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did anyone listen to to jeff mills on the essential mix on sat night? it was the first time id heard jeff mills play after hearing so much about him over the years. i was expecting some deep experimental grooves, but instead he played some cold, twisted, hard edged techno with a slight shakin of funk, very impressive. 3 decks as well all live at homelands, fukin legend! :D
legend indeed.
his set the following night at Lost was much, much better, although I only heard the R1 broadcast of his Homelands set. Never went above 130bpm, kept it deep and groovy, very good indeed.
It certainly was. Best I'd heard in a long time. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by death on a stick
Mate i was there!!!!!!!!!!!
he was an absolute beast mate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But i'll tell u who was better-------Slam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And i didnt expect that at all but they rocked it and the room werent as full all night as it was for them...........
other homelands highlights included grandmaster flash and marky.........
superb festival!!!!
this is wierd because i heard from various other sources that the essential mix show with jeff didn't go too well ........ hmmmmmm
i dont know how anyone can say mills set was good. like the last 5 times i have seen him play, it was weak mixing. I wounder if those Sony headphones actualy work?
sorry, i just wasnt feeling it, no need to flame me, i just think he isnt as hot as he use to be:?
Check mine and Death's posts above. The next night at Lost he was awesome. Loads of long, slow, subtle mixes. Don't think he dropped a beat all night.Quote:
Originally Posted by serox
Not flaming you or anything, Serox, but it does seem that in the techno field people are very quick to write off artists as having lost it, or as has-beens just because they drop a couple of beats in one set. As I say, that comment isn't directly related to what you've said here, but I've seen a few similiar comments lately about Mills and Hood and Baxter.
I'm sure if you go to gigs to check out bands you'll find they play some shit gigs, but people are happy enough to acknowledge it was just a shit gig and don't write off the bands entire career.
Why is it if a techno DJ plays a ropey set, and in particular DJs with a bit of history and deserved status, people want to slate them and write them off ? I don't geddit. :?
@Gunjack. I also heard mixed reports about that set but haven't listened to it myself yet so can't comment from a personal perspective. However, I know some people who were there and the main complaints were that he lost the plot midset. This report came from guys who are slaves to the kickdrum though. I then compared this report with some other friends who are a bit more Mills aware and they said it was great all the way through. Mid set, he dipped into some of his beatless material of the Metropolis variety and they said he lost some of the crowd at that point. Lots of the kids just didn't get it. I guess at a festival like Homelands you will get a lot of hyped up kids who just won't understand that more musically adventurous side and just want a constant, pounding kickdrum.
I guess it's like someone once said about Hendrix "Y'all can listen to Jimi, but ya'll can't hear Jimi."
I agree with your thought's Patrick, I've heard Mills slayed a lot by folks but having heard him mix and produce since the early 90's he is definitely due a lot of credit for his work, and I've heard him rock many nights, even if the odd mix isn't perfect. All Djs/producers have their off days and his music has given me great pleasure.
I also think people expect a lot from Mills and people often excpect balls to the wall hard as f*** minimal techno all night during his sets, and he has a tendency to play some more experimental/funkier/different stuff which people aren't expecting. Creatively I think this is good and shows he is trying to diversify his music ans is not one dimensional.... but some others see it as pretentious shit. Each to their own but no on can deny his massive influence in techno.
i think people are forgetting that hes on 3 decks, he was live, and he goes into the mix very quickly, this guy deserves nothing but praise, the man is legend a true pioneer.
i hear this all the time, people making excuses for terrible mixing cos he has 3 dechs and he is mixing records quickly.
why use 3 dechs if you are clearly making mistakes on 2? why mix records in quikcly if they are not even in time?
i think it is much easier to slam records in and then fix the pitch, like he does, than to do long smooth mixes with 2 records playing for 2mins. and leave them EQ's alone ffs :) i always like to see nice mixing, even if i dont reealy like the music. but i think his sets were not constructed at all, records were not fitting correctly like they can do if they was placed on the correct 4th at the right time.
but thats just the kind of mixing i like anyway.
http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~ser/...ou_all_mix.wma
enjoy.
i don`t think jeff is that consistant, but the man has skills and on his day can`t be beaten.
Everytime i have seen or heard a mills set there has been plenty of gallops etc, but it just dowsnt matter, he punts through tracks at an incredible rate and to make up for the mixes where things dont go quite right there are mixes that leave your jaw kicking around with the fag butts and empty red-stripes on the floor!
