Why is techno still so underground after all these yea

Someone tell me why....



After all those massive tunes like Strings Of Like, Energy Flash, Spastik, Waveform, Hi Tech Jazz, Gameform etc etc (i really could go on and on and on and bloody on).



How come techno has not become huge in the UK? Actually I suppose for the whole world? Surely techno should be a recognised force in world music, but instead most people still believe techno is either 2 Unlimited or 300 bpm hardcore.



Do you think techno is scared of blatant self-promotion?



Or is it that the whole thing about techno is once it sounds 'samey' you move on a do something else (which is why most people can never catch up)?



Interesting... what do you reckon?












Edited by: markeg3000 at: 10/22/02 5:05:07 pm

You could be onto something there with the ‘samey thing’. … I’ve taken some of my mates (none of which are slaves to the driving source of what techno is) to a few techno events and although they buzz of the atmosphere and say that it reminds them of the old ’91-92 rave era’ they still come out at the end of the night saying, ‘Yeah, that was a good night, but don’t the tracks go on a bit?????’



How do I answer this question? With the correct answer, yeah the tracks do vary in length, but it also depends on the DJ’s skills and how he can mix a blend techno to create an either better sound, something the producer had no idea Dj’s were going to create when the record was pressed. I cant count the amount of times I’ve been listing to talented Dj’s blending tunes and I have just had to stand still and say ‘@#%$ me that sounds good!!!’ You cannot beat that bizarre, but highly addictive echo sound that quality music makes when being mixed with more quality music… ARRRGHH BISTO!!!!



Techno is something that you cannot force into peoples heads, 9 out of 10 people just don’t get it, and it is as if they are listening to something else. You all must have friends with differing music opinions, how many times have you bought a track and loved it so much that you just need to let your friends hear it? And the response is far from the response you expected… And you think to yourself, why don’t you like this, ‘I LOVE IT, THIS IS THE BEST TUNE I HAVE HEARD THIS YEAR!! (Until the next time you vist the record shop, then the story continues).



So what can you do? Do nothing, just keep listening yourself, play it in your car, play it in your bedroom and remember someone is going to walk past and think ‘That sounds mad, what is that sound?’ then you can hang out the window (or door) and say: -



‘Its techno mate, nothing else, just techno’.



Respect to you all…



Aaron.

i think that techno people are very protective of their music, and so they should. commercial success normally leads to mainstream commercial exploitation by money grabbing bigwigs who are only interested in squeezing money out of something until they strangle it to death.



just look at the stance taken by ur over the last few years. to the point of urging the public to not buy records from high street chain stores, who have never previously supported the genre.



this maybe extreme propaganda, but it shows they care.



do you care ?



i do........

lets hope it stays underground.

I'm just thinking outloud here but first, before I go into this, I do believe that techno being underground is the reason why the music is and has kept so good. It certainly will never be a commerically accepted format. It's why we're all passionate about it.



I respect why UR do what they do (UR are one of the few techno artists I do respect - but they are too using PR very cleverly if you think about it) BUT I just wish more people were aware of techno and believed in it. If the record labels had better sales and the artists had better incomes - perhaps the music would be even better produced?



Are we all happy with no-one except the very elite making cash out of techno (Beyer/Mills/Clarke) - and hey - don't tell me UR don't make money out of techno!!!! If you make a 1/2 decent commerical trance record you make @#%$ loads. If you make a 1/2 decent techno record you make nothing.



I know when I make some money out of music is goes straight back into the studio which in turn helps me make better music and have a greater understanding of equipment and cutting edge sounds.....



TECHNO = TECHNOLOGY

MORE MONEY = BETTER TECHNOLOGY



Surely the more technology you have the better techno you make?



See my thing here?



We all love to be underground but at the end of the day, it's the elite that have made the cash, promoted themselves like crazy casue they can and are therefore making the music that we all say we like. Don't tell me Jeff Mills hasn't got a whole PR machine around him - cause he has.



Unfortunately not many people make alot of money out of techno cause of sales, and I truly believe they need to go up.



Let me know your thoughts./....






Edited by: markeg3000 at: 10/22/02 11:10:31 pm

I think I have a slight different view from all u folks!



2 me good music is good music period. Nothing changes that fact, not even sales numbers!!



Of course most media is still runned by old farts who still think electronica is made with computers 4 computers.. thus being really affraid of supporting anything and then finding out it's a piece of cr** thus being ridiculed by they're peers!! So they only take a chance on something that's really selling!!! (which generaly means we've heard it about 1000000000 times b4 and can't stand it anymore).





Most techno artists don't really care about making comercial things.. cause they're music is 2 mak'em excape they're prob.s 2 mak'em have fun.. we are our only audience...



