as anything else. So trying too hard to change it is probably not a good idea, these things should just be left to themselves I reckon, everyone just needs to make/play tunes that they think are good, and things will just naturally grow and change through that.

I hate the word progressive when applied to music. Anything that gets called progressive usually ends up sucking pretty fast cause people get all anal about trying to do something new and different, and often stray away from what made the music good in the first place. Think progressive rock, progressive trance, progressive house, progressive breaks, progressive euphoric laser breakdown funky bosh bosh disco, etc. In my opinion, all of the above are a pretty poor example for techno to follow - lets keep progressive out of techno - I reckon leave it as techno and make sure its good.

Also - what if techno changed and no one liked it? That would be pretty shit...

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Originally Posted by Francisco Scaramanga

progressive euphoric laser breakdown funky bosh bosh disco

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hey that's my favorite kind of music... :lol:

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Originally Posted by Francisco Scaramanga

techno will always change, whether anyone intends it to or not - thats just the way it goes, same as anything else. So trying too hard to change it is probably not a good idea, these things should just be left to themselves I reckon, everyone just needs to make/play tunes that they think are good, and things will just naturally grow and change through that.

I hate the word progressive when applied to music. Anything that gets called progressive usually ends up sucking pretty fast cause people get all anal about trying to do something new and different, and often stray away from what made the music good in the first place. Think progressive rock, progressive trance, progressive house, progressive breaks, progressive euphoric laser breakdown funky bosh bosh disco, etc. In my opinion, all of the above are a pretty poor example for techno to follow - lets keep progressive out of techno - I reckon leave it as techno and make sure its good.

Also - what if techno changed and no one liked it? That would be pretty shit...

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:clap:

go the bosh bosh disco...man that rocks :P

hehehe...love that comment, made me crack-up big-time.....and so true. :clap:

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Originally Posted by Mirsha

If you can dance to it and get your groove that does me, I don't really care whehter it's techno, wonky, schranz or whatever you want to call your new style as long as it sounds good.

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...Amen to that ;)

Techno is just too fragmented. Purism in any form is dull and wrong. So long as people are segregated by genre there will always be a tendancy for it to go stale. I think producers also really have to be educated into listening to other styles of music to inject some new ideas. There's too much recylcling going on.

*</hypocrite>*

think people ave 2 start 2 experiment more and put more of an effort into creating new forms of techno instead of making a loop that just drones on and agree with d.b on it has 2 get more musical also think been educated in other styles of music is good 2

techno, in its obiquity, is a very personalized music genre.

a more focused question is - "how far can YOUR idea of techno progress and still be of interest to you"

I think even asking the question how far it can progress is a little silly.
If you look at techno in the confines of the nightlub environment, then I would say it is fairly limited.
But as a type of music, it`s nature makes it almost unlimited.

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

I think even asking the question how far it can progress is a little silly.
If you look at techno in the confines of the nightlub environment, then I would say it is fairly limited.
But as a type of music, it`s nature makes it almost unlimited.

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bingo.

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

as a type of music, it`s nature makes it almost unlimited.

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Word

Totally its unlimited. We've got the toys to use any sound you can hear musically in any combination. Wayhay!

I reckon a lot of the time innovation in music comes from disparate elements being combined for new situations to create new and interesting forms. With techno, as someone said earlier, we have the framework to use whatever sounds we like. When we think about it, folk are shaking their arses to some pretty abstract music of a frday night a lot of the time.

It seems electronic elements seep into so many styles of music, growing new styles as they go. Then it gets sooked up by techno again and plowed back in for new forms. This process as you all know works in all the other limitless directions of music aswell. The interplay, adoption and adaptation of ideas is wicked. The machinews themselves constaly present possibilities that we hadnt thought of. There's a really good Squarepusher article he wrote about machine as collaborator. I'll try to dig it out.

Anyways, as lives evolve the music needed to express does too.
Set the controls for as far as the mind can think!

How much can Techno progress????



One answer as far as people want it to progress
their are so many different ideas out their people with a different out look on
techno so many ideas to be brought out of their heads it was their at the start techno it will be their at the end of dance music coz it rocks :cool:

For Techno to progress there must be more use of new technology and creative abilities than just the standard "done to death" DJ mixing track to track.

There is very little uptake and acceptance of the technology available to add further dimension to the music. There is still all this talk of using the standard 'ole SL-1200s and a mixer type technique. Do you realise that the average punter has seen all this too often and is bored with it all. It is only fantastic to the DJ who thinks its fantastic to mix other peoples stuff and make some noise....too easy.

Punters react with new zeal when witness to a good live act or creative DJ who is as busy as a one-legged man in an ass kickin competition.....

TIME TO MOVE AWAY FROM THE EASY TECHNIQUES AND INTO REAL MUSICIANSHIP.

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

If you look at techno in the confines of the nightlub environment, then I would say it is fairly limited.

