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this post was inspired by reading the post about snobbery against hardcore/gabber/whatever the **** its called...
personally i've never heard any hardcore that i didnt think was boring and too simple.
i would dearly love to be proved wrong, so i'm asking for anyone that has a link to something that they believe is truly great, interesting and will change my mind about this area of music (ie, the really fast stuff) to post it up here and show me the way!!
enlight me, maestro, what are you listening usually?
and what kind of hardcore did you listen up until now?
woa!!! check ANY new hardkore out then m8 :lol: defo not simple...and boring? you'd have to have an attention span much smaller that mine...hardkore is the only style (including all subgenres) that really keeps me interested TBH..Quote:
Originally Posted by log:one
check out the Bastard Sonz Of Rave album by Hellfish and Producer for a start...or any new releases by them,(check out www.phuturerave.com) Hellfish's new album...anything on Headfuk records esp Ely Muff...check the stuff on Planet Mu for really spazzed out styles...all far from simple
(theres loadso stuff out there...but the above obvious ones will wet ur appitite for sure :cool: )
Anything by Sunjammer or Enticer. Check out some elymuff stuff aswell.
Are you still producing trance btw??
I don't think I've posted this one here before. So, here it is.
http://acidgrave.gabber.org/audio/mixes/screwed.mp3
This guy has a point though, you have to look pretty hard through all the shite that gets released to find the good shit that's out there... Most people are only exposed to what is heard at the popular events which i don't truly believe reflects what is actually out there....
IQ hit the nail on the head, Enticer and Sunjammer's stuff is pretty ****ing inspiring stuff... Dolphin and your man Teknoist are the daddy's right now though, their sets make me ****ing weak at the knees and it takes something pretty spectacular to do that these days.
Check out stuff by I:Gor, Mr Kill/Rotator, Hellfish, Doormouse, Ely Muff and Tantrum.. If you sign up to the www.thefaction.co.uk and go on the Oblivion/mp3/hardcore techno boards there's links to loads of stuff....
Is Sunjammer even bothering with hardcore anymore?
Got that bastard sonz of rave on at the moment,and for what it's worth,it's rocking.
heres a clip of my planet mu release... changes quite often n isnt that predictable i dont think.. :)
http://www.errorror.co.uk/ftp/TheTek...losingDown.mp3
hardcore if you know where to look is so shape changing and fresh.. admitaddly (spelling) theres alot of crap out there too but it certainly seems to be picking up in terms of production and detail.
check out these 2 Artist's -
Lasse Steen aka - Skullblower
- Earl Of Reformation
- Goatblower
- Rules Of Anger
- Senical
and also a french guy by the name of PSYKOTROPP
heaps more im sure...like ANY genre you really have to do the diggin to find the good stuff.
get educated. it's not all about silly samples and hoovers.
I am bouncing of the fukking walls to this as we speak!!Quote:
Originally Posted by tocsin
This set is rocking.
^^^ Thanks. :) It's kind of an old one that I did which I never gave around cuz I was unhappy with one of the mixes on it.
Anything by Hellfish, Laurent Ho, Joshua, The Producer or Micropoint...
These guys are some of the best producers i have ever heard and are as good as if not better than any techno, house, trance or drum n bass producer...
rude awakening/dj promo :rambo:
jesus christ teknoist, that link is amazing!!
Same with any genre of music mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Enigma
Log, check out some of the stuff by Ophidian. Being a hard trance man, you'll like some of his riffs. His stuff on Enzyme is superb! Try searching for these two on www.phuturerave.com
Ophidian - A place called yesterday - Enzyme 18X
Ophidian - Butterfly & Hammerhead VIP mixes - Enzyme EXV2
Very true, however the subject at hand is hardcore techno and in recent years it has become more and more difficult to find stuff that is fresh and and exciting to hear (but the same could be applied to any genre of music )...
It all comes back to the commercialised end of the spectrum, ie the more popular end that many people only ever see. It kind of stifles everything underneath it.. However it's the choice of the individual as to what they listen to, but on the other hand you have to ask the question whether they are getting exposure to everything on offer?
You visit boards like USH and UK Scene and when people speak of hardcore techno/gabber it's all D-Boy, Scott Brown, Brisk, Promo etc and Radical Technology, i'm not disrespecting any of them but it's not a true reflection of all that is going on music wise.. Since North finished there has been a serious lack of a solid hardcore techno foundation that regularly brought people and other hardcore techno events together... The 'scene' has become so fragmented, with the Radical Technology nights going more mainstream to fill a gap in the market for more party orientated music. Nights such as Species no longer supply the extreme end of the music, the night that ET and I used to put on (Oblivion) hasn't happened in almost 18 months and nights that do push the boundaries are either one offs or irregular events... More and more labels are becoming mainstream and seem to monopolise the sound, pumping out what sells most which leaves independent artists again struggling for exposure or an outlet for their music.