I make my stuff and still find my self amazed at someone crazy enought 2 like it and wanting 2 release them... we ride the dream of doing just what we love and nothing more!!! There is no bigger freedom..



But I also know loads of artist who use alias 2 produce commercial music 2 b able 2 fund what they truelly love... techno with no compromises!!.. this is the main reason.





There was also another important statement... is techno 2 much the same.... well if u don't like something it sounds all the same...

But there is a good point .. I think a lot of dj just play one style, which is what I do.. TEChNO.. (but most of the local djs here have sold out 2 techno.. In Portugal I think I am the only DJ who still only plays techno!! last man standing!).. this is fine but I think it gets a little worst when the they only play 1 substyle... I won't name Djs but some of the bigger names really bore me 2 death, they might b incredably good technically but playing tribal is very cool but 2h of the same congas ???!!

How is it that DC put it.. 1 trick poney! bare in mind this is my particular view and nothing more!!

Another rant : Minimal techno is great, minimal DJing is

meaning a loop running 4 almost 7 minutes is no more that a err.. LOOP!



My experience is also a little different has we have latino blood so we thrive on rhythm and funkyness... I am yet 2 c a room so cold that won't break 2 a nice mix of funky, hard, tribal, booty, minimal, chicago, percussive, straight techno!!



Resuming : Do what u love and don't worrie about getting big.. What more can u want out of yer "job" than doing what u like and being loaded and recognised!!!



Z

Im not going to go into a rant along the lines of "techno isnt understood", or its not appreciated like it should be as topics like that have been driven into the ground and everyone knows them.



I dont think most techno is easily classifiable as that. Usually I couldnt tell you either way if a particular track is "techno" or not. I usually stick to if I say I dont know, it probably is. Every other musical style has very distinct sound and you can tell exactly what it is right away, while techno is more a creation style rather than a musical style.



Techno has a stigma attached to it from the early 90s where anyone with a computer in their studio pounded out what was called techno just about, and fell into the overused and overdone catagory.



You can do things on a techno track you just cant do on anything else and have it appreciated (although by not as many people).



You have much more leeway in creation, but straying too farm from the norm seems to scare most people. They have rigid expectations, and techno doesnt fall into any specific ones.



Take a very well established artist that turns out an album completely different from anything hes done before. Creatively he is alot happier about it, but the popularity tends to suffer because its "not what mainstream people expect".



You look at the most popular forces in techno (and I dont mean this as a slam to anyone, certainly not), but they do fit into a fairly small catagory. Thier tracks arent usually too far apart from each enough, and enough you can tell without knowing who probably created a track based on thier previous work.



The people who do appreciate techno dont always do it just "for the music" . Like Ivor said, 9 out of 10 people just dont get it.



Of course that goes for any music. I dont understand the people I run into that have a total dedication to dnb/jungle. After 20 minutes my head just hurts most of the time.



You take a techno track and listen to it, and when you truly understand it, you start to see the waveforms in your head. You see how its put together, you can seperate each distinct part and you can almost see what they were doing when they created it (unless thats just me).



One thing I have to comment on, is while the technology aspect is key, I dont think the more technology - better techno truly comes into play. You wont make a better techno track by running out and buying more gear.



Alot of techno is self defeating to its own popularity. People going out to stretch the genre just that little bit farther leaving almost everyone scratching their heads.



Nothing most people dont understand will ever truly become popular.





The more I write into this post, the more I feel I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about.



Isnt it great.





I would also like to add one thing that has been beaten into the ground but I think it does deserve mention here.

The infamous Aphex Twin - Windowlicker waveform. Who but true techno freaks could appreciate something like that.



Mike








You go in hard, and you go in fast.

> The more I write into this post, the more I feel I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about.



hahahahahahahahahaha.... now that's hilarious.....

I might as well be the first to admit it





Mike




You go in hard, and you go in fast.

I think it´s still underground cause it´s not as reachable for people who are not into techno.

for example, i got some kids in my class and whenever i tell´em i listen to techno they just have no clue what i´m talking about. like mark said, people who aren´t into it think techno is stuff like Scooter, Drunkenmonkey, etc.

when i look back 3 years from now, i was thinking the same

stuff, till i first hit a techno club and got my eyes opened.

another thing might be that allmost everything is only (luckily) released on vinyl....

just my opinion

Real techno music is too deep and abstract for the commercial dance followers to get their heads around. Most of the commercial followers just think techno is dull loopy stuff and don't get it.



Trance, hard house etc is more simplistic and appeal to a more wider range of people. Simple cheesy music sells well and shifts units.



If techno music does ever get mass marketed a lot of the tunes on the albums will be watered down stuff.

now thats a good answer.




You go in hard, and you go in fast.