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Nah it's more down to promoters geting in the same old tired acts because they are safe rather than anyrthing else. I've seen a good ew nights go off the ****ing hook when a DJ cmoes in who is prepeared to break with the regular style. You are one lucky bastard if you can catch Jerome Hill DJing in a club without ever eharing any of his sets as it jsut twists your head into a penguin shaped biscuit and forces your mind into broken paths of evil. I've seen Subhead play live at a club completely unprepared for their onslaught and seen the masses with big frowns on their faces wondering what the **** is going on as the normal service of 4/4 beats has not been played. Ignition Technition playing MC hammer? Forget it.

I do think strongly it's more something to do with club nights, people running nights tend to a particualr sound so they get that sound into their clubs because that is what they like. I've given up all hope of hearing smoeone like Marcin Czubala in a club, his shit is just not jakcing and kicking enough to keep crowd going who want pounders. It's down to the club, it comes back to the eternal money questions, regardless of how much club promoter A wants to not make monrey and keep it real, they actally have to make money to keep their dream alive and keep things turning over.

So yeah you do get the big name clubs withe the finalcial grounding to keep getting in the same old tired shit that you really don't want to go and see but you know you are going anyway just for the name, then you get clubs that are willing to push the curve a bit and are happy in the knowldge that they are doing their own shizzle and enjoying it and **** anyone who thinks it should be done a certain way.

At times like this I always point my way at a certain Edinburgh club called JakN who have done a remarkably good job of giving a shit load of people a good chance to get heard because the people runnuing are well into their music rather than getting someone who's going to get people through the door.

Technology is always changing progressing. In the short run I def see a lot of mixing ie: Dark Tribal etc.. Once they start to mesh with new machines will come new ideas... I look at things like abelton live and a whole new door is open!! imo

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Originally Posted by Mirsha

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

If you look at techno in the confines of the nightlub environment, then I would say it is fairly limited.

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Nah it's more down to promoters geting in the same old tired acts because they are safe rather than anyrthing else. I've seen a good ew nights go off the **** hook when a DJ cmoes in who is prepeared to break with the regular style. You are one lucky bastard if you can catch Jerome Hill DJing in a club without ever eharing any of his sets as it jsut twists your head into a penguin shaped biscuit and forces your mind into broken paths of evil. I've seen Subhead play live at a club completely unprepared for their onslaught and seen the masses with big frowns on their faces wondering what the **** is going on as the normal service of 4/4 beats has not been played. Ignition Technition playing MC hammer? Forget it.

I do think strongly it's more something to do with club nights, people running nights tend to a particualr sound so they get that sound into their clubs because that is what they like. I've given up all hope of hearing smoeone like Marcin Czubala in a club, his shit is just not jakcing and kicking enough to keep crowd going who want pounders. It's down to the club, it comes back to the eternal money questions, regardless of how much club promoter A wants to not make monrey and keep it real, they actally have to make money to keep their dream alive and keep things turning over.

So yeah you do get the big name clubs withe the finalcial grounding to keep getting in the same old tired shit that you really don't want to go and see but you know you are going anyway just for the name, then you get clubs that are willing to push the curve a bit and are happy in the knowldge that they are doing their own shizzle and enjoying it and **** anyone who thinks it should be done a certain way.

At times like this I always point my way at a certain Edinburgh club called JakN who have done a remarkably good job of giving a shit load of people a good chance to get heard because the people runnuing are well into their music rather than getting someone who's going to get people through the door.

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You`ve missed my point
I`m talking about approaching techno as form of dance music only, has limitations.
Techno can go beyond the dancefloor.

TIME TO MOVE AWAY FROM THE EASY TECHNIQUES AND INTO REAL MUSICIANSHIP
:clap:

It comes down to balance and taste in the end... so when its not tasty anymore for you, move on and progress yourself rather than waiting for "techno" to progress. There is enough music in this world to cover any listening, dancing or playing needs so look for other music and not just "techno".

Also quality control. It's easy to release somebody's music just because they are your friend or because it sounds sort of like *insert random big name* or they are a well known DJ and will get sales. But sometimes people aren't ready to offer something from within. Something personal. Or they are still learning how to produce well or still learning to put loops together. *Then you get hundreds of dj's making loop records because others got away with it and made sales even tho in reality, they aren't ready yet.

Art and Music vs Business = Shitty Combinaiton.

*many loop records are actually well made and serve their purpose but like with all things, only good in moderation.

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Originally Posted by dirty_bass

Techno can go beyond the dancefloor.

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Dude that's one question i ask myself all the time. if it's not danceable but still has that techno sound, is it still techno? or does it just fall under the experimental electronica banner? I always assumed techno was the ceiling of sound exploration.....

I think it can only progress as far as peoples acceptence of it still being techno,. i.e. once it's too different sounding, people domn't want to accept it is techno anymore...
How far can techno progress? Get back in the studio and find out... Maybe you'll come across a completely new genre in the process...