This leaves the few people that are truly dedicated to the music struggling to get it exposed to a wider audience, hence threads like this.
Instead those that are left pushing the extreme music find themselves venturing into the extreme end of rough electronica, hard dnb and mash up sounds.. Which strangely enough people have taken to quite well... Other people are venturing into Europe and further afield but where does this leave the music/party scene in the UK?
While there are forums like this and the Faction, where like minded and dedicated people can get together and discuss things there will always be a 'scene' of sorts... However, things can't exist purely in the virtual sense i'd like to see something regular returning to the UK on the scale of the old North nights which everyone identified with, that is prepared to push the proper underground sounds giving the music the exposure it deserves.
I miss North & Steam... :cry:
Aye, the good old days.
@Mark.. cheers man :)Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Enigma
@ Dave.. this is exactly why i asked you to pop over to this board mate :)
I believe that North was one of those things that couldnt be pulled off again in that size on a regular basis for a very long time, if ever. Might seem a little defeatest but i dont think it is. North managed to do what it did because it was a sibling of 'Steam', the original hardcore techno event in the North. North carried on from this and 'DRT' and for the simple reason it was THE MOST ESTABLISHED night and one EVERYONE knew. It worked in the same way as if you ask people who their favourite hardcore techno dj was the majority would/will mention Scorpio, Producer, Dolphin, Clarkee, Lofty, HMS... the last 3 havnt played hardcore for years (clarkee plays classics but hasnt bought hardcore since 2000)... Lofty and HMS havnt even poked their noses out from disappearing for years either.
These are the people that were there when it started up here and made that mark at the most crucial time as did North/DRT/Steam. You wont find half as many people giving as much dedication to an event that runs hardcore techno nights as they did North... sad but true fact. 'Ravers' as a whole (and you know this as much as me Dave) are pretty narrow minded and dont like to change much.. im not saying all but the majority.
The thing with hardcore techno sorta merging with electronica/breakcore nights is there is quite a few things pretty much every weekend scattered around the country (some of a pretty big size).. yeah a new flagship hardcore techno night would be awesome every month but aiming at being the size of a busy North event would be a bit foolish.
We're slowly getting to where we want to be i believe.. musicaly and as a scene. We've just gotta have patience and all chip in (as we do really).
hmmm hope this sounds okay! haha
oh yeah i know what i forgot... i meant to say, 'i have been wrong before though' :)
It comes and goes but you guys should consider the glass half full. It's very dificult nowadays to hear any "hardcore" at a party which isn't pretty much dominated by the dutch sound. Personally, I do think the genre has gotten very stale. The new dutch "industrial" sound just feels like more hype to me. It's going to be abused to death until it's just as boring as every other formula. Then, most other artists are either playing off of the frech sound or the Deathchant style stuff. I haven't found much inspiration in any of it lately. It's been practically a year since I completed a new hardcore track and, aside from that one, I've started maybe 3-4. I've recently found the politics in it now too to be just as annoying/dificult if I was playing mainstream pop. Didn't always feel this way but, given the reindeer games involved, I've been writing music that stands to have a larger audience if I have to deal with the same political BS. In hardcore, givn the small number of people into it, it's practically pointless.
thats because your going to 'raves' as opposed to different nights man.. no dutch styles in sight really. Maybe the odd one decent Enzyme... You gotta dig for decent nights aswell as tunes. Which is sort of good be honest. As for the polotics, all the main nights involved with promoting hardcore techno alongside other experimental genres really do work together. Your looking in the wrong places it seems :)Quote:
Originally Posted by tocsin
oh and the same applies for frenchcore at these nights too.. Deathchants heard but not cained like it is by djs at normal raves.
Good to have interesting debate on something i live and breathe!!Quote:
Originally Posted by The Teknoist
Definitely a case of right time, right place with the whole Steam/DRT/North thing.Quote:
I believe that North was one of those things that couldnt be pulled off again in that size on a regular basis for a very long time, if ever. Might seem a little defeatest but i dont think it is. North managed to do what it did because it was a sibling of 'Steam', the original hardcore techno event in the North. North carried on from this and 'DRT' and for the simple reason it was THE MOST ESTABLISHED night and one EVERYONE knew. It worked in the same way as if you ask people who their favourite hardcore techno dj was the majority would/will mention Scorpio, Producer, Dolphin, Clarkee, Lofty, HMS... the last 3 havnt played hardcore for years (clarkee plays classics but hasnt bought hardcore since 2000)... Lofty and HMS havnt even poked their noses out from disappearing for years either.
