Too much top end in clubs as a result of digital setups...

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15-10-2005, 04:03 AM
The Divide

Too much top end in clubs as a result of digital setups...

Im finding this a big problem for me, Suppose it depends where you go and what you listen to but sometimes its a bit too much. good nights don't make my ears hurt when im on the dancefloor...

Just come back from a night in leeds, bit of a mix and mash of artists eg dmx crew, Tim Exhile, Shitmat. Not really a techno night but loved it up till Tim Exhile came on, dont get me wrong I like what he does but I care about my ears enough to back away. As for shitmat, well it was so irritant I left despite liking the hardcore music underneath

The earlier guys rocked it bigtime, had a REALLY good night with a mix of hip hop, breakcore and jacking to hardcore techno. I don't think this was a problem with the rig as it sounding sweet until they came on. It think it could be down to laptops/digital setups? Anyone else find this a problem or is it just me. I do have sensitive hearing in the left side anyways (due to perforated eardrum). For me, it can can make or break a night despite the dj...
15-10-2005, 04:26 AM
S/E

I agree with you. A lot of digital setups I've heard at clubs (guys playing off computers, CDs, etc) have sounded the same way to me. There were lots of highs coming off of the system to the point of sounding piercing and causing discomfort.
15-10-2005, 05:20 AM
Komplex

Some people just don't know how to tune a system (or mix)...
15-10-2005, 06:14 PM
V..

essentially if the rig sounds good with the stuff before but crappy when exile or whoever came on, I think it`s just down to their mix being a bit top heavy.
15-10-2005, 09:44 PM
rejasond

i understand where you're coming from. having a totally digital set-up myself, i've learned that i do need to compensate for really harsh highs... good monitors usually help, but as we all know, they're a luxury. generally i'll just get mates to keep an eye on things on the floor.
15-10-2005, 10:42 PM
ampassasinbirmingham

the digi setups really do lack lots of bottom end. no matter how much u try to compensate, that sub just isnt really there. it lacks real warmth.
15-10-2005, 10:45 PM
rejasond

Quote:

Originally Posted by ampassasinbirmingham

the digi setups really do lack lots of bottom end. no matter how much u try to compensate, that sub just isnt really there. it lacks real warmth.

i dont find that at all... i just find the harsh top end draws away from the bottom... like any type of set-up, it just takes patience and practice to get right.
16-10-2005, 12:30 AM
V..

Quote:

Originally Posted by ampassasinbirmingham

the digi setups really do lack lots of bottom end. no matter how much u try to compensate, that sub just isnt really there. it lacks real warmth.

Yeah, I have no problem getting bags of warmth into the mix, especially with the bass, with digital.

It`s simply a case of knowing how to do it.
16-10-2005, 01:02 AM
dan the acid man

yeah i've heard this a few times, it seems to be a problem with the artists themselves not knowing how to eq their live setups though.
16-10-2005, 02:38 AM
V..

There are slightly different rules when you are playing raw, live on a rig.
16-10-2005, 03:19 AM
DJsmallpaul

Must admit i like plenty of top end, you can't beat a bit of fizzin,wizzin,crashing & bashing cause at then end of the day your ears don't pick up which direction the base is coming from but you certainly know where the mid & top is coming from but i do agree in clubs & venues your gotta be carefull case you don't want it screaming :nono:

It deffo does my head in though when you go to a club & hear muffled dull music :dontevengothere:
16-10-2005, 10:33 AM
eyeswithoutaface

Quote:

Originally Posted by V..

Quote:

Originally Posted by ampassasinbirmingham

the digi setups really do lack lots of bottom end. no matter how much u try to compensate, that sub just isnt really there. it lacks real warmth.

Yeah, I have no problem getting bags of warmth into the mix, especially with the bass, with digital.

It`s simply a case of knowing how to do it.

yeah there are some producers who nail it down all the time on digital setups, and probably some of the producers you really like aswell Billy. its surprising at times
16-10-2005, 04:22 PM
ampassasinbirmingham

i was just using it as a sweeping statement. when surgeon plays, this is never a problem, but i hear some ableton guys and it really lacks the warmth of vinyl.
16-10-2005, 05:43 PM
V..

I think the problem is that a lot of people are so used to producing FOR vinyl, and the limitations you have to get around, they then keep this production ethic when making their live PA`s.
When producing for a live PA there are different rules.
16-10-2005, 06:40 PM
detfella

banana & custard

i think they just mashup snares and those hi end frequencies more than bass frequencies a/ because its easier to hear the rhythm change and b/ becuase they probably want people to stand there with their fingers in their ears!!

it'll teach you for forgetting your ear plugs ;)
16-10-2005, 09:06 PM
The Divide

I put it down to the eq not been tweaked before the laptop guys come on.

Combined with exhile looping live monitor feedback in real time :lol:
16-10-2005, 09:17 PM
detfella

or was it when he sampled shitmat blowing the airhorn :crackup:
16-10-2005, 11:52 PM
The Divide

****in ell i cant believe i forgot about that :crackup:
29-10-2005, 02:17 PM
Basil Rush

Top sounds more exciting in the studio, dance music, and pop music has had a bit of a race for every track to sound more exciting than the last. If the music's hit vinyl it's usually been past a mastering engineer who's adjusted it so his ears won't bleed - all the guys I know who play off CD are playing tracks that have come straight from the producers so the tonal shit hasn't always been sorted out.

Live wise you just need a good engineer front of house who can use the old EQ knobs on the mixing desk to fix it right for the rig ... don't always get one of those though, and some of them in pretty major clubs are tossers with only half a clue which doesn't help at all.
29-10-2005, 04:56 PM
Symmetric

Sound check. Bands have to do it, even in lousy clubs with hacks for sound guys, and live p.a.'s should do it, too. You need to know ahead of time how your mixes are going to translate on the system, and in the room. I did the engineering and programming part of a live p.a. for a while, and I would come in early and to set up my mixes, retune resonances, and in some cases, bass lines, to work with the room. Nothing like rattling drinks off the tables when you find the room's resonant frequency!
29-10-2005, 05:36 PM
Basil Rush

Sound checks rule if you can get 'em ... for some reason (disorganisation probably), it's often not something that happens at live PAs these days...
29-10-2005, 07:28 PM
audioinjection

well having too much top end probably is the fault of the dj or the mix from the tracks right? i assume most big rigs don't eq their set up, i dont know too much about huge rigs, but i doubt they eq the mains
29-10-2005, 10:26 PM
Symmetric

The big systems should be eq'd. Although around here it seems when a rig is used for an electronic event, it's often not sent with one of the company's top engineers, so it's not always eq'd right, if at all. But even if a rig is set up properly, if the event is primarily vinyl, when someone switches to cd's or laptops there is a noticeable sonic difference between mediums.
Regarding soundchecks, even if you don't have one scheduled I've found that if you can get to the venue when sound is being set up, most of the time the audio engineer is happy to sound check you, and if he's good it gives him (or her!) a chance to rinse out the system. If you're playing a club on a fixed system you usually don't get that luxury though.