On point is that (real) techno is only available on Vinyl. But you can´t put a vinyl in your car stereo and you can´t play it on your pc while you work, you can´t listen to it on your discman while you jog... basically a vinyl is pretty useless unless you´re a dj.



Also there are many people who choose to listen to techno because it´s underground. If it wasn´t underground, techno would lose many followers to other underground music styles. For these people it´s not about the music, they just want to be different from others.



You all know what happened to trance: as soon as trance music started airing on mtv and started becoming "commercial", people started looking for something new, because suddenly they no longer identified with it.



Aside of that, another thing that happened to trance is sony: Sony and other big music industry giants suddenly sense there´s money to be made, and they´ll have their clon army of in-house producers make a bunch of crappy tracks, which´ll sell due to massive ad campaigns.

It´s what they´re doing with trance now. They´ve got an army of producers with multimillion dollar studios and basically all they do is cut original samples from 80s tracks and lay a trance beat under that. It´s cheap as hell, but they advertise it and they air it on tv and kids buy it. You don´t want that happening to techno.

but why that didn`t happen to Techno?

i think a majority doesn`t listen something which is underground. majority listens something which is in.

techno is exploration, experimentation. we are on the yet-not-explored teritory and that`s not comortable for most of people.

because they don`t want to think...........

umm, i think its probably time to give up this discussion cos its going on and on...

however, i reckon i'll just ease my two cents in:

there is no real possibility for MELODY in techno. that is the whole point. it is based on grooves, noises, and sound in its pure form. every other genre is based on having a HOOK, something melodic that grabs the lstener's ear and whispers "here you go, hum this all day til it does everyones head in"

if something is melodic, then it can be sung. if it can be sung, then you can put words to it (see where i'm going?). if you can put words to it then you can rinse the hell out of a genre thats hot by sticking a pop vocal over the top and selling it to pre-pubescent girls and post-menopausal women (and a lot of beer drinkers). that, for me, is why techno is still so underground. until you hear S-Club junior ravers featuring will+gareth with "I'm totally addicted to acid" (rik waller's hardstep 303 fatman mix)... i got it on white, its massive, terry wogan's been caning it to death. watch out.

but there are melodies in Techno. almost every counterbalance has it, mills, mulero................

Hmm, beg to differ.



I think Techno is big in the UK and the rest of the world, it could be claimed it is a global phenonomen. There are a lot of clubs up and down the country putting on good Techno events with good lineups. They may not be a Ministry of Sound or Cream type affair but the proper spirit is there.



I think that Techno is a recognised force in world music; however, in comparison to other music genres/styles (i.e. house, garage, etc) Techno is possibly not as big. That leads onto another discussion concerning Promotion, more of that in due course...



I agree with your comments that most people think that techno is either 2 Unlimited or 300 bpm hardcore. This is indeed unfortunate. I sometimes play some of my nicer, dreamy records (Robert Hood ((nighttime world vols I & II are great)), Advent, Sender Berlin, Justin Berkovi, Steve Stoll, assorted B sides, etc) to mates who aren't really into Techno and thay ask me what this sort of music is. Upon my reply that it is Techno, they say, "Nah, that's not Techno, Techno is that BOM, BOM, BOM hardcore stuff." I have a hard time convincing people about the diverse range of Techno styles. This leads me to conclude that a lot of people are uneducated and the exposure given is probably not of the right kind.



This leads onto the promotion of Techno. The statement that, "techno is scared of blatant self-promotion." is, I believe, incorrect. Techno isn't scared of being promoted, it is being promoted all the time; it is possibly that the people involved aren't very good at it or it's been done in the wrong way. I think what Techno needs is for the promotion to be done in a proper PROFESSIONAL manner, I don't think this is really happening as well as it could be. It seems (sadly) that in this industry IMAGE is all important. The image of Techno is probaly not that atttractive to a lot of people because their perception of it is wrong. A result perhaps of bad promotion?



We need to educate the masses but in the process ensure that the true spirit is not destroyed by mass marketing and commercialisation. For me Techno (well music in general) is a magical journey to the depths of my head and beyond. Escapism to the max. If people start to listen to Techno cos it's been played on the coolest radio station for the nth time and because "mr big jock" is playing it it must therefore be cool, then that is wrong and the reverse of what is happening now is happening. It will be quite a major task to achieve that fine balance...



We need some ambassadors for Techno...



Furthermore, if people think that Techno sounds too samey then they are narrow minded fools. They hear, but alas, do not LISTEN. Techno changes all the time through natural evolution, individual, distinct and different sounds are being produced all the time. The only barrier is the human mind which is nigh infinite?



Does anybody agree/disagree with me? If so, please post a reply and let me know...

i is voting for chris liberator as the ambassador of acid.