These are the people that were there when it started up here and made that mark at the most crucial time as did North/DRT/Steam. You wont find half as many people giving as much dedication to an event that runs hardcore techno nights as they did North... sad but true fact. 'Ravers' as a whole (and you know this as much as me Dave) are pretty narrow minded and dont like to change much.. im not saying all but the majority.
I hear what your saying man, the numbers of parties are increasing but you hit the nail on the head when you said they're 'scattered'... It goes back to what I said about things being fragmented now...Quote:
The thing with hardcore techno sorta merging with electronica/breakcore nights is there is quite a few things pretty much every weekend scattered around the country (some of a pretty big size).. yeah a new flagship hardcore techno night would be awesome every month but aiming at being the size of a busy North event would be a bit foolish.
As for a 'flasgship' night a la North style, i guess it's wishful thinking really..
Yeh i reckon so, i think the main thing was for those people to make the move away from the happy scene... Although things are a way off being where we want them to be the important steps, particularly in the last 12 months have been made.. It's been a lot about changing attitudes and having the nerve to move away from something that has been so familiar for so long, even if it was detremental in the end..Quote:
We're slowly getting to where we want to be i believe.. musicaly and as a scene. We've just gotta have patience and all chip in (as we do really).
hmmm hope this sounds okay! haha
As you say as long as people keep chipping in and remain motivated (which has been hard for me at times!) things will continue to get better..
Dude, around here, there are no longer any hardcore nights. The last one that existed was a night myself and a couple other friends were involved with called "Fukkital." That was practically 2 years ago now. We lost the venue after too many childish dick waving matches. So, like I said, you guys should consider the glass half full because, over here in NYC at least, there isn't shit happening. It's dead as dead can be with the exception of one small breakcore party which is thrown in a palce that is more or less a small cafe with a liquor license. And that's on a weeknight.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Teknoist
Nah, man. It really just doesn't exist out here. ADAM Management has monopolized the rave circuit. For private nights/parties, you deal with squabbling from too many DJs that fight with each other over timeslots. Shit, Lowtek was just visiting out here upuntil about a week ago. On the first friday he was here, a friend of mine, the people he was staying with, etc. knew a kid throwing a party at a spot that was hooked up by Satronica, one of the guys Garvin was staying with. The party included locals only. The kid wouldn't let Garvin play. Even when Tense offered up his timeslot, the kid said he would give it to a different local. Mind you, these were pretty much all locals with no records out, no exposure outside of our immediate friends and they had an option for international talent to play for free. It ended up in a bunch of us just hitting a bar instead of going to the party. Nobody is working together. Nobody is sharing. Everyone wants to take without giving. It really sucks the life out of things.Quote:
Which is sort of good be honest. As for the polotics, all the main nights involved with promoting hardcore techno alongside other experimental genres really do work together. Your looking in the wrong places it seems :)
ha mate Lasse Steen is making trance now as DJ Choose, he's a really cool guy - I recently interviewed him for upfront and did a mix for his radio show in Denmark (techno)Quote:
Originally Posted by anode
He mentioned he is doing a live PA of his older stuff one soon :)
Louk
log check out the social parasite stuff
also catscan and third movement (label)
always keeps me on my toes
Louk
ah bugger! i keep forgetting your from the US.. im sorry man, total different kettle of fish but your filling us in with this information. A good read, even though its all negative really. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by tocsin
The glass is most definitely half full. More so since I stopped supporting/attending events that purveyed "pizzacore" and abuse the dutch/deathchant/frenchcore sound.Quote:
Originally Posted by tocsin
All politics and bullshit aside i think there is a small likeminded group of people amongst the hardcore techno fraternity which are switched off from the politics and are concentrating more than ever on doing their own thing. Much of this has come about from disassociating themselves with the happy scene.
You just have to find your niche, somewhere you can express yourself without freely without being slated for doing so.