You barely even notice the shady mixes anyway because he is such a legend and he picks great tunes and most importantly he still gives off a very powerfull sense of being in control so you know you are in safe hands and the next copule of hours are gonna be great!
but would you accept the train crashs if it wasnt 'jeff mills'
Personally I'm not that bothered about the odd f.uck up from anybody so long as the tunes are right. I'm happy to play the percentages game and so long as people get it right for the mjority of the time then that's fine with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by serox
And it would seem that a lot of people on this here board accept f.uck ups from other people. In fact, and I don't mean this as any sort of a slur on his ability, but I remember reading on this very forum someone saying that they loved Mark's sets and didn't mind him dropping the odd beat as he is always jumping around like such a lunatic it's inevitable that it'll happen from time to time. So are we saying it's ok to drop a beat now and then so long as you're doing something like smashing up a telly with a baseball bat but it's not all right to drop a beat when you are trying to synch 3 turntables and a pair of 909s ? That logic seems a little f.ucked to me.
@Mark, 100% apologies for using you in that example, I haven't heard you recently and I'm sure your mixing is absolutely spot on these days :wink: but that was exactly what someone else said and it's too good a comparison not to use. And I'm really trying to understand this "let's give Mills a kicking" logic so by using an example that's very close to home for the board members, maybe it'll flush out some of the real reasons why people think like that. No offence meant or owt.
he plays f.ucking good sets. mixing matters absolutely nothing compared to the music that is played, no matter who is playing it. beat matching is convenient to dance to but people these days are hung up on the saddest aspects of techno, it's pathetic. how many DJs mix for hours without dropping a beat yet fail to play even one minute of decent music? most of those discussed on this forum, probably. I remember the days when Jeff would slam a track in all over the place and instead of people standing there moaning that it's not as precise as some other goon (who wouldn't know decent music if it climbed in their ears and had an all night rave), the crowd would go apeshit cos they knew that every new track was taking them to another level. oh, no, wait a minute, those days are still here, haha.
I don't think there is a dj in the world who doesn;t have the occasional blip when playing. True some are smoother than others but to be honest i've heard smooth perfect sets that just aren't as interesting as someone spicing up the mix, bangin in a varied selection and just mixing it up more. JUst my personal preference, there is no wrong or right here imo. As long as the dj is competent I can accept the odd mistake, especially when playing a 3-4 hour set, wether it's Mills or DJ Unknown
Yep, I agree T, there is no right or wrong.
If I take a step back from being specific about Mills for a moment, I guess the main point I'm trying to make is that to me this music is all about what and how it makes you feel. If you are making it, mixing it, dancing to it or listening to it the main thing is that it should come from the heart, not the head. And I guess the majority of the techno we're talking about here is dance music and that's important to remember. It's dance music NOT anally-retentive shoe-gazing analytical introspection music. So I reckon if you are spending loads of time analysing your own or somebody elses mixes then you've lost the feeling of the music. You should just be going with it, whether you're playing it or dancing to it, just feel it, enjoy it, love it but don't get too hung up on the technicalities. If you're spending lots of time trainspotting mixes then you need to ask yourself if you actually love the tracks being played ? Personally, when I'm lost in that moment, loving some tunes I don't even notice mixes, good or bad. I just get into the music. Just because we use machines to make it doesn't mean we have to analyse it and respond to it like robots.
Ask yourselves this : How many times have you been on a dancefloor when someone has dropped a tune that made you smile, that made you laugh out loud, that made you want to scream and shout or that's brought a tear to your eye just from the raw emotion of the tune itself ? Probably a fair few times, I'd guess.
Now ask yourselves how many times a mix has made you feel any of those motions ? Probably never. You may well acknowledge the technical brilliance of it somewhere in your head, but it won't be making you feel anything where it counts.
So that's it in a nutshell I guess. To me mixes are just a tool, but they are never more important than the tunes and the music itself. So don't get too hung up on them and lose the focus of what the music is really about. And the reason I feel so strongly about this is that when I was learning to mix (back with mc Noah on the Ark :oops: ) I wasted so much time listening to my own and other peoples mixes I forgot about the music for a while. I guess I kind of got lost with my head up my own arse. Now after many years of hearing loads of top DJs in loads of clubs, parties and festies I've realised none of that shit really matters and at the end of the day the only important thing is the music.
Enjoy it.
Peace.
P.