Hmm, beg to differ.



I think Techno is big in the UK and the rest of the world, it could be claimed it is a global phenonomen. There are a lot of clubs up and down the country putting on good Techno events with good lineups. They may not be a Ministry of Sound or Cream type affair but the proper spirit is there.



I think that Techno is a recognised force in world music; however, in comparison to other music genres/styles (i.e. house, garage, etc) Techno is possibly not as big. That leads onto another discussion concerning Promotion, more of that in due course...



I agree with your comments that most people think that techno is either 2 Unlimited or 300 bpm hardcore. This is indeed unfortunate. I sometimes play some of my nicer, dreamy records (Robert Hood ((nighttime world vols I & II are great)), Advent, Sender Berlin, Justin Berkovi, Steve Stoll, assorted B sides, etc) to mates who aren't really into Techno and thay ask me what this sort of music is. Upon my reply that it is Techno, they say, "Nah, that's not Techno, Techno is that BOM, BOM, BOM hardcore stuff." I have a hard time convincing people about the diverse range of Techno styles. This leads me to conclude that a lot of people are uneducated and the exposure given is probably not of the right kind.



This leads onto the promotion of Techno. The statement that, "techno is scared of blatant self-promotion." is, I believe, incorrect. Techno isn't scared of being promoted, it is being promoted all the time; it is possibly that the people involved aren't very good at it or it's been done in the wrong way. I think what Techno needs is for the promotion to be done in a proper PROFESSIONAL manner, I don't think this is really happening as well as it could be. It seems (sadly) that in this industry IMAGE is all important. The image of Techno is probaly not that atttractive to a lot of people because their perception of it is wrong. A result perhaps of bad promotion?



We need to educate the masses but in the process ensure that the true spirit is not destroyed by mass marketing and commercialisation. For me Techno (well music in general) is a magical journey to the depths of my head and beyond. Escapism to the max. If people start to listen to Techno cos it's been played on the coolest radio station for the nth time and because "mr big jock" is playing it it must therefore be cool, then that is wrong and the reverse of what is happening now is happening. It will be quite a major task to achieve that fine balance...



We need some ambassadors for Techno...



Furthermore, if people think that Techno sounds too samey then they are narrow minded fools. They hear, but alas, do not LISTEN. Techno changes all the time through natural evolution, individual, distinct and different sounds are being produced all the time. The only barrier is the human mind which is nigh infinite?



Does anybody agree/disagree with me? If so, please post a reply and let me know...

do you know why 80% of music in the world is being listened to?

because of the image which comes along with it.

so what would happen if we start building "positive" image of Techno in the world?

you`d get silly masses going to parties just because of that image they get with it.

..............

arts don`t need promotion, cause promotion always pays attention to the irellevant things about it.

.............

very few people listen to music for deeper reasons, most of them see only fun in it.

According to Mixmag it's now very 'cool' to listen to Techno. Grrr...

miasma man...that a great thread..i agree on many points.



and mixmag is @#%$...leeches.



-z

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MARK EG

Someone tell me why....


How come techno has not become huge in the UK?

---

Do you still think this is the case, Mark? Techno has grown considerably in the last 6 months, although somewhat negatively in my opinion.

Some people are extremeley scared of techno. If you called it something else and marketed it as that it would turn a few more heads.

I agree with ryan, techno is getting quite comercialized in britain. Techno is always broadcast on radio 1 now.Pete tong had sunshine as his tune of the weekor month or something!!! In the last six months Beyer, Hawtin< Vaith, Ade Fenton and dave clarke have all been on radio 1. Some of them EM's but Clarkey and Fenton? I really wouldnt mind that much if fergie played the ocasional techno tune but

1) He plays the most shit techno around and people who know no better think this is the sound of techno.

2) He needs a leson in how to mix it propperly, he doesnt have to be seamless simon all the time.

3) Hes just a tit wank.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ampassasinbirmingham

3) Hes just a tit wank.

---

No, tit wanks are amazing.

I think one of the things with techno and outsiders is that if you look at any other genre,(lets say trance), you can listen to a 30 second piece of the main break and you can instantly see where the tune is coming from and u can tell if its a good tune or not.


But with techno you cant do that, its about the whole tune, you need to listen to most of it, maybe a few times, to get the feel for the tune and where its coming from!!

i think techno will never be commercial because nine out ten people like to hear crap and cheesy riffs furthermore they want everything handed to them on a platter. They don't want to think and techno is to complex for the masses (the microwave age)

techno is a continually changing tool, not a finnished product, which thrives on it being unknown to the masses (sub-culture and never mainstream). This is a marketeers nightmare: how must he/she sell something that can't excist without it's compettitors, is largely unpredictable to outsiders and maybe more important want's to stay underground...?