Yeah man. Not to be a big downer here, but I really can't honestly describe it more than saying things are pretty much dead due to selfish attitudes. It's always been dificult for hardcore around NYC pretty much since around the time Nicky Finger dies. But, that never really affected me so much since, for a time, there was a healthy outlaw scene and one-offs happening where, while what I mentioned was still present to a certain extent, there were a lot more people with healthy attitudes. That provided some musical inspiration for me at least. But, recently, shit, if I try and crank out a hardcore track, it just ends up feeling forced at some point because I'm not feeling any energy. I'd love to think I'd be able to ignore that and rise above it but, it really affects me. I haven't been wiritng mutliple hardcore tracks that I've been happy with since 2002 and what I described is pretty much the reason why. There's just no inspiration to draw from. Take a look at most of the people in NYC that are putting out music now too. They are pretty much catering to the dutch sound. Not the "rave" dutch sound, but most of them are catering to and releasing on Industrial Movement. There simply isn't any NYC scene to inspire any true NY/US sound or labels anymore. Aside from Apocalypse which hasn't released anything in ages, the only other hardcore label I can think of from NYC is Industrial Strength and all of those pressings are being done in Europe and largely sold there. Shit, I'd rather be in Los Angeles at this point.
I've played a couple of gigs in LA with the Mash Up Soundsystem and Delete Data folks.. They're scene seemed to mirror whats going on in the UK in some ways with nights mixing up hardcore techno with mashed up broken beats, basically anything extreme sounding... You got an interesting mix of goths, ravers and general society outcasts which to me is great type of audience......Quote:
Originally Posted by tocsin
Dude, seriously, here's a few essential artists for you:Quote:
Originally Posted by log:one
La Peste
The Enticer
Sunjammer
DJ Freak
I:Gor
On a side note, has anyone heard Andreas's,(sunjammer), latest stuff? **** me :clap:
I also feel that the hardcore side of things is pretty much dead nowadays...Due to too many lacklustre artists, too many shoddy events and promoters/followers that aren't really interested in the music they just want that 'hardcore' tag...Like Dave said there are still a few individuals around who want to start breaking boundaries again, who would like to see the music progress...It is a small minority though, the days of North etc...are long gone, so are the people who cross over all sides of the 'Hardcore' umbrella...Todays Hardcore is significantly different to what it used to be, the events, like you said they're few and far between and the music styles are pretty varied and some of the are so far removed it's untrue...I'd like to think that Hardcore isn't dead but my defeatist attitude these days seems to believe that the scene as it used to be is all over (for now anyways)...To me it can only be for the good, now the people who were detrimental to the scene are gone, maybe we can progress finally...
Out of the ashes the phoenix shall rise again sid lad :cool:
hey Louk :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Louk
yer he's been on the trance tip for some time....
i would love to hear a live pa of his old choonz! will it be recorded?
when he was makin hardcore and hard acid it was some of the best stuff out, still is.
Could well do man...We shall see...Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Enigma
:lol: Poor Garvin. I'll be sure to pass on my condolences to him when i see him.Quote:
Originally Posted by tocsin
Thats a big harsh all the same. :doh:
eh, the LA scene isnt all the great, not many parties happen and if they do its all speedcore/breakcore stuff, i mean that stuff is cool but not to listen to all nightQuote:
Originally Posted by DJ Enigma
speedcore all night, oh yes :rambo: :twisted:
Well if speedcore and breakcore is your thing and listening to it all night is what floats your boat, LA has something to offer... Albeit small but imo it beats the more commercial parties that you get the likes of Omar Santana headlining.. Things may have changed but that's my perception of how it was last year....Quote:
Originally Posted by audioinjection
wow what a response...
havent looked on here since i posted that...
its too late to listen to anything here now, but ill get right on it tomorrow.
btw i just want to make it clear that i wasnt trying to disrespect hardcore in any way shape or form...
when i said that i hadnt heard any i liked, i meant exactly that... i havent heard it. not to say i didnt think it was out there.
and IQ im guessing your "are you still producing trance" was kind of sideways dig (and it was beautiful!) the answer is "um, well... kind of." i havent been to the studio for weeks and im undergoing a major change of taste and direction musically. the only things ive been working on are just some techno bits im messing around with at home.
anyway, thanks everyone, your passion for the music you love is inspiring and im really grateful that you want to show me the way.
err i put the headphones on
teknoist... that track you posted is awesome.
this is me, speechless:
ditto! Teknoist you have some silly skills man :clap:
i may as well do a blatant plug too...
this has bin cut but im still waitin on the test presses..shud be on the shelves within the nxt month..see wotcha fink...
www.kaotek.co.uk
brilliant track mate, well done on getting a release on mu!