Disclaimer : Obviously the above should not be taken to mean it is acceptable to train wreck every single mix as though the tunes were being played by a deaf, blind monkey. Apply common sense and take the meaning within reasonable boundaries.
yeah... try telling some ppl that though... if i want to listen to anally-retentive shoe-gazing analytical introspection music i will. i do most weekends in the car. but this board, this whole club culture, the music that blackout audio releases, jeff mills - it's all dance music. sometimes i wish some people would realise that before calling saying it's not 'techno' or calling it mindless four to the floor fodder. it happens occasionally on this techno forum and i wish it would stop. not that dancefloor techno shouldn't be analysed though - but there's a time when analysis should stop and your heart should take over.Quote:
It's dance music NOT anally-retentive shoe-gazing analytical introspection music.
anyway back to your next point:
every weekend. every mix i do. every dj i listen to. it's my job and as such i'm automatically like this. i'm sure most dj's on this board are. a hour of continuous music is amazing when you detach yourself from the mixing but unfortunately after 20 years of mixing myself, analysing the technique of mixing until i'm blue in the face, i just cant detach from everything unless the dj can mix well.Quote:
Ask yourselves this : How many times have you been on a dancefloor when someone has dropped a tune that made you smile, that made you laugh out loud, that made you want to scream and shout or that's brought a tear to your eye just from the raw emotion of the tune itself ? Probably a fair few times, I'd guess.
Now ask yourselves how many times a mix has made you feel any of those motions ?
sad but true.
Damn, now you've made me spot a typo and I can't edit it. I meant emotions, not motions. Oops, now that's going to bug my anally-retentive side :lol:
Anyway, I'm not sure if I'm misunderatanding what you said there about the introspective music. I don't want anyone to think for a minute I was dissing that style of music. Like yourself, Mark, I listen to it all the time in the car and at home and I do love a good shoe-gaze. It's f.ucking ace in fact. But in the context of this particular discussion, I though we were more on about techno and DJs to dance to and that was what my point was aimed at. When you're out there for a night on the tiles, just let go and get into it. That's all.
So as a producer, Mark, would I be right in guessing that you also find it very difficult to detach yourself from the process that went into creating a track ? I mean, can you after all these years producing, listen to a track just as a piece of music without analysing how it was made ? I used to find when I was trying my hand at production (badly I might add) that I fell into that trap and I'm kind of glad I don't produce any more because it now leaves me free to appreciate the piece of music as a whole without the distractions of wondering how it was produced.
As you said though, it's your job do notcie all these things. I'm just wondering if everyone else, those of us who don't do it for a living but claim to do it just for the love and as a hobby (well, maybe a bit stronger than hobby I spose), do we need to be analysing that deeply ? I'm not sure we do, and I find from my own perspective that it takes away from my enjoyment. Anyway, just some of my thoughts. What's right for one person is wrong for another.
sorry, i would have to say i realy cant stand in a room that has poor mixing. even if he is playing 10 year old classics.
if you cant mix with 3 dechs, then dotn try?
if i try to mix with 6 and it sounds shit, is it sitll good cos i am playing good records?
i get more excited when i hear quality mixing fitting well together, ie, playing 2 or 3 hard records at the same time for a few mins.
i like it when i get records in time and can play them both till one runs out as something stops on the other etc
dunno, depends on how you liek to mix i guess, thats just my shit.
peace
/serox
Also, its just so lame when going to these clubs that have big name (legend) DJs where you have to pay £15 to get in, then pay loads on drinks/water just to hear weak mixing with the same records as I heard played last year...
I don’t really enjoying going to see any big name DJs anymore, I would rather go to a party that is cheap, lasts longer and has more importantly, atmosphear.
Dunno, maybe I listen to the mix too much, or maybe my teacher was too good:)
That's admirable, man. I agree totally that there a lot of 'names' out there who are living off their reputation and don't really cut it anymore and play some really boring sets full of really poor mixes and poor tunes. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree as to whether Mills is one of them, eh ? :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by serox
But I'm totally with you about going to the smaller, cheaper parties too. Everyone should check out and support their local scene and events and check out up and coming DJs and not just rely on the established order. That's the only way the scene develops and changes imho.
Damn right, and also apply the same stringent quality filters in terms of the music being played.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick
good stuff, c u at a party in london soon! :)
well, yeh u do see some dodgy mixing at partys, but its free so it doesnt really bother me as much :)
and sometimes u can get good players...
I have to agree with you patrik re: the shoe gazing. I get a bit dissed by beard strokers myself, they dont seem to understand that as much as a peice of music, my tracks are a tool, used to make people dance. I'd be writing jazz if i wanted a bunch of twats standing around looking intelectual and stroking thier beards in a club, what is needed is dancability..
I think this comes 70/30 from the quality of the record/djs skillz.
But i have to say that sometimes a mix can transform 2 shite tunes into an amazing track that makes you just want to rip your y-fronts off and jump on top of the stack swinging em round your head like a baboon on heat. Unfortunatly this ocurrence is rare, usually it is the tracks themselves that make me do such things.
you ain't from round these parts, are ya booooy? :